Any recourse? USPS says delivered - nothing received


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jmace57
January 8, 2013, 06:37 PM
I recently bought 2 original 1903 Colt .32 magazines from an on-line auction. They weren't cheap as they are like hen's teeth.

I got to wondering today why I hadn't received them yet and looked on-line at the USPS tracking number. They show as delivered last Saturday morning with a "Delivery Confirmation".

Well, I was home Saturday as it was pouring rain all day, and was there when the letter carrrier got there. I stood inside my front door waiting for him to leave (as my dogs would take off after him) and picked up my mail when he left. There was no package there.

So, tonight I called the USPS and created a "case" for this for the to try and figure out what happened.

I have been reading on-line that the Delivery Confirmation is basically meaningless - it tells the sender it has been delivered. I have also been reading on-line that I may just be SOL if the post office just says "we delivered it".

Does anyone have any experience with this happening? THanks all.

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radiotom
January 8, 2013, 06:55 PM
Yeah same exact thing one time buying off of ebay. The post office didn't care but ebay reimbursed me. USPS is garbage and has been for as long as I can remember.:cuss:

callenlee
January 8, 2013, 07:05 PM
That sucks. I asked yesterday at the post office about this because we've been having issues with our mail for a long while. We get other people's and apparently someone else gets ours periodically. I've received notification from my credit card people that they needed an updated address because my bill was returned to them. I ordered a scale and some ammunition and it was left in an unlocked box in the neighborhood mailboxes.

The specific issue I asked about was because my wife had ordered something and it showed as delivered but we never got it. The post office supervisor told me that the sender would have to file a claim. That was as far as the explanation got...the seller is refusing to file a claim because my wife hasn't left feedback yet (stupid ebayers!). I guess the seller is supposed to file a claim, they get reimbursed (I assume...and probably do so incorrectly), and are supposed to reimburse the buyer. Doesn't make much sense to me.

If you paid with paypal they have a process for filing a claim and getting reimbursed, but I don't know if it applies to all situations. Might be worth checking out: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

RetiredUSNChief
January 8, 2013, 07:18 PM
I can't help you with the USPS...I've no experience with them on something not delivered.

FedEx and UPS, however, I do have some experience with. Both times something was supposed to have been delivered, I called and they went through their tracking channels, all the way to the driver.

Shortly, the driver showed up at my door with the package and an apology for misdelivery.

It would seem that the USPS should have similar controls and means. I wish you the best of luck here.

parker51
January 8, 2013, 07:26 PM
Unless it was insured you might be out of luck if it doesn't show up. As you know Delivery Confirmation only lets the mailer know the package was delivered. Hope it turns up.

glock30
January 8, 2013, 08:21 PM
Have you checked with your neighbors? I know that with delivery confirmation they just scan it delivered and put it in the box.I'm guessing he put it in the wrong box.Hope it shows up!

ApacheCoTodd
January 8, 2013, 08:33 PM
I know it's after the fact but always pop for the insurance.
Having friends in the USPS - I've been told multiple times in varying ways that it not only protects the buyer (his money after all) but instills a greater level of accountability on what might otherwise be one of the USPS's lowest-common-denominator hirees.

rcmodel
January 8, 2013, 08:38 PM
If you didn't sign for it, it wasn't delivered.

All Delivered means is the package or mail guy punched it in on his computer at your address.
Or the one down the street or the next block over if he was sightly lost at the time.

File a claim ASAP.

rc

Mainsail
January 8, 2013, 08:38 PM
I had that happen with the USPS recently. Went to the PO every day for three days. The item mysteriously showed up several days later.

medalguy
January 8, 2013, 11:08 PM
Four times between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Two packages from Amazon, one from another vendor, and one from a guy on the forums with whom I was working a trade for some dies. None of the four has turned up.

When I went to the PO and spoke with the mail supervisor, she simply said they showed delivered. Nothing more she could do. I commented that that confirmed what I had thought for a long time, that delivery confirmation was totally worthless. The supervisor, who I have known for many years, looked around the lobby to see who was within hearing range, then said quietly "I'm not allowed to say that."

With Fedex and UPS they are required to obtain a signature. With UPS, their DIAD board records the exact GPS location when they deliver a package and it's tied to the package number, so if a package turns up missing, they can determine the location where the package left the package car. Pretty neat.

