a question on who all reloads?


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rockjd79
January 8, 2013, 09:23 PM
I was trying to get my brother-in-law to see the value of reloading. Beside the cost, and knowing exact components in each round. I was trying to tell him about the accuracy that can be gained by reloading. The question that came back to me was, "so do all snipers and competition shooters reload?" I didn't know how to answer this one.

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ColtPythonElite
January 8, 2013, 09:42 PM
I would guess most snipers don't and most competition shooters do.

cfullgraf
January 8, 2013, 09:49 PM
I saw a show about snipers somewhere. Part of the show thew were talking about the hand loading of the rounds. The shooter himself was not doing the loading but some other soldier.

Cannot say if that is really true but made sense.

hueyville
January 8, 2013, 09:57 PM
Most rounds used by U.S. snipers are handloads built in the arsenal by the same smith that build the rifle under exacting conditions. Snipers have too much other stuff to hump around when in country.

jim243
January 8, 2013, 09:59 PM
"so do all snipers and competition shooters reload?" I didn't know how to answer this one.

Tell his YES, each time they reload their gun.

Jim

Skulptor
January 8, 2013, 10:37 PM
The movie Jack Reacher has some interesting scenes and dialog about reloading and snipers. It doesn't answer your question definitively but, it does indicate competetors and snipers do have/use handloads.
Good flick btw.

Hungry1
January 8, 2013, 11:20 PM
Most rounds used by U.S. snipers are handloads built in the arsenal by the same smith that build the rifle under exacting conditions. Snipers have too much other stuff to hump around when in country.
Most rounds used by U.S snipers are made by Lake City. :)

KansasSasquatch
January 8, 2013, 11:33 PM
I think Hungry1 is right about Lake City. I would assume thats why Lake City makes "match grades" of certain calibers and has for years. But the competitive shooting teams of at least some of the armed forces do have military personnel making custom handloads for specific rifles. Lake City ammo isn't bad but there's no way off the shelf ammo is going to work for highly competitive shooting matches.

medalguy
January 9, 2013, 12:19 AM
When I was on an Air Force rifle team, we pulled the bullets and remeasured the powder for competition. Mostly we pulled the 173 gr bullets, reweighed the charge, and seated Sierra 168 gr HPBT bullets. So yes, most competitive shooters and probably snipers DO reload their ammo.

Patocazador
January 9, 2013, 10:55 AM
Besides accuracy another reason to reload is to get premium bullets for your most accurate load. I load Nosler Partitions in all my hunting handloads. They aren't quite as accurate as Ballistic Tips but they don't fail on game.

USSR
January 9, 2013, 11:07 AM
Most rounds used by U.S snipers are made by Lake City.

+1. Current issue U.S. military sniper ammo is Lake City M118 LR and has been since 1997. Snipers do NOT reload their own ammo. They shoot whatever their department (police) or Uncle Sam issues them.

Don

RandyP
January 9, 2013, 03:08 PM
If your brother in law in not interested in reloading, he isn't interested in reloading. Typically folks can reload most common calibers for about 1/2 the cost of store bought but for any number of reasons most shooters do NOT reload. It is a fun and rewarding hobby ONLY if a person is looking for a fun and rewarding hobby. Otherwise it could easily be viewed as a P.I.A. and a waste of free time.

Reloads are not necessarily any more 'accurate' than store bought, regardless of what sniper do - lol - because it all depends on the skill of the reloader and their attention to detail.

mcdonl
January 9, 2013, 03:33 PM
Many people who shoot hate the thought of reloading. I do it because it is fun. I spend more money on reloading supplies and equipment than I do on guns lately.

blarby
January 9, 2013, 03:38 PM
Quote:
Most rounds used by U.S snipers are made by Lake City.
+1. Current issue U.S. military sniper ammo is Lake City M118 LR and has been since 1997. Snipers do NOT reload their own ammo. They shoot whatever their department (police) or Uncle Sam issues them.

Don

Yup yup.

Competition guys such as those at perry do a little bullet smashing, so I hear......

mtrmn
January 9, 2013, 03:46 PM
To me what DOES make reloads more accurate is the fact you can fine-tune your loads for YOUR gun.

45lcshooter
January 9, 2013, 06:02 PM
Snipers do not shoot the volume as competition shooters. The theory behind snipers is 1 shot 1 kill. So to answer the question, I would bet the house that snipers either reload or have a source in the military to have special reloads made just for them. Remember snipers are the elite of elite competition shooters.

Bud0505
January 9, 2013, 06:28 PM
Hopefully your brother in law is giving you his brass.

USSR
January 9, 2013, 07:30 PM
...I would bet the house that snipers either reload or have a source in the military to have special reloads made just for them. Remember snipers are the elite of elite competition shooters.

