Appendix Carrying a Striker fired pistol !!


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Glockedout17
January 9, 2013, 11:01 PM
I've been carrying a Glock 19 in a straight drop kydex holster at the 1:00 position, and I seem to like it pretty well. I have been carrying this way for about two weeks now and it really helps me to conceal my gun better than any other position. A few threads i've read say that carrying a striker fired pistol in this position is basically frowned upon. People tend to like pistols with manual safeties for AIWB better than striker fired pistols, but I'm a Glock fan and would like to stick with what I like. Another thing is the fact that people always talk about negligent discharges and the dangers of appendix carry, so I wonder why do people still carry that way. Does anyone else carry a striker fired pistol AIWB? How do you like it? And how did you get over the negatives/dangers of appendix carry?

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trickyasafox
January 10, 2013, 12:13 AM
I am a big appendix carry fan- I don't carry glocks often, but that is because I just dislike them - not because I think there is an inherent risk to carrying them in that position. In my opinion, I'm not really sure what dangers exist so long as safe gun handling is observed and an adequate holster in good condition is used.

Havok7416
January 10, 2013, 12:15 AM
I don't carry anything without a safety in the appendix position, not because I'm uncomfortable doing so but because that's how my holsters sit. Extensive training will of course mitigate the chances of an ND but the main thing to remember is to keep your finger off the trigger until the muzzle points forward. I spend a lot of time drawing unloaded guns at home since the local ranges rarely allow drawing. My main problem with appendix carry is the annoyance of getting in and out of vehicles which I have to do all too frequently it seems.

9mmepiphany
January 10, 2013, 12:16 AM
people always talk about negligent discharges and the dangers of appendix carry, so I wonder why do people still carry that way. Does anyone else carry a striker fired pistol AIWB? How do you like it? And how did you get over the negatives/dangers of appendix carry?
It isn't so much that it is more dangerous, it is that the consequences of a gun carried and having a ND in that position at more grave...location of blood vessels and major structured.

I have carried a striker fired pistol AIWB, but it was a Kahr with a long stroke trigger. A long time ago, I carried a Colt Commander in a Milt Sparks Summer Special like that...it was the original design carry location...and felt fine with the safety engaged, but the combination wasn't very comfortable for sitting or bending over.

I've seen enough Glock users letting off early shots when drawing out of OWB holsters that it isn't a carry option I would recommend. There seems to be something about a Glock's trigger that seems to tempt folks to want to get their finger on them early when drawing at speed

Bovice
January 10, 2013, 02:08 AM
AIWB or even AOWB is a pretty fast setup. I've had my fastest draws from the 2:00 position. When I hear people talk about appendix carry, I think of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA-xIssgT-o

Is it more dangerous? In some ways, yes. As always, trigger discipline will keep you safe.

Jenrick
January 10, 2013, 03:36 AM
If you have a good holster there should be ZERO chance of the trigger activating inadvertently. The only other advice I can offer, is to holster the weapon prior to putting the holster on. That eliminates one possible failure point.

-Jenrick

hentown
January 10, 2013, 08:15 AM
I'm a spleen-carrier myself, G26 in Sidearmor IWB. Can easily reach my G26 when belted in my vehicle.

JTQ
January 10, 2013, 08:24 AM
Isn't Gabe Suarez one of the biggest proponents of AIWB carry? Isn't he also a Glock guy?

Girodin
January 10, 2013, 12:24 PM
Isn't Gabe Suarez one of the biggest proponents of AIWB carry?

Perhaps this week. As soon as there is money in something else I'm sure that is what he will be on about.

For a while he was pitching this:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc295/B055H0GG/GabeSuarezdualGlock.jpg

In his article promoting it he referenced how in the "old west" gun fighters like Hardin and Hickok did it. Hmmmm, is it really that hard to see the differences between the types of weapons they carried and a Glock 17. According to his auto biography John Wesley Hardin at times carried a cap and ball revolver. They are slightly less reliable than glocks. They hold 1/3 the rounds. Oh and my speed reload on a cap and ball is a bit slower than with Gaston's pistols. Even, considering the later cartridge guns the same critiques are valid, its just a matter of degree. Further, the life styles and likelihood of a gun fight was different for Hickok and Hardin than most of us.

