PSA- Please please if you want to appear knowledgeable ...


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R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 06:52 PM
About guns do not use the term "9mil" in reference to 9mm or 9x19mm.

There is a measurement where the units are expression in mils nine of wich = .oo9" wich strikes me as a pretty ineffective handgun caliber if you ask me.

IMO this ranks above the newbie gun guy calling a magazine a clip (I think is 100% vald BTW) because I see very knowledgeable folks doing this many times on TV no less.




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jmr40
January 7, 2013, 07:00 PM
expression in mils nine of wich = .oo9"

That's amost as bad as using oo9" instead of 009"

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 07:04 PM
That's amost as bad as using oo9" instead of 009"

What's the matter you don't like my lower case zero's that I used for emphasis ;-)






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BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 07:10 PM
How about 9x18, 9x21, or 9x23? And no, magazines are not ''clips'', ask anyone with an SKS. Those that don't know the difference probably shouldn't be messing around with things they don't understand, anyway.

willypete
January 7, 2013, 07:14 PM
I was a machinist's mate in the Navy and am familiar with "mils," but when I hear "mil," I'm automatically going to start thinking metric. I typically call 9x19 "Luger," "Parabellum," or "9 mike mike" but I'm just letting you know that a lot of us out there will automatically assume metric system, not standard, even if we're familiar with SAE units.

Kinda like those people who get bent out of shape when others call magazines "clips," assuming someone is ignorant or dumb because they're referring to millimeters when they say "mil" is just going to make you appear anal-retentive.

willypete
January 7, 2013, 07:15 PM
Oh internets, you so slow today. Double post.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 07:38 PM
And no, magazines are not ''clips'', ask anyone with an SKS. Those that don't know the difference probably shouldn't be messing around with things they don't understand, anyway.

Magazines are clips. Manufacturers seem to agree and since they make em they are whatever they wish to call em.

I love using this pic

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/2012-12-17112928-1.jpg






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matrem
January 7, 2013, 07:42 PM
About guns do not use the term "9mil"

Unless you're going to turn it sideways and "sight" down the slide, of course.

Those that don't know the difference probably shouldn't be messing around with things they don't understand, anyway.


Have to disagree with that. I shoot with quite a few folks that call magazines "clips", and most of them are good shooters, very safety conscience, and.. well... just dang good folks.

3twelves
January 7, 2013, 07:44 PM
9 mickey mouse



oh and

http://www.knewance.com/storage/post-images/clip_magazine.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1279244330073

Fishslayer
January 7, 2013, 07:44 PM
I simply refer to 9mm as "The wife's gun.":evil:

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 07:45 PM
I wonder if the Germans who invented the stripper clip use different words for clips and magazines?




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 07:48 PM
Gets mad because people say "nine mil" to mean nine millimeter.

Says magazines are clips.

lolwhat?

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 07:49 PM
it's like ''duck tape''. Folks who work with it, in air conditioning know that it's duct tape, but because of the overwhelming numbers of the ignorant calling it ''duck tape'', it has fallen into accepted usage.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 07:50 PM
Gets mad because people say "nine mil" to mean nine millimeter.

Says magazines are clips.

lolwhat?

Argue with savage or Remington on the clip magazine thing.

I doubt you'll ever see glock or s&w putting 9mil on their packaging anytime soon.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/_T2eC16hHJHQE9nzEzv2CBQGTe6RfY_60_35.jpg




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BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 07:52 PM
well, 3twelves ''gets it''. See post #9.

Warp
January 7, 2013, 07:55 PM
Firearm manufacturers say to never use reloads in their guns.

That means we're all doing it wrong?

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 07:56 PM
Firearm manufacturers say to never use reloads in their guns.

That means we're all doing it wrong?

And pistol makers tell you to never carry a loaded handgun around. Your point is?




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Apachedriver
January 7, 2013, 08:00 PM
Actually, if you want to appear knowledgeable about anything, just know the company you're in so you can speak their lingo as opposed to sounding anal-retentive.

Can I say that word - anal?? If not, apologies are in order.

Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:01 PM
And pistol makers tell you to never carry a loaded handgun around. Your point is?


Are those manufacturers correct or incorrect?

bri
January 7, 2013, 08:03 PM
First and foremost, I'd make sure to use proper grammar, punctuation and spelling before you post a PSA.

I'll admit, the clip/mag thing bugs me sometimes.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:07 PM
Are those manufacturers correct or incorrect?

Neither

But they can call their products whatever they wish as well as suggest how to use one. We can choose to ignore them or not but like it or not that doesn't make the terminology they use invalid.




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:08 PM
Neither

But they can call their products whatever they wish as well as suggest how to use one. We can choose to ignore them or not but like it or not that doesn't make the terminology they use invalid.




Yup. We sure can.

And when they are incorrect, that is what the majority of us do.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:11 PM
Yup. We sure can.

And when they are incorrect, that is what the majority of us do.

Are you a gun owner?






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Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:12 PM
Are you a gun owner?



Of course not.

I do have some bullets though.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:14 PM
Of course not.

So you never ever reference anything on this forum that's not an artillery piece or crew served weapon as a gun?




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:19 PM
So you never ever reference anything on this forum that's not an artillery piece or crew served weapon as a gun?


Que?

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 08:20 PM
The problem with allowing magazines to be called ''clips'', is that it's the same kind of thinking that allows the dumbed down masses to refer to semi-automatic firearms as ''assault rifles''.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:22 PM
Que?

