Accessories for Zustava PAP m92 AK variant pistol


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ShooterGuy
January 11, 2013, 08:03 PM
I've read enough stories of people wasting money on rails and things that don't fit these PAP m92's to try and get some feedback before I grab some things for mine. Anyone got suggestions on what fits right, is the lightest weight, etc?

I'm looking for a new handguard with at least a bottom rail to mount a small vertical foregrip on. Looking for something quality, but light weight and fits right.

I've also cut the spot weld on the barrel shroud for a muzzle brake, any recommendations on one?

Thanks for any shared experience as usual.

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nipprdog
January 11, 2013, 08:08 PM
I'm looking for a new handguard with at least a bottom rail to mount a small vertical foregrip on.

Can't do that without getting the stamp from the ATF. ;)

ShooterGuy
January 11, 2013, 08:10 PM
I thought that was only if you SBR'd it with a stock?

762gunr
January 11, 2013, 08:12 PM
Can't do that without getting the stamp from the ATF. ;)
He's right but also being a troll. You need to put a 1913 type rail in place of the lower foregrip and use a grip that way. Obviously you would never leave it mounted with a grip or fire it at the range like that.

Girodin
January 12, 2013, 01:28 AM
He is not being a troll, he is informing someone they would be making an AOW when they put the VFG on a pistol and thus committing a crime that carries fairly steep penalties, if that any other weapon was not properly registered with the ATF and the applicable tax paid.

Putting a VFG on a pistol is in the eyes of the ATF making an AOW. Making an NFA weapon is in essence the same as making an SBR.

762gunr, its not clear to me what you are saying, but it sounds a bit like you are advocating that he mount a VFG. Advocating committing serious crimes is not highroad, even if the laws are pretty stupid (and even somewhat legally dubious).

Rob G
January 12, 2013, 02:36 AM
OP, Midwest Industries makes a railed handguard that will fit your M92. I'm not sure how light it is compared to the competition but I've seen them on before and they seem to fit well.

However as some have noted putting a vertical fore grip of any kind on a pistol makes it an SBR, which if unregistered earns you a minimum 10 year stay in club Fed and a $250k fine. However the BATFE has ruled that an Angled foregrip such as the one made by Magpul may be placed on a pistol without making it an SBR.

Girodin
January 12, 2013, 03:25 AM
which if unregistered earns you a minimum 10 year stay in club Fed and a $250k fine.

I'm not sure that it is a 10 year minimum mandatory. Do you have a citation for it. I'm not doubting per se, just saying I don't know that to be the case. I'd have to look it up. It is probably a different charge but rapper T.I. for example got a year and 1 day for possessing unlawfully machine guns and suppressors (and he was a convicted felon already to boot). Surely his light sentence was because of his celebrity. Which is such BS, but whatever. I have seen other "normal" folks get five years simply for being a restricted person in possession of a run of the mill firearm, to say nothing of the machine gun and suppressor stuff. However, if there were a minimum mandatory for what he pleaded to he would have had to serve it.

However the BATFE has ruled that an Angled foregrip such as the one made by Magpul may be placed on a pistol without making it an SBR.

The BATF has done no such thing. You are seriously overstating what has occurred. What has happened is that there have been some letters sent out from the various ATF tech branch employees offering the opinion that a VFG does not make the gun an AOW the same way a VFG does. This is not a ruling. It is not binding. It is not the law per se. It is an opinion that does not carry the force of law. It gives an indication as to their current intent concerning enforcement. However, it is also an opinion that they could change tomorrow. Also remember the head of the executive branch has basically promised to do whatever he can to take on guns. With the obvious challenges to taking legislative action who knows what he will push for through executive agencies.

For further discussion on ATF letters and the AFG on a pistol see http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8623003#post8623003

lefteyedom
January 12, 2013, 03:51 AM
Put in the paperwork, pay the $200, wait 9 months and then build it the way you want it.

I have been looking at spending $400 in stamps to build M92 SBR with a suppressor...

of course the cost factor starts to get over the top fast.

M-92 $1350
Suppressor 900
stock 150
red dot 200
Gunsmithing 200
tax stamps 400

total $2200

nipprdog
January 12, 2013, 06:56 AM
He's right but also being a troll.

:rolleyes:

Junior, you're calling someone who's been here 8 years a troll?

:rolleyes:

Inebriated
January 12, 2013, 07:24 AM
OP, abandon the foregrip idea, unless you SBR it. No sense in rolling the dice on this, for a slight functional gain.