KingMedicine
January 8, 2013, 11:39 PM
I've had packages come up as delivered, and them pop up a few days later. Like someone clicked delivered and it was still in route.

SilentStalker
January 8, 2013, 11:43 PM
This seems to be a trend with gun parts and ammo lately which I find interesting. I never have problems with the USPS but I have read tons of experiences such as your own lately. I hope that the shipper took out insurance on it. Good luck to you and keep us informed.

larryh1108
January 9, 2013, 08:10 AM
It is a seriously flawed system. I sell a lot and buy a lot and use the USPS quite often. With delivery confirmation, it "protects" the seller because it shows delivered. However, delivered to whom?
In addresses we have N Main St, S Main St, etc.
We have Elm St, Elm Pl, Elm Ave, etc.
It could have been delivered to the wrong address but it doesn't go that far at the P.O.

Another time I was waiting for a UPS or FedEx delivery. The person who mailed it paid extra for 3pm or earlier delilvery. I waited at the front door all day. I checked the online status every 15 minutes. It showed out for delivery all day. At 5:10pm it showed up. I called the sender and told him it just showed up and to contact the carrier to get a refund for the 3pm guarantee. I then went online to see what they had and it showed delivered at 2:50pm. Huh? 5:10 is not 2:50 but what can you do. At least I got the package.

SouthernYankee
January 9, 2013, 08:37 AM
Unfortunately, if you want a pkg. don't use the PO. They are cheaper but UPS and FedEx are way my efficient and accountable. If your pkg. with the USPS was uninsured, good luck:banghead:.

jmr40
January 9, 2013, 08:41 AM
I sold a McMillan stock to a gentleman in Charlotte NC. Same thing happened. Tracking said it was delevered, buyer said it was not. I paid for insurance, but USPS says that once it was confirmed delivered, they consider it delevered and I was SOL. I contacted the buyer and advised he file a report with his local USPS, which he did.

Although I did not believe it was the case, there was the possibility the buyer had in fact received the package and was trying to get the stock and his money back so I contacted the local PD. I was able to fill out an online form. I was conacted by a local detective by both E-mail and phone. In the meantime I refunded the money. The detective made a few calls and about 10 days later the USPS "found" the package. Seems they never delivered it after all. Even though they confirmed it delivered with an exact time of deliverey. The USPS contacted the buyer who had to come into the PO and pick up his package. He then sent payment again.

All worked out eventually for me, just took about 4 weeks from beginning to end. I'd file a report with both the USPS and local police. There is a chance it was delivered and stolen before you found it. Stolen articles are often recovered, but if you don't file a report you have no possibility of recovering it.

flgolfer29
January 9, 2013, 08:43 AM
Several months ago I made a purchase of 1000 38 spl shell casings from an individual on Gunbroker. The items were shipped via USPS and a tracking number was provided. I followed the package through several locations with the last being in Ohio; it disappeared from that point on. USPS was useless in resolving my issue. However, the seller and I agreed upon a negotiated price for more shell casings to which we were both somewhat agreeable to.

joe

moonpie
January 9, 2013, 10:06 AM
i had the same problem with Fed(up)Ex. my new computer barely missed the rain after being left overnight on my neighbor's deck. monday after receiving an email alert on an auto parts delivery i went next door and there it was . maybe i can find some oversize neon address markers for the driveway.

Mainsail
January 9, 2013, 10:26 AM
I sent a Sig slide out to a popular refinishing house last year. The owner promised to send me an email when she had mailed it back, but the only email I got was one asking if I had received the slide. Nope.

I used the tracking number she gave me and it got to the local postal sorting center but was returned; the message ‘invalid address’. My address is perfectly valid.

The owner at the refinishing house got the box back, but the slide was gone- replaced with a rusty socket of some sort.

We both called just about everyone in the USPS trying to get a resolution. It was obvious that a postal worker had stolen the slide because the box never left their system. Even though she had a clear distinguishable fingerprint on the tape the thief had used to reseal the box, the USPS, including their own Inspector General, didn’t care one whit.

