CH4D Prime and swage


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119er
January 10, 2013, 11:48 PM
Product: http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/priming/419000

Just got this setup in the mail. I can't wait to use it but no instructions were included. That is fine as it is a simple tool, but I have zero experience swaging brass. I assume that I should set the die up to just barely reform the face of the pocket? Any help or tips for this die is appreciated!

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119er
January 11, 2013, 12:20 AM
Alright, I've tried it and I have the thinnest of brass "rings" that seem to be sheared off of the circumference of the pocket and pushed into the pocket to the depth of travel of the punch. This is the point that primers stop getting caught on the crimp or seating at an angle.

Normal?

JustSomeGuyinCA
January 11, 2013, 12:40 AM
Are you able to post a picture or two of what you're seeing?

119er
January 11, 2013, 01:32 PM
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/m11925th/DSCF0642_zps88b653f4.jpg

The ring I'm talking about is the one inside the pocket where the head of the swage stops. I can pop it out with tweezers. Is this just material being sheared off the crimp, or am I oversizing the pocket? Primers seat fine w/ the ring popped out. I just want to keep stress on the brass to a minimum.

rcmodel
January 11, 2013, 01:48 PM
You want to run the swage pin in full depth of the pocket.
It is the right length to stop on the bottom.

The rounded edge of the punch should round the edge of the pocket slightly.

rc

GW Staar
January 11, 2013, 02:14 PM
I have had this happen with really old LC brass (.308). The brass is so hard it shears a tiny brass ring instead of pushing it back. You might want to swage twice with hard brass, but be sure you remove the sheared ring first, since it will hold the button back and keep it from bottoming out on the pocket bottom. Result....not enough swage.

One more thing. I learned of this phenomenum the spooky way. I loaded a 100 rounds of LC 67! and my primer seater was seat as usual. It has set the primers .005" below flush for a long time, so I didn't watch close enough. Unbeknowns to me I had 2 in the hundred with sheared rings in the pockets. Those little rings kept those 2 primers from seating against the pocket bottom.

Result when I shot the first one? Slam fire with my Remington R25! Scared the hell out of me. I stopped shooting and inspected the rest of the box and found one more high primer. Back at the house, I pulled the bullet and primer and found another brass ring in the pocket. I pulled the primer from the case that slam fired and it too had a brass ring under the primer. Rest of the box shot fine later.

Moral? Don't take your priming operation for granted, and make dang sure your swaging operation is not leaving little presents in the pockets before you load em.

rcmodel
January 11, 2013, 02:17 PM
Maybe it would be worth a quick twist with a chamfering tool before swaging, just to get the ring out of the picture totally.

rc

oldpapps
January 11, 2013, 03:28 PM
Got one and love it.

When the 'plug' hits the bottom of the primer pocket, stop. Don't get over zealous. I did and bent/bowed/ripped some rims :cuss:

I get a very 'fine' feel when seating primers. I like that but I'm usually to impatient and prime with a LEE tool while watching the news.

mtrmn
January 11, 2013, 03:32 PM
I love the CH4D! I have swaged thousands of rounds with it now and haven't found any little rings. Haven't had a problem priming on my Dillon 550. Maybe my swager is a little more rounded or my brass isn't as hard?

You do need to adjust it properly, as others said, the swage pin needs to go all the way in but if you adjust the tool too low you'll tear the rims off your brass.

mdemetz
January 11, 2013, 06:26 PM
I have trouble with the new LC 4 point crimps. The swager will push the tips of the protrusions down into the pocket forming a line behind them. I now use the Lee chamfer tool to remove the protrusions before swaging.

119er
January 12, 2013, 06:10 PM
I have probably been overcomplicating this so here is what I've done and it is working fine.

I setup the die so that the "nose" of the swage (measures .21000) enters the pocket up to the point that the lower taper contacts the case head and the resistance just barely causes cam over. It's my belief that this nose punches the overhanging crimp material off and moves it into the primer pocket. Then the taper slightly flares the pocket edge. Here are some pics of the swage, how I set it up, and the ring I have been descibing. The ring varies in reference to how centered the crimp is. A concentric crimp produces a full ring as shown and an off center crimp gives semi circular shavings.

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/m11925th/DSCF0645_zps01f02b9b.jpg
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/m11925th/DSCF0646_zps281bf297.jpg
http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/m11925th/DSCF0647_zps9ef9cee0.jpg

kingmt
January 13, 2013, 05:10 PM
Don't let it bottom out. Let it go in just enough to feel it pop past the sewage on the way in & out.

No idea on the ring. After several thousand swaged brass I have never seen that.

Otto
January 13, 2013, 05:27 PM
The punch is grabbing and ripping out the crimp.
Try polishing the punch with some Flitz or put a small amount of case lube on it.



http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc399/m11925th/DSCF0647_zps9ef9cee0.jpg

119er
January 14, 2013, 11:58 PM
Will do Otto, good suggestion. I have primed about 600 pieces so far and only had one that I had to cut the crimp to seat a primer. I'm doing these on a LNL AP and the priming is doing good. I get high primers when debris ends up in the primer slide groove though. As a safety measure I feel every primer by hand and reseat any that don't feel right w/ a hand primer once a batch is done. Even on bulk runs. I am vigilant to minimize the chance of a slamfire. Sucks to hear the four stab crimps are being problematic. I've got some 5.56 brass coming up that has them.

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