Get ready to sign over the deed, 45lcshooter. Below is what is issue ammo for Army and Marine Corp. snipers and DM's.

http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/M118long.jpg

Please tell us where snipers are issued reloading equipment as part of their kit? Or, tell us what Army or Marine Corp unit provides the "special reloads"? And, I hate to tell you, but most snipers are not competition shooters; competition shooters are by and large civilians.

Don

RustyFN
January 9, 2013, 09:33 PM
I saw a show about snipers somewhere. Part of the show thew were talking about the hand loading of the rounds. The shooter himself was not doing the loading but some other soldier.

I saw a special on TV about military snipers and they said the same thing.

USSR
January 9, 2013, 09:47 PM
Well, if it's on TV, then it must be true.:rolleyes:

Don

Upstater
January 9, 2013, 10:14 PM
Or the Internet!:banghead:

USSR
January 9, 2013, 11:07 PM
Or the Internet!

Yeah. I've had guys state on forums that snipers pull the bullets and insert them backwards 'cause they're more accurate or deadly or some other such foolishness.

Don

Lost Sheep
January 9, 2013, 11:16 PM
I was trying to get my brother-in-law to see the value of reloading. Beside the cost, and knowing exact components in each round. I was trying to tell him about the accuracy that can be gained by reloading. The question that came back to me was, "so do all snipers and competition shooters reload?" I didn't know how to answer this one.
Why do I load thee, let me count the ways.:

Economy: Depending on what cartridges you are reloading (and whether or not you want to count your time and the up-front equipment costs) you can save anywhere from just a little to 80% or more of your ammo costs. (9mm is very close to no savings. 500 S&W, my friend's ammo costs are $0.75 per round, factory loaded ammo is $3.00 each for comparable ammo. More exotic calibers (especially rifle calibers) can save even more. Some rounds are not even available on a regular basis at any price.

Quality: Ammo you craft yourself can be tuned to your firearms particular characteristics. Handloaders for rifles quite often find some individual guns have quite striking differences in group size when shooting tuned ammunition.

Knowledge: As you study reloading, you will, perforce, also study internal ballistics. The study of internal ballistics leads into the study of how your firearm works.

Customization: Ammo you load yourself can be tuned to your particular needs. My friend with the 500 S&W loads full power loads and "powder puff" loads that clock 350 grain slugs a little under 800 feet per second. I know that's more than a G.I. 45 ACP's power and momentum, but they shoot like 22 rimfire in that big, heavy gun. Great for fun, familiarization, training and letting the curious bystander go for a "test drive" with a super-light load, a medium load, a heavy load and, if they are still game one of the big boomers. This tends to avoid the "rear sight in the forehead" mark.

Satisfaction: Punching small bunches of small, medium or large holes in paper or bringing down a game or food animal with ammunition you crafted yourself has a good deal of satisfaction. Same reason I prefer to make my own biscuits instead of store-bought.

Smug satisfaction: When the ammo shelves are bare during a market or political scare, loaders are demonstrably less affected by the shortages. A couple of pounds of powder, a thousand primers and bullets (or few pounds of lead) and a hundred cartridge cases wouldn't fill a small book carton, but lets the loader know he can shoot while price-gougers take advantage of non-loaders.

Self-satisfaction: The repetitive, calm, attentive concentration of the reloading activities is often found to be so much fun as to bring to the shooter's mind the question, "Do I reload so I can shoot shoot or do I shoot so I can reload?". Some find loading to be as satisfying a hobby as shooting or fly-tying or many other hobbies.

The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is not another piece of paper, but another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.

Lost Sheep

Nappers
January 10, 2013, 05:57 AM
A buddy just discharged from our armed forces says that companies will make rounds for the various guns they shoot. They shoot the various bullets and the ones they like, bullet weight, powder charge etc., they tell them and that's what they get. Not the factory, slam a bunch together but very precise made bullets made for what they ask for.

So, in a sense, they get bullets with different bullet weight, powder charges etc and they pick the one that works best for them. Not sure if it's for that sniper team(division) or the whole Army, Marines Air Force etc.....

USSR
January 10, 2013, 08:36 AM
A buddy just discharged from our armed forces says that companies will make rounds for the various guns they shoot. They shoot the various bullets and the ones they like, bullet weight, powder charge etc., they tell them and that's what they get. Not the factory, slam a bunch together but very precise made bullets made for what they ask for.

So, in a sense, they get bullets with different bullet weight, powder charges etc and they pick the one that works best for them. Not sure if it's for that sniper team(division) or the whole Army, Marines Air Force etc.....


