Best Combat/Defense Pistol


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TFIT
January 11, 2013, 08:30 PM
A few months ago I asked for opinions on the best combat/defense pistol. I got a lot of good replies, and a few idiots as well, and I have settled on my two. I tested numerous platforms to include Kel-Tec, Sig, S&W M&P, Steyr, Colt, Springfield, BHP, H&K, Beretta, and Glock in calibers .380, 9mm, .40 and .45. I also worked with distances of 5 to 15 yards.

For primary carry, I chose the Glock 17 Gen4. Believe it or not, it is rather easy to conceal with the Bianchi Model 100 IWB holster. I am right handed and I got the left hand holster so that I can wear it in the small of my back and draw the pistol with my right hand. It is a very nice quality holster for about $40. I also love the new trigger system and new double spring system for recoil. I actually shot my way out of the DA/SA models b/c I got so proficient with the Glock constant trigger pull that I was not giving the other DA pistol triggers enough time to reset before I was trying to pull the trigger again. I can pull the Glock trigger quickly and I am accurate!!!

I also purchased the new reproduction GI model 1911-A1 from Springfield Armory. It is a really neat pistol, and shoots like a dream! Both of these weapons have very quick trigger resets, and for me, the recoil is very managable. I have just gone completely away from the .40 all together, and from what I'm hearing so are a lot of police departments. Most important thing is hits...shots on target, and it seems most are coming to realize they get better shot placement with the 9mm with a longer barrel. But let's be honest...any gun enthusiast just loves the .45. :-)

Well, I'm still open to getting opinions with valid reasons for personal choice, but I think most will agree that the absolute best combat/defense pistol is the one you are best with. One friend said get the biggest caliber you can handle and conceal, and get proficient with it. And, don't make it your only pistol! :-)

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rcmodel
January 11, 2013, 08:37 PM
But, some wise man once said:

Beware the man with one gun.
Because he probably knows how to use it!

Me? I should talk though!

rc

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 08:39 PM
But, some wise man once said:

Beware the man with one gun.
Because he probably knows how to use it!

Me? I should talk though!

rc
In fact, that is exactly what my friend said, and I tend to think he's right. ;-)

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 09:03 PM
Incidentally, I read an article today where the British Armed Services just purchased 25K Glock 17 Gen4 pistols to replace their current issue weapon. I found that very interesting, and will probably lead the way to the US doing the same upon their next replacement. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I tend to think it is a good one. :-)

rcmodel
January 11, 2013, 09:28 PM
Not gonna happen in the U.S. Military unless they have a change of heart in real Safety safety's after 100 years, and a No Safety reprogramming training program.

If the rank & file British military who are issued pistols are ever issued ammunition, we will hear more about that later.

rc

C0untZer0
January 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
Why in the world would the the U.S. military switch to Glocks because the Brits did?

Where is the logic in that?

David E
January 11, 2013, 09:33 PM
Beware the man with one gun.
Because he probably knows how to use it!

Maybe was true once upon a time. Not so much anymore.

Nowadays, the guy that just owns one gun has fired 6-15 shots thru it, if at all.

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 10:45 PM
Not gonna happen in the U.S. Military unless they have a change of heart in real Safety safety's after 100 years, and a No Safety reprogramming training program.

If the rank & file British military who are issued pistols are ever issued ammunition, we will hear more about that later.

rc
Stranger things have happened.

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 10:47 PM
Why in the world would the the U.S. military switch to Glocks because the Brits did?

Where is the logic in that?
I don't know, perhaps if the US sees they do so successfully? Do you have any idea where the US Navy got the design for its current aircraft carrier fleet? The British. Who trained the US military in jungle warfare for Vietnam? The British. Who has one of the most elite special forces organizations in the entire world? The British SAS. Why would you think the British are not worthy of emulation? They are highly intelligent and extremely proficient operators.

Anyone who knows anything about handguns knows that Glocks are reliable, durable, and safe. With proper training, surely these weapons can be incorporated. By the way, I spent 12 years on active duty (worked with the BAF) and currently serve in the reserves, so I do have a little knowledge of such things and weapons training. :-)

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 10:54 PM
Maybe was true once upon a time. Not so much anymore.

