Still looking, ramblings of a wanna-be shotgun owner...


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ZVP
January 10, 2013, 02:59 AM
There is SO much to consider when buying a H/D shotgun that you can't just go to your local gun shop and buy the baddest looking blaster you see!
Twenty years ago that's what I would have done but thday much older, crippled and with weaker eyes I am a different consumer.
I want a light 12 ga pump with as few gizmos to interfear with the intended purpose (Fight stopping). MY choice is a gun with maybe a 20" barrel (giving a 5 round capacity), wood stock (I just don't like Plastic) and the best ammo choice for the intended ranges and opponents that I may encounter.
I don't see myself running down and attacking opponents, rather the gun will be used in a defensive mode. A break-in, Civil Disturbance overflowing to my abode, orin response to attack while away from the house (Traveling, camping etc).
I have a couple revolvers that might be better used in some break-in scenerios than using a long shotgun. I actually think that for house clearing the revolver gives you a better chance for using "cover" than the Shotgun does.
The use of a fighting Shotgun in pratical use has it's limitations. It is not the sprayed out streetsweeper that some think it is, the shot string is about coffee cup size at across the room distances. Actually aiming the Shotgun is needed at close range.
Ammo consideration is another big dilemmia. Penetration of the shot seems to be too shallow with game loads so you need at least #4 Buck to hit vitals. Slugs overpenetrate and are as dangerous as a .357 for penetrating unwanted surfaces. It appears that you can stack your magazine for best preformance but simply a mag full of 00 Buck works just fine.
So much to learn and thank God for the NET! Lots of articles and sites to read, lots of opnions to consider and you tube videos to watch.
All in all I need to make a competent, realistic decision to purchase the SHotgun that's right for my needs! being sort of gun-savvy has helped me in my reserch and though the Shotgun iis a different animal, this will all aid me in making the proper decision to buy.
ZVP

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swathdiver
January 10, 2013, 08:47 AM
1960s-1970s vintage Ithaca 37 shotgun. Get a parkerized model with either an 18.5" or 20.1" barrel. Pick up a long barrel for bird hunting or a rifled barrel for deer if you desire.

Slam-fire, combat proven reliability and durability, lightweight and slim and trim. IMHO there's none better.

#4 buckshot ideal round for home defense IMHO too.

Fred Fuller
January 10, 2013, 09:03 AM
Solo house clearing is a greatly over-rated hobby.

A 20 gauge will do everything indoors or on a small property that a 12 will, and from a smaller, lighter weight platform as well. Don't automatically sell it short.

I agree with the KISS approach.

Forget about "candy cane" loading. You need to KNOW what's coming out of the muzzle every time you press the trigger, and few people indeed can keep up with the number of rounds they've fired when under pressure. Get Louis Awerbuck or someone similar to put you through a few iterations of Rolling Thunder if you don't believe me.

Most any reliable shotgun will do if the SHOOTER will do. Mindset and skillset are far more important than toolset.

And spend AT LEAST as much $$$, time and effort on hardening your home and upgrading your layers of security as you do on firearms. The best thing that could happen is not having to go to guns at all, and if you can prevent that by making your house a less attractive target, that's a win.

303tom
January 10, 2013, 10:04 AM
It`s not that tough, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/26/savage-stevens-350-pump-security/
Under 300 bucks.............

Milkmaster
January 10, 2013, 11:30 AM
IMO...The worst home defense shotguns out there are the new ones sitting in the corner where the owner has failed to learn and practice. The second worst are the heavy overloaded accessorized tacticool models that are like carrying a green pressure treated 4x4.

Remington 870, Ithaca 37, Browning BPs, or any of the well established pumps out there come in models that will do just as you desire. Find the one thay YOU like and learn it well. Spend as much time as necessary to run it by feel like an expert under duress.

Good Luck!

foghornl
January 10, 2013, 02:01 PM
My HomeLand Security Shotgun is a plain-jane Maverick 88 loaded with #4 Buck, and 5 slugs in an elastic butt-cuff.

I do have the 18-1/2" cylinder-bore barrel that functions well with both Buck & Slug.

