Wilderness survival rifle thoughts?


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Axel Larson
January 9, 2013, 06:24 PM
I was just wondering what would make a good survival rifle. I think 22lr would be to small for defense and large game hunting but cartridges like 308 and 30 06 would take up more room' meaning you can't carry as much ammunition as possible. Now thinking about this I have decided that 44magnum would be a nice middle ground in either a bolt or semi with iron sights and if possible it would be mighty handy in a sbr with say a 12 to 14 inch barrel, since with 44mag your effective range is not much past one hundred yards.
Anyways whats your thoughts on a rifle for hiking, dog sledding, camping etc? sorry for the long post.

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Zardaia
January 9, 2013, 06:37 PM
Higher calibers would be fine for a planned trip, but that's not really a "survival" situation. Ideal would depend on the situation, but unless I'm facing a high chance of large predators I'd take a .22. Far more ammo, much better suited to small game and with the right shot placement it will take deer.

BHP FAN
January 9, 2013, 06:38 PM
.357 magnum levergun. You can use .38 for squirrel, and .357 magnum for deer, and defense.

Axel Larson
January 9, 2013, 07:03 PM
Take down with a lever action isn't that fun though (for me anyways). Don't get me wrong they are pretty cool rifles but have a few small parts.

d2wing
January 9, 2013, 07:23 PM
A bolt or semi would be longer than needed for a pistol cartridge, although I think Ruger made a nice .44 Carbine. A good quality lever gun might be handy as they are more compact. Why not just carry a scoped pistol?
I can see a compact bolt for reliability though but then I would consider a rifle cartridge.

Alaska444
January 9, 2013, 07:26 PM
Depends of course on where you are trying to survive. If it is grizzly country, then the .44 magnum would be a minimal survival/defense caliber. In reality, a 12 ga or 20 ga with slugs for defense and birdshot for hunting is about as close to a perfect survival gun you could get for the northern woods in bear country.

rcmodel
January 9, 2013, 07:36 PM
Take down with a lever action isn't that fun though (for me anyways).Do you mean take-down for detail cleaning?

Or take-down for stowage in a pack??

If the former, get a Marlin.

You take the lever screw out and shake it and the bolt falls out on the bench.

rc

Unistat
January 9, 2013, 07:57 PM
For just general camping with some small game hunting and plinking, I take my M6 Scout (.22LR/.410 O/U) and my S&W Model 13 .357.

Those two plus the right ammo selection cover anything I'm likely to encounter in Michigan.

Gordon
January 9, 2013, 08:23 PM
Car -15 with 30 or 20 round mags worked for me since 1968.

chuckpro
January 9, 2013, 08:26 PM
For a true survival rifle it would have to be a 22mag. It will take down small to deer sized game and you can carry 500 rounds or more in a bug out bag and survive for a long time. While not a wonderful self defense round it is a stay alive round.

Axel Larson
January 9, 2013, 08:31 PM
Don't get me wrong because I love shotguns. But they are too big and weigh too much for a survival tool and you can't carry as much ammunition compared to a rifle.

justice06rr
January 9, 2013, 08:42 PM
For me, it would have to be an intermediate cartridge rifle at least 223Rem or larger that carries suffiecient ammo for hunting and defense from multiple animals (wolves, boars, etc). Something like a Sig556 or AK47 with a folding stock.

Somehow I would not be comfortable with a 22lr rifle like a Ruger 10/22 Takedown because they cannot take down medium-larger sized animals, although that is another good option for hunting small game.

Skyshot
January 9, 2013, 08:45 PM
It's the one you have with you.

jim243
January 9, 2013, 08:48 PM
You may want to consider a Kel-Tec SU-16C, Nice small profile, folding stock and uses 223 or 5.56 rounds. It will accept AR-15 mags and stores nicely in a pack.

Just a thought.
Jim

hueyville
January 9, 2013, 08:50 PM
.223 turn bolt, magazine fed with polymer folding stock. Easy to pack, reliable, versatile from varmints to medium game.

Alaska444
January 9, 2013, 09:02 PM
.223 turn bolt, magazine fed with polymer folding stock. Easy to pack, reliable, versatile from varmints to medium game.
.223 isn't much against the big game we have here in Northern Idaho and I don't believe that you will have much left of your rabbits for stew. Once again, a shotgun gives you eatable food and survivable defense. Can't go wrong with them and most are no heavier than a lot of rifles. A 6.5 pound 20 ga is a go to gun that with slugs can be a great provider and defender. Throw a sling on it and you are set to go.

Nasty
January 9, 2013, 09:08 PM
Agree with Skyshot...in my case, it's likely be a tiny 9 or very small 45.

If you plan it, it's not survival, just an outing.

srtolly
January 9, 2013, 09:12 PM
Too many variables. Small game is more plentiful, .17HMR or .22 Mag..357 or .44 mag as a backup for the odd bear encounter. If you need food on the table caliber isn't what you should be concerned with. Most survival situations are resolved in a few days by rescue.

Buck Kramer
January 9, 2013, 09:46 PM
Ruger makes a .357/.38 bolt gun if you wanted to entertain the idea of that cartridge without the lever action...

jmr40
January 9, 2013, 10:02 PM
This

http://ruger.com/products/1022Takedown/models.html

and a few 25 round mags

Onmilo
January 9, 2013, 10:19 PM
Real Wilderness?
I would want at least three long guns,

Bolt, lever, or semi in at least .308 caliber
12 guage pump gun
.22 rifle

RPRNY
January 9, 2013, 10:21 PM
Wilderness Survival Rifle. I'm hearing surviving in the wild for a while, not Zombie Apocalypse stuff.

So where is this wilderness? The only animals you REALLY HAVE to be armed against are bears. Yes, mountain lions can get you but there hasn't been a wolf attack on a human in NA for a very long time (let, the stories begin). Are you in Grizzly country or not?

If I'm in Grizzly country, my vote is for a 12 ga S/A. I can defend with slugs, take deer with slugs and take squirrel, rabbit and bird with shot. I can effectively deter coyote, wolf or mountain lion with either.

If I'm in black bear country, I kind of like the pistol caliber lever gun. I like the 30-30 even more. 336 with Skinner sights and bullets from 110gr over Trail Boss for small game to 165 gr FTX over LE for heavy stuff.

The_Armed_Therapist
January 9, 2013, 10:55 PM
I like the idea of either:

22LR
357MAG or
Shotgun

d2wing
January 9, 2013, 11:56 PM
To each his own but why a .44 over a 30-30. The 30-30 has more range, and killed everything on the continent , some to near extinction. I'd rather have .22 lr, and a sturdy revolver .357 or better .44 mag.
A lot depends on where you are, what you plan to eat and what to defend yourself against. Also if you are on foot, or stay in one area. Any reliable gun with enough ammo is useful. You might survive with a good pellet gun but you would need a defense. People lived here thousands of years with bows and arrows all homemade with no metal. 200 years ago most of this country was in the Stone Age.