Nowadays, the guy that just owns one gun has fired 6-15 shots thru it, if at all.
You're right! Today, most gun owners "have a gun" just b/c someone told them to get one b/c the government is going to take them away!!! It really scares me to think of those people taking guns into the street, although it is their right to do so. If you're going to own one know how to use one is my motto.

wlewisiii
January 11, 2013, 11:13 PM
Well, not every one "loves" the 1911. Had one in the Army & find I much prefer .45 Colt in my 625 Mountain Gun instead. I'd rather rely on it than any 1911 I was ever issued.

But that's me, not you. If you enjoy that Springfield, then it's in the right hands.

TFIT
January 11, 2013, 11:31 PM
Well, not every one "loves" the 1911. Had one in the Army & find I much prefer .45 Colt in my 625 Mountain Gun instead. I'd rather rely on it than any 1911 I was ever issued.

But that's me, not you. If you enjoy that Springfield, then it's in the right hands.
To be fair, I said most gun enthusiasts love the .45...not necessarily the "1911". That said, the 1911 frame does fit my hand perfectly, and I do like it a lot. I also liked the M&P .45 quite a bit. I was actually looking for another one when I bought the 1911. I am a striker fired pistol fan mainly b/c I like the constant trigger pull without having to operate the manual safety on the 1911/BHP. Both of those weapons are awesome, but there is just something to be said for being able to draw and fire without any other action. Granted those who are trained and experienced on the 1911 and/or BHP do that as 2nd nature, but not everyone is trained/experienced on those platforms.

wlewisiii
January 11, 2013, 11:40 PM
The whole point of my comment was that I was trained on the 1911. The BHP is a better all around design but I'd still prefer an N frame revolver if I had to go in harm's way. Constant trigger pull, no safety to remember & far fewer malfunctions, though I'll admit that those malfunctions that do exist tend to take the weapon out of action for the duration of a combat despite Mr. Cunningham's excellent revolver drills.

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 01:20 AM
The whole point of my comment was that I was trained on the 1911. The BHP is a better all around design but I'd still prefer an N frame revolver if I had to go in harm's way. Constant trigger pull, no safety to remember & far fewer malfunctions, though I'll admit that those malfunctions that do exist tend to take the weapon out of action for the duration of a combat despite Mr. Cunningham's excellent revolver drills.
No offense intended, it was just that the 1911 wasn't the point of my statement. I was referring to the .45 caliber, not the 1911 platform. There are a number of platorms chambered for the .45, but again, I was referring to enthusiasts loving the round itself rather than any one platform. On the subject of a revolver being a good choice for combat...true they are simple and you have no safety to worry about, but you are severly limited in the scope of ammunition, and as you pointed out so well, when one malfunctions it's done. Perhaps as a back up weapon, but with the current day choices of torture tested platforms like the Glock, Sig, HK and the like it just doesn't make much sense to even consider a revolver for combat scenarios. Really not even for personal defense unless you're just old school. Not really even then. The DA constant trigger pull on most revolvers is at least twice as far as any striker fired pistol available, and if you want a simple weapon with no external safety to fool with, Glock is the way to go. In fact, most striker fired pistols have no external safety, and are fairly simple to operate. The S&W M&P comes to mind as does the FNS, although civilian models are fitted with an external safety in the attempt to capture those who insist one is necessary. It isn't if you know what you're doing, but still...some folks still think it's necessary for safety. :-)

No, I have revolvers and would use them only if nothing esle was available. For me, nothing beats the Glock. I do like the BHP as much as the 1911, but find that is a personal preference as well. You really can't go wrong with either one, unless you just can't stand them. After working with the Glock Gen4 I am sold 100%! Nothing at all against the other models. Just the Glock works best for me. All the best!