So, all these sniper guys are shooting gawd knows what loads, and the Army and Marine Corp are OK about it? Ridiculous!!! The Armed Forces is all about logistics. Google "General MacArthur M1 Garand Development". The M1 Garand was initially designed to fire a .276 caliber cartridge. General MacArthur put the kabash on that and insisted that the rifle be chambered in .30-06 because they already had millions of rounds for that cartridge in the supply line. You guys have got to use logic and stop listening to what your sister's boyfriend's cousin's best friend said.:banghead:

Don

Nappers
January 10, 2013, 08:50 AM
So, all these sniper guys are shooting gawd knows what loads, and the Army and Marine Corp are OK about it? Ridiculous!!! The Armed Forces is all about logistics. Google "General MacArthur M1 Garand Development". The M1 Garand was initially designed to fire a .276 caliber cartridge. General MacArthur put the kabash on that and insisted that the rifle be chambered in .30-06 because they already had millions of rounds for that cartridge in the supply line. You guys have got to use logic and stop listening to what your sister's boyfriend's cousin's best friend said.

Don

It wasn't my sisters, hair dressers, boyfriends cousins wife, grandpa.....

I just relayed what I was told from an Army fellow. They know what they are shooting as they were told what bullet has what componets. Not sure on who all gets them or if it's the military wide or just certain snipers in certain divisions, platoons etc.

made sense to me, they bring what they have, they shoot, they report what they like and the manufacturer(s) build it to specs.

mtrmn
January 10, 2013, 09:31 AM
"The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is not another piece of paper, but another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.

Lost Sheep"

Guess that makes me a fanatic.........:uhoh:

Still Shooting
January 10, 2013, 12:46 PM
"The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is not another piece of paper, but another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.


What he said! Over the past 10 months, I have found the "magic load" that gets my Savage 7mmWSM, and both my Ruger (early)M77 in .257 Roberts, and my wife's Ruger Ultralight M77 in .243 down to 1/2moa at 100 yds. The Savage came down from a "best group" of about 1.5moa; the .243 makes one, ragged 5-round hole in a half inch circle, and the .257 Bob is (again) approaching sub-half moa.

The process is circular in nature:
1) Find the best group with rifle as-is
2) "Tune" the rifle" - trigger, bedding, action screw torque, etc.
3) Repeat Step 1
4) Repeat Step 2
5) Repeat Step 1.....until I get it whare I feel I can go no further.

dickttx
January 10, 2013, 01:10 PM
I would guess that a vast majority of shooters are not interested in reloading.
I started in the 60's and most gun people thought I was crazy.
Most people do not have the time to both shoot/hunt and reload. I did not for about 40 years because of the time involved. Now that I am 76 years old and retired I do again because I am usually LOOKING FOR something to do.:D And lots of things I used to do are not doable now.:D:D

Adam the Gnome
January 10, 2013, 04:25 PM
What's not to love about reloading? You get to enjoy all your firearms while the weather is crappy.
Unfortunately it does take up a good bit of time, and for apartment dwellers like myself, space.


Sent from my evil black phone

Patocazador
January 10, 2013, 05:54 PM
That Sierra Matchking 175 gr. bullet in the M118, is it a ball (FMJ) bullet? If it is a S.P., it is illegal under the Geneva Convention. Anyone who uses or condones the soft-point would be guilty of a war crime.

Just wondering ....

USSR
January 10, 2013, 07:24 PM
That Sierra Matchking 175 gr. bullet in the M118, is it a ball (FMJ) bullet? If it is a S.P., it is illegal under the Geneva Convention. Anyone who uses or condones the soft-point would be guilty of a war crime.

Just wondering ....

It's a hollowpoint boattail bullet. Got nothing to do with the Geneva Convention. The Hague Convention has statutes that deal with ammunition, but the U.S. is not a signatory to it (although we follow it). What it basically says is, you cannot use a bullet designed to expand and cause undue suffering. In the case of the Sierra MatchKing, the hollowpoint is not "designed" to expand (and in most cases it doesn't), the hollowpoint is simply a result of the construction method (enclosed base, so you have to insert the lead core from the front end of the bullet instead of the rear as in a FMJ).

Don

hueyville
January 10, 2013, 07:29 PM
What was the movie where some dude was taking his knife to cut a big X in the nose of his bullets to make them more deadly? I always hoped screwing up thier own ammo would catch on with the shady types.

RustyFN
January 10, 2013, 08:07 PM
Well, if it's on TV, then it must be true.

Don

Yep just like in a magazine or on the internet.