Mike Sr.
January 10, 2013, 12:08 AM
For me:

---# 1 a stainless rifle.....
---A rifle with the fewest number of working parts.
---open sights
---77/22
---30-30
---357...77/357
---44..77/44
---308 Frontier 16" medium weight barrel
---M70 30-06, with, 22"
---M70 300WinMag, 22"

trickyasafox
January 10, 2013, 12:10 AM
by me in upstate ny, not much that can't be done with a nice 12 gauge. That being said, I'd rather pack a handgun. just easier in my experience.

as the poster specified rifle though- I would look at the CZ bolt gun in 7.62x39. handy, accurate, and a solid medium power cartridge that is much lighter than an SKS or similar.

Mike Sr.
January 10, 2013, 12:12 AM
For me:

---# 1 a stainless rifle.....
---A rifle with the fewest number of working parts.
---Synthetic stock
---open sights
---7600: 308 or 30-06
---77/22
---30-30
---357...77/357
---44..77/44
---308 Frontier 16" medium weight barrel
---M70 30-06, with, 22"
---M70 300WinMag, 22"
-----------------------------

Never an exotic caliber ie...absolutely NO SHort Mags, custom calibers.

panhead58ak
January 10, 2013, 12:12 AM
I always liked the old savage 24 for a cabin gun I have a 22lr over 20 guage its quite a food getter and the 20 guage slug is ok for protection in a bind.You could also get a lot of other calibers 22mag,22hornet,222,223,30-30,and few in 357 over 20guage but 22lr was my choice, cheap and didnt take up to much space

trickyasafox
January 10, 2013, 12:16 AM
by me in upstate ny, not much that can't be done with a nice 12 gauge. That being said, I'd rather pack a handgun. just easier in my experience.

as the poster specified rifle though- I would look at the CZ bolt gun in 7.62x39. handy, accurate, and a solid medium power cartridge that is much lighter than an SKS or similar.

lobo9er
January 10, 2013, 12:17 AM
22 MAG

coupled with A 44 MAG Revolver you are good to go on any continent.

lobo9er
January 10, 2013, 12:20 AM
Fortunately we don't have to choose 1 :)

Kachok
January 10, 2013, 12:33 AM
Bolt action for simplicity and reliability. Stainless steel/synthetic for corrosion/weather resistance, lightweight, accurate, and in a very common civilian/military caliber that is easily capable of taking common game. So for me it would be a Tikka T3 Stainless, Savage 16, or a TC Icon Weathersheild in 308 win with a durable one piece Reaper mounts and a good shockproof scope. It does not get any better then that IMHO

b money
January 10, 2013, 01:39 AM
I think it depends a lot on were you would be surviving. Say if I some how got lost out in the woods in illinois and some how I was out there for a long time, with only what I had, I would take a 22mag because in IL there really is no dangerous game. With proper shot placement and with in close range you could take at white tail but squirrels would be easier to get and you wouldn't blow them apart. Also you could carry tons of ammo over a shotgun(which is about the only reason I picked anything but a 12ga). Now if I was out west with bobcats and bears I would want at least a 243win but better yet a 308 with a variety of bullet weights and styles.

aacider85
January 10, 2013, 01:51 AM
I think I would prefer a Marlin 336 in 30-30. I like iron sights but if you prefer some ghost rings or a long eye relief scout scope then check out XS Sights. (http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=scopemounts&cID=Scope%20Mounts&pID=scopemounts)

Considering that the 30-30 isn't much good past 125 yards or so (generally) a good 4x scout scope is plenty. The Marlin is a good compact rifle that allows quick follow up shots and they are hard to break. Total take down is not super easy in the field but they don't really need it. The caliber is plenty big for white tail and even black bear but not so big that shooting smaller game is a total waste.

Ignition Override
January 10, 2013, 02:01 AM
As jim243 suggested, maybe the Keltec in .223. Very portable and light with some power.

For guys who like .308/Nato 7.62 but don't want to worry about damaging a scope, a Spanish FR8 carbine Mauser is handy and has three aperture sight settings. The offset front post can be rotated higher and adjusted laterally, loosened by a tiny screwdriver, rotated with a $10 sight tool.
The large-ring action makes it much stronger than the FR7's small-ring action.

After the panic bubble deflates, you might see some nice examples again for about $425 on GB etc, Gunboards, Surplusrifle...

Gtscotty
January 10, 2013, 06:48 AM
For a true survival rifle it would have to be a 22mag. It will take down small to deer sized game and you can carry 500 rounds or more in a bug out bag and survive for a long time. While not a wonderful self defense round it is a stay alive round.

My thoughts exactly, in a survival situation, there is not much you couldn't kill around here with a 22 mag. Also, I don't know about yall, but I see/shoot a lot more squirrels than I do deer or hogs; If you're stuck in the woods (for whatever reason) and would like to eat, small game is difinitely your best bet. At the same time, ammo will be light and there are plenty of choices in light rifles for this caliber. I would want such a rifle to be stainless, bolt action and fitted with both Irons and a scope.

tarosean
January 10, 2013, 06:56 AM
^^^ Yep, small game is everywhere, easier to kill and I would never want a magazine on a "survival gun".

bannockburn
January 10, 2013, 08:39 AM
I was thinking maybe a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62X39 would make for a decent choice as a Wilderness survival rifle. It weighs under 6 pounds, is relatively compact with a 18.5" barrel, has a 5 round detachable box magazine, and is chambered in a good all-around use caliber.

DM~
January 10, 2013, 09:57 AM
I've been in REAL wilderness survival situations, out in the Alaskan bush... This has always worked perfectly for me,

http://fototime.com/3307385D2BCD845/standard.jpg

Light, handy and totally reliable! It kept me fed and safe, and i've put tons of meat in my freezer with it!

DM

Revoliver
January 10, 2013, 10:28 AM
I'd grab my 77/357

mdauben
January 10, 2013, 10:35 AM
Anyways whats your thoughts on a rifle for hiking, dog sledding, camping etc? sorry for the long post.

Personally, I think the need for defence against large animals is very much overstated in a survival sitation (unless maybe you are in AK or northern Canada). Likewise, I don't see the need for large game hunting unless you are anticipating long term survival needs in the far wilderness.

I think for by far the greatest percentage of survival situations a .22 rimfire is the best choice. The new Ruger 10/22 Takedown is an obvious choice, as well as the Marlin Papoose, Henry AR-7 or any other take-down .22 rifle. The old Savage 24C .22/20ga take down combo gun would be another possibility, if you can find one at a reasonable price (I know Savage is making a similar Model 42, but its chambered in .410 instead of 20ga and its not a take down, two strikes against it IMO).

jogar80
January 10, 2013, 12:00 PM
I've been in REAL wilderness survival situations, out in the Alaskan bush... This has always worked perfectly for me,

http://fototime.com/3307385D2BCD845/standard.jpg

Light, handy and totally reliable! It kept me fed and safe, and i've put tons of meat in my freezer with it!

