Beginning to understand Glock...


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hq
January 11, 2013, 08:05 AM
Yesterday evening at the range was a somewhat baffling experience. Along with some other pistols, I brought my 2nd gen Glock 17, which I've only had because I got it cheap and everyone supposedly should have one. Well, whatever. Just to shoot it a bit, I filled a magazine, racked the gun and fired. Even though I've polished the trigger mechanism, it's far from smooth and light; I proceeded firing at the target at a fast pace, just to get it over with. It took about ten seconds.

The result was a bit of a surprise. There were 17 holes in a nice, 7" group about 4-5" above dead center, at 25m/27yd. That's something I'd expect rapid firing my Para race gun, not a nearly stock plastic fantastic with a trigger pull that resembles a staple gun. I'm nowhere near a professional shooter, just an amateur with some IPSC background from the 80's and early 90's. I'm a bit baffled. I've never liked Glocks. I've never thought much of them, except as lightweight, boxy and utterly reliable carry and service pistols. I never expected to group this well with one, especially just shooting it as fast as I could and not even really concentrating.

I think I'm beginning to understand what Glock enthusiasts rave about. And as a result, I hate Glocks more than ever. Mine in particular, it just outshot my favorite carry 1911. :)

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Hit_Factor
January 11, 2013, 08:35 AM
I know a lot of folks think of the Glock as the antithesis of the 1911. But those are my primary carry and competition handguns as well. S&W revolvers hold a soft spot in my heart as well.

Odd Job
January 11, 2013, 08:45 AM
I also changed my mind about Glocks, it happened after my last trip to Florida.
I had previously tried various G17s in South Africa and just couldn't "gel" with them. I didn't like the grip or the trigger and was never comfortable with the ones I tried.
Last year I tried the G21 and the G26. The .45 was a range hire and the 9mm was a friend's gun.
They were both surprisingly good. The G21 was much better than the two other .45s I tried: the P220 and a Springfield Armory stainless.
Perhaps there have been some design changes over the years, or perhaps I have changed. Whatever the cause, I have had to rethink my opinion on Glocks.

ForumSurfer
January 11, 2013, 09:02 AM
Join the club. I never "got it" until I got into action shooting and stepped away from the static range. Then it was like an epiphany, "Hey I actually like this ugly little glock." The ergonomics seem bad, the trigger seems fair (or worse)...but the whole package just works for some reason.

OregonJohnny
January 11, 2013, 12:45 PM
I too am a recently "converted" anti-Glock person. The only Glocks I have ever considered owning are either a 20 or 29, for the sole purpose of having a 10mm all-around outdoor sidearm. But every time I have held or shot a Glock, I have hated the ergonomics. Especially the MASSIVE G20/21. Then the SF models came out, and although they still feel like holding a 2x4, they are a slightly more comfortable 2x4.

After almost a year of debating with myself, and dabbling in trying to turn my 1911 into a .45 Super all-around outdoor gun, I finally said, "heck with it" and just recently purchased a G20SF. I've only had the chance to shoot it once, and put 100 rounds of American Eagle 180-grain FMJ through it. Of course, it fed, fired, and ejected all 100 rounds without any problems, straight from the box without a pre-clean. And although I have guns with much better triggers, better sights, slimmer more comfortable grips, etc., I shot the stupid Glock pretty well.

I don't see myself ever wanting or needed another Glock of any other caliber, but at least this G20SF has opened my eyes a little bit. My favorite thing about this pistol is that the finish seems so thick and tough, and the gun is just so stinking ugly, that I will never hesitate taking it along on any kind of hiking/hunting/camping excursion and I won't care if it falls into a mud hole or gets kicked across a gravel road.

banddr2
January 11, 2013, 01:04 PM
Me too. Ten years ago my Glock groups were always lousy, lately my G19 is my most accurate pistol. I consistently hit 2" plates at 25 yards with mine.

psyopspec
January 11, 2013, 01:40 PM
My conversion was similar. I didn't like the pistols, the grip angles, the triggers, the looks. Then one day at the range I fired a friend's Glock 17 much better than the HK P2000 I'd been carrying and competing with for years.

I rolled over after that and have stayed with the line ever since; it would have been dumb to brush off the actual results of shooting the gun with no training in favor of what amount to minor complaints in the past.

mdauben
January 11, 2013, 01:44 PM
They were both surprisingly good. The G21 was much better than the two other .45s I tried
I find my own 21 suprisingly accurate. I can certainly shoot it much more acurately than any of my other SD guns, even though the 17 feels better in my hand.