I should probably cut Gabe some slack, my guess is its just as likely he simply thought this was a good way to sell some left handed holsters to some folks on his forum and email list, folks that P.T. Barnum famously referred to.

I'm not too concerned about the "wisdom" of Mr. Suarez. His doing or not doing something would not be evidence to me of whether it is sound practice or not.

JTQ
January 10, 2013, 12:35 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing Gabe Suarez, I only know him from the internet (and not well at all), I don't own a Glock, and I don't own an appendix carry holster either. My point is, the appendix carry crowd generally has an awful lot of overlap with the Glock crowd. As a matter of fact, most of the AIWB carriers I've seen seem to be carrying Glocks.

If you think it's safe to carry a Glock, and you think it's safe to carry AIWB, why wouldn't you think it was safe to carry a Glock AIWB?

Jenrick
January 10, 2013, 01:01 PM
I've carried a Glock on my hip in a duty rig, a plains clothes rig, in a suit, in shorts, and in a bunch of other ways and clothing styles. I've never had it go off on it's own, don't see any reason to worry about it if move it up to 12:30 rather then it's normal 3 o'clock position. Now I will admit a G34 does NOT AIWB all that well due to the fact it's got a fricking long barrel, but something a little shorter does wonders.

-Jenrick

hardluk1
January 10, 2013, 01:13 PM
I have carried a stricker fired pistol in a 2:15 position for a few years with zero worry . Fingers not on trigger before your ready to shoot theres no problem.

horsemen61
January 10, 2013, 01:22 PM
As of right now I don't have a holster for the glock :( but I am getting one soon enough.

heeler
January 10, 2013, 02:47 PM
All I can add to this is the picture in post #9 looks extremely uncomfortable too me.
And I am not reffering to the safety aspect.

ATLDave
January 10, 2013, 02:51 PM
Pistols without manual safeties have additional risks of ND, simply because something, like a shirt tail, can get in the trigger guard while holstering, and because there is no safety-net for a mistake with trigger discipline. As 9mm epiphany noted, the stakes of an ND are even higher with appendix carry.

But this is coming from a guy who won't even own a pistol without a safety unless it's a revolver. You've obviously decided you don't want the safety net. The only question is are you willing to raise the stakes on your bet.

rjrivero
January 10, 2013, 02:59 PM
All I can add to this is the picture in post #9 looks extremely uncomfortable too me.
And I am not reffering to the safety aspect.Actually, that's probably pretty comfortable as far as appendix carry goes. The pistols ride high above the belt line, and therefore the barrel(s) won't extend very far past the belt line. Makes sitting and position changes much easier than "burying" the gun in the appendix carry position.

Godsgunman
January 10, 2013, 03:53 PM
Theres alot of generalization going on in these first responses. I am a big fan of appendix carry and definitely NOT a Block fan. I like a hammer thank you very much, I like to be able to see that the trigger is doing its job, not just hope. Anyways I AIWB because its the most comfortable for me, fastest drawing, and no one ever knows its there even if they are looking. Even passes a feel test most the time unless you're my wife since she's the only one allowed near that area ;). I have always questioned carrying a striker fired weapon there though. I just don't trust the "internal safety" or "striker pin" safeties simply because I can't see them like I can a hammer. So for me the stiker fired must have another external safety but with hammer guns it doesn't matter to me. The ultimate safety is my finger.

Glockedout17
January 10, 2013, 08:56 PM
All responses were great and well taken.

The only other advice I can offer, is to holster the weapon prior to putting the holster on. That eliminates one possible failure point.
Very great advice Jenrick

The few that have been carrying AIWB for awhile now and haven't had any ND's, this means that consistent trigger awareness has been used, and I commend you guys for that. If your aware of where your trigger finger is and take time to make sure that there is no obstructions in your holster while reholstering then you should be fine. Hammer or no hammer, using trigger awareness, careful drawing, and careful reholstering techniques 100% of the time should eliminate 99% of the issues people have with appendix carry. That other 1% is for comfort, and that varies from person to person. Now I'm going to go watch that Miami Vice clip a few more times... Thanks guys- GO17

Jenrick
January 10, 2013, 11:03 PM
For everyone talking about having the round crank off into your leg, groin, etc. while drawing, when the heck are you guys putting your finger on the trigger? Mine doesn't get close to the trigger until I'm at a retention position (2 or 3 depending on how many positions your draw stroke has). If you have a good holster that prevents anything from getting into the trigger guard, on your draw stroke I can't conceive of anything exhibiting a force on the trigger causing it activate. Anything that might get hooked in the trigger would pull it towards the muzzle in the opposite direction of activation.