Chris-bob
January 12, 2013, 02:18 AM
You're right! Today, most gun owners "have a gun" just b/c someone told them to get one b/c the government is going to take them away!!! It really scares me to think of those people taking guns into the street, although it is their right to do so. If you're going to own one know how to use one is my motto.
I'd rather have half the people on the street armed with their 'one' gun and have the criminals worried to death, than be the only one armed at all. But as you implied, it would be nice if everyone that carried was well trained.

MrBorland
January 12, 2013, 09:40 AM
On the subject of a revolver being a good choice for combat...

If you're interested in combat, step away from your keyboard and Xbox and join the military; in which case any discussion on a "choice" of combat pistol/caliber is largely moot. Beyond this, the revolver remains, among others, a viable option as a weapon for personal defense.

David E
January 12, 2013, 10:51 AM
I asked for opinions on the best combat/defense pistol. I tested numerous platforms.

I chose the Glock 17 Gen4. It is easy to conceal with the Bianchi IWB holster. I am right handed and I got the left hand holster so that I can wear it in the small of my back and draw the pistol with my right hand.

If I'm picturing this right, you're doing a "palm out, cavalry twist draw." If so, you're likely pointing the gun at your pelvis during the draw. :eek: Even if you're not, it's not a very fast draw.

I shot my way out of the DA/SA models b/c I was not giving the other DA pistol triggers enough time to reset before I was trying to pull the trigger again.

Again, if I read this right, you're saying that YOU are ready to shoot, but you're waiting on the gun to finish cycling from the previous shot? (either the slide or the trigger mechanism) If you're saying the slide, you're wrong. If you're saying the trigger won't reset fast enough, then there's something wrong with it. However my bet is, since you're used to the short reset of the Glock, you're short stroking the DA triggers.

I can pull the Glock trigger quickly and I am accurate!!!

Sounds like you found "your" gun! No small thing, that. How fast and how accurate are you talking?

tcanthonyii
January 12, 2013, 12:54 PM
The best gun is the one you like, shoot well and shoot often. That said you really can't beat the out of the box reliability of a Glock, M&P and XD.

T.C.

buck460XVR
January 12, 2013, 01:30 PM
The best gun is the one you like, shoot well and shoot often.

Yep and it's the reason one gets so many different answers when folks post a "which is best?" thread. Truth is, there is no best, not for everyone in every scenario. TFIT, if you're happy and satisfied with your choices, good for you.

481
January 12, 2013, 06:03 PM
Well, I'm still open to getting opinions with valid reasons for personal choice, but I think most will agree that the absolute best combat/defense pistol is the one you are best with.

"Best" is subjective.

Get what works for you.

Practice, invest in some quality training.

The real weapon is your brain; make sure you have good "software" on board, too.

David E
January 12, 2013, 06:06 PM
The best gun is the one you like, shoot well and shoot often.

T.C.

What if the gun you like, shoot well and shoot often is a Stevens Favorite single shot chambered in .22 Short?

jimbo555
January 12, 2013, 06:39 PM
My s&w airweight is the gun I like to carry the best,but my m&p9 fs is the one I shoot the best. So I carry them both!

dicky r
January 12, 2013, 07:29 PM
THE best gun is always the one you have on you when you absolutely, positively, have to have a gun. Thus endeth the lesson.

David E
January 12, 2013, 09:43 PM
THE best gun is always the one you have on you when you absolutely, positively, have to have a gun. Thus endeth the lesson.

Not so fast.

Most of us can carry any gun we want to......but many choose a gun ONLY because it's easy to carry, not because it's particularly effective or because person is skilled with it. He may not be. The NAA mini-revolvers come to mind, as do sightless .380's.

Granted, any gun with you beats any gun not, but that doesn't mean all gun choices are smart ones or that all guns and calibers are equally effective.

I, for one, wouldn't be anxious to take on a nut case with an AK in a dark theater with my NAA in .22 Short.

tcanthonyii
January 12, 2013, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcanthonyii
The best gun is the one you like, shoot well and shoot often.

T.C.
What if the gun you like, shoot well and shoot often is a Stevens Favorite single shot chambered in .22 Short?

Then you're better off with that one than no gun. Probably not worst choice in firearms history though. But if you're a good shot you can TCB.