DM
That is awesome! I'm curious, how is the point of impact with all three barrels vs. point of aim with the scope?

And... WHAT is it?! I want one

PO2Hammer
January 10, 2013, 12:51 PM
I'll take my CZ 452 Lux in .22 mag for that role.
More power than the .22lr and more range than pistol caliber carbines. Like the .22lr, you can carry lots of ammo without a lot of weight.

PO2Hammer
January 10, 2013, 12:53 PM
Of course if I owned a beautiful drilling like DM~ my answer might be different.

mac66
January 10, 2013, 01:05 PM
Do you really need a gun at all? Probably not. Trapping and fishing are a more efficient means of getting protein than guns. People survived on this planet for 10s of thousands of years before guns were invented.

Having said that I think a 22 lr rifle is just about ideal. It doesn't matter what kind.

jogar80
January 10, 2013, 01:41 PM
Do you really need a gun at all? Probably not. Trapping and fishing are a more efficient means of getting protein than guns.

Trapping is definitely not more efficient..... And I suck at fishing, LOL.

SwampWolf
January 10, 2013, 03:02 PM
Buck Kramer was the first poster to suggest the Ruger's tough and reliable model 77-357 bolt-action rifle and, the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with him. The ammunition is fairly compact and the chambering is versatile (.38 Specials thru full-house .357 Magnum loads). This handy little bolt-action rifle comes with scope rings and open sights; is made from s/s and has a synthetic stock. Put a sling on it, load up a couple of extra magazines and you're good to go. The more I think about it...:uhoh:

Alaska444
January 10, 2013, 03:10 PM
Do you really need a gun at all? Probably not. Trapping and fishing are a more efficient means of getting protein than guns. People survived on this planet for 10s of thousands of years before guns were invented.

Having said that I think a 22 lr rifle is just about ideal. It doesn't matter what kind.
If you watch survivorman and other wilderness reality shows, trapping and fishing in a survival mode is quite often very unreliable especially with primitive equipment. Beside that, a fishing pole isn't much use in a self defense situation.

Once again, give me a shotgun whether 20 ga, 16 ga or 12 ga and you have a very potent hunting and woods defense tool. Couple that with a good hatchet and knife and you will be ahead of the power curve.

USAF_Vet
January 10, 2013, 03:19 PM
Eventually I will get around to picking up another single shot 12 or 20 gauge trimmed down to an 18" barrel, maybe even have it thread for chokes.

I figure a broken down single shot is light weight, doesn't take up a lot if space, is cheap to feed and would compliment my EDC. I keep an emergency 24 hour bag in my car, and a take down single shot would fit in there nicely along a couple boxes of assorted shells.

I figure it would be suitable for anything I'm likely to encounter in West Michigan, and then some.

farscott
January 10, 2013, 03:23 PM
My personal choice was and is a stainless T/C Contender Carbine with two twenty-one inch barrels (.22 LR and .30-30) and the synthetic stock and forend. Both barrels wear the T/C factory rear peep sight and the factory front blade with some green Testors paint. Fully assembled, the .22 rifle weighs about 5.5 pounds.

I would love to have a drilling like DM as it would be a better choice since it allows barrel selection on the fly.

tahunua001
January 10, 2013, 03:42 PM
I am kindof partial to the AR15 in 223 idea. you can carry a 200 rounds of 5.56 in the same amount of space as 100 rounds of 44mag(don't get me wrong 44 mag is far from the least appealing round for survival). in a bind it can be used for deer, black bear, large cats, wolves, coyotes, rabbits, squirrels grouse, turkeys and just about anything else under $300 pounds. I wouldn't want to bring XM193 along or anything but a well constructed soft point and some low velocity FMJ for the tiny critters to preserve meat would be very useful. as is customary in these type of threads you can not live for prolonged periods of time on red meat alone. a book containing pictures and descriptions of local edibles like mushrooms and berries as well as a pocket fishing kit would be necessary to stay in the wild for any prolonged period of time. and for the people that claim that distilled water is bad for you and that you can't live off of it I say you are full of it. I made it through a 7 month deployment on a naval ship drinking nothing but distilled sea water. unless you are planning on spending years out in the wild then there is no problem wit boiling your own water.

lefteyedom
January 10, 2013, 04:21 PM
Biggest issue is to have a weapon when in a "survival situation" and that boils down to weight and ease of carry. The weapon would need to be robust enough to endure rough treatment.

A good quality 22 pistol with 200 rds could keep you fed for a long time. The addition fact that it is very easily to carry seals the deal.

a 16" barrel bolt action rifle with a scope and iron sights,chambered in a 308 class cartridge would cover any other need. 100 rds of ammo would keep you going.

Lastly having both the pistol and rifle thread for the same suppressor would be very useful.

Motega
January 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff.
The thing about a survival (anything) is you actually have to have it with you to be of any use and too often anything that can't be stowed and forgotten about is too easy to leave home.

If you do that much backcountry stuff you ought to have some redundancy anyway, but I just wonder how long a 10 pound rifle would actually be feasible to lug around if you have to traverse any truly rugged terrain. How long till it falls off, sinks, etc.?

I like contemplating these scenarios and preparing for them, but if I ever was really lost I would much rather have a locator beacon for the same $500 a rifle would cost.

Also- stainless is gimmicky IMHO. The stainless guns I've tortured have fared MUCH worse than military parkerized stuff.

Make a list of what you would be most afraid of in a survival situation in your particular field of operations- are you more worried about bears or Meth labs? Swamps or cold? Go from there maybe?

Robtattoo
January 10, 2013, 05:33 PM
I'll take my Henry .22 thanks. Minute of squirrel accurate at 50yds, light enough, quick pointing, fast follow up shots & 21 rounds of .22 short.
At bowhunting ranges, a .22 in the head is a quick kill on pretty much anything that ain't a bear or buff, whether it has 4 legs or only 2.

What's not to like about a caliber that you can get 1000 of in your pocket! :D

GCBurner
January 10, 2013, 05:35 PM
I took my Charter Arms AR-7 out to the range this afternoon, and tried it with a variety of .22LR ammo, standard velocity Remington, Federal HP, CCI Blazer solids, and CCI Match. It functioned reliably with all of them, but from a rest, I couldn't get any of them to group any tighter than about three inches at 25 yards, and all the groups were about 2 inches to the right of the point of aim. I need a sight pusher to adjust the front sight for the windage, since the rear receiver sight only slides up and down.

VA27
January 10, 2013, 05:50 PM
M1 Carbine. As light and handy as a 22. Ammo not too bulky. Soft points for deer-sized game. FMJ for everything else.

DM~
January 10, 2013, 07:14 PM
That is awesome! I'm curious, how is the point of impact with all three barrels vs. point of aim with the scope?

And... WHAT is it?! I want one

The rifles/shotgun is regulated VERY well to the sights, the scope goes on or off in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back to being sighted in perfectly.