Sig replaced the slide, but the fit isn’t as good as I remember the original having. Meanwhile, the USPS struggles to remain afloat, no wonder since thievery seems to be SOP for them.

I loathe the USPS.

parker51
January 9, 2013, 10:27 AM
This seems to be a trend with gun parts and ammo lately which I find interesting. I never have problems with the USPS but I have read tons of experiences such as your own lately. I hope that the shipper took out insurance on it. Good luck to you and keep us informed.

If you are having problems getting ammo delivered by USPS it might be due to it being confiscated as it is illegal to ship it through the post office.

rcmodel
January 9, 2013, 02:32 PM
don't use the PO. They are cheaper but UPS and FedEx are way my efficient and accountable.That doesn't work anymore.

UPS & USPS are in cahoots now.
http://federaldaily.com/articles/2012/12/06/ups-and-usps-say-if-you-cant-beat--em.aspx

The last knife I ordered traveled 1,800 mile across the country via UPS in 3 days.
Then they turned it over to the Shawnee Mission KS mail sorting center for USPS delivery to my home.

And it took 3 more days to get the last 30 miles.

rc

hoghunting
January 9, 2013, 04:53 PM
The last knife I ordered traveled 1,800 mile across the country via UPS in 3 days.
Then they turned it over to the Shawnee Mission KS mail sorting center for USPS delivery to my home.

Fed EX also does the same thing as I've had it happen it N. TX, package had the Fed Ex shipping label and tracked it to USPS station, then delivered by USPS.

Canuck-IL
January 9, 2013, 05:18 PM
Yes to FedEx partnering with USPS - almost exactly doubles all delivery times.

Couple things I do to ameliorate the inevitable issues somewhat ...
- always ship to my office rather than home - shouldn't matter but the hit rate is much better, especially for heavy items (2k of 45ACP bullets). As a commercial address, USPS is by at least twice a day with a van for deliveries and pick-ups. They don't seem fazed by heavy/bulky pkgs ... not so with the door-to-door carriers who have on occasion only brought the "no one home - pick-up at post office" note with them rather than the actual package - - so he had pre-filled the no one home and left the pkg at the depot

- if selling, I always ask if the buyer wants insurance

- if buying I always pay for insurance
/Bryan

jmace57
January 9, 2013, 06:18 PM
I guess I don't feel better after reading these responses (but I appreciate them anyway). I filed a "case" yesterday with the USPS and there was a message on my answering machine today where the local postmaster was saying "we show it was delivered, and don't know much we can do about it". I have his number and am calling tomorrow AM.

RetiredUSNChief
January 9, 2013, 06:40 PM
I guess I don't feel better after reading these responses (but I appreciate them anyway). I filed a "case" yesterday with the USPS and there was a message on my answering machine today where the local postmaster was saying "we show it was delivered, and don't know much we can do about it". I have his number and am calling tomorrow AM.

I hate to say this, but you may end up biting the bullet on this one and coming away with some valuable lessons learned. Hopefully they'll turn up in the near future.

One of those valuable lessons learned is that cases like this are probably a major part of the reason the USPS is running in the hole financially and losing ground against commercial delivery companies...companies who are more in tune with customer service.

It's not much consolation, but perhaps this string will help others take steps to avoid this. Certainly many have posted valuable information.

Still, I wish you the best of luck.

:(

husker
January 9, 2013, 06:52 PM
I just went through this with the Ashton Drake doll company.Trying to get a doll for my daughter for an XMAS present
I went to my bank & delt with the fraud department of Wells Fargo. After waiting for 45 days for the doll to show up. IT WAS THE RIGHT MOVE.

BLB68
January 9, 2013, 07:28 PM
Your recourse should be with the seller. They're the customer for USPS, since they shipped the package. I'd try working with them to get USPS to locate the package. If they're unable, then ultimately they're responsible for a refund.

