Custom 9mm cylinder job?


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horsemen61
January 7, 2013, 03:59 PM
So I have a lcr and was wondering if yall know anybody who would convert a 357 cylinder to 9mm for me and an idea on price thanks guys.

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rcmodel
January 7, 2013, 04:03 PM
This is the goto company.

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

Just so you know, they say this about that:
**In regard to the caliber conversions, I do not recommend shooting .38/.357 case's in the cylinder once this conversion is done. The cases will fire form to the 9x23 case dimensions and they will most likely stick in the cylinder.

rc

horsemen61
January 7, 2013, 04:08 PM
Thank you RC I plan on buying a new cylinder for this job and I have heard they are the go to guys but sadly I think they are not taking any work now :(.

beag_nut
January 7, 2013, 04:18 PM
Why do so many want to do this??? If the 9mm is cheaper (if that's the reason), just learn (easy enough) to handload. For one thing, besides the cost, the bore diameters are different.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 04:33 PM
Why do so many want to do this??? If the 9mm is cheaper (if that's the reason), just learn (easy enough) to handload. For one thing, besides the cost, the bore diameters are different.

The bore diameters for both are "supposed" to be different but in the real world they're not.

I have 357 magnums with .355 to .358 bores and 9mm's from .355 to .357

For all intents and purposes 9mm and .357 bores are the same depending on how the individual bore slugs.

An outstanding reason for the conversion is that from a snub nosed revolver 9mm gets you 95% of the performance of 357 but with significantly reduced blast and recoil that's much closer to 38 levels.

9mm is actually a better match for the snub nosed revolver than either 357 or 38


I handload and even then 9mm is far cheaper as 9mm brass is FREE. Heck when I take my 905 to the range I ALWAYS come home with 2x the brass I left with.



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rcmodel
January 7, 2013, 04:40 PM
Ruger will not sell you a new cylinder for the LCR anyway, and they are too new for there to be any on the gun parts sites.

So it's a moot point.

rc

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 04:41 PM
I've been studying this AND IF Taurus 905 stellar clips will fit over the ejector any decent gunsmith should be able to convert a cylinder fairly cheaply.

The reason is Taurus stellar clips are different than ruger/Smith clips. They're thin enough that they give a 9mm proper headspace in the same recoil shield cylinder gap as a 38/357 revolver. This is key because the rear of the cylinder doesn't require a cut out relief for the clips.




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WC145
January 7, 2013, 09:36 PM
Too bad stellar clips suck, too flimsy. Also, Pinnacle and TK Customs both cut the cylinder faces to use 940 style moonclips, don't know anyone else doing these caliber "conversions" off the top of my head.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 09:55 PM
Too bad stellar clips suck, too flimsy. Also, Pinnacle and TK Customs both cut the cylinder faces to use 940 style moonclips, don't know anyone else doing these caliber "conversions" off the top of my head.

They are indeed too flimsy to load up a few and toss in a jeans pocket.

But in the gun and on ejection they work just as well as 940 clips.

If this was the deciding factor for being able to get the conversion performed or not I'd go with the stellar clip without reservations.

When I carred my 905 I had regular 9mm in the cylinder and my reload was rimmed 9mm made from 38s&w (not special) on a speed strip. I did this because a loaded clip was just too bulky to go in a pants pocket very well. This can only be done in an un cut ejector




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Carne Frio
January 8, 2013, 04:00 PM
TK Custom also makes very high quality
moon clips. Way better than the stellar
clips. They have them in stainless, too.

horsemen61
January 10, 2013, 01:28 PM
Well the reason I want to do it is because I reload 9mm and it is something different.

WC145
January 10, 2013, 03:40 PM
Go for it. I have a custom 9mm S&W 360J that was done by Pinnacle a few years ago, it has worked out very well for me.

Glock 124g
January 27, 2013, 05:36 PM
I have been looking for a 9mm revolver for quite some time. The prices of used S&W 940 are very high, and the qualities of the 905 Taurus and their triggers have been quite variable.

I spoke to with Rich at rschaefer@customcarryconcepts.com, about his Charter Arms 9mm Pit Bull. He is working some new holster for it and said it was comforabele, accurate, shot well, ejected casses well but it was significantly larger than a J Frame or LCR, and the last I heard it was back at Charter Arms for Warranty Service.

I also spoke with Tom at TK Customs. The reviews of his moon clip and 9mm conversions have all been very positive. Tom's conversions of LCR .357 will chamber 9X21 through 9X23 auto loading cartridges. They head space and eject via moon clips.