Rifles, pistols, shotguns and revolvers ARE NOT guns.

THIS is a gun.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/M110-203mm.jpg

You see you me nor anyone else here is being especially correct in our terminology.




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:24 PM
Rifles, pistols, shotguns and revolvers ARE NOT guns.

THIS is a gun.

[IMG]http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/M110-203mm.jpg[IMG]

You see you me nor anyone else here is being especially correct in our terminology.




Maybe you should start another thread where you complain about people referring to rifles, pistols, shotguns, and revolvers as guns?

I'm sure that, just like this thread, it would make THR a better place.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:25 PM
Why? If we're going to be consistent about calling things by the proper terms then lets get REALLY correct.


But even then mils still do not = millimeters. The word millimeter has an abbreviation and that abbreviation is MM. Unlike with guns,clips,magazines where its an argument about the English language millimeters and mils is MATH and as such there's only one correct and everything else is WRONG




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rugerdude
January 7, 2013, 08:28 PM
When I was in the Marines (I was a foreign weapons instructor for my unit among other things) I commonly referred to firearms as "gats" or "gat pieces," and the Beretta M9/M9A1 was almost always referred to as the "nine-mil."

I think the key here is context. If I'm with my fellow Marines, I like to sarcastically use slang because it's out of place among armed professionals and therefore amusing to me.

The thing that bothers me more than anything isn't the magazines/clips deal (although that does grate on my ears), it's the pronunciation of acronyms as words. Example: UMP is and acronym for "Universal Machine Pistol" and not a word that you say. Same thing with AUG, so please stop calling it the "Awg."

I'm also really hypocritical on that because I make exception for CETME when pronounced "set-me" because that's an awfully long name otherwise, and SPAS-12, and FN-MAG58. I'll admit that there's really no way for anybody to be correct in my eyes on this unless they happen to share my exact like/dislike for the way things sound when pronounced as words vice acronyms.

Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:30 PM
Why? If we're going to be consistent about calling things by the proper terms then lets get REALLY correct.


But even then mils still do not = millimeters. The word millimeter has an abbreviation and that abbreviation is MM



The problem here is that you (very loudly) seem to want it both ways.

You want to get on people for abbreviating millimeter to mil, okay...

But then you call magazines clips.

Yeah...that isn't trolling or anything. Not at all. lol

vamo
January 7, 2013, 08:30 PM
To OP, as someone who works with metric units all day, I and everyone In my field will abbreviate milliliters and millimeters to mil. It becomes very awkward and unnecessary to say millimeter and milliliter every single time when a common conversation references the units multiple times at my job. Everyone knows what 9 mil is short for when discussing guns I have no problem with people say nine mil when they mean 9 millimeter.

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 08:31 PM
Shotguns are refered to as guns.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:32 PM
Likes the above post.


As long as we don't do like the English and decide the letter Z actually has a spelling we're doing OK




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 08:33 PM
According to the spelling b I saw on ESPN the letter H has a spelling

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:35 PM
According to the spelling b I saw on ESPN the letter H has a spelling

Spelling bee ;-)

When you think about it the English language is so fundamentally retarded you know that ESL folks laugh at these discussions.





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Fire_Moose
January 7, 2013, 08:41 PM
How has this gotten 40 replies?

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:42 PM
How has this gotten 40 replies?

It is a Monday evening




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BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 08:45 PM
yep. happy monday.

jerkface11
January 7, 2013, 08:46 PM
My new years resolution is to only measure things in cubits.

Gtscotty
January 7, 2013, 08:47 PM
I can't believe that in a post complaining about the shortening of "9 millimeter" to "9 mil", you misspelled "which"..... twice.... in the same line.... they were almost touching.

Now if you'll excuse me from this inane exercise in semantics, I have some 9 mil clips to organize, and a C Zed gun to clean.

3twelves
January 7, 2013, 08:52 PM
Rifles, pistols, shotguns and revolvers ARE NOT guns.

THIS is a gun.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/M110-203mm.jpg

You see you me nor anyone else here is being especially correct in our terminology.




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Wrong again, that is a cannon.

youngda9
January 7, 2013, 08:52 PM
Elitists....argh.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 08:53 PM
Wrong again, that is a cannon.



No its a gun served by a gun crew of wich two or more constitutes a battery


http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/artillery

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mberoose
January 7, 2013, 08:56 PM
Now is not the time to be a cranky old codger and get wrapped up in semantics with someone that doesn't know any better. I think it's fair to say that there's greater issues at hand than CNN calling a magazine a clip, for example.

No, it doesn't make them less of a person/entity because they're not heavily into the hobby/culture, and are bought into the fraud that popular culture has fed them for decades. They simply don't know any better. Maybe the media does, but that's a lost cause anyways, let's focus on the individual. Yes, there may be a time to educate them, but now is not that time.

Frigs sakes man, you correct someone that says "9mil" or "clip" or whatever, your door for making any other case is automatically closed.

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 09:00 PM
Wrong. When you allow sloppy semantics you end up with terms such as ''assault rifle'' being applied to semi-automatic firearms. People that don't know any better, are only ill informed, not stupid, and they need only to be educated, to be better informed.

mberoose
January 7, 2013, 09:02 PM
Wrong. When you allow sloppy semantics you end up with terms such as ''assault rifle'' being applied to semi-automatic firearms.

Yeah, and how's that worked out for decades now.