Best upgrades for the gun in my opinion (short of SBR'ing) would be a nice grip, Tapco G2 trigger group, and a micro dot of some flavor, mounted to a Midwest Industries/US Palm handguard mount. You will get the most functionality out of the gun with a red dot, and having a smaller/lighter dot will keep the gun from becoming TOO unbalanced.

Adam123
January 12, 2013, 12:28 PM
He's right but also being a troll.

He is being helpful and informative.

Sebastian the Ibis
January 12, 2013, 12:48 PM
Going back to the OP's question. I like the look of U.S. Machine gun's stuff:

http://www.usmachinegun.com/products.php?cat=72

However, I have not tried it.

I also plan on getting a Krink break.

If I decide to hang onto my Yugo

ShooterGuy
January 12, 2013, 02:03 PM
Wow, lots of good info and I'm glad a bit more education was shared regarding law specific consideration. I was under the impression it wasn't SBR unless it had a stock so I would have literally slapped a VFG on not thought twice about it (at least until I received a nice friendly reminder from someone official I imagine.)

I think I may look into the tax stamp though just because. One thing I don't understand entirely, is does something like this still count as SBR since it can be removed and attached easily?

http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=PAP-SAAR

I've already plopped a standard Hogue grip on it since I'm personally not a fan of non-fitted, non-rubberized grips for comfort and do that to just about all my rifles with vertical grips. Was also wondering about the benefits of say a krink break or one of those multi-piece brake kits vs something like;

http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=YGO-MB

I guess it will be an ongoing brainstorm while I decide what can and cant be done. I would like to find some absolute clarification on whether a slanted fore grip is do-able without problems or not since I still find conflicting info on it. I just dont like having my wrist wrenched almost 90 degrees while so close to the trigger group...

Girodin
January 14, 2013, 06:23 PM
One thing I don't understand entirely, is does something like this still count as SBR since it can be removed and attached easily?


Yes, if you put a stock on it. Even if you can easily remove the stock afterwards, putting it on your particular gun (because it has a barrel that is less than 16") would make it an SBR. If you do not fill out the paper work and get a tax stamp first that makes it an unregistered SBR and is a felony.

Was also wondering about the benefits of say a krink break or one of those multi-piece brake kits vs something like;

The muzzle device you have linked to there is a flash hider and works very differently than a brake. Also, not trying to be a jerk, just an FYI, the proper terms is a muzzle brake not a break. Brakes and compensators work to reduce felt recoil and muzzle rise. To me their main advantage on a gun like yours is to reduce muzzle rise and to reduce the split time between aimed shots. The down side of a brake is that the increase, flash, blast, and noise. This is particularly true from the perspective of some one to the sides of the gun. A flash hider on the other hand does just what its name says, it reduces the muzzle flash and signature. I'm not sure if you've fired yours at night, but my experience with short AKs is they have a pretty serious flash that is blinding to the shooter if fired in really low light.

The 4 piece Bulgarian brakes were largely used to increase back pressure and make a very short gun more reliable. I really doubt you will see any benefit in that regard. They also help to direct blast down range and away from the shooter and those around them. They, as far as I can tell, are not great at recoil/muzzle rise mitigation. Nor are they that great at hiding flash. In fact they often shoot out impressive flames. There is a reason the Noveske KX3 which is HEAVILY inspired by the Bulgarian 4 piece brakes is called "the flaming pig."

The bulgy brakes just look awesome. However, they are both long and heavy. They add inches and a lot of ounces. All that weight is put in a pretty bad place too, right at the end of the muzzle. Honestly, I tend to think one would be better off simply adding 3-3.5" more barrel than the Bulgy 4 piece. In sum, they aren't cheap, they don't offer great performance in terms of flash suppression or recoil/muzzle rise mitigation and they come with a very heavy weight and length penalty.

That is just my take.

Quiet
January 14, 2013, 10:53 PM
Clarification:

Title 1 handgun + shoulder stock = Title 2 SBR
Title 1 handgun + vertical forward grip = Title 2 AOW


Unless you have BATFE approval to make a SBR, it is illegal to attach a shoulder stock to a Title 1 handgun.

Unless you have BATFE approval to make an AOW, it is illegal to attach a vertical forward grip to a Title 1 handgun.

BATFE NFA Branch has always stated that it is legal to attach a horizontal forward grip to a Title 1 handgun and they have recently stated that it is legal to attach an angled forward grip (Magpul AFG) to a Title 1 handgun.

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