Hungry1
January 10, 2013, 09:02 PM
What was the movie where some dude was taking his knife to cut a big X in the nose of his bullets to make them more deadly? I always hoped screwing up thier own ammo would catch on with the shady types.
Not sure if it's the same movie that your speaking of, but I remember Chief Brody messing with his bullets in Jaws :D

Lost Sheep
January 11, 2013, 03:32 AM
What was the movie where some dude was taking his knife to cut a big X in the nose of his bullets to make them more deadly? I always hoped screwing up thier own ammo would catch on with the shady types.Not sure if it's the same movie that your speaking of, but I remember Chief Brody messing with his bullets in Jaws :D
I Chief Brody put some kind of poison (I think, poison, but it might have been an impact-sensitive explosive-I haven't seen the movie in a while) in the hollowpoints and sealed them with wax. Might have been Jaws 2. The first time out, I don't think he was that impressed with Sharks before he got on the boat "Orca".

The scene where Travis Bickle (Robert De Niro, in Martin Scorsese's "Taxi Driver") put cross-cuts in his bullets with a hunting knife is the one I most remember, though I am sure it has been done in other movies as well.

Lost Sheep

blarby
January 11, 2013, 05:00 AM
hat was the movie where some dude was taking his knife to cut a big X in the nose of his bullets to make them more deadly? I

I remember something like this in a bear hunting movie... it was a major motion picture...name escapes me.

He tested it on a half fallen tree at some 100 yards and blew the back out of it, if I remember correctly ?

Magnum Shooter
January 11, 2013, 06:12 AM
Got nothing to do with the Geneva Convention. The Hague Convention has statutes that deal with ammunition, but the U.S. is not a signatory to it (although we follow it).

No convention has anything to do with ammunition used on the target range, only if used in combat.

Nappers
January 11, 2013, 06:26 AM
The movie Priest (vampire movie) the priest was cutting crosses in the bullets.....

Reloadron
January 11, 2013, 06:30 AM
As to what snipers use for ammunition? Never gave it much thought but as long as they can eliminate their targets I am fine with whatever they use.

As to reloading in general I load my own not as much to save a buck but to get the most out of my rifles for accuracy. While years have passed since I shot matches just about every match shooter I was acquainted with rolled their own and some were downright OCD about it. I mean OCD to the point of keeping their match loads in small coolers at a shoot just to eliminate the variable of temperature effects. Anyway, in a nutshell, I load my own for accuracy as I can make better ammunition than I can buy in most cases and no, it is not always the least expensive path. For handgun I only load .38 SPL, .357 Magnum, .45 ACP and .44 Magnum. Anything else, while I may have the dies I just buy.

Still being new to this forum I was really surprised at the number of members who do not load their own. Aside from the person who only uses a rifle to hunt game I pretty much figured that any rifle enthusiast and regular range shooter would be loading their own. Guess I figured wrong. :)

I do have a question. If I go to the store and buy some .308 new unfired brass, some powder, some bullets and some primers and make ammunition would I be reloading or loading? :)

Ron

USSR
January 11, 2013, 08:24 AM
I do have a question. If I go to the store and buy some .308 new unfired brass, some powder, some bullets and some primers and make ammunition would I be reloading or loading?:)
Maybe handloading?:)

Don

Reloadron
January 11, 2013, 10:53 AM
Maybe handloading?:)

Don
Works for me as that is what I have been calling the stuff when I make it from all new components. :)

Thanks Don

Ron

Ehtereon11B
January 11, 2013, 11:08 AM
I would have loved to had handloads in my SDM overseas. But I opened the same box of ammo as everyone else shooting over 300, Lake City bulk.

I don't have any experience with LEO scouts but I will guess they don't handload either. A civilian competative shooter would be out of their mind to not handload their rounds to get the best accuracy and ammo amount for practice.

Lost Sheep
January 11, 2013, 11:15 PM
I remember something like this in a bear hunting movie... it was a major motion picture...name escapes me.

He tested it on a half fallen tree at some 100 yards and blew the back out of it, if I remember correctly ?
Yeah movie bullets can do that. Their prop trees are made of papier mache.

Lost Sheep

flipajig
January 12, 2013, 01:12 AM
I started rolling my own to help support shooting a 44mag and from there to every thing I shoot. I also have learned how to cast my own Boolits so the 38,357,9 mm,44 mag ,
7 TCU and as soon as I get my equipment set up again I will be casting and loading for my 30-30 and probably the 30-06 all of these get fed a steady diet of cast Boolits. As for accuracy in my 06 my hand loads are alot more accuate than the factory that I have tryed. Now when you start shooting wild cats you have to load your own or find someone to do it for you (WITCH I WOULDN'T DO) from the sizeing from the parent case to the fire forming for the wild cat it is all part of reloading.
Flip

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