I'm laughing as I type this but I know there's people that do carry a .22.

ArchAngelCD
January 12, 2013, 10:02 PM
A full size 1911...

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 11:08 PM
If I'm picturing this right, you're doing a "palm out, cavalry twist draw." If so, you're likely pointing the gun at your pelvis during the draw. :eek: Even if you're not, it's not a very fast draw.



Again, if I read this right, you're saying that YOU are ready to shoot, but you're waiting on the gun to finish cycling from the previous shot? (either the slide or the trigger mechanism) If you're saying the slide, you're wrong. If you're saying the trigger won't reset fast enough, then there's something wrong with it. However my bet is, since you're used to the short reset of the Glock, you're short stroking the DA triggers.



Sounds like you found "your" gun! No small thing, that. How fast and how accurate are you talking?
I carry the gun in the small of my back, so you would be right. I'm not looking to have an incredibly fast draw. Hopefully, I'll never have to! Having said that, I have carried the weapon in just about every possible position over the years, and from my experience, anything worn under clothing is going to be somewhat of a "slow" draw. I would hope I can talk my way out of any encounter, but at the end of the day, if someone approaches you with a weapon drawn and bearing down on you, you'll be lucky to make it out alive anyway. I choose to carry in the small of the back for comfort and concealability.

WRT how fast I pull the trigger and accuracy, at distances ranging form 5 to 15 yards, I am able to put all my shots in center mass and can discharge 10 rounds within five seconds +/-. Bear in mind when I say center mass, I am talking about full-sized man targets from the waist line to the shoulders, and side to side (inside arms). Most of my hits are upper region with a few stragglers below absolute center target. Obviously a little tighter groups at closer range. With this work, I'm not taking time to aim. I'm just pointing and shooting with both eyes open.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the slide or any other part of the DA weapon (Sig P226 MK 25). After significant time on the range, I just figured out I was pulling the trigger before it had time to reset. I didn't have that problem before working with the Glock Gen4, but afterwards, I noticed I was in fact short stroking the Sig. It is all me, not the weapon. I started to work with the Sig to break the short stroking, but then it hit me...bruh, if you're as accurate and comfortable with the Glock as you are the Sig, why bother! I like the low profile of the Glock...it's easier to conceal, and I am proficient with it. No brainer, uh! I also noticed this does not happen with the 1911; however, I'm just not quite as accurate with the 1911. I manage the recoil of the 9MM much better than the .45, but I sure do love the way that 1911 fits my hand, and when I slow down a little, I am as accurate. But, at the end of the day, I carry the G17...I am just more comfortable with it. I've gotten used to the Glock's constant trigger pull, and I am most proficient with it. :-)

Now, if I am deployed, I'll have to work with the M9...I'll cross that bridge when I get there. With any luck, I'll never have to use it...which means I'll be able to satisfy any encounter with my M4. ;-)

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 11:11 PM
If you're interested in combat, step away from your keyboard and Xbox and join the military; in which case any discussion on a "choice" of combat pistol/caliber is largely moot. Beyond this, the revolver remains, among others, a viable option as a weapon for personal defense.
Nice attempt at cleverness jackass. I served 12 years on active duty, and now serve in the reserves. Perhaps next time you will consider the fact you do not know everything before you pressume you do. Please, spare me your idiotic opinions.

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 11:12 PM
What if the gun you like, shoot well and shoot often is a Stevens Favorite single shot chambered in .22 Short?
LOL!!! Get good at reloading? Good one!

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 11:14 PM
THE best gun is always the one you have on you when you absolutely, positively, have to have a gun. Thus endeth the lesson.
Yeah, that always sounds better in the head, but the truth is most people will never encounter that scenario. Realistically speaking, I'm looking for personal opinions from experience with a specific weapon. Thanks, though!

TFIT
January 12, 2013, 11:16 PM
Yep and it's the reason one gets so many different answers when folks post a "which is best?" thread. Truth is, there is no best, not for everyone in every scenario. TFIT, if you're happy and satisfied with your choices, good for you.
Thanks for your input! Sometimes it's just good to know your own perspective is on point. :-)

C0untZer0
January 12, 2013, 11:50 PM
If we were going to copy the British then we would have switched to BHPs a long time ago - instead of the Beretta...