There are greater issues at hand.

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 09:21 PM
not very well, and that includes the ''greater issues at hand''. When you allow people to lump semi-autos with machine guns you end up with ''assault rifle'' bans.

holdencm9
January 7, 2013, 09:38 PM
The point of words is to communicate an idea. "Assault" anything is just used to convey fear, evil, intimidation, etc. I definitely agree we need to counter that as much as possible, and we should try to use proper terms amongst ourselves as well, but sometimes you can let it slide! For instance:

If someone asks, "Where can I get a clip for my Glock?" it gets the point across.

If someone asks, "What's the best 9mil pistol on the market?" it gets the point across. It is a loaded question, but there it is.

Neither phrase makes you sound smart, and if people want to be taken more seriously, they can learn the proper terms. Most people just don't care that much.

I know about mils, to me that is a measurement for bags (plastic thickness) and sheet metal (although I use gage in sheet metal, I could convert between the two). I can't imagine it causing confusion on a gun forum. Now the confusion between 9x19, 9x18, 9x17 is another matter entirely, although I think unless it is specified, it is commonly accepted that 9mm means 9mm Luger/Parabellum/9x19mm.

Personally, I think saying "nine-mil" makes more sense than writing it, since "9mm" is easier and shorter to type than "9mil" but that's beside the point.

BTW, the fact you used "PSA" in a gun forum was more confusing to me than anyone ever using "mil" instead of "mm" because I am so conditioned to think of Palmetto State Armory whenever I see it now. :)

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 09:48 PM
not very well, and that includes the ''greater issues at hand''. When you allow people to lump semi-autos with machine guns you end up with ''assault rifle'' bans.

You do understand that to the anti anything that shoots a bullet out of a barrel is an assault rifle. If we used some acronym for FA intermediate cartridge carbines FAICC they'd just come up with their own term that best serves their needs.

Hell blame Hitler if you're gonna blame anyone for the misuse of the catchy term.

The Russians were using the word Avtomat long before WWII to describe this type rifle.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedorov_Avtomat




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Warp
January 7, 2013, 09:58 PM
Exactly. I though this was about Palmetto State Armory when I clicked on the thread

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 10:23 PM
I had a PSA test for my prostate, but it's not the same thing. Words have meaning, and that gives them power.

holdencm9
January 7, 2013, 10:29 PM
I had a PSA test for my prostate, but it's not the same thing. Words have meaning, and that gives them power.

But since you provided context, no one was confused. Words need context, which gives them meaning, to give them power. :rolleyes:

Sharps-shooter
January 7, 2013, 10:35 PM
Context, as Apache said a long ways back. If you're out hunting grouse on the moors and someone is talking about their gun, it's safe to assume they don't mean a self-propelled howitzer. Similarly, if some old document references th clip for a Kalashnikov rifle, you can be pretty sure that they are referring to what most people nowadays call a magazine. And if someone says 9 mil to reference the size of a pistol, it isn't technically accurate, but you know what they mean. Probably.

And while we are at it, revolvers are a kind of pistol. Except the ones that are rifles or grenade launchers or cannon(s!)

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 10:37 PM
''But since you provided context, no one was confused. Words need context, which gives them meaning, to give them power...''

exactly. Listen, you kids can call magazines clips all day if you want to, it only hurts you. When you allow the antis to ''blur'' the meaning and definitions of words, you also allow them to make them mean anything they want them to. I'm not going to be around long enough to care, but you guys are going to have to live in that world.

R.W.Dale
January 7, 2013, 10:46 PM
''But since you provided context, no one was confused. Words need context, which gives them meaning, to give them power...''

exactly. Listen, you kids can call magazines clips all day if you want to, it only hurts you. When you allow the antis to ''blur'' the meaning and definitions of words, you also allow them to make them mean anything they want them to. I'm not going to be around long enough to care, but you guys are going to have to live in that world.

So the entire gun control push we see today can be laid squarely at the feet of folks using the word clip in lieu of magazine ...


Mmmmmkay

Question : do/did gun owners refer to Winchester black talon loads as cop killer bullets. Who coined that term? Us or the anti's.




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holdencm9
January 7, 2013, 10:54 PM
There's a difference between using a term that is intentionally loaded and meant to incite an emotional response in the listener ("assault rifle") versus using terms that are technically incorrect but as a matter of practice, interchangeable (clip vs mag, mil vs mm, gun vs small arms, whatever).

Also, don't ever pull the "you kids" routine. As long as we are talking about words and their meaning and effective communication, we may as well point out that writing something like that only serves to disrespect the individuals with whom you are engaging in conversation, as well as make you come off as an old curmudgeon. And for the record I am not implying that you are, I am just saying your words may lead your audience to infer such things.

slidemuzik
January 7, 2013, 10:57 PM
Wow. It appears that several people musta missed their naps in day care today.

"Lighten up Francis"

BHP FAN
January 7, 2013, 11:11 PM
''don't ever''...really? I was useing satire to [I thought] get a point across, but I'm guessing it didn't work. I'm 54.

Atbat82
January 7, 2013, 11:21 PM
How has this gotten 40 replies?

Because the BCS is a blowout...


Sent from my iPhone

Fire_Moose
January 8, 2013, 06:13 AM
Quick question, what's the "ar" stand for in ar-15?

plunge
January 8, 2013, 06:44 AM
Armalite Rifle

Gtscotty
January 8, 2013, 06:47 AM
ArmaLite - Model 15

CajunBass
January 8, 2013, 07:11 AM
That's all it takes to get your panties in a wad?