It breaks down for easy storage or travel,

http://fototime.com/EED0D1139B4F1A4/standard.jpg

It's VERY accurate,

http://fototime.com/E062CFA713535EF/standard.jpg

And has been a pleasure to own and hunt with over the last 25 + years i've owned it. Working perfectly on extended hunts in the bush, putting huge amounts of meat in my freezer,

http://fototime.com/71D5748CCA76B2C/standard.jpg

It's a Krieghoff Semper...

DM

Alaska444
January 10, 2013, 07:29 PM
The rifles/shotgun is regulated VERY well to the sights, the scope goes on or off in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back to being sighted in perfectly.

It breaks down for easy storage or travel,

http://fototime.com/EED0D1139B4F1A4/standard.jpg

It's VERY accurate,

http://fototime.com/E062CFA713535EF/standard.jpg

And has been a pleasure to own and hunt with over the last 25 + years i've owned it. Working perfectly on extended hunts in the bush, putting huge amounts of meat in my freezer,

http://fototime.com/71D5748CCA76B2C/standard.jpg

It's a Krieghoff Semper...

DM
Can't get any better than that for a survival rifle. I wonder if I could survive the sticker shock on it though? LOL

RetiredUSNChief
January 10, 2013, 07:36 PM
What are you trying to survive?

A post-apocalyptic, para-military bad-guy dominated scenario?

A zombie abocalypse?

Or general wilderness survival?

General, honest-to-God wilderness survival rarely needs anything more than a .22. I'd choose either the .22LR or, if more power is desired, the .22WMR.

Under survival conditions, small game is very likely the best choice for food. Large game represents larger quantities of meat that may well spoil under typical survival conditions, long before the majority can be consumed.

And don't let anybody out there tell you that you cannot take larger game with a .22, most especially the .22WMR. Yes, it's not nearly so well suited as the high powered rifles for that, but in a pinch it'll do the job.

For me, I'd go with a Marlin 783 bolt action .22WMR. (My first rifle.) Or something very similar. I can carry/stock plenty of ammunition, far more than for a high powered rifle.


Now, that said, everybody's gonna have their opinions and their favorites. Nothing wrong with that. Especially if it'll do the job they envision for their survival situation.

:):)

hueyville
January 10, 2013, 07:50 PM
Only about 3% (and I am probably giving them credit) of the population could probably actually survive in the wildreness no matter how many rifles you give them. Might find a few here but how many folks left that can triangulate their position on a map with a compass when the GPS satellites quite broadcasting signal? And a hundred and one other lesser know skills these days? I plan on living out of the pockets of the bloated corpses.

gazpacho
January 10, 2013, 08:39 PM
Single shot 12ga shotgun with a 22lr insert.

A pocket full of 22lr, 3 slugs, 3 buck and 6 fowl would keep me happy for a long time.

jeepnik
January 10, 2013, 10:07 PM
For a couple of decades I carried an AR-7 in my Jeep. I was perfectly happy and it served it's uses well.

Then I had an incident involving two legged critters that made me wish for something more. But, I still wanted something that was compact and easily stored in the half cab of my CJ-8.

I finally modified an old Mossberg 500, .410 shotgun. I had an old barrel shortened and recrowned. I took off the original buttstock and got a youth stock. Then I modified the stock bolt by lengthening it and putting a cross bar on the end so it could be tightened and loosed without tools. I removed the screws from the buttcap and installed heavy duty velcro.

It's only about a bit longer than the AR-7 taken down, and assembles about as fast.

With a selection of shot sizes and slugs, it's much more capable on critters both four and two legged.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Jeepnik/GUNS/JEEPGUNS5.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Jeepnik/GUNS/JEEPGUNS4.jpg

It might not be for everyone, but for my desert running it just about perfect.

Unistat
January 10, 2013, 10:19 PM
The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff...

You are conflating the AR-7 semi-auto take down .22lr with the M6 Scout folding .22/.410 O/U.

USAF_Vet
January 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
The air force issue(s)(d) an AR-7 , .22 with a .410 over/under in some cases I think. It floats, it's light, it kills stuff.

The Air Force hasn't issued anything like that in years.
Mostly it's an M-16/M-4 or an M-9 for pilots and flight crews.

Malamute
January 10, 2013, 10:42 PM
There isnt much wilderness to survive in.

It very much depends on what you're talking about. Going (intentionally) to live in some semi-wild corner to try to make it by foraging? Getting lost/stuck with a broken leg somewhere while hunting or backpack vacationing? End of civilized times?

I think most are thinking WAY too much ammo. Calvin Rutstrum used to spend 6 months at a time in the bush, and figured 20 rds of 30-30 or 1 50 rd box of 22's (depending on area and what was practical to hunt) was plenty for that period to feed himself and at times his dog team with.

I'm out and about in the fringes of one of the larger wild areas left in the lower 48. I take a handful of small game loads for my rifle when I'm out (I always have a rifle with me) and figure I could get along on small game for a short while if I fell down and broke a leg back in somewhere, or a deer or whatever if need be. Virtually nobody would be looking for me, I never tell anyone where I go, or even that I'm going. I'm not planning on trying to live out there for an extended period, just make meat if I got stuck until I could get out.

Axel Larson
January 11, 2013, 12:18 AM
I had thought about it when rereading some Gary Paulson and how when you have dogs you can attract some unwanted attention from bear or moose. Plus because of the weather he mention being stuck out for a few days more than planed.

Alaska444
January 11, 2013, 12:23 AM
There isnt much wilderness to survive in.

It very much depends on what you're talking about. Going (intentionally) to live in some semi-wild corner to try to make it by foraging? Getting lost/stuck with a broken leg somewhere while hunting or backpack vacationing? End of civilized times?

I think most are thinking WAY too much ammo. Calvin Rutstrum used to spend 6 months at a time in the bush, and figured 20 rds of 30-30 or 1 50 rd box of 22's (depending on area and what was practical to hunt) was plenty for that period to feed himself and at times his dog team with.

I'm out and about in the fringes of one of the larger wild areas left in the lower 48. I take a handful of small game loads for my rifle when I'm out (I always have a rifle with me) and figure I could get along on small game for a short while if I fell down and broke a leg back in somewhere, or a deer or whatever if need be. Virtually nobody would be looking for me, I never tell anyone where I go, or even that I'm going. I'm not planning on trying to live out there for an extended period, just make meat if I got stuck until I could get out.
I grew up in Alaska where that was the reality and I live in Northern Idaho where that is the reality of hunting. In fact, Northern Idaho in some ways is a more rugged terrain than most of the places I was at in Alaska.