Tom told me that his customers have been fine with the accuracy of his conversions but they are not as accurate as factory cylinder in LCR, S&W 940 or a well-made Taurus 905 or a well-made Charter Arms Pit Bull at longer ranges.

We spoke for a while longer and Tom told me his customers have been satisfied with the accuracy at shorter self-defense ranges but if I wanted to have the same or improved accuracy for longer distances, I would not be satisfied with a converstion.

I had planed on inproving the sights on my LCR and while I understand that the practicle accuracy for self defencse on a conversion was accurate enough. But I need good sights on a gun and need to be able to qualify single hanged both with my dominate or supprot hand to carry the LCR as a BUG. I also decided that I did not want to spend several hunderd dollars to convert an LCR and end up with a less accuarate revolver with lower resalle value.

I am still very interested in a 9mm revolver as a BUG for my Glock 19. If Ruger would produce 9mm LCRs or if 9mm cylindes and ratchets for .357 LCR it would be a perfect solution.

The ~.002 theoretical difference in barrel bore between 9mm and .357 in a 2 inch barrel does not appear to be a significant issue. SAAMI specs for 9mm and 38spl/.357 mag are .355 vs.357.

It is interesting to note that Speer utilized .355 Gold Dot projectiles in their 38spl +P 135g JHP, .357 135g JHP and 9mm +P 124g JHP ammunition.

Many barrel manufactures utilize 38 caliber barrels interchangeably for 9mm and 38spl/.357 pistols/revolvers.

Some of the higher end rifle barrels distinguish between .355 and .357 barrels.


What is significant in a revolver is proper chamber and throat diameter.

Throat diameter for jacketed projectiles should be ~.001" over projectile diameter in order to minimize propellant gas blow by and keep the projectile stable and parallel to the axis of the bore. The forcing cone is unable to correct projectile yaw due to oversized chambers and or throats.

The reason that accuracy suffers in this type of conversion is not the quality of the work. It is a simple matter that the .38/.357 chamber except for a small segment at the cartridge base is significantly larger in diameter and length than a 9mm chamber.

Machining the cylinder to accept moon clips and reaming out enough material to allow a 9mm case leaves the .355 projectile unsupported in a long oversized free bore.

This results in a ~.25"X~.65 oversized initial throat and a final oversized ~.20 X ~ .10 throat which allow propellant gases to blow by the projectile, resulting in loss of velocity and an unstable yawed projectile at the forcing cone.

SAAMI chamber specification for 9X21mm Luger are ~.93" in length, 9X23 Winchester ~.98” in length and ~.354" in diameter at the projectile. The chamber leads directly into a ~.355 barrel; there is no “throat” as is found in revolver cylinders.

A 38spl/.357 magnum revolver chamber is ~1.3/1.4" in length and ~.38/.38" in diameter. The cylinder throat is ~358/~358" diameter surrounding the projectile and passes down a long throat, through the forcing cone and enters a ~.357/~.357" barrel.

S&W 940 cylinders that were cut with properly sized throats provide velocity numbers close to 3.5"t or 4" 9mm Glock. Essentially the long cylinder throats act as smooth bore barrels before projectile reached the barrel.

Links to SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings for 9mm Luger, 38spl and .357 magnum are below:

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/9mm%20Luger%20-%209mm%20Luger%20+P.pdf
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/38%20Special_38%20Special%20+P.pdf
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/357%20Magnum.pdf
Ruger LCR Cylinders are machined and chambered via CNC mills. The finished cylinders are optically computer matched to individual ratchets eliminating the need for costly hand fitting. This is why LCR’s must be sent back to the factory to have a new cylinder and or ratchet fitted.

Machining new cylinders and ratchets is a simple job with a multi axis CNC mills with the proper tooling. The difficult part is having the CNC programing written.

If anyone on the forum can write or know someone who can write the CAD CNC programing then many CNC shops such as Florida Arms Manufacturing Company (http://www.floridaarms.com/about.php) can do a short run of 50 units cut for moon clips that correctly head space off the cartridge mouth and oversized ratchets to be hand fitted to LCRs.

Once the CAD/CNC program is done then this would be a viable project.

I would be first in line to buy are few 9mm conversions cylinders and oversized ratchets for LCR .357s.

I have no doubt that the remaining 47 would be snapped up by others on this forum if the costs were not too high.

Thank you all for your attention and please let me know what your thoughts.

WC145
January 27, 2013, 06:50 PM
My Pinnacle built 9mm S&W 360J is plenty accurate, I have no trouble qualifying with it on our duty gun course shooting from 3 to 25 yds. It's not a bullseye gun and I don't shoot it for groups, but I can make head shots at 15yds and put 5 CM at 25yds easy.

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