Please, switch to decaff.

evan price
January 8, 2013, 07:18 AM
Quick question, what's the "ar" stand for in ar-15?

Sure as hell doesn't stand for Fusil Automatique Léger, I can tell you that.


If we're going to pick nits, why not stop calling metallic centerfire ammunition "Bullets"?

The correct term is "Cartridges". The bullet is the piece that comes out of the barrel.

In the meantime, I'm going to mack my jammy nine and let the clips and bullets fly, yo.

olderguns
January 8, 2013, 07:50 AM
:evil:This has been a fun thread, so I'll add to it, I try not to get bentout of shape because of terminology people use most just go by what they see on TV anyways, but if someones really anal about words I like to playwith them, me and my brother shoot with some ex Leo,s sometimes and because he knows how much it bothers them my brother always says clips when talking about his glock mags,( I know it's mean) and when someone talks about nine millimeter I just say I don't know much about them I only carry real calibers that can actually do damage..

SDC
January 8, 2013, 07:58 AM
"I wonder if the Germans who invented the stripper clip use different words for clips and magazines?"

Clip = "ladestreifen" (loading strips), magazine = "magazin"

rondog
January 8, 2013, 08:01 AM
I just prefer to use "nine" and "gat", yo. Know'nI'msayin"?

JohnBT
January 8, 2013, 09:03 AM
http://img3.targetimg3.com/wcsstore/TargetSAS/img/p/13/45/13451806_90x90.jpg

I'll call it Duck tape if I want to. It is.

mtrmn
January 8, 2013, 02:26 PM
And I actually spent time in this near-apocalyptic age reading this thread. It's like watching a train wreck......just couldn't tear myself away from the screen. NOW I've even posted in the same thread.:eek:

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 02:27 PM
You use it on ducks, do you?

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 02:32 PM
people can call duct tape duck tape if they want to, and cartridges ''bullets'', and yes, even magazines ''clips'', and on further reflection, in this land of free speech, I guess I'm glad you can, and do. It gives the rest of us a quick reference point as to the depth of your knowledge.

sidheshooter
January 8, 2013, 02:47 PM
Re: "Magazines" vs. "Clips"

Who cares? Allow me to introduce you to what real men use instead:


http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/speed-loader-2.jpg



:neener:



I've heard enough members of our special forces community use the phrase "9mil" to generically refer to fluffy, the pet Beretta or Sig or Glock, to have picked up the slang myself.

Call me a philistine. Just don't refer to your 9mm as a ".354"...

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 03:22 PM
I prefer the full moon clips myself, for my 1917 S&W, but I take your meaning. I let this whole thing bother me, but it's just ''online'' thought, stream of conciousness stuff. I think it's a free country. Call your stuff whatever you want.

3twelves
January 8, 2013, 03:26 PM
Not sure why this thread is still open....

CraigC
January 8, 2013, 04:08 PM
The "greater issue at hand" that really baffles me is how much resistance you see when it is suggested that someone is doing something wrong. Whether it's spelling or terminology, the correction of errors should be embraced. The fact that it only serves to start an argument with name-calling is very indicative of a larger problem.

I'd rather be called elitist, spelling Nazi, anal-retentive, etc., etc., ad nauseum than ignorant or stupid. Not knowing any better makes you ignorant. Refusing to change ignorant behavior makes you stupid. You can easily fix ignorant but stupidity is terminal. I don't want to be either.

atblis
January 8, 2013, 04:58 PM
Not sure why this thread is still open....
Not sure why this thread was ever created. Good thing I call it "9millie" so people like the OP don't get confused.

The "greater issue at hand" that really baffles me is how much resistance you see when it is suggested that someone is doing something wrong. Whether it's spelling or terminology, the correction of errors should be embraced. The fact that it only serves to start an argument with name-calling is very indicative of a larger problem.
Colloquialisms. It's all part of the human experience. Enjoy.

d2wing
January 8, 2013, 07:18 PM
In most cases, people know if you refer to a magazine as a clip, they mean the same thing.
It is like saying a revolver is not a pistol. Some on here are beyond anal retentive to the point of willful ignorance.

d2wing
January 8, 2013, 07:20 PM
Context, as Apache said a long ways back. If you're out hunting grouse on the moors and someone is talking about their gun, it's safe to assume they don't mean a self-propelled howitzer. Similarly, if some old document references th clip for a Kalashnikov rifle, you can be pretty sure that they are referring to what most people nowadays call a magazine. And if someone says 9 mil to reference the size of a pistol, it isn't technically accurate, but you know what they mean. Probably.

And while we are at it, revolvers are a kind of pistol. Except the ones that are rifles or grenade launchers or cannon(s!)
Exactly.

d2wing
January 8, 2013, 07:28 PM
Anyone hear of common usage? If people commonly use terms or slang referring to something and you understand it, it is not wrong so you anal types should be in a lonely small group to bitch to each other because no one else cares.

CraigC
January 8, 2013, 07:41 PM
Welcome to 2013, where "you know what I mean" is good enough for most. :rolleyes:

Warp
January 8, 2013, 07:46 PM
Anyone hear of common usage? If people commonly use terms or slang referring to something and you understand it, it is not wrong so you anal types should be in a lonely small group to bitch to each other because no one else cares.

That doesn't make the term correct, but it does make it so that most people should let it go most of the time.