If a home invasion comes up, I'm gonna be hunkered down in the dark behind the bed, shotgun pointed across said bed, down the very narrow hallway, to an illuminated living room (X-10 controls are great for turning on lights in another room).

kbbailey
January 10, 2013, 02:33 PM
IMHO...
one fact stands out about the Ithaca 37 and BPS.....if you hold the forearm too far back and interfere with the bottom eject....you will jam your shotgun. Therefore I would never recommend as a sd/hd shotgun.
I know that they are great guns......just my $0.02

Deer_Freak
January 10, 2013, 05:37 PM
There is nothing wrong with the function of bottom ejection, they are reliable. I reload after I fire a shot. It's a habit I picked while hunting with guns plugged to 3 shots. A friend has a stevens I borrow when I visit. I have jammed the stevens up reloading it. I have had the same problem with a BPS shotgun. Nothing is wrong with either gun. They just don't fit my shooting style.

I prefer a Mossberg 500. For the money they are hard to beat. I have a 500C I have put thousands of rounds through it shooting skeet and sporting clays. It has needed one shell stop over the years.

Teachu2
January 10, 2013, 06:07 PM
I want a light 12 ga pump with as few gizmos to interfear with the intended purpose (Fight stopping). MY choice is a gun with maybe a 20" barrel (giving a 5 round capacity), wood stock (I just don't like Plastic)

Wood is heavy - the Mossberg 500 combo in plastic is light....

BigJimP
January 10, 2013, 06:11 PM
Maybe because I've shot the Browning BPS for over 30 yrs...as a pump gun / cycling and reloading that shotgun is 2nd nature to me.../ and I think its one of the better pump guns on the market.

Like you suggested - there may be times where you don't want a long gun of any kind for home defense ....or at least I don't, so I rely on a handgun for my primary home defense.../ my choice is a 1911 or a good S&W revolver...

but if I really wanted a dedicated "Fighting Shotgun" ...I'd buy a Benelli M-4 model ...gas operated semi-auto .../ or maybe one of their Inertia models like an M-2 tactical ...but I'd probably go with the M-4. I just don't need a tactical shotgun...but I've fired a few M-4's at my range...and I like them a lot. The only downside is cost..in my area they're around $ 1,750 new...even though they list for $ 1,899 ...

http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli-m4.php

The M-4 is a lot of gun for the money in my opinion.
---------------
But if you're really focused on pump guns ....at least look at the Benelli Nova ....and consider one with the comfort tech system in it ( it reduces the recoil significantly in my opinion ) on a fixed breech gun like a pump. But I've got a little arthritis, a rebuilt shoulder, etc...and I don't want to put 50 rounds of OO Buck thru a fixed breech gun, like a pump, too often anymore...so that's why I'd look at the M-4 .

Weight is your friend ..in terms of reducing recoil on a shotgun...adding 1 lb to a shotgun can reduce recoil about 15 - 20 % which is a lot ...especially if you're shooting higher velocity OO Buck ...

MAKster
January 10, 2013, 10:12 PM
The Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 have been the top selling shotguns for decades. You can buy them in every configuration imaginable.

ZVP
January 11, 2013, 12:39 AM
I especally like the idea about making the house more invasion-proof! Seems like if they don't get in , you don't need the gun!
I really appreciate all the tips and ideas.
ZVP

swathdiver
January 11, 2013, 09:28 PM
IMHO...
one fact stands out about the Ithaca 37 and BPS.....if you hold the forearm too far back and interfere with the bottom eject....you will jam your shotgun.

Huh? In twenty years of shooting an Ithaca 37 it never once failed to feed or fire on me. I cannot picture the scenario you mentioned either, are you a lefty?

While this is a home defense situation, I once went hunting with a buddy with his Mossberg 500. We trekked a couple miles through a swamp (Florida boys) and when we reached dry ground he tried to fire his Mossberg. It would not fire, not even after rinsing it out in the swamp water. I had to completely break it down on my poncho liner, clean it and re-assemble it. The Ithaca fired full of mud (not barrel) and after rinsing in swamp water. Conversely, my Glock 23 had to be stripped to fire again while his 1911 also went bang every time.

kbbailey
January 12, 2013, 09:21 AM
Huh? In twenty years of shooting an Ithaca 37 it never once failed to feed or fire on me. I cannot picture the scenario you mentioned either, are you a lefty?

One of my quail hunting buddies has a BPS. Over ten years of hunting with him, It happened upwards of a dozen times. I called it the 'one-shot-wonder'. It even had a cut-out at the back of the fore end for the empty to eject through.

Like I said, great guns with a great following. My friend never mentioned getting a different gun, because he liked his BPS.