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 02:35 AM
If we were going to copy the British then we would have switched to BHPs a long time ago - instead of the Beretta...
You idiot! It isn't about copying the British. It's about money. The US Armed Forces issue the Beretta M9 for one reason. Beretta won a bidding war. However, the US has been considering replacing the M9 for several years now. A number of platforms have been considered for this replacement, one of which is the Glock 17 9MM. They have been considering reaplacing the M9 for a number of reasons, but mainly due to cost. If you really knew anything about it, you would at the least acknowledge this; however, you continue to submit unqualified opinions. The M9 is a very large and finicky weapon that requires a lot of maintenance which takes time and money. The Glock, however, does not require a significant amount of maintance, and the cost is far less than the Beretta. I know traditional thinking says the US will never issue a weapon with no external safety, but the truth is they already do. It is the Sig P226. Granted this weapon is issued to special operators, but it was also the 2nd runner up to the Beretta losing only due to cost, not b/c of no external safety. Training will take care of new technology. Money wins every time!

When it all comes down to it, Glocks are far less expensive than Berettas or Sigs, and with the way the economy is going for the US, it would not be surprising to see the USAF eventually go with a proven pistol such as the Glock. It really has little to do with copying the British as much as it has to do with economics and politics, but to say we don't copy the British is simply stupid when we have worked with, received technology and taken training from them so many times in the past. Suffice it to say you have no idea what you're talking about.

David E
January 13, 2013, 03:11 AM
I carry the gun in the small of my back, so you would be right. I'm not looking to have an incredibly fast draw. Hopefully, I'll never have to! Having said that, I have carried the weapon in just about every possible position over the years, and from my experience, anything worn under clothing is going to be somewhat of a "slow" draw. I would hope I can talk my way out of any encounter, but at the end of the day, if someone approaches you with a weapon drawn and bearing down on you, you'll be lucky to make it out alive anyway. I choose to carry in the small of the back for comfort and concealability.

Even if the draw itself is dangerous? Interesting.

WRT how fast I pull the trigger and accuracy, at distances ranging form 5 to 15 yards, I am able to put all my shots in center mass and can discharge 10 rounds within five seconds +/-. Bear in mind when I say center mass, I am talking about full-sized man targets from the waist line to the shoulders, and side to side (inside arms) With this work, I'm not taking time to aim. I'm just pointing and shooting with both eyes open.

With all due respect, you're not doing it right.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the slide or any other part of the DA weapon (Sig P226 MK 25). After significant time on the range, I just figured out I was pulling the trigger before it had time to reset.

Again, with all due respect, you weren't. Above, you cited splits (time between shots) of 1/2second, or .5 The gun cycles in about .05, so your ability to pull the trigger is ten times slower than the gun cycles. Your later assessment of short-stroking the trigger is correct.

I like the low profile of the Glock...it's easier to conceal, and I am proficient with it.

Well, that's why they make Fords and Chevys, too! It sucks to fight your own equipment when you don't have to. Many don't realize that they are, then wonder why they never get better.

Roadking Rider
January 13, 2013, 07:23 AM
There is no best ,only opinions.
The best choices for me would be a full size 1911 45acp , CZ75b 9mm, or CZPO-1 9mm. There are a lot of good pistols out there in todays market but those three are my favorite simply because there reliable and I shoot them the best

MrBorland
January 13, 2013, 09:54 AM
Chill, TFIT.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but being new on THR, I respectfully ask you to re-read the THR rules before resorting to any further name-calling, or trouncing others for their opinion. A moderator will likely be along make it clearer for you.