One of my peeves is: Don't let that spider bite you, it's poisonous.

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 07:47 PM
You know, I'm trying to adopt an ''I don't care'' additude myself, but they are not...not the same thing. Having owned a Mauser Bolo pistol and an SKS I know the difference. I have heard of common usage, it's why no nothings call duct tape duck tape. At this point I realise I'm wasting my breath, but if you go back to post #9, you might learn something. Or, then again, maybe [probably] not.

Tinpig
January 8, 2013, 08:02 PM
Even "Sgt Grit" the Marine Specialties Store run by a Marine for Marines lists this cigarette lighter as a "Rifle Clip."

http://www.grunt.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/6/86-249.jpg

Doesn't bother me... both my uncles were WW II Marines (Iwo Jima, Saipan, Peleliu, and Okinawa) and they used the term "clip" freely to describe what the purists say can only be a magazine.

I'd like to be there when the terminology police try to correct either of them. ;)

Tinpig

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 08:07 PM
again, see #9. Or not. Your cigarette lighter is unconvincing.

R.W.Dale
January 8, 2013, 08:08 PM
again, see #9. Or not.

How about post 7 and 14?

Actual manufacturer product packaging not a 3 min Photoshop meme?

See 7 and 14 ... or not

Here I'll repost the pics in case you missed them.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/_T2eC16hHJHQE9nzEzv2CBQGTe6RfY_60_35.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/2012-12-17112928-1.jpg



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IMTHDUKE
January 8, 2013, 08:17 PM
I ran through a whole Clip with this Gun and its not a 9mil




http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/25355.jpg

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 08:20 PM
thanks, R.W..... I remember when they started doing that. it's STILL wrong. someone linked to the picture of a duck on some duct tape too, and again, it's just proof of a general ''dumbing down'', due to accepting common usage as a definition. on Disney's film ''Bambi'', Bambi calls the skunk a ''flower'', but that doesn't make it one.

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 08:23 PM
I will say it's been two days of rainey day fun though, and agree to disagree, after haveing pretty much hijacking your post.

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 08:25 PM
Holy crud Duke! Are those skis?!

matrem
January 8, 2013, 08:32 PM
I ran through a whole Clip with this Gun and its not a 9mil

You were the one in that picture?
Wow!

I saw that picture quite a while back.
Glad I finally got to "talk" to that guy.

ChCx2744
January 8, 2013, 10:24 PM
Here's how I see it: For us who understand guns, when we hear "nine mil" or "clip" we know what it means. It's as simple as that. They aren't talking about your gran mammy, your kids, your looks or your income so you shouldn't be offended or trivial about such things.

I invite a cute girl to the range. The following occurs:

Her: "Oh...The clip in the nine mil is empty...Can you fill it back up for me...?"

Me: "Okay"

Her: "Yay!" :)

As opposed to:

Girl: "Oh...The clip in the 9 mil is empty...Can you fill it back up for me...?"

Dude: "Do not use the term '9mil' in reference to 9mm or 9x19mm. There is a measurement where the units are expression in mils nine of wich = .oo9 wich strikes me as a pretty ineffective handgun caliber if you ask me. IMO this ranks above the newbie calling a magazine a clip (I think is 100% vald BTW) because I see very knowledgeable folks doing this many times on TV no less."

Girl: "Um...Right" :rolleyes:

Am I doin it rite?

Warp
January 8, 2013, 10:53 PM
Here's how I see it: For us who understand guns, when we hear "nine mil" or "clip" we know what it means. It's as simple as that. They aren't talking about your gran mammy, your kids, your looks or your income so you shouldn't be offended or trivial about such things.

I invite a cute girl to the range. The following occurs:

Her: "Oh...The clip in the nine mil is empty...Can you fill it back up for me...?"

Me: "Okay"

Her: "Yay!" :)

As opposed to:

Girl: "Oh...The clip in the 9 mil is empty...Can you fill it back up for me...?"

Dude: "Do not use the term '9mil' in reference to 9mm or 9x19mm. There is a measurement where the units are expression in mils nine of wich = .oo9 wich strikes me as a pretty ineffective handgun caliber if you ask me. IMO this ranks above the newbie calling a magazine a clip (I think is 100% vald BTW) because I see very knowledgeable folks doing this many times on TV no less."

Girl: "Um...Right" :rolleyes:

Am I doin it rite?

I would say: Yes, I can fill your magazine up with rounds of ammo

If you cannot educate people without being a butt about it then, no, you shouldn't try to educate them

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 10:54 PM
Well, we're not all here to impress girls. I prefer the correct terms, but you can use whatever terms you like, to impress whoever you like.

velojym
January 8, 2013, 10:59 PM
When the lady in accounting comes to me demanding that I replace the batteries in her USB mouse, I know what she's talking about. Still doesn't make her look smart.
I'll correct a friend when he calls a magazine a clip, but I generally don't storm around bugging everyone about it.
Mostly it's an image thing. These days, it's ignorant reporters and/or gangsta thugs who use "clip" and generally knowledgeable people use "magazine".
Sure, there are exceptions, including company marketing folks who will have the word "clip" emblazoned on packaging, but I'll personally hang on to the standard I've accepted.
Sure, I think it was Mark Twain who defended "creative spelling", but that won't help the poor public school twerp who can't read his own resume. But, I digress....
:rolleyes:

danez71
January 8, 2013, 11:12 PM
You know, I'm trying to adopt an ''I don't care'' additude myself, but they are not...not the same thing. Having owned a Mauser Bolo pistol and an SKS I know the difference. I have heard of common usage, it's why no nothings call duct tape duck tape. At this point I realise I'm wasting my breath, but if you go back to post #9, you might learn something. Or, then again, maybe [probably] not.