-jenrick

9mmepiphany
January 10, 2013, 11:35 PM
Of the 5 Glocks I've seen ND; 2 had it happen while holstering, 1 had it happen on the draw, 2 had it happened while field stripping.

I don't even think the one drawing has a clear memory of when they accessed the trigger.

dastardly-D
January 11, 2013, 12:04 AM
Just chipping in...I've carried Kel-tec's,Glocks,Smith M60 and now a Sig 250 anywhere from 1230 to 230 position.If the barrel is too long it will be uncomfortable while sitting. No matter standing,sitting,or laying down you can readily get to your firearm.I've been carrying concealed in that position since the 80's and haven't had any trouble other than sitting position with a longer barrel.Body shape has a lot to do with it too.Tall guy's can wear about anything in that position,shorter,heavier guys have to carry shorter handguns. If you're going to be driving ,just cant the barrel toward the 1130 (ouch) position. I hope that helps somebody,you just have to try it for a week or so until you are used to that little pressure near your groin.

Ehtereon11B
January 11, 2013, 10:22 AM
Props to you for you for carrying a large frame Glock on the appendix. Most people who appendix carry carry small frame autos regardless of striker fire or hammer. On occasion I carry an LCP sized hammer fired single action appendix IWB.

Since you carry the Glock 19 for appendix carry almost exclusively I would suggest looking into adjusting the trigger. 5.5 would be a little light for me to consider appendix carry without active safeties.

Aceoky
January 11, 2013, 10:34 AM
Not for me, I value my femoral artery too much! I am not concerned about my trigger finger but shirts etc. getting into the trigger and not being noticed "in time' is a concern "of mine" I don't think it's worth the risk "for me" I don't think I'd enjoy trying to carry my full size 1911 there either

Girodin
January 11, 2013, 12:03 PM
All I can add to this is the picture in post #9 looks extremely uncomfortable too me.

His particular get up seems like it would make tying shoes or similar things difficult to do comfortably. I have used some appendix set ups that even with a G19 sized gun where very comfortable whether standing, bending sitting, or what ever, at least for me with my body type.

Glockedout17
January 11, 2013, 11:20 PM
Not for me, I value my femoral artery too much! I am not concerned about my trigger finger but shirts etc. getting into the trigger and not being noticed "in time' is a concern "of mine" I don't think it's worth the risk "for me" I don't think I'd enjoy trying to carry my full size 1911 there either
I'm not worried about reholstering, I want to get my pistol into action as quick as possible. After the threat is assessed, I dont see why I would need to reholster my firearm in a hurry. Simply look down and at my holster and reholster my weapon slowly, its that easy. A shirt getting caught in my trigger guard is nit even a concern of mine, I hardly practice reholstering, I practice getting my pistol into action quickly. Like I said, the only reason I would be reholstering the pistol is after I have confirmed that the threat is dealt with, and at that point there is no need to hurry. Simply put your pistol away slowly with your eye on the holster and call 911. Problem solved

Girodin
January 12, 2013, 02:55 AM
After the threat is assessed, I dont see why I would need to reholster my firearm in a hurry. Simply look down and at my holster and reholster my weapon slowly, its that easy.

I think the overall point has some merit. However, to act like any number of things will be just "that easy" if you are involved in a truly life threatening situation, particularly one where you may have just killed someone and/or been seriously injured yourself, may be a bit naive.

I hardly practice reholstering

The above is even more true for a skill that one spends little time practicing.

Kiln
January 12, 2013, 05:28 AM
I prefer to not have a gun with no manual safety pointed directly at my delicate parts.