WinThePennant
January 11, 2013, 07:37 PM
I tell people this time and again -- Glocks shoot better in the hand than they feel in the hand. I pick up a Sig, and I'm in Heaven. I shoot the Sig, and that high bore axis makes me wish I had my Glock. Glocks shoot better in the hand than any pistol I've ever owned (and, I've owned a lot). Follow up shots are a BREEZE with a Glock.

There's something about that low bore axis and grip angle that just works. If your only experience is a 1911 or similar guns with the same 1911 grip angle, then it will take a little bit of psychological effort for you to like a Glock. Once you get over the hump, it hits you like a bolt of lightning -- Honey, where have you been all my life!! :)

Then, you absolutely fall in love with the after-market accessories that comes with owning a Glock. My God, I can't go back to another gun. Heck, you can't find a suitable holster for some guns.

Glock all the way...

hq
January 11, 2013, 08:19 PM
If your only experience is a 1911 or similar guns with the same 1911 grip angle, then it will take a little bit of psychological effort for you to like a Glock. Once you get over the hump, it hits you like a bolt of lightning -- Honey, where have you been all my life!! :)

The weirdest thing is that I've had the 17 for a long time. I polished the trigger back in 2011, but even after that it took me over a year to shoot it for the first time. I've shot other Glocks every now and then since the late 80's, my friends' guns, but that's been plinking and having fun, not on range shooting paper.

Personally, I have a couple of dozens of handguns. About half of them are 1911:s in single and double stack configurations, my first race gun was one a long time ago. I think I've just despised how the Glock feels so much that it has been gathering dust. While I don't consider myself a convert (yet?), there's no chance I'll leave the G17 home from now on when I'm heading to the range. They should ban these things or something, that little gun is as instantly addictive as a steel and plastic equivalent of a schedule 1 drug when you take it to the range.

And I still hate it. Officially, at least. :)

hentown
January 11, 2013, 08:28 PM
I'd strongly suggest an aftermarket 3.5# connector, e.g., Lonewolf, Ghost Ultimate, Glockworx (2#). Also I always polish all the mating surfaces of the firing mechanism. My Glock triggers pull from just over 3# to just under 4#, for my various Glocks.

S&W657
January 11, 2013, 08:30 PM
I always wanted a Glock since they first came out. Picked up a Gen3 22 a few years back and raved to my fellow gun-nut friends. My anti Glock neighbor/friend had raved about his Taurus 24/7 .45. I buried him effortlessly at the range...left him speechless and looking to trade off his taurus. Another guy at work who has about 20 more yrs of gun experience on me bashed my Glock as well. He was always loyal to 1911's and older steel frame Smith 45's. I ran into him at the range, and he hesitantely asked to shoot my Glock. He was so impressed, he went out and bought one in less than a week (which was a big deal because to say he's tight with $ is and understatement). He reluctantly admits it shoots better than his Kimber and newly purchased FNH.

psyopspec
January 11, 2013, 08:35 PM
They should ban these things or something

Funny, I just wrote my congressman a letter on that very topic. :uhoh:

jmr40
January 11, 2013, 09:26 PM
Glocks and 1911's have more in common than different. Both are among the most reliable pistols, both have the same trigger pull for every shot, and both were very inovative designs. The first 1911's had a flat MSH. The gun shot accurately enough, but soldiers during WW-1 complained of its un natural pointing and that it tended to shoot low during combat shooting.

The arched MSH's was added after WW-1 o change the grip angle and prevent the gun from shooting low and was standard on military guns until the Beretta was adopted. With the arched MSH a 1911 and Glocks grip angle are very similar. This is the more natual grip angle for combat type shooting. The straighter 1911 grip angle common today is probably better on a target gun.

Lots of guys complain about Glocks, but if you take the time to master one you'll understand it's advantages.

Of course I like my 1911's an awful lot too. In slow, carefully aimed fire I do shoot them more accuratly, but when shooting fast the Glocks get back on target faster and are more accurate.

SharpsDressedMan
January 11, 2013, 10:04 PM
I have a few guns that are pretty, others that I'm just plain sentimental about, etc. But if I was still a fighting man, I'd want to have my pair of Glock 10mm's, a G29 and G20, and a small satchel of ammo along for the ride in a combat zone, or even a civilian defensive situation. They are accurate, rugged, work every time, and simple to clean and maintain. I could substitute a G30 and G21, if I needed to abandon the 10mm for a more logistically-friendly cartridge. Everyone SHOULD own at least one Glock.