Black Knight
January 9, 2013, 08:04 PM
One other possibility in resolving this if it does not turn up in the next few days is the U. S. Postal Inspection Service. File a complaint that the item has apparently been delivered to the wrong address or somehow has been intercepted. You might be surprised how quickly items show up after the Postal Inspectors find out about a problem. Many years ago I had a subscription to a magazine and had not received one for about 2 months. I called the magazine and they said they had been sent and would send out a replacement. I also called the Postal Inspection Service Office and filed an intercepted mail complaint. The most recent magazine was in my mailbox 2 days later looking as if it had been through a flood. The replacement from the magazine company came in a week later. After the investigation was completed it was found that several carriers were not delivering all the mail but throwing some in a trash dumpster. This is one possibility and happens more than people think.

jmace57
January 9, 2013, 09:01 PM
Thanks - I did contact (by email) the auction house where I bought the mags to let them know what happened. I suspect that with the USPS saying it was delivered, they are going to say too bad, so sad.

Texrtc
January 9, 2013, 09:14 PM
Same problem with USPS. I ordered 4000 45acp bullets and them shipped to my office. I called the distributor and was told that they had been shipped a week earlier and their records showed them as delivered. I called the local USPS and inquired and told them that no delivery had been made. I was immediately put on phone with a supervisor who put me on the phone with the driver who delivers to my building. The driver told me they were still on his truck because he did not want to haul them to my suite due to the weight. In two hours he was in my officer delivering my bullets.

Deanimator
January 9, 2013, 09:24 PM
I ordered a camera lens reverse ring before Christmas. I had it sent to a friend's office, since there's no rental office here or anyone to receive it when I'm at work.

USPS listed it as "delivered", but nothing was received. I contacted Amazon and they refunded my money.

jmace57
January 16, 2013, 05:56 PM
All - I wanted to follow up to be fair. The package arrived today. No explanation. Just sitting in my mailbox. No second follow-up call as promised by the local postmaster. I wonder where the box has been for the past 13 days. It had no "delivered to wrong address" on it or anythiing. I wonder if I would have seen it if I hadn't filed a case with the USPS.

Anyway...happy ending.

RetiredUSNChief
January 16, 2013, 07:31 PM
Well, all's well that ends well, then!

Congratulations!

At least now you hve some helpful information to mitigate such occurances in the future.

By the way, how to the magazines work?

wow6599
January 16, 2013, 08:08 PM
Glad it worked out in the end.

IMHO, FedEx has been the most gun friendly of the 3 carriers. They will take a handgun or rifle at any FedEx store in my area. UPS - drive 20 miles to their main hub.

Also just sent an AR back to Stag for a little repair. I went to the closest store, which was a UPS store, to buy a 48" box. The worker asked me what I was shipping. She went semi crazy..... "you cant ship rifles, it's illegal!"

I told her of UPS' policy, and the federal law.....

herkyguy
January 16, 2013, 09:24 PM
two years ago i sent a XD slide off for new sights. It came back via USPS as delivered, but i never received it. after jumping through hoops for three days, the delivery guy delivered it a few days later with a post-it note attached to the package saying he had "accidently" put it in the wrong box. I had spoken with every supervisor i could and personally driven miles to the nearest office to complain with no resolution until it magically appeared.

I hate USPS. They are a burden to the taxpayer and nothing more.

RetiredUSNChief
January 16, 2013, 11:00 PM
I hate USPS. They are a burden to the taxpayer and nothing more.

Actually...

The USPS hasn't received any direct tax funding since sometime in the 1980's, with few exceptions.

Just saying...

;)

GlowinPontiac
January 16, 2013, 11:26 PM
I get junk mail with my address and the name of a guy 3 houses away on it. Both of us have visited the post office and called everyone possible but USPS just says there is nothing they can do.

I have also received packages with half the contents gone and a "sorry your package has been damaged" sticker on it. USPS says that since the package was delivered its not their problem it got cut open and retaped with items missing.....

tarosean
January 16, 2013, 11:51 PM
Keep in mind that both Fedx and UPS are now delivering to the USPS. (With sure post and, I forget what the other is called). It shows up as delivered with your respected tracking number but in fact it was only delivered to the local post office.

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 12:32 AM
Keep in mind that both Fedx and UPS are now delivering to the USPS. (With sure post and, I forget what the other is called). It shows up as delivered with your respected tracking number but in fact it was only delivered to the local post office.

There's that option, anyway. You should ask if they deliver to the door or via USPS. Some companies clearly define that in their shipping options, some do not. It's a nominally higher price for delivery to the door and not via USPS, but not much.