Fortunately, there are still many places in this great nation where you can easily get lost and in a wilderness survival situation. In fact, just outside of Palm Springs, a couple got lost only a few miles from the city while up in the San Jacinto mountains. The surprising twist to this story is that they were saved by the materials found in an abandoned campsite from a man that came into that same valley and could not get out. He died and they were able to start a fire that brought forest service helicopter because of the smoke seen near Palm Springs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-1605893.html

No, there are many places where you don't have to stray far from civilization to find yourself in trouble.

armoredman
January 11, 2013, 12:37 AM
My choice is this,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527Mlighter.jpg

CZ 527M 7.62x39mm, weighs less than 6 pounds, very accurate with a good hard hitting medium range round. It has iron sights and the capability of a scope, but I like the ruggedness of irons, myself. Detachable magazine holds five, (can't get MecGar interested in making a ten rounder for it yet, darn), and is a joy to carry and shoot
Having said that, she's getting a new custom stock made right now, pillarde and bedded, and will have a "survival" twist a lot of people will either love and laugh at. We'll see, be another few months before it's done.
Until then, my "go to" rifle remains the vz-58, even though it is far heavier and bulkier - it's what I have. ;)

HorseSoldier
January 11, 2013, 01:15 AM
Up here in AK, I'm with Alaska444's sentiments. If I can only have one gun in a survival situation, a shotgun with some slugs for bear defense and some shot for birds and bunnies. As a plus, the slugs would work if the situation warranted shooting big game for food and a moose or deer (depending on part of the state) was obliging enough to wander in range.

Chris-bob
January 11, 2013, 01:51 AM
.22Mag would be my choice.

Alaska444
January 11, 2013, 01:57 AM
Thanks HorseSoldier, you are truly a brilliant man. I couldn't agree more.:D

-v-
January 11, 2013, 02:18 AM
I like contemplating these scenarios and preparing for them, but if I ever was really lost I would much rather have a locator beacon for the same $500 a rifle would cost. I'd go with the exact same thing in the lower-48. Alaska is its own unique ball of wax. I might toss in a light weight .22lr pistol and a dry box of 50 round of .22lr, but even then that's of questionable use if your only goal is to get un-lost. A flare gun might be more useful then a .22.

Now, roughing it, and living off the land? I'd go with a good scoped .22lr pistol. I don't plan to make jerky or haul around a solar-powered fridge, so I'm questioning the value of taking a medium-large animal, since how are you going to preserve that? A squirrel is 1-2lb of meat - enough for a meal. Add to that they are everywhere in the woods.

If this was part of a plane crash or truck kit, I think a 12ga or some other shotgun is not a bad idea either. I'm rather impartial to 20ga youth models for their size and weight.

lefteyedom
January 11, 2013, 04:13 AM
I love these conversation, if we just had a pot-belly stove and some AppleJack ...

Alaska444
January 11, 2013, 04:27 PM
I'd go with the exact same thing in the lower-48. Alaska is its own unique ball of wax. I might toss in a light weight .22lr pistol and a dry box of 50 round of .22lr, but even then that's of questionable use if your only goal is to get un-lost. A flare gun might be more useful then a .22.

Now, roughing it, and living off the land? I'd go with a good scoped .22lr pistol. I don't plan to make jerky or haul around a solar-powered fridge, so I'm questioning the value of taking a medium-large animal, since how are you going to preserve that? A squirrel is 1-2lb of meat - enough for a meal. Add to that they are everywhere in the woods.

If this was part of a plane crash or truck kit, I think a 12ga or some other shotgun is not a bad idea either. I'm rather impartial to 20ga youth models for their size and weight.
I don't see a whole lot of difference between Alaska and MT/ID/WY areas where we have big grizzlies, black bears and large moose. I will concede that a .22LR is a great choice for survival food, but I would want my Ruger SRH .44 Magnum strapped to my side for all of the other stuff you can run into. That would actually be a good combination.

T.R.
January 11, 2013, 04:50 PM
Dan'l Boone wintered in the Kentucky wilderness with a flintlock rifle in 45 caliber. He did OK. A modern camper can surpass his firepower with a Mossberg pump shotgun and changeable choke tubes. The rifled barrel produces amazing accuracy with sabot ammunition well out to 125 yards or so but 12 gauge recoil is really quite brutal.

I read about a Surveyor in Alaska that carried a Remington pump action rifle in 30-06 for a couple decades of wandering the remote places. He did OK, too.

Years ago, I knew a shepard who raised his flocks in the rugged and remote portions in Bighorn Mts. of nothern Wyoming. He carried a German surplus Mauser in 8mm. Pedro did OK, too.

The most important element of survival is adjusting the "nut" behind the buttplate.
TR

mac66
January 11, 2013, 04:53 PM
point of order....:D

The USAF force never used or issued the Ar7. They have issued a number of survival rifles in years past but the Ar7 was not one of them. Unfortunately companies like to mislead the public to believe they are getting some sort of Military issue weapon but they are not. The Ar7 as marketed by ArmaLite in 1959 was the semi auto derivative of the 22 Hornet caliber bolt action Ar5 survival rifle adopted by the AF in 1956.

The Ar7 is cool little rifle.

ROCK6
January 12, 2013, 08:47 AM
These are always fun hypothetical situations. Sure, the location has a significant impact on such a scenario as does the individual’s skill and ability to survive in such a location regardless of the firearm.

There are plenty of real-world stories where people have been put in such situations and survived without a firearm. I personally “believe in having and not needing” vice “needing and not having”. Additionally most experts say that survival is more of a mental struggle than a struggle against the elements. Having a firearm for many (including me) is more of a morale booster when I’m outdoors; maybe not necessary, but a significant factor in creating peace of mind…still without skill they really might actually have to pry that gun from my cold, dead fingers with rigor mortis and a frozen smile on my face:D

USRSOG is an expert group of trainers with a focus more on military escape and evasion training. Their preferred method of such a firearm is a .22LR semi-auto pistol with some type of optic; compact, quick follow up shots and more than accurate for the majority of small game.

I would still consider packing along a compact fishing kit and some small-game snares as “real” survival is about maximizing your odds and taking advantage of every opportunity. Firearms are often dedicated “active” methods of bagging game. Trot lines and snares are often more effective and are passive methods which allow individuals to multi-task and increase their economy of efforts. Still, a firearm is a great tool for opportunity hunting and given the fact small game is often more prevalent, I see small caliber rifles (or pistols) are adequately effective.

My classic woods bumming gun is the Savage Model 24 Camper, .22LR over 20-gauge. I really like the 20-gauge as you can carry much more effective shells but still pack a lot .22LR for most hunting needs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/DSC04213.jpg

Marlin Papoose, M6 Scout and Taurus Model 62, take-down:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/RangeDay-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/RangeDay-2.jpg

I actually think the Marlin Papoose is a very good choice, but my favorite, despite the weight, is the M6 Scout. Mine is the .22LR over the .410 with an added Trijicon Reflex sight. I’ve had success on fowl and small game out to 25-30 yards. I even killed a 50 pound beaver with it. It’s not perfect as I mentioned, it is heavy for its size; it doesn’t shoot .410 slugs very well (at least in my M6) and many complain about the funky trigger. Despite those, it’s very accurate for the .22LR and more than adequate for bird shot and buckshot in the .410; the action is very simple and robust.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/DSC03172-1_zps7dcacde1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/DSC03173.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/ROCK-6/Firearms/DSC03174.jpg


If I was anywhere near an area with serious large predator threats, I would be packing a .44 Mag or similar large caliber pistol if I didn't have a high-caliber hunting rifle. I backpack, kayak and mountain bike with a Glock 23 .40 S&W with a mag full of 200 gr. Hardcast ammo. Add your other outdoors essentials and your preferred rifle, the only other survival need would be practiced skill.