NWcityguy2
January 11, 2013, 11:08 PM
Be happy with your shooting skill, don't love or hate something just because it is popular and everyone should own at least one gun capable of shooting a 7 inch group at 25 yards. In my mind those are the major points of the story.

S&W-Keeper
January 11, 2013, 11:17 PM
Don't you hate it when that happens.

horsemen61
January 11, 2013, 11:22 PM
Yes I like my glock alot I didnt use to know i do

22-rimfire
January 12, 2013, 12:18 AM
I carry a revolver often, but if I am going somewhere because I have to and I am concerned for my safety (potentially), the G23 goes with me. You know why? I hit what I aim at and can do it consistantly and quickly. What is not to like about a black boxie Glock? It is THE gun I would choose for urban survival. What can I say?

hq
January 18, 2013, 05:36 PM
A week has passed. So has another thursday night range session.

I took the Glock with me once again, just to confirm that last week's incident wasn't a fluke and it appears it wasn't. Concentrating a bit and leaving a couple of seconds between shots it wasn't difficult at all to hold an offhand ten shot 2-3" circle @25m. Magazine after magazine. My eyesight isn't what it used to be and large sights seem to help a lot; I was barely capable of similar accuracy with a 6" S&W 17 and the small(ish) target sights required a bit of squinting.

I could use a good, thorough explanation about what's going on. And a cold shower to boot. I've never shot a (nearly) bone stock service pistol this well. Heck, not even my current and former race guns always either, sub 3" groups mean that I'm having a particularly good day. Oh well you live, you learn. For several years I've told people to put me out of my misery if I ever start sounding like a Glock fanboy and here we are.

From now on Glocks are officially hq approved.

WinThePennant
January 19, 2013, 09:05 AM
A week has passed. So has another thursday night range session.

I took the Glock with me once again, just to confirm that last week's incident wasn't a fluke and it appears it wasn't. Concentrating a bit and leaving a couple of seconds between shots it wasn't difficult at all to hold an offhand ten shot 2-3" circle @25m. Magazine after magazine. My eyesight isn't what it used to be and large sights seem to help a lot; I was barely capable of similar accuracy with a 6" S&W 17 and the small(ish) target sights required a bit of squinting.

I could use a good, thorough explanation about what's going on. And a cold shower to boot. I've never shot a (nearly) bone stock service pistol this well. Heck, not even my current and former race guns always either, sub 3" groups mean that I'm having a particularly good day. Oh well you live, you learn. For several years I've told people to put me out of my misery if I ever start sounding like a Glock fanboy and here we are.

From now on Glocks are officially hq approved.
As Lord Vader would say, "You know the power of the Dark Side."

Loc n Load
January 19, 2013, 09:30 AM
I have been carrying, shooting, instructing and maintaining service sidearms my entire career in law enforcement. My first issue side arm was a Smtih model 10 in 75. When I retired I was carrying a SIG 229 in 357 sig. I was issued a Glock 17 in the late 80's....it has a 3 digit SN...and is a first gen gun.
I have worked with most models that Glock sells, and own a bunch of them. My first 17 has had over 100,000 documented rds thru it, it has very little finish left on the slide, having been drawn and holstered a million times or so.
I try to avoid getting embroiled in Glock vs Sig, or 1911 or whatever. Cause to me, they are all tools in the tool box. And everybody has their preferences.
I have supervised firing lines for years, where thousands of rounds were put down range with Glocks. Some people love them, some hate them. Bottom line: they work, they are accurate, and extremely rugged. Have been thru a dozen police armorer schools on various pistols, some you need a tool box full of specialized tools and skill sets to maintain. With the Glock, you need a punch.
There is a reason that the Glock is so popular in Law Enforcement and in military circles. The UK just recently retired their Browning HP's and replaced them with G-17's. That speaks volumes. Enjoy ur Glock.

OptimusPrime
January 19, 2013, 09:40 AM
I agree with all above.
If I was a hand model and had to hold a pistol all day and just demonstrate how cool I look, it would be a Hi-Power.
If I have to shoot something, the Glock 21 is my preference.
Glocks. Shoot. Great.

pendennis
January 19, 2013, 10:26 AM
I've shot several different models of Glocks, and I used to own a Model 27. That small-framed gun just never felt right, despite the fact that I tried a number of magazine extensions, etc.