Glockedout17
January 12, 2013, 08:58 AM
Girodin I understand what you mean, but im simply trying to say that reholstering is not meant to be a rush thing. Its not like they're competitions to see who can reholster fastest, but they do have quick draw competitions. Getting the weapon out of the holster matters more than reholstering it.

But you are right though, everything should be practiced including reholstering. I dont think I'd be calm after a stressful situation as you stated. Point taken

trickyasafox
January 12, 2013, 01:20 PM
I should point out- I don't holster my gun after I put the holster on- I put a holster on which already contains a gun. Greatly lowers the chance of me engaging the trigger.

Enachos
January 12, 2013, 02:00 PM
Dastard-D nailed it. I started carrying AIWB about three years ago. Started with a Glock 27. Moved into a Glock 29 just recently. The only thing that bothers me about this carry position is that it makes sitting and bending a but difficult. I'm always having to adjust when I get into and out of a vehicle. But still prefer it to other carry positions. Otherwise it's crossdraw OWB for me.

tomrkba
January 12, 2013, 02:17 PM
1) Does anyone else carry a striker fired pistol AIWB?
2) How do you like it?
3) And how did you get over the negatives/dangers of appendix carry?


1) Sure. It's not that big of a deal if you use your brain.
2) It is fine with short barreled handguns.
3) First, be careful! The location is a visible reminder to never become complacent. Second, holster reluctantly. Go slowly and verify while holstering the gun. There is no need to hurry and nobody ever won a gunfight because of how fast they holster a handgun. If you are really concerned about safety, remove the holster, place the gun in it, and put the holster back on.

tacxted
January 12, 2013, 05:24 PM
1) Does anyone else carry a striker fired pistol AIWB?
2) How do you like it?
3) And how did you get over the negatives/dangers of appendix carry?

I just started AIWB carry with my glock 26. Im a new CCP holder btw. Never have I ever considered putting the holster on first, then holstering my pistol. Always holster then put on.

Being new to CC I dont have any other carry method (yet) to compair to. That being said, I like this position and most of the time find it comfortable and very concealable. This is my holster FYI. http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=3871&GunID=50

The "get over the negatives/dangers" part is training, all training. At home I will unload my handgun and use an unloaded magazine. This is the only time I will re-holster while the holster is on me. While I practice draw and dry fire, I save some time this way.

Jenrick
January 12, 2013, 09:33 PM
Links not working.

-Jenrick

mlkx4
January 12, 2013, 10:24 PM
I carry aiwb and I would never do so without a manual safety. The term glock hip is out there for a reason after all. Not saying its the guns fault but there is a risk there. So attack away glock people.

Glockedout17
January 12, 2013, 11:39 PM
There is no need to hurry and nobody ever won a gunfight because of how fast they holster a handgun.
Great statement.

And to Tacxted, thank you for recognizing your freedom and using your 2nd Amendment. PM me if you ever need to discuss any gun related issues.

Hapworth
January 13, 2013, 06:06 PM
Gun ---> balls? No.

JTQ
January 13, 2013, 06:21 PM
tacxted wrote,
I just started AIWB carry with my glock 26. Im a new CCP holder btw. Never have I ever considered putting the holster on first, then holstering my pistol. Always holster then put on.

Being new to CC I dont have any other carry method (yet) to compair to. That being said, I like this position and most of the time find it comfortable and very concealable. This is my holster FYI. http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.as...=3871&GunID=50
Most will recommend a stiffer holster materiel, especially for a Glock.

I'm not sure if you've seen this before.

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2011/03/glock-accidental-discharge.html

Hapworth
January 13, 2013, 07:52 PM
Most will recommend a stiffer holster materiel, especially for a Glock.

I'm not sure if you've seen this before.

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com/2011/03/glock-accidental-discharge.htmlI think Glocks are excellent firearms, but they -- like all platforms -- have idiosyncratic considerations, and with the Glock it's that there's no meaningful external safety. You have to think of it like a revolver with a 5.5lb trigger. For that reason, I agree with you -- stiff holster material, as in kydex or thick, quality leather treated to hold its form, taken care of during ownership, and replaced at the first signs of leather weakening.