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 12:46 PM
Chill, TFIT.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but being new on THR, I respectfully ask you to re-read the THR rules before resorting to any further name-calling, or trouncing others for their opinion. A moderator will likely be along make it clearer for you.
You know, there is always someone like you who seems to think they have a better grip on things than anyone else. Sure, you have a right to your opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion right. Perhaps in giving yours you could figure out a better way to do so. In other words, stop trying to be so clever or cute with silly statements such as "if you want combat step away from your xbox". What, did you really think that was funny? Come on bruh...perhaps you should chill and think before you offer your opinion. This is a written forum, not a public meeting room where we exchange ideas in person, so you really don't come across the way you might think. Just food for thought.

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 12:52 PM
Even if the draw itself is dangerous? Interesting.



With all due respect, you're not doing it right.



Again, with all due respect, you weren't. Above, you cited splits (time between shots) of 1/2second, or .5 The gun cycles in about .05, so your ability to pull the trigger is ten times slower than the gun cycles. Your later assessment of short-stroking the trigger is correct.



Well, that's why they make Fords and Chevys, too! It sucks to fight your own equipment when you don't have to. Many don't realize that they are, then wonder why they never get better.
No offense taken. If you have some recommendations, I'm always open to it. Maybe I wasn't communicating my experiences accurately enough, but I think we agree what I was doing was short stroking the Sig. In my mind, with my limited knowledge of trigger resets, it just made sense to me that that is what was happening...in short, short stroking is not giving the trigger enough time to reset. Is that inaccurate?

On the carry position, I can't tell you exactly how I would draw in a given situation, and I can see your point on the danger aspect. My natural draw, when not under duress, is to bring it out free and clear from the body, but I'll concede that may very well change depending on the encounter. Give me some recommendations!

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 12:54 PM
There is no best ,only opinions.
The best choices for me would be a full size 1911 45acp , CZ75b 9mm, or CZPO-1 9mm. There are a lot of good pistols out there in todays market but those three are my favorite simply because there reliable and I shoot them the best
As you probably read, I do love the 1911 .45. Great pistol! I also like the CZ75...that is one well designed and proven pistol as well. I also agree with your input. It is what works best for YOU. That is what my experience has proven to me, and it is backed up by the many I've talked with, such as yourself. Thanks for your input bro!

460Kodiak
January 13, 2013, 01:13 PM
short stroking is not giving the trigger enough time to reset. Is that inaccurate?


It isn't so much a time thing, as it is that you are not allowing the trigger to reset all the way before pulling the trigger again. The mechanism is not cycling fully.

I short stroked a Ruger LCR in the store, so I went with a S&W 642 instead. Trigger worked better for me.

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 01:36 PM
It isn't so much a time thing, as it is that you are not allowing the trigger to reset all the way before pulling the trigger again. The mechanism is not cycling fully.

I short stroked a Ruger LCR in the store, so I went with a S&W 642 instead. Trigger worked better for me.
Yeah, I guess that is what I'm saying...it isn't a "timing" think as much as "room" thing...not giving the trigger enough room to reset before I'm trying to depress it again. Hurt my feelings too b/c I have been partial to P226 for a long time. At any rate, I guess it is a moot point since I've finally decided to go with the G17. Can't go wrong with either weapon...as long as it is the right weapon for you given the choice.

buck460XVR
January 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
Nice attempt at cleverness jackass.

While we all are entitled to our opinions, name calling is not really the "High Road". MrBorland is very knowledgeable and highly respected here on THR. While he, like many of us sometimes makes a assumption that is not accurate, two wrongs never a right makes. While many here may not share your personal opinion of what is "the best", and why you believe their firearms are not worthy, none have resorted to name calling.

......just sayin'.

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 02:17 PM
While we all are entitled to our opinions, name calling is not really the "High Road". MrBorland is very knowledgeable and highly respected here on THR. While he, like many of us sometimes makes a assumption that is not accurate, two wrongs never a right makes. While many here may not share your personal opinion of what is "the best", and why you believe their firearms are not worthy, none have resorted to name calling.

......just sayin'.
Buck, I'm not going to argue on the high road. Simply stated, you're right, but I don't think I have belittled anyone's opinion on a specific firearm. The only reason I responded to the guy the way I did is b/c I took his comments as silly and denigrating. Thanks for your input, but I'm a grown man just like you. If he wants respect let him give it. Just sayin...

