112-Grain Surplus


January 9, 2013, 10:51 PM

I was looking around at what .308/7.62x51 might be available these days and found some 112-Grain Spanish Mil-Surp. My first thought was that they might not cycle well in a semi-auto rifle b/c of not quite enough power. (I don't know the details of how this works... but know that sub-sonic rounds tend to jam in my 10/22. I'm assuming it's because of not fully-cylcing the action.) But then I noticed that this ammo is advertised as having been made specifically for the HK CETME/G3. I thought this was an interesting coincidence since I would be shooting this from a PTR91.

Does anybody have experience shooting these loads? Even more specifically, does anybody have any experience shooting them from the HK rifles? Any additional insights into what can be expected? I have it sighted in for 150-grain loads; will these significantly alter POI?

I'm pretty tired, and am having some trouble organizing my thoughts. I hope this made sense. LOL

Thanks for the help,


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January 9, 2013, 11:29 PM
Hmm i do belive that is 7.62cetme, the low powered cousin of the 7.62x51, someone with more time to find the knowledge will input.

January 10, 2013, 12:18 AM
Care to share where you found this stuff? I am in the process of acquiring a PTR-91 and would love to have any kind of ammo to feed it.

January 10, 2013, 12:32 AM
The Spanish wanted a lower recoil round than the full power 7.62 NATO for rifle use, maybe to make full-auto fire from an assault rifle controllable . Their LMG had provision with different bolts for both the light load and the full power NATO round.

Since the CETME action depends on a certain balance of pressure and recoil to function, I would doubt that this 112gr. Ammo would function reliably in a rifle set up for the NATO round. You would probably need a new bolt with the correct springs and roller angles to match the ammo characteristics.

Oddly enough, this load would probably work OK in an adjustable gas system gun like the FAL, or possibly in the M1A with it's expansion chamber system,

January 10, 2013, 12:33 AM
Well now I feel a need to go off somewhere and grumble....

January 10, 2013, 02:10 AM
Checked further: the 7.62 CETME load is spec'd at 111gr. Lead and plastic core bullet at 2,500fps. So about the same as a comparable 7.62x39 loading.

This was developed for the prototype Model 'A' and Model 'B' Spanish rifles. The West German government got interested in the design but wanted the full NATO load, so Heckler and Koch did an extensive refinement of the gun, coming up with the design adopted as the G3. The Spanish took back the design as the CETME Model 'C', and adopted it in 1958.

The issue Spanish CETME is intended for the full NATO load, as are the FR 7 and FR 8 converted bolt rifles that were issued before the CETME was available in quantity.

The above from Musgrave's 'World's Assault Rifles'.

January 10, 2013, 09:05 AM
Graf & Sons. I'm not sure how much they have, but it is available.

Based on your description, Edarnold, it really doesn't sound like it would work well. Perhaps I'll purchase 2 or 3 boxes just to see. If not, no harm done... I have a single shot rifle for 10 minutes while I fire them. If they do work, perhaps I'll get more. LOL

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