The link you provided is a valuable reminder that, despite what the blogger says, guns do not "just go off", and that what are often referred to as accidental discharges are really negligent ones.

The fellow whose Glock discharged at a moment not of his choosing is entirely to blame -- he carried in an old, worn out, deformed holster; the limp leather pinched into the trigger area and made a "boom".

His fault for not examining his accessories -- in this case, the holster -- adjudicating it spent, and replacing it with an appropriate one.

Anyone who can't take proper care doesn't deserve a firearm.

g_one
January 14, 2013, 02:27 PM
I try to pitch Raven Concealment any chance I get because I've been so happy with their products. If you want a great appendix carry IWB, check out: ACR (http://www.ravenconcealment.com/holsters/appendix-carry-rig-acr/acr-holster). Or, if you've got a Glock that you're carrying AIWB, their VG2 system (http://www.ravenconcealment.com/holsters/vanguard-holster-systems/vanguard-2-holster-full-kit) is even better, and still safe.

tomrkba
January 14, 2013, 05:33 PM
I carry aiwb and I would never do so without a manual safety. The term glock hip is out there for a reason after all. Not saying its the guns fault but there is a risk there. So attack away glock people.

I've seen "SIG hip" and "S&W revolver hip". The brain must be engaged at all times when handling a firearm. If you feel resistance while holstering--STOP! Remove the gun, look and clear the obstruction (usually part of your shirt). 1911's and Hi-Powers are just as easy to mess up with.

Glock it's that there's no meaningful external safety

You missed: SIG P-Series, double action revolvers, most DAO handguns, HK, Kahr, Springfield XD (hand automatically disengages the grip safety), S&W DAO's, etc. In other words, it's not the gun, it's the brain.

Anyone who can't take proper care doesn't deserve a firearm.

Actually, yes, they do. It's their right, but it's also their responsibility and they'll pay the consequences if something bad happens.

Hapworth
January 14, 2013, 06:04 PM
You missed: SIG P-Series, double action revolvers, most DAO handguns, HK, Kahr, Springfield XD (hand automatically disengages the grip safety), S&W DAO's, etc. In other words, it's not the gun, it's the brain.No, I didn't; the discussion had turned to Glocks, and I was staying with the discussion. Listing every firearm, their differences and how to address them, and every possible way they can be mishandled is out of scope and, frankly, stupid just to help one siege mentality tribe not erroneously feel singled-out.

Notice I mentioned I think Glocks are excellent...

Actually, yes, they do. It's their right, but it's also their responsibility and they'll pay the consequences if something bad happens.It wasn't a comment about the Second Amendment so relax -- there's enough hysteria going around on that subject.

tomrkba
January 14, 2013, 08:22 PM
No, I didn't; the discussion had turned to Glocks, and I was staying with the discussion. Listing every firearm, their differences and how to address them, and every possible way they can be mishandled is out of scope and, frankly, stupid just to help one siege mentality tribe not erroneously feel singled-out.

You are bringing quite a bit of your baggage into it. I don't use Glocks exclusively and I prefer the SIG P220. I even carry AIWB occasionally under a sweatshirt (the grip is very long and prints easily under regular shirts). I handle the SIG as carefully as any Glock.

My intent was to show that a wide variety of guns have the same action and require the same level of diligence when operating them. The problem is new shooters tend to think "Glock", see this sort of thing on the IntarWebz, and get all nervous when handling them. I know this because my coworker was one of those people. I had to work with him for several weeks to get him used to the Glock 19 pistol.

Carrying any of those guns in the appendix position requires the same level of caution. The difference is not difficult to learn; just ingrain good handling procedures and the shooter will be safe with any handgun. Many people don't have that level of confidence and need to learn it.

dastardly-D
January 16, 2013, 07:41 PM
Lot's of hard words being tossed around here by some people complaining that aiwb carry firearm should have a safety on it ! Revolvers don't have any safety and lot's of cops and civilians have carried aiwb for years and no problems,what's the fuss ?

Jenrick
January 16, 2013, 08:44 PM
Also just because it has a safety so what? If it some how get's bumped off safe is it any more likely to go off? If it is I HIGHLY recommend a different holster!