You dont have to be derogatory about it....

Maybe they were really talking about Duck Tape http://www.duckbrand.com/

Warp
January 8, 2013, 11:14 PM
You dont have to be derogatory about it....

Maybe they were really talking about Duck Tape http://www.duckbrand.com/

My favorite part was when he said "no nothings"

PS: It's know. ;)

Fire_Moose
January 8, 2013, 11:24 PM
I would say: Yes, I can fill your magazine up with rounds of ammo


Where as I'd say, fill yer own damn clip or buy ammo


Or if I'm feeling particularly saucey, "ill fill something with something"

useless signiture

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 11:34 PM
''My favorite part was when he said "no nothings"

PS: It's know...''

Thanks Warp, this is what happens when my fingers go faster than my brain. I know it's not ''no''...

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 11:42 PM
Sorry danez71, I was trying NOT to be derogatory...I was actually thinking something much worse, and was merely looking for a polite way to put it.;)

browningguy
January 9, 2013, 12:22 AM
I think all you folks need to quit worrying about terminology, it's doing exactly zero. People are going to use slang in all walks of life.

BHP FAN
January 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
you're welcome to do so.

buck460XVR
January 9, 2013, 07:43 PM
Some things this thread and others like it have taught me.


A.) Folks who claim that they don't care what other folks do are the ones that tend to get the most upset when those other folks don't agree with them.

B.) Just cause folks are anal about something, shouldn't mean they have to be a rectal orifice to others that aren't.

C.) Same folks that pound their chest and claim that using correct terminology puts them above those that don't....still lower themselves to arguing on the internet(can't get any more stupid than that).

D.) Still the same ol' coupla of folks that feel the need to call folks names and belittle others when discussion doesn't get the results they want.

E.) Folks that insist others always use the correct terminology, pride themselves on calling lead projectiles "Boolits".

Last time I checked, one did not need to be a English major to be a active, contributing member on an internet gun forum. I thought the common bond here is firearms, not proper grammar and that the intended usage was to exchange knowledge and opinions about firarms in a polite and friendly way. Anybody that has been on a gun forum for more than a month knows darn well what someone means when they say "clip" "casing" or "9mil". Still nary a thread containing those words can go more than 3 posts without a self-imposed grammar Nazi jumpin' in tryin' to impress. Can I see a raise of hands to see who all here is impressed? I'm thinkin' outta the 13,500 active members here, I might see three hands.......:rolleyes:

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 9, 2013, 08:48 PM
You do understand that to the anti anything that shoots a bullet out of a barrel is an assault rifle. If we used some acronym for FA intermediate cartridge carbines FAICC they'd just come up with their own term that best serves their needs.

Hell blame Hitler if you're gonna blame anyone for the misuse of the catchy term.

The Russians were using the word Avtomat long before WWII to describe this type rifle.

They were using that word correctly. The rifle you posted is the first Assault rifle.

BLB68
January 9, 2013, 10:58 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology

Stuff was actually originally called duck tape.

Guess it's just back in fashion again, especially with the Duck brand out there now.

splattergun
January 9, 2013, 11:03 PM
I wonder if the Germans who invented the stripper clip use different words for clips and magazines?




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about
seems likely, as the stripper clip feeds the magazine. Wouldn't make sense to feed the clip with a clip or feed a magazine with a magazine.

Sorry, my high school German class was too long ago to attempt the translation.

BHP FAN
January 9, 2013, 11:47 PM
Well. So far I've been called anal, a butt, and a Nazi. I think I've been pretty polite. I'm going to take The High Road.

danez71
January 10, 2013, 12:20 AM
Well. So far I've been called anal, a butt, and a Nazi. I think I've been pretty polite. I'm going to take The High Road.

Dont get too torqued up..... there just a bunch of no nothings ;)


Seriously though... and speaking of torque.... 99% of people will say that a motor has xxx ft-lbs of torque. Its lb-ft.

Ive come to realize that I cant expect perfection from others when I'm not perfect myself.

2ifbyC
January 10, 2013, 12:44 AM
The Urban Dictionary defines Stripper Clip as a fastener for holding your bills when paying for lap dances.

Sorry, I just hit a ditch in THR. But there is a fine line between reason and insanity.:o

BHP FAN
January 10, 2013, 02:47 AM
well, it would have gotten boring if I'd just kept referencing the gentleman's post on number nine.

1911 guy
January 10, 2013, 04:26 AM
And nobody has yet mentioned the fact that 9 millimeters do not equal .009"?
And even if we were going strickly metric, 9 millimeters would be expressed as 9.0 mm. .009 would be nine tenths of one millimeter.

Carry on with your normal thread.

R.W.Dale
January 10, 2013, 04:56 AM
And nobody has yet mentioned the fact that 9 millimeters do not equal .009"?


Carry on with your normal thread.


Um that's kinda the point in this thread.

9mils is .009"

9 millimeter is .355"



posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

1911 guy
January 10, 2013, 05:15 AM
No, nine mils are not .009 or .009". Mils are not millimeters, they are a unit we use to measure the chordal length of an arc, shorthand for milradian. Think "mil-dot" scopes.

