Mosler Class 6 container question


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whiskeydump
January 9, 2013, 11:44 PM
Hey guys, I've lurked here for awhile and know there are a few fellas who know about safes. I picked up this Mosler GSA Class 6 container and would like to know a little more about it. I thought I had done my due diligence in research but alas, I somehow didn't pay too much attention to the classes, thinking 6 was better than 5.

About the container. Mosler. 1020lbs (tag on front) S&G dial lock. 3/8 inch steel on the door and the sides. 6 square 3/4 inch bolts. Approximately 52"H x 40"L x 22"W. So, what do I really have? Is it comparable to a RSC? I know it has no fire protection, I bought it primarily to get my guns locked away as they should be, with real forced entry and fire protection to be considered later through retrofitting or sale and new purchase. I was thinking maybe I could add some fire resistance later, and I think it will be a fun project to deck out the inside as it's a pretty blank canvas, as well as bolt it down when I get a more permanent (as in a couple years, not next month).

http://imgur.com/ElH6z

That's pretty much the info I have, I could not find a serial number. Whelp, tell me what a bad purchase I made!:o

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cbpagent72
January 10, 2013, 12:37 AM
We use one of those at my agency for flash-bang/explosives storage. It seems to be pretty secure.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

whiskeydump
January 11, 2013, 12:42 AM
Thanks for your response! It seems to be pretty secure to me as well, but I know my feelings mean nothing. Still hoping some of the experts around here can chime in, cheers!

Isaac-1
January 11, 2013, 04:59 AM
I bought a GSA (Class 2?) fire proof cabinet a few years back that was built around 1970 that was equipped with a similar S&G lock that did not work. Thankfully it was open and I ended up replacing the lock with a modern electronic S&G lock. In the process I discovered that the original lock was one of their radiation proof locks, meaning the dials/disks inside were made out of some sort of plastic that does not show up on xrays so someone trying to break in could not X-ray the lock to determine its position. The plastic used in these old S&G locks don't age well and after 40 or so years becomes extremely brittle, mine was so bad the parts would crumble at the slightest touch. There are numerous stories online about people buying these sorts of cabinets with "working" locks, then transporting them some where and find they no longer work, most likely due to the fragile plastic parts inside. SO whatever you decide to do, be careful, and consider replacing the lock before you end up with a box you have to drill into to open.

CB900F
January 11, 2013, 11:05 AM
Whiskey;

Without knowing what it cost you, I can't tell you how good a deal you got. But I suspect, knowing as I do what Mil-surp sales tend to run against what the gummint paid, that you did well. The container itself is actually pretty secure too, much better than today's RSC's as a matter of fact.

Mosler themselves are out of business & have been for years. The company was purchased by Diebold & simply doesn't exist anymore. However, it's a well known product & there's still service available, though new parts probably aren't.

If you do have one of the plastic wheel pack S&G's, by all means replace it with an S&G 6730. If you want to convert to electronic, I'll suggest going with the LaGard 3715, basic.

900F

whiskeydump
January 11, 2013, 11:13 AM
Thanks Issac and CB900F,

The lock up is tight, with no wobble and it opens first try every try. I am not available to look right now, but can I see if it has plastic gears just by taking off the back plate (as in getting to where I can change the combo with the key)? Or will I need to have it inspected by a safe/locksmith. Thanks for the info guys!

CB900F
January 11, 2013, 12:28 PM
Whiskey;

Unless you truly do know what you're doing, I'd suggest not opening the back of the lock. Same for changing the combination. I frequently fund "new toys" with the money that comes from dealling with user attempts to put in a new combination. If the front of that unit comes off, just take it into the locksmith.

900F

whiskeydump
January 11, 2013, 03:26 PM
I'll heed your advice, thanks again!

soloban
January 11, 2013, 08:23 PM
GSA Class 5 or Class 6 means that it can be used by the Government and Government contractors to store sensitive and classified materials in secure facilities. They are fairly secure but anyone determined enough can get into them with a torch or mechanical means. If the lock on the front is a mechanical one you'll need a locksmith to change it (its a PITA). Most are not fire resistant and are just really thick steel.

If you want to drop a $1000 you can pay a locksmith to upgrade it to a digital lock (Kaba Mas X-09) that is more tamper resistant, user changeable and will time out if someone attempts an incorrect combination too many times.

a1abdj
January 12, 2013, 10:12 AM
There are actually 7 classes of GSA containers, with all but 5 and 6 being obsolete.

Both classes will have the same resistance to surreptitious entry (20 hours), and covert entry (30 minutes). These two are really only important if you're expecting a highly trained spy to gain access to your safe. :D

The class 5 is the only one of the two with a forced entry rating of 10 minutes. It is also the only one offered with just a forced entry requirement, eliminating the surreptitious and covert entry requirements. This particular safe is the weapons storage version. If you can find one, they include a dandy roll out rifle rack.

CB900F
January 13, 2013, 07:28 PM
Whiskey;

If I find you're even considering putting an X0-9 on that container, I shall find out who & where you are & come slap da snot outta you for being a dumb-a$$!!

900F

4v50 Gary
January 15, 2013, 12:31 PM
A1abdj - can you please go over each of the GSA classes for us?

whiskeydump
January 15, 2013, 06:23 PM
Not to worry 900F! S&G dials for me!

After reading A1abdj's response, I am still a little confused. Even though my container has no forced entry rating, do you still believe it is better than today's RSC's? Thanks for all the knowledge here folks, keep it spreading!

CB900F
January 16, 2013, 10:20 PM
Whiskey;

I do believe that the Mosler is better anti-theft protection than almost any RSC on the market today. Certainly better than anything selling for under $2,000.00 IMHO.

900F

a1abdj
January 17, 2013, 12:12 AM
can you please go over each of the GSA classes for us?

For those of us interested in the exciting world of government safe specifications :D

Class 1 - 30 minutes surreptitious entry, 10 minutes forced entry, 1 hour fire rating.

Class 2 - 20 minutes surreptitious entry, 5 minutes forced entry, 1 hour fire rating

Class 3 - 20 minutes surreptitious entry

Class 4 - 20 minutes surreptitious entry, 5 minute forced entry

Class 5 - 20 hours surreptitious entry, 30 minutes covert entry, 1 minutes forced entry

Class 6 - 20 hours surreptitious entry, 30 minutes covert entry

Class 7 - 20 hours surreptitious entry, 15 minutes covert entry.

Surreptitious entry would be opening the safe without being detected. This usually means the use of lock manipulation or using an x-ray of the lock. This is why many of the locks used on GSA safes are tested against a radiological attack. If you have a mechanical lock with a 1R designation, it will have plastic wheels.

A covert entry would leave some evidence that the safe was tampered with.

I am still a little confused

It's the government. What else would you expect?

do you still believe it is better than today's RSC's?

I suppose the technical answer is that it depends on how the safe is being attacked. However, as a general statement, I agree with CB900F.

whiskeydump
January 17, 2013, 12:42 AM
Long live the interwebs. A genuine thanks boys, I'm leaving this thread with much more knowledge than with I entered. I'm confident to insure the snot out of em, and fill 'er up.

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