-Jenrick

Glockedout17
January 16, 2013, 08:57 PM
Did some drills at the range today, (drawing and safely reholstering) and to tell you the truth it's pretty safe once you get your finger control down. Remember to keep your finger pointed down as if your pointing to the ground when drawing and to look at the holster when reholstering your weapon, (nothing cool about not looking when reholstering). Many people have carried this way for many decades and because they practiced safe gun handling they're still around to tell me about it.

ATLDave
January 17, 2013, 11:26 AM
Lot's of hard words being tossed around here by some people complaining that aiwb carry firearm should have a safety on it ! Revolvers don't have any safety and lot's of cops and civilians have carried aiwb for years and no problems,what's the fuss ?

Without saying that any gun "should" have a safety on it (except that it should have the safety configuration the user prefers):

Go pull the trigger on a revolver, particularly one that hasn't been slicked up for competition. Then, right afterward, pull the trigger on a Glock. If you can't tell why someone might think that the difference in the weight and length of those pulls is significant, then you have a wonderful ability to disregard triggers. Good news, since you'll never have to spend money on a trigger job!

Kiln
January 17, 2013, 01:32 PM
I can't think of a single person that would carry a revolver with the hammer cocked in single action because it is unsafe, yet people do it every day with the Glock which has a similarly light SA trigger.

rbernie
January 17, 2013, 02:11 PM
Well, I think that's a bit overstated. I cannot possibly compare the short/crisp/light 2lb-4lb SA trigger of any of my revos with the long, deliberate 5lb-6lb pull needed of any of my stock Glocks.

dastardly-D
January 17, 2013, 02:23 PM
:banghead: Maybe I can explain it real plain for those of you who don't understand one of the basic concepts of carrying any weapon ? Keep your fingers out the little hole thing that makes the gun go bang ! You can throw a Glock against a building and it won't go off ! Why the senseless drama ?

Kiln
January 17, 2013, 02:51 PM
Well, I think that's a bit overstated. I cannot possibly compare the short/crisp/light 2lb-4lb SA trigger of any of my revos with the long, deliberate 5lb-6lb pull needed of any of my stock Glocks.
I know I was exaggerating but my whole point was actually directed at the guy higher up in the thread who was talking about ND's with revolvers and comparing it to a Glock. I just forgot to use the quote function.

I doubt that there have been nearly as many "while holstering" injuries caused by revolvers with a 4" long double action trigger in comparison to a Glock's 4-5lb SA trigger with a relatively short travel.

breakingcontact
January 17, 2013, 04:57 PM
Yuck, another argument about how if you're macho you don't need a safety.

Carry what you're comfortable with, how you're comfortable carrying it. And....TRAIN with it!

ATLDave
January 17, 2013, 06:25 PM
:banghead: Maybe I can explain it real plain for those of you who don't understand one of the basic concepts of carrying any weapon ? Keep your fingers out the little hole thing that makes the gun go bang ! You can throw a Glock against a building and it won't go off ! Why the senseless drama ?

No drama. You were the one who analogized a Glock trigger to a revolver. They aren't equivalent. There's more allowance for something (not just a finger - triggers don't know the difference between a finger and a shirtail or the corner of a seat belt buckle) to get into the triggerguard of a revolver without a discharge.

If you're perfect and never make a mistake, this doesn't matter.

dastardly-D
January 17, 2013, 10:13 PM
I know, I know,accidents happen ,even to those who prepare for most every eventuality ! Keeping your trigger covered means nothing will get in to make the gun go bang,whether it be any revolver or semi-auto,whether it be finger ,seat belt buckle,or accumulation of dust bunnies. That is the point ! Or isn't that equivalent enough of an explanation for you ATLDave ? This is all a simple enough point.If a person is so worried about carrying any certain sidearm in any certain position on their body,then simply don't ! I'm sure Obama will have legislature on what's correct for us gunners to carry and where to carry, coming up soon !:rolleyes:

ATLDave
January 18, 2013, 09:55 AM
If a person is so worried about carrying any certain sidearm in any certain position on their body,then simply don't !

I agree with that entirely.

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