.009" is nine thousandths of an inch. .009 millimeter is nine thousandths of one millimeter.

I guess what I'm getting at is "mils" is NOT thousandths of an inch. Calling it such in my line of work either gets you laughed at for being an idiot or taken off the job and sent to push a broom so you don't cause any more confusion. I'm a machinist and we deal with prints both in standard and metric. When you mean thousandths of an inch, say so. When you mean millimeters, say so. "Thou", short for "thousandth" is in no way interchangeable with "mil", even when used as shorthand for "millimeter".

R.W.Dale
January 10, 2013, 05:28 AM
Like it or not mil or mils (plural) is a recognized unit of measure for length.

You typically see it used in industrial applications as a way to express paint or film thickness, for example OUR PRINTS will not call for a min paint thickness of .006" it will say plain as day 6mils

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil%23Units_of_measurement&usg=AFQjCNF9m-u-G1oopep-42SJalwVkb1dDA&sa=X&ei=3ojuUPnnMaf42QXpyYH4Aw&ved=0CDcQygQwAQ

http://www.alpinepaintingandrestoration.com/images/wet-film-gauge.jpg




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

JohnBT
January 10, 2013, 09:36 AM
"shorthand for milradian"

Shouldn't that be milliradian?

"The milliradian was first invented in the mid nineteenth Century by Charles-Marc Dapples (1837-1920), an engineer and professor at the University of Lausanne."

holdencm9
January 10, 2013, 10:26 AM
Seriously though... and speaking of torque.... 99% of people will say that a motor has xxx ft-lbs of torque. Its lb-ft.

Whoa now, as an engineer I have never made the distinction. I usually write it as lb-ft but don't think it is wrong the other way. Since it is technically lb*ft or ft*lbs, it is just always written with a dot instead of hyphen but must be typed as lb-ft or ft-lbs. It really doesn't matter which comes first, it is multiplied. I.e. torque being equivalent to a moment, or a lever (length) times force (lbs). But I guess even then you could get confused by pound force or pound mass (although I only ever work on earth so it is assumed that it is pounds force.

Back to OP, different words can have same meaning, same words (or abbreviations) can have different meanings. Even units as described above. mil can mean a lot of different things to different people in different industries. I think the worst sin of all is ignoring units of measure entirely! "Let me bust out my nine and bust a cap" comes to mind.

And wait, how has this thread remained open so long. :confused:

JohnBT
January 10, 2013, 11:46 AM
It keeps us from arguing politics?

BHP FAN
January 10, 2013, 03:36 PM
''It keeps us from arguing politics?''

exactly. I've actually had a lot of fun with this one. The folks that are wrong had some pretty good arguments.;)

danez71
January 10, 2013, 11:06 PM
Whoa now, as an engineer I have never made the distinction. I usually write it as lb-ft but don't think it is wrong the other way.


From Wiki....

A pound-foot (lb·ft or lbf·ft) is a unit of torque (a vector). One pound-foot is the torque created by one pound force acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point.

One pound-foot is exactly 1.3558179483314004 newton meters.[note 1]

The foot-pound force (symbol: ft·lbf or ft·lbf), or simply foot-pound (symbol: ft·lb) is a unit of work or energy in the Engineering and Gravitational Systems in United States customary and imperial units of measure. It is the energy transferred on applying a force of one pound-force (lbf) through a displacement of one foot. The corresponding SI unit is the joule.


The name "pound-foot", intended to minimize confusion with the foot-pound as a unit of work, was apparently first proposed by British physicist Arthur Mason Worthington.[1] However, foot-pound (ft·lb or ft·lbf) is also sometimes used interchangeably with "pound-foot" to express torque.[2]


The foot-pound is often used to specify the muzzle energy of a bullet in small arms ballistics, particularly in the United States.

"Foot-pound" is sometimes also used as a unit of torque (see Pound-foot (torque)). In the United States this unit is often used to specify, for example, the tightness of a bolt or the output of an engine.



Although they are dimensionally equivalent, energy (a scalar), and torque (a vector) are distinct physical quantities. Both energy and torque can be expressed as a product of a force vector with a displacement vector (hence pounds and feet); energy is the scalar product of the two, and torque is the vector product

holdencm9
January 10, 2013, 11:44 PM
:scrutiny: I hear ya, but TWO TIMES in the wiki you linked they specifically say that ft-lbs and lb-ft are interchangeable.

However, foot-pound (ft·lb or ft·lbf) is also sometimes used interchangeably with "pound-foot" to express torque.[2]

"Foot-pound" is sometimes also used as a unit of torque (see Pound-foot (torque)). In the United States this unit is often used to specify, for example, the tightness of a bolt or the output of an engine.

In my particular discipline it is indistinguishable, no one will worry that I am talking about the energy of a bullet when I calculate the moment capacity of a beam. I won't lose any sleep over it :cool:

Again, with calcs as with words, context is key, and knowing audience. But it is always fun to pick nits. :D

trayzor
January 11, 2013, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by buck460xvr
Some things this thread and others like it have taught me.


A.) Folks who claim that they don't care what other folks do are the ones that tend to get the most upset when those other folks don't agree with them.

B.) Just cause folks are anal about something, shouldn't mean they have to be a rectal orifice to others that aren't.

C.) Same folks that pound their chest and claim that using correct terminology puts them above those that don't....still lower themselves to arguing on the internet(can't get any more stupid than that).