BTW...one other thing that you cant do with a bps or 37 is shoot it empty and toss 1 into the eject port and slam it shut and shoot. That is the main reason I wouldnt want or recommend one for sd/hd.

Uniquedot
January 12, 2013, 05:37 PM
Huh? In twenty years of shooting an Ithaca 37 it never once failed to feed or fire on me.

37's and 12's have always been very popular in my family and the 37's have been the only ones to fail in the field...double feeding issues. They are good guns, but they are not model 12's. Remington wingmasters are a favorite of mine and I've never had a failure with one nor have I seen one fail in the field, but of course there are millions out there and I know someone has had to have failures with them as well as 12's.

murdoc rose
January 12, 2013, 10:48 PM
Winchester 97.

PonyKiller
January 12, 2013, 11:57 PM
ZVP, I'm no expert in civil insurections or anything of the sort, and not a tactical guy. That being said, my mossberg 500 is plenty light enough for me to hike miles in the woods. Light is a relative term i guess, mine rings in at 8lbs with the 28" barrell and 5 in the tube. Plenty light enough for the five steps to a light switch conftontation on the steps of my home. If I can't hit something vital enough to put a bad guy down in 70, .33 cal tries its a good club.

MCgunner
January 13, 2013, 06:44 AM
LOTS of good Mossberg and Remington pumps at pawn shops. I picked up a 535 (for hunting, not H/D) for 170 bucks last year, GREAT shape.

Mavericks are about the lowest priced shotguns out there I'd trust. Don't own one, but they're basically a Mossberg with a crossbolt safety. I own Mossberg, Winchester auto, and some break action stuff (doubles and single shots) For H/D, I have a little 20 gauge coach gun in the bedroom, plenty and I know the gun well as I hunt with it. It is part of me. :D

Remember, you'll pay for "light" at the shoulder. My little coach gun is under or about 6 lbs, primary reason I wanted it in 20 gauge. Now, if I were just going to shoot a few rounds, I could handle a 12, but it's a dove gun and I've been known to heat the barrels on a dove hunt. :D

Snarlingiron
January 13, 2013, 07:03 PM
I have 2 Remington 870's stationed in different parts of the house. They have both been exercised enough to prove their reliability. That means several thousands of rounds through each. Both have 20" rifle sighted barrels. That is because I have taken some tactical shotgun courses and I can shoot slugs more accurately with rifle sights. I can also ignore the sights and shoot shot shells just as well as I can with a bead sight. I am not a fan of bottom eject shotguns. Many are.

Just about any decent shotgun will suffice if the operator is up to the task. You will never get up to the task on the internet. Pick out a decent shotgun...many have been mentioned and then hi thee to the range and make piles of empty hulls. Some professional training by an actual, you know, professional is invaluable.

If you do it right, the shotgun will cost much less than the ammo you are going to put through it.

As others have said, forget the stacking silliness. A session with a good instructor will quickly demonstrate how trying to figure out what's going on with that under duress could get you shot.

My .02 cents worth. Good luck.

swathdiver
January 14, 2013, 10:44 AM
BTW...one other thing that you cant do with a bps or 37 is shoot it empty and toss 1 into the eject port and slam it shut and shoot. That is the main reason I wouldnt want or recommend one for sd/hd.

Nope, you sure can't. But one can learn the proper way for an Ithaca and be just as effective. :)


As for double feeding, if memory serves, that has something to do with the little shell stop spring.

Deer_Freak
January 15, 2013, 02:09 AM
I have a Maverick 88 with the 8 shot magazine tube. I can get six 3" 00 buckshot and three 2 3/4 slugs in it for a total of nine shots. For $230 it's very hard to beat as a tactical/home defense shotgun. The gun it's self is very light for a pump shotgun. Once it is loaded it is as heavy as most field shotguns. The difference is with some tactical reloading I can put down a large crowd of men. In a situation like the Rodney King riots or a crowd of looters after a hurricane the nine shots are mighty handy.

foghornl
January 15, 2013, 08:23 AM
One other thing.. A LOT of practice.

As our late friend/mentor/shotgun guru Dave McCracken said BA/UU/R

Buy Ammo
Use Up
Repeat

kbbailey
January 15, 2013, 01:30 PM
But one can learn the proper way for an Ithaca and be just as effective

ok, no comment.

jogar80
January 15, 2013, 03:05 PM
.....you can't just go to your local gun shop and buy the baddest looking blaster you see!

Yes you can..... and you should:D

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