ROCK6

Old judge creek
January 12, 2013, 03:40 PM
I've spent time in the jungles of a couple of Central American countries, in the Alaskan bush, and the Yukon.

In Alaska, I pack a S&W 629 Trail Boss on my hip and carry a Marlin 45-70 Guide gun. Pot meat was supplied by my Ruger 10/22 magnum on one trip and my Taurus M72 22 magnum on another.

For survival foraging in either Alaska or Central America, I could have done well with either my Ruger 10/22 mag or my Taurus M72 mag.

A well placed 22 magnum will drop any New World wildcat in its tracks. The only critters I'm truly wary of in the bush are either two legged, feral canines, California's wild boar, or big ol' BEARS. The latter two will go the other way almost every time unless you challenge them. OTOH: The first two are sometimes unpredictable and can be very aggressive.

Shotgun ammo is too "mass-y" to pack for survival. If I were to choose a rifle/handgun combo it'd be my S&W Trail Boss paired with a Trapper length lever action rifle. I carry this combo a lot in the High Sierras and in the high desert south of my Ranch. But then, 44 mag ammo is bulky and heavy too.

A 357 combo would suffice in most of the lower 48 I've ever been in.

gp911
January 12, 2013, 07:31 PM
In my collection I'd feel well-served by my Nylon 66 as it's accurate, reliable, and has a high rate-of-fire if I encountered a two-legged attacker or two. (No real bear problem in my area). My Savage 24 in .22WMR/.410 would work as well.

DM, you got this question licked.

enine
January 12, 2013, 09:12 PM
AR 7 is mine, I've added an Otis cleaning cable and cleaner and oil in the cap
.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn275/eugenenine/Misc/2012-11-15_15-45-45_303.jpg

Hotshot10
January 12, 2013, 10:47 PM
I backpack somewhat frequently. I have no idea what my answer to this question would be, but I know for certain that it would have to be really light. And I wouldn't be carrying hundreds of rounds of centerfire rifle ammunition, either.

DM~
January 14, 2013, 05:03 PM
DM, you got this question licked.

Thanks... It just keeps on, keeping on!

http://fototime.com/1605B37465F21D6/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/5BF6061644E21E4/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/39A469F568D04CF/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/C8EA6F979F7FAAE/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/FB04F29E9C9ACE3/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/FCA4029ABA44E24/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/CED0CCDA9508B28/standard.jpg

Even my friends love it!! lol

http://fototime.com/BF4EAEEAFA9B449/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/11DE630CADAA16A/standard.jpg

DM

chicharrones
January 14, 2013, 06:50 PM
Nice set of photos, DM! :cool:

Alaska444
January 14, 2013, 08:24 PM
You have outdone us all DM. I Can't compete with this true survival rifle which is really unfair competition to have a three in one survival/hunting/defense rifle. :what: Really great concept, I wish I could afford one as well.:D

shafter
January 14, 2013, 08:39 PM
Ruger 10/22 takedown.

Axel Larson
January 14, 2013, 10:57 PM
I had a chance to hold a drilling recently two 16 gauge and one rifle forget what. Anyways it was awesome but I did not have 1200 on me at the time.

DM~
January 14, 2013, 11:06 PM
I bought it in the early 80's for $350.00, of course it didn't look like it does now as i've rebuilt it into what i knew i wanted my "go to gun" to be like. That's ever since i saw my first drilling, it was in an old "Shooters Bible" my dad had when i was a kid. I knew right then i'd have a drilling one day!

Even with what i've put into it since buying it, it's nothing compared to what it's given back to me over all the years i've owned it!

One time i was going along and a coyote came out into the only spot that the sun was shineing through the clouds. At what i estimated to be a bit over 300 yards, i snapped the scope into place, got a good solid rest and put a 200NP through his ribs...

BTW, the last 28 kills i've made on big game, have all been one shot kills...

DM

Alaska444
January 14, 2013, 11:12 PM
I bought it in the early 80's for $350.00, of course it didn't look like it does now as i've rebuilt it into what i knew i wanted my "go to gun" to be like. That's ever since i saw my first drilling, it was in an old "Shooters Bible" my dad had when i was a kid. I knew right then i'd have a drilling one day!

Even with what i've put into it since buying it, it's nothing compared to what it's given back to me over all the years i've owned it!

One time i was going along and a coyote came out into the only spot that the sun was shineing through the clouds. At what i estimated to be a bit over 300 yards, i snapped the scope into place, got a good solid rest and put a 200NP through his ribs...

BTW, the last 28 kills i've made on big game, have all been one shot kills...

DM
Come on DM, you are starting to hurt us now. LOL:evil:

Ratshooter
January 15, 2013, 12:48 AM
Where I live I don't have any bears to worry about so a big bore gun isn't high on my list of wilderness guns. I like the 22 mag round and like what these guys did to an in expensive marlin bolt gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGeZYqMQ7gw

If i ever get one of these for a decent price I may shorten the barrel like they did.

But my first pick for a wilderness rifle would be my Marlin levergun in 357 magnum. Its the most versital gun I own. Especialy if i can have my molds and handloading rig. Paired with a shotgun I could get by from now on in the hunting department. It makes a decent SD rifle too.

Alaska444
January 15, 2013, 01:01 AM
I don't know, I think with those larger than life tarantulas a big bore might be useful in TX as well.:evil:

mnrivrat
January 15, 2013, 06:35 AM
Another chance to show my Savage Customized model 24V.

Upper barrel is .223 Rem (modified from .222) , lower is 20ga with screw in choke tube .
I have a cartridge adaptor to shoot 22 rimfire from the top barrel, and have a spare rifled choke tube to shoot 20ga sabot slugs. Standard choke is IC for bird shot or rifled slugs.
Storage inside the butt, and inside the forearm.
Barrels are tuned to same POI at about 30yds . Bake coat finish on metal , durable wheel paint on stocks. Butt plate and grip cap are 1/4" aluminum plate.

Ratshooter
January 15, 2013, 01:28 PM
I don't know, I think with those larger than life tarantulas a big bore might be useful in TX as well.