D.) Still the same ol' coupla of folks that feel the need to call folks names and belittle others when discussion doesn't get the results they want.

E.) Folks that insist others always use the correct terminology, pride themselves on calling lead projectiles "Boolits".

Last time I checked, one did not need to be a English major to be a active, contributing member on an internet gun forum. I thought the common bond here is firearms, not proper grammar and that the intended usage was to exchange knowledge and opinions about firarms in a polite and friendly way. Anybody that has been on a gun forum for more than a month knows darn well what someone means when they say "clip" "casing" or "9mil". Still nary a thread containing those words can go more than 3 posts without a self-imposed grammar Nazi jumpin' in tryin' to impress. Can I see a raise of hands to see who all here is impressed? I'm thinkin' outta the 13,500 active members here, I might see three hands.......

Amen, that's why I rarely post.

ljnowell
January 11, 2013, 12:32 AM
I will file this one under "who cares." Thats right next to clip/mag, thier/their, and your/you're. I guess I have too many real world concerns to give a poo about stuff like that. I guess you are lucky to have such time to devote to it.

danez71
January 11, 2013, 01:14 AM
Again, with calcs as with words, context is key, and knowing audience. But it is always fun to pick nits

And that was the point of what I was saying.

9mm..... 9mil.... Clip... mag...

We all know what we all are talking about so it boils down to pick nitting.... I mean nit picking ;)

BHP FAN
January 11, 2013, 02:14 AM
I love picnics!...wait, what?

Fishslayer
January 11, 2013, 03:28 AM
Don't believe I've ever seen one of those in any of my Local GUN Shops. Ya never know what some of dem ol' boys might have in the back room tho...:evil:

Rifles, pistols, shotguns and revolvers ARE NOT guns.

THIS is a gun.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Ground/M110-203mm.jpg

You see you me nor anyone else here is being especially correct in our terminology.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

JohnBT
January 11, 2013, 09:42 AM
The Brits were calling shotguns guns long before the founding of the U.S. and the invention of self-propelled artillery. Best guns, etc.

Lots of people were.

www.amazon.com/Best-Guns-Michael-McIntosh/dp/0924357797

holdencm9
January 11, 2013, 12:25 PM
We all know what we all are talking about so it boils down to pick nitting.... I mean nit pickin

The correct and PROPER term is "picking nits" as in, the old english terminology for picking small insignificant fights, because of course the word nit is derived from greek word niet that means small quibble. Picking nits is not to be confused with picking noses.

plunge
January 11, 2013, 01:29 PM
Dont get too torqued up..... there just a bunch of no nothings ;)


Seriously though... and speaking of torque.... 99% of people will say that a motor has xxx ft-lbs of torque. Its lb-ft.

Ive come to realize that I cant expect perfection from others when I'm not perfect myself.
Are you talking about an electric motor? or an internal combustion engine? many people call the engine in their car a motor. a motor uses supplied energy, a engine makes energy. ;)

481
January 11, 2013, 01:40 PM
Wow.

Six pages arguing what? Terminology? Semantics?

This is going nowhere and fast.

jcwit
January 11, 2013, 01:52 PM
Still wondering is it a creek or a crick? A pop, or a soda, or a coke? Is it a faucet or a spicket?

holdencm9
January 11, 2013, 03:06 PM
Wow.

Six pages arguing what? Terminology? Semantics?

This is going nowhere and fast.

I think the mods are just letting it play out because it is harmless and not hurting anyone. Sometimes we need threads like this when every other one is doom and gloom about the future.

Still wondering is it a creek or a crick? A pop, or a soda, or a coke? Is it a faucet or a spicket?

Creek, pop, faucet. I win!

R.W.Dale
January 11, 2013, 03:22 PM
I think the mods are just letting it play out because it is harmless and not hurting anyone. Sometimes we need threads like this when every other one is doom and gloom about the future.


!

Agreed. And surprisingly there's quite a few educational bits contained in this thread for those willing to dig.

BTW its a muzzle BRAKE! A muzzle break would be letting it go to lunch.






posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

r1derbike
January 11, 2013, 03:30 PM
9 mickey mouse



oh and

http://www.knewance.com/storage/post-images/clip_magazine.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1279244330073
UH-OH! I hope that magazine picture wasn't shown in D.C. You could be charged, unless you're part of the elite, or a reporter!

r1derbike
January 11, 2013, 03:35 PM
I think the mods are just letting it play out because it is harmless and not hurting anyone. Sometimes we need threads like this when every other one is doom and gloom about the future.



Creek, pop, faucet. I win!
Nehi-bellywasher. Spygot. Fosay. Stream.

Jeeves, I thought everyone knew that?

r1derbike
January 11, 2013, 03:41 PM
The correct and PROPER term is "picking nits" as in, the old english terminology for picking small insignificant fights, because of course the word nit is derived from greek word niet that means small quibble. Picking nits is not to be confused with picking noses.
Picking nits? I thought that is the practice of people trying to rid themselves of head lice?

How may I have been so wrong?

holdencm9
January 11, 2013, 04:08 PM
Picking nits? I thought that is the practice of people trying to rid themselves of head lice?

How may I have been so wrong?

You must have read that on the internet.

Remember, you can't automatically accept everything you read online as fact.

Also, 83% of statistics are entirely made up. True story.

Robert
January 11, 2013, 04:28 PM
Oh for the love...

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