David E
January 13, 2013, 08:01 PM
In my mind, with my limited knowledge of trigger resets, it just made sense to me that that is what was happening...in short, short stroking is not giving the trigger enough time to reset. Is that inaccurate?

Yes, that's inaccurate. Short stroking the trigger means you're not letting it come forward far enough to mechanically reset. Time has nothing to do with it.

hso
January 13, 2013, 09:00 PM
the absolute best combat/defense pistol is the one you are best with

And goes BANG every time.

Everything else is just foolish favoritism.

TFIT
January 13, 2013, 10:25 PM
Yes, that's inaccurate. Short stroking the trigger means you're not letting it come forward far enough to mechanically reset. Time has nothing to do with it.
Understood...thanks for your input! Enjoyable.

C0untZer0
January 13, 2013, 10:55 PM
TFIT said I read an article today where the British Armed Services just purchased 25K Glock 17 Gen4 pistols to replace their current issue weapon. I found that very interesting, and will probably lead the way to the US doing the same upon their next replacement.And I said:

Why in the world would the the U.S. military switch to Glocks because the Brits did?... If we were going to copy the British then we would have switched to BHPs a long time ago - instead of the Beretta...

IMO you haven't explained your logic, you've said it isn't about copying the British, but some how their adoption "will lead the way to the US doing the same upon their next replacement".

How is their adoption of any sidearm going to affect what sidearm is used by our military?

easyg
January 13, 2013, 10:56 PM
Even if the draw itself is dangerous? Interesting.
There's nothing dangerous about drawing from the small of the back if you practice doing it correctly.
Reach back and grasp the pistol grip, unholster with an upward motion, once the pistol has cleared the holster extend your arm downward keeping the barrel pointed toward the ground, swing your arm and the pistol in a very slight arc around your hip and up to a shooting position.
If you do this, at no time will you ever sweep your own body while drawing.
And with practice it becomes smooth and surprisingly fast.

As for what's the best combat/defense pistol....

For COMBAT (and I mean war) I would have to recommend a high capacity 9mm pistol like the Glock 17 or the XD 9.
When one is going to war one expects to fight many many enemy combatants.
So capacity is important...more rounds between reloads is better than less rounds between reloads.

For self defense capacity is not quite as important.

David E
January 14, 2013, 01:03 AM
There's nothing dangerous about drawing from the small of the back if you practice doing it correctly.

Using the palm out cavalry twist draw results with the person likely pointing the gun at their pelvis during the draw, so I hope the practice is done in earnest. And, as I said in Post #17, even if you're not pointing the gun at yourself, it's a slow draw.

Reach back and grasp the pistol grip, unholster with an upward motion, once the pistol has cleared the holster extend your arm downward keeping the barrel pointed toward the ground, swing your arm and the pistol in a very slight arc around your hip and up to a shooting position.

That's a lot to do properly when micro-seconds count.....


And with practice it becomes smooth and surprisingly fast.

It's faster and more consistent to draw palm-in from a 3-4 o'clock position, not to mention faster. As an example, my fastest draw using a 5" Colt 1911 from an IWB BraveHeart rig from concealment starting with my hand on the jacket front was a witnessed .73

easyg
January 14, 2013, 02:33 AM
That's a lot to do properly when micro-seconds count.....
Not really. It just takes practice.

It's faster and more consistent to draw palm-in from a 3-4 o'clock position, not to mention faster. As an example, my fastest draw using a 5" Colt 1911 from an IWB BraveHeart rig from concealment starting with my hand on the jacket front was a witnessed .73
I can draw and shoot in 1 second, so you're definitely faster than I am, but not by much.
Besides, speed isn't everything.

I've carried at the 3-4 o'clock position before and hated it.
I've spent lots of money trying various different holsters but it still sucked....especially with a full sized pistol.
It's very uncomfortable to me and also looks like I have a colostomy bag or a tumor on my side.

Robert
January 14, 2013, 07:35 AM
Insults and arguing... This is done and should have been a few days ago.

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