However, that all changed when I tried a Model 23. The slightly larger frame made a world of difference. I'm looking for a 2nd Gen model now.

Winthepennant hit it on the nose. It shoots better than it feels.

hq
January 19, 2013, 10:29 AM
The only thing I can do right now is to try to reason with myself. There are some definite advantages, as the finnish military switched over to G17:s in '09 and so far I've only qualified (reserve officer) with the old Browning HP over 20 years ago. Next rehearsal is going to be fun. So... I just got a Fobus-type paddle holster for Glock, I'll probably pick up a bunch of spare +2rd magazines next week and I've even found myself looking at Glockworks web page for a spring kit and a race connector.

HELP!!! :)

On a more serious note, this doesn't seem that much different from what has happened with a few other guns over the years. My hate list has shrunk quite a bit since mid 80's, mostly after impulse purchases and realization that they're not that bad after all, some have turned out to be very good.

wanderinwalker
January 19, 2013, 12:26 PM
Glocks just flat out work and shoot better than most shooters can appreciate. I wasn't a Glock fan when I got into pistol shooting (being raised on revolvers might do that to you) but the G-17 has become my favorite semi-auto. Lightweight, inexpensive, reliable, reasonably accurate and has plenty of ammo on board for follow-ups. What's not to like?

It always amazes me to think about how my G-17 full-up carries as many rounds as one of my S&Ws and two speedloaders. And reloading it requires a lot less dexterity. It's almost enough to make me hang up my .357s and dedicate my energies to the plastic fantastic. (Easy there, I said ALMOST... :p )

BigRugerLover
January 19, 2013, 12:27 PM
Yesterday I took a first-time (50+ yo) shooter to the range with eight different handguns in the suitable-for-home-defense category. He did great with the G35 and G19 and a lot less well with the very high end 1911, 92F, and others. He's gonna buy a Glock, if he can find one.

Buckeyeguy525
January 19, 2013, 05:15 PM
I guess I am one of those people who picked up a Glock and it just worked for me. And I think I am also one of he few people that actually like the trigger; I think its the best of all the polymer guns out there. I purchased my first 1911 last year after a few years of shooting Glocks and immediately sold the 1911. Nice trigger, but thats it. Compared to the simplicity of the point and shoot Glock, the 1911 is a very outdated design.

exdetsgt
January 19, 2013, 11:00 PM
A former law enforcement officer in California (a long time ago) I grew up on wheel guns - S&W Model 10 while in uniform, then when I made detective it was the J-frame and lastly the Model 19. Years later, retired and living in southeastern Arizona, I got cajoled into joining the Arizona Rangers. When I showed up for training the sergeant said, "We don't use revolvers any more, sir, we use Glocks." So I got a G17. A plastic pistol? I don't think so! I gotta qualify with this...THING....tomorrow?

Not only did I qualify with a new gun I'd never shot before and already hated, I shot 243 out of a possible 250. Over the years I've come to love ugly.

I finally sold the G17 to a newbie Ranger and got a G21SF and finally a G19 which, for some reason I shoot as well as my former G17 even though the 17 has a longer barrel. However, for me at least, the shorter barrel on the 19 permits concealed carry. Nice to have in one gun both duty carry and EDC. No switching between firearms any more.

Soldiernurse
January 20, 2013, 02:15 AM
I could not warm up to my G4 G26 & sold it. However, not too long ago bought NIB (w/x3 15rd mags) for $398 (LE/Mil price) G4 G19. Excellent trigger pull w/excellent results. I don't buy handguns because I think they "purdy". I select based on the feel in my hand, price:worthy ratio, does not matter to me popular or unpopular, and "recent" track record. Don't know why some folks hate on Glocks?

Peter M. Eick
January 20, 2013, 08:29 AM
I can relate. I bought my G20 back in 2000, sold it in 2005, bought it back this week because while it is plastic, it has aesthetic issues, it is dang reliable, reasonably accurate and works well as a truck gun.

Practical overruled aesthetics finally for me.

Inebriated
January 20, 2013, 08:47 AM
A few years ago, I really didn't like Glock... "Yeah, they work, but they're ugly and I don't like the way they feel" was pretty much my sentiments. Then I tried a 20, and started to like it, but never really committed to one. But that all changed when the Gen 4's came out.... They've been following me home more than any other type of pistol...

The Lone Haranguer
January 20, 2013, 09:01 AM
I "took to" my G19 right away, even the so-called looks, grip angle and staple gun trigger, compared to the DA/SA pistols and revolvers I had shot before.

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