I have several big bores but I would never hurt a Tarantula. I like playing with them. It freaks people out when I pick them up. Those suckers have some fangs on them too. I hope I never get bit by one.:uhoh:

SwampWolf
January 15, 2013, 02:39 PM
I like the sound and feel of a tarantula being crunched under my boot. Of course my boots have high tops. :eek:

jogar80
January 15, 2013, 03:23 PM
I like the sound and feel of a tarantula being crunched under my boot. Of course my boots have high tops. :eek:

Eeesh... I cant stand the crunch....tarantulas, roaches, scorpions.... I have to drop something on them, LOL

Cee Zee
January 16, 2013, 07:24 AM
If I was planning a jaunt in the wilderness I'd take a good and light .22 that was uber reliable. That would either mean my Stevens 15-A (light and reliable for the next 150 years) or my Marlin 60SS (light enough and reliable enough as long as I have a cleaning brush with me and a screwdriver to take the rifle apart). Both could provide me with plenty of food.

For SD against critters no matter how many legs they walk on, I'd carry a good sidearm like my S&W 629 with an 8.5" barrel. It's accurate enough to hit a man at 175 yards and powerful enough for most critters in N. America although I wouldn't want to confront a big bear with it by choice. But I carry it for protection against smaller bears. I wouldn't need a lot of ammo for the .44 magnum (the 629) but I could carry a good bit of ammo for the .22. I could be talked into taking one of several different .22's that I own. I might even consider taking a 12 ga. if I wasn't going far. But I'd be prepared for collecting food in other ways like having the ability to build a fish trap (very effective wherever there are fish) or just a trot line (harder to deal with than a trap). I would also brush up on the local vegetation. I know that subject in the area I live. BTW don't think you can show up in my woods and support yourself. You won't like how I deal with you. Too many people have it in their head that any woods outside the city is wide open for hunting. It isn't. Anyone trying to poach on my land is going to be driven off quickly. Remember I know that land like the back of my hand. You don't.

Art Eatman
January 16, 2013, 12:09 PM
Don't sweat it, CeeZee. I really doubt that your land is wilderness. :)

The thread is "wilderness survival", remember? :D It's about what we would do, not what they would do. Us, not them.

srtolly
January 16, 2013, 12:56 PM
Another chance to show my Savage Customized model 24V.

Upper barrel is .223 Rem (modified from .222) , lower is 20ga with screw in choke tube .
I have a cartridge adaptor to shoot 22 rimfire from the top barrel, and have a spare rifled choke tube to shoot 20ga sabot slugs. Standard choke is IC for bird shot or rifled slugs.
Storage inside the butt, and inside the forearm.
Barrels are tuned to same POI at about 30yds . Bake coat finish on metal , durable wheel paint on stocks. Butt plate and grip cap are 1/4" aluminum plate.

I like that. Been thinking of something similar for myself. BTW, I like the username. My widest grandfather was referred to as the Minnesota River Rat back in the day in Shakopee. I remember before my wife and I got married 25 years ago seeing catfish skulls nailed up on the shed that were huge. I miss the old guy.

dcarch
January 17, 2013, 01:30 AM
Ruger 10/22 takedown. No question about it. Light, compact, accurate, reliable, good iron sights (because how long will that expensive scope REALLY last in a survival situation) lots of aftermarket accessories, and cheap, easily portable ammo. What's not to love?

dcarch
January 17, 2013, 01:33 AM
Another chance to show my Savage Customized model 24V.

Upper barrel is .223 Rem (modified from .222) , lower is 20ga with screw in choke tube .
I have a cartridge adaptor to shoot 22 rimfire from the top barrel, and have a spare rifled choke tube to shoot 20ga sabot slugs. Standard choke is IC for bird shot or rifled slugs.
Storage inside the butt, and inside the forearm.
Barrels are tuned to same POI at about 30yds . Bake coat finish on metal , durable wheel paint on stocks. Butt plate and grip cap are 1/4" aluminum plate.

That may be the most Mad-Max-esque gun I've ever seen. Love it! If a company sold that as a production gun, I'd be on it like flies on a cowpie in July.

hipoint
January 17, 2013, 02:14 AM
combo gun like DM seems to have... although for me, I like my .22 mag and it would be the one I grabbed... you can shoot it and people won't hear it for miles around, I have killed LOADS of deer with both my .22 mag and .22 long rifle here on the farm (extermination, not "hunting"). I have lost a couple from the regular .22 long rifle even on head shots, never lost one with the .22 mag...

.22 mag won't destroy a squirrel and that's probably most of what you'll be eating, yet will take a deer no problem. I just like the noise factor though.

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 07:31 AM
combo gun like DM seems to have... although for me, I like my .22 mag and it would be the one I grabbed... you can shoot it and people won't hear it for miles around, I have killed LOADS of deer with both my .22 mag and .22 long rifle here on the farm (extermination, not "hunting"). I have lost a couple from the regular .22 long rifle even on head shots, never lost one with the .22 mag...

.22 mag won't destroy a squirrel and that's probably most of what you'll be eating, yet will take a deer no problem. I just like the noise factor though.

Having put several thousands of rounds through my Marlin 783 .22 magnum, I'd have to say that, while not on the level of a high powered rifle, the sound of it does carry quite a distance...and when target shooting, being anywhere forward of the muzzle plane when it's shot is akin to having a spike driven in your ear if you should be dumb enough not to have hearing protection "just because it's a .22".

(Voice of experience here...)

And while it is true you won't destroy a squirrel with a head or neck shot, a gut shot with a .22 mag hollowpoint won't leave very many parts still attached.

(Also voice of experience here...)

:p

DM~
January 17, 2013, 09:06 AM
combo gun like DM seems to have... although for me, I like my .22 mag and it would be the one I grabbed... you can shoot it and people won't hear it for miles around, I have killed LOADS of deer with both my .22 mag and .22 long rifle here on the farm (extermination, not "hunting"). I have lost a couple from the regular .22 long rifle even on head shots, never lost one with the .22 mag...

.22 mag won't destroy a squirrel and that's probably most of what you'll be eating, yet will take a deer no problem. I just like the noise factor though.

Then you should like my "go to gun" even more, because it's both, a 22LR and a 22WMR, as i have both slide in insert bbls for the right shot bbl.

These are precision made inserts, NOT the junk sold today that mostly just go bang! And, these slide in bbls shoot as accurate as a decent 22 rifle. You can unlock and take one out in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back to being sighted in when you reinstall it.

VERY handy and work perfectly...

BTW, i don't shoot deer with underpowered weapons for the reason you stated! You loose one once in a while, and all they do is suffer!!

DM

Cee Zee
January 17, 2013, 05:30 PM
Don't sweat it, CeeZee. I really doubt that your land is wilderness.

Ah but some of it is wilderness. :) I bought old growth forest land to build my house on. The timber had not been cut for about 150 years. It had the full canopy and all going. I ended up cutting about half of it because the oaks were all dying from oak wilt disease. There just wasn't any sense watching all that money fall over and die. But my land is surrounded by a national forest on all sides except one direction. The forest covers hundreds of square miles.