12131
January 17, 2013, 03:10 AM
If you didn't sign for it, it wasn't delivered.

All Delivered means is the package or mail guy punched it in on his computer at your address.
Or the one down the street or the next block over if he was sightly lost at the time.

File a claim ASAP.

rc

If there was no "Signature Required", then if it's delivered, it's delivered. It could have been stolen from the front door, but it's still "delivered".
If there was a "Signature Required", and it says "Delivered", but the supposed receiver never signed for it, then I agree with you that it was not delivered.

Anyway, glad that the OP finally received his stuff.

herkyguy
January 17, 2013, 09:47 AM
Actually...

The USPS hasn't received any direct tax funding since sometime in the 1980's, with few exceptions.

Just saying...

;)
they are losing money EVERY year and are backed by the Federal Government. The Federal Government is backed by my tax dollars. Period.

I don't care about semantics, USPS is a failing entity propped up by the government. If it were a private business, it would have shut its doors years ago. on top of that, their customer service is horrible and I just about lost a slide to a handgun because of their incompetence. When it comes to parts for firearms, i go out of my way to avoid shipping anything via USPS. plenty of vendors also advise against using them due to damage.

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 12:13 PM
they are losing money EVERY year and are backed by the Federal Government. The Federal Government is backed by my tax dollars. Period.

I don't care about semantics, USPS is a failing entity propped up by the government. If it were a private business, it would have shut its doors years ago. on top of that, their customer service is horrible and I just about lost a slide to a handgun because of their incompetence. When it comes to parts for firearms, i go out of my way to avoid shipping anything via USPS. plenty of vendors also advise against using them due to damage.

If you're curious to look into these things, one of the major reasons the USPS is having problems is that Congress mandated that they massively prepay into their Retiree Health Benefits over 10 years, due to the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006. This is to the tune of 32 billion dollars.

Before that, they were running modest profits...not bad, considering the USPS is supposed to be self-funded by selling it's own services, while breaking even on expenses. (They aren't supposed to be a profit maker.)

It's not helping that the USPS overpaid into the governments pension program and never received that money back. To the tune of billions.

As for federal tax money they DO get...it's only about 100 million or so a year.
With an annual budget a wee bit over 70 BILLION, which is self-funded, I hardly think the 100 million in taxes constitutes a total failure.

If they can get through the Congress mandated pre-funding issue they got saddled with, they shouldn't be having any more problems.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-19/news/chi-110919turney_briefs_1_postal-jobs-postal-service-health-benefits

http://www.postalreporter.info/blog/usps-projects-7-6-billion-loss-for-fy2013-5-6-billion-due-to-prefunding/

http://www.nalc.org/depart/legpol/pdf/2011/USPS_financial_challenges_03-2011_Fact%20Sheet%20(leg).pdf


So no...the USPS isn't a money pit like so many other government run programs.

herkyguy
January 17, 2013, 12:45 PM
So don't pay into a retirement account and let it turn into yet another government backed pyramid scheme?? That way the books won't show so much red? Come on now....that's the party line from the union. how about those no-layoff clauses in contracts?? There are bigger problems.

Bottom line is USPS doesn't compete with private carriers. I wish it did, but it simply does not.

Firearms related, I reference my earlier posts. I lost a slide and had zero support and no explanation why it magically appeared days later. On top of that, I have been told by several gun parts vendors specifically to avoid shipping via USPS due to problems with delivery and damage to parts.

When I ship or receive a firearms-related shipment via UPS, there is tracking data up to the minute from departure to arrival. Same thing with Fedex.

Via USPS, there is a tracking number generated that often displays no updates until the day the item (sights, scopes, grips, magazines etc.... just to name the kind of gun parts I ship) arrives. It is useless.

nazshooter
January 17, 2013, 01:46 PM
The main reason I'm wary of using USPS for guns is their poor tracking system. For less important stuff they do just fine.

If you're curious to look into these things, one of the major reasons the USPS is having problems is that Congress mandated that they massively prepay into their Retiree Health Benefits over 10 years, due to the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006. This is to the tune of 32 billion dollars.


This is only unreasonable if you think delivering pieces of dead trees to nearly every home in America nearly every day makes sense in the 21st century. Mail is a dying business so they need to either fully fund their pensions or stop promising them.


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