Now the farm isn't so wild any more but we farmed all that when I was a kid anyway. Even there we were collecting about 5 tree stands a year on our property for about a decade after they put in the "land development" up the creek from the farm. Yeah right. More like a cheesy ripoff scam selling tiny lots to anyone with enough money for a camper from the 1950's. All those people thought they could hunt the surrounding woods too. Except the surrounding woods was our farm. They got sent on their merry way by the game warden eventually with a little motivation by us of course.

But the land where my house is has been invaded by hunters way more than once. They're been chased off more than once too. :)

So I have sort of a sore spot when it comes to people poaching on my land. I don't mind them hiking there or even the occasional ATV but hunting is another story. Heck my grandmother would have gotten the shotgun out for those ATV guys. She always worried about forest fires and for good reason. But ATV's don't really seem to start fires that I can tell.

At any rate I don't mind my friends and neighbors hunting our land if they ask. But to just show up and start taking game is really pushing it.

I realize we're talking wilderness survival here as in the great north woods and all that. I just like to remind folks that when Black Friday comes (the bad one - not the day after Thanksgiving) it may not be such a good idea to set up shop on someone's property. I've seen squatters and poachers my whole like I guess. It just shouldn't work that way.

But for a price I'll set up a "shoot all you can shoot" park. And if the slickers start shooting each other well that's what the release form is all about. :D

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 07:35 PM
As if it's all that hard to ask permission to hunt on someone's property in the first place.

Growing up, this is what people did. Of course, there was usually a name drop involved...that you were so-and-so's kid or something like that.

But even so, most farmers I asked didn't have a problem. They'd point out where the houses, barns, and livestock were so you knew which direction not to shoot in and let you know if there was any place you should be careful of then wish you luck.

I can't tell you how much squirrel and rabbit I've taken that way.

:):)

Seanxlu
January 17, 2013, 08:34 PM
Bolt action for simplicity and reliability. Stainless steel/synthetic for corrosion/weather resistance, lightweight, accurate, and in a very common civilian/military caliber that is easily capable of taking common game. So for me it would be a Tikka T3 Stainless, Savage 16, or a TC Icon Weathersheild in 308 win with a durable one piece Reaper mounts and a good shockproof scope. It does not get any better then that IMHO
+1 on Tikka T3 Lite.

Got one in .308 and love it. Stainless steel, polymer furniture and a Nikon Monarch scope. More accurate than me for sure.

conrad427
January 17, 2013, 09:20 PM
I dont understand. How do you plan for wilderness survival? If you are in need of survival you probably did not have a gun in the first place. If you thought you might need a survival weapon you should replan your trip. Otherwise bring your best hunting rifle. That way you are sure you brought enough gun.

Cee Zee
January 17, 2013, 09:24 PM
As if it's all the hard to ask permission to hunt on someone's property in the first place.

I don't remember ever turning anyone down that asked. It's those guys that setup on the hill above your house with a stand pointing right in the direction of your house not more than 150 yards away that I don't care much for. The "I didn't know there was a house there" routine doesn't get it with me. They sure as heck knew they didn't ask for permission to hunt there although it's usually something like "Joe told me I could hunt here on his property. He pointed right here from the road." And of course my name isn't Joe. The road is a quarter of a mile away. He would have had to point right at my house to put them where they were. And they had to see my house from where they were setup. The morons actually think that because they have to use a slug gun to hunt deer the slugs won't reach that far I guess (150 yards). Argghhh! This is why I don't like people who show up and don't bother asking.

Malamute
January 19, 2013, 01:12 PM
sorry, but the "best hunting rifle" is not likely, at all, to hack it. How many can handle both small and large game, and defensive shooting as well? How many are concealable in a backpack, so that you can hitch a ride? :-) HOw many are easily taken down and cleaned in the field? How many have a flashhider, so your night adapted vision isn't gone with the first shot, and so that the rifling ends are protected? How many hunting rifles have return to zero scope bases, see thru scope mounts, luminous sight inserts,iron sights that are protected from breakage by being dropped, struck while climbing/rappelling, etc?

All can handle small and large game when one loads some small game loads. I shoot grouse, squirrels and bunnies with 30-30, 348 and 45-70 just fine.

Defensive from what? Most decent hunting rifles are in better calibers for shooting anything you'd need to protect yourself from in "wilderness" than "defensive" rifles (I'm making the wild assumption that that's what your post implied) Most sporters in serious calibers are also easier to carry, lighter than similar caliber self loaders. My impression of every self loader I've carried (other than a Car-15) was that they were clunky, bulky, awkward to carry things compared to sporters. Maybe I was doing it wrong. I mostly carry a rifle in hand when out in the hills. The Car-15 was still bulkier than a Winchester 94, despite being short and light, and not nearly as handy to carry over time. The 94 is also chambered in a better round for general field use and hunting. Short, like the Car-15, or a folder AK does not automatically translate into handy or not bulky. The short, light bolt guns are likely the best general purpose field guns, with the levers not far behind, with the levers perhaps coming out ahead for a summer carry gun where more carry than shooting is the general rule.

All I've had can be simply cleaned in the field. No need to take most aprt for any reason, but the bolt comes out of a bolt action pretty easily. Never had the need or desire to take a Winchester apart in the field, they are easy toc lean by simply opening the action. Nothing to lose that way either.

Anywhere there's much in the way or wilderness shouldnt present much problem catching a ride with a long gun. I may be spoiled where I live tho. If you're catchinga ride, the "survival" part is pretty well past.

If you're shooting after dark, a light helps quite a lot. Never cared for muzzle widgets of any sort. Most make the muzzle blast far worse, which to me is a far more serious detriment than a muzzle flash. The crown on a barrel is intended to protect the muzzle. I've carried rifles in all sort of wild country for many years and never had a serious issue with the muzzle getting seriously damaged.

Some return scopes to zero alright, but I rarely ever take the scope off. If I do, its because it was damaged, and I'll take it off and use the irons. Scopes add a LOT of useful shooting time in the morning and evening, and moonlight, and regardless of how well one can shoot on black bullseye targets with irons, glass is far easier to hit with on animals in the field under various conditions. I'm happy with the glass on for the most part. I suppose if one really wanted detachable glass, there are mounts available that should accomplish that goal, regardless of action type.


Rapelling? No, I guess most sporters sights aren't that well adapted to rapelling. You got me there. That activity isn't part of my wilderness outdoors experience, so its pretty far down the list of priorities for me.

Malamute
January 19, 2013, 01:36 PM
Yes, obviously I haven't a clue. My apologies for cluttering up this thread.

Please, do tell us your qualifications? You've obviously spent quite a lot of time in wild places experiencing the sort of things described.

Art Eatman
January 19, 2013, 02:29 PM
Malamute, go Google for "Hardin" or "Gunkid". :D

Five pages oughta be enough for now. Gotta remember that there is no "One size fits all" in "survival". Many different scenarios exist.

Food-only is not the same as defense against bears or people, etc, etc.

Go away and think about it. Review the comments in the thread. Feel free to ask further questions in a new thread if you feel the need.

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