32 North American Arms


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Brass Fetcher
January 12, 2013, 06:50 AM
Overview of 32NAA cartridge gelatin penetration, velocity and expansion versus 380ACP. Also includes footage of a SIG P238, with 32NAA barrel, firing in normal and slow motion.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=177540&stc=1&d=1357991317 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN0JnDn7OC4)

Clicking on the image opens the Youtube video.

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chicharrones
January 13, 2013, 01:02 AM
Thanks for the video.

I thought that cartridge was all but dead, but I guess not. :)

kokapelli
January 13, 2013, 09:09 AM
Just an observation and nothing to do with the subject, but I'm always glad to see an example of what a wonderful shooter the P238 is, especially since one of our members tried so hard to convince everyone that the P238 was a flawed design.

Since the 380 starts out as a larger bullet than the 32, it must also be larger when expanded which I assume would limit penetration to some extent.

When the 32NAA first appeared I wondered what is the point since it may be faster but is a smaller round to begin with than the 380.

Brass Fetcher
January 13, 2013, 09:24 PM
Just an observation and nothing to do with the subject, but I'm always glad to see an example of what a wonderful shooter the P238 is, especially since one of our members tried so hard to convince everyone that the P238 was a flawed design.

I should write a book titled, "Arguing Handguns : To Each His Own" :). I chose the P238 for the conversion because the gun is selling like hotcakes across the US and our primary concern is to support the law-abiding gun owner with relevant and factual information about their ammunition and firearms. There are plenty of other good guns that can be converted to 32NAA.

Since the 380 starts out as a larger bullet than the 32, it must also be larger when expanded which I assume would limit penetration to some extent.

When the 32NAA first appeared I wondered what is the point since it may be faster but is a smaller round to begin with than the 380.

Yes, that is the point of the cartridge (in my mind) along with the increased feed reliability of the bottleneck shape. Without the 71gr and heavier bullets, the penetration on the round will be limited to 380ACP depths, which would essentially negate the point if you were shopping for a round that meets FBI penetration standards.

kokapelli
January 13, 2013, 09:48 PM
I should write a book titled, "Arguing Handguns : To Each His Own" :). I chose the P238 for the conversion because the gun is selling like hotcakes across the US and our primary concern is to support the law-abiding gun owner with relevant and factual information about their ammunition and firearms. There are plenty of other good guns that can be converted to 32NAA.



Yes, that is the point of the cartridge (in my mind) along with the increased feed reliability of the bottleneck shape. Without the 71gr and heavier bullets, the penetration on the round will be limited to 380ACP depths, which would essentially negate the point if you were shopping for a round that meets FBI penetration standards.
I have a number of pocket 380 pistols and all are 100% reliable with the 380 round.

Penetration in 380 is not a problem with fmj rounds and there are jhp rounds in 380 that meet FBI penetration standards.

Availability of 32NAA is very limited, more expensive than 380 and platforms for the round are also very limited.

32NAA at this time is a very impractical round most of us.

Brass Fetcher
January 13, 2013, 10:45 PM
Which 380ACP rounds expand and get 12" or deeper in 10% gelatin?

I've tested quite a few ( http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP/380ACP%20Summary%20Table.pdf ) and only found the Federal 90gr Hydra-Shok does it, if the stars are aligned and the velocity is just right.

kokapelli
January 14, 2013, 07:48 AM
Which 380ACP rounds expand and get 12" or deeper in 10% gelatin?

I've tested quite a few ( http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP/380ACP%20Summary%20Table.pdf ) and only found the Federal 90gr Hydra-Shok does it, if the stars are aligned and the velocity is just right.
Hornady Critical defense seems to be just about at the minimum FBI Depth.

Brass Fetcher
January 14, 2013, 08:31 AM
I see a few articles:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_hg_acriticalchoice_200903/

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/14881/hornady-critical-defense/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-8/200981911031-oneproblemtwosolutions.pdf

Which suggest the 380ACP Critical Defense penetrates to the same 10" range as do most other 380ACP JHPs.

The American Rifleman article actually says that the intent of the Critical Defense line is to not exceed 12" of gelatin penetration.

Where did you find the gelatin test where the 380ACP Critical Defense goes near 12" penetration?

kokapelli
January 14, 2013, 08:37 AM
I see a few articles:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_hg_acriticalchoice_200903/

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/14881/hornady-critical-defense/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-8/200981911031-oneproblemtwosolutions.pdf

Which suggest the 380ACP Critical Defense penetrates to the same 10" range as do most other 380ACP JHPs.

The American Rifleman article actually says that the intent of the Critical Defense line is to not exceed 12" of gelatin penetration.

Where did you find the gelatin test where the 380ACP Critical Defense goes near 12" penetration?
I don't really remember where I saw it, but it doesn't make any difference for me because I want more than 12" of penetration and that's why I carry Winchester or Freedom Munitions FP rounds.

Dan-O
January 14, 2013, 09:11 AM
JE223,

First of all thank you for your work on Brassfetcher. It is a website that has a lot of great information.

I am a big proponent of bottlenecked cartridges. I shoot and reload for both the 357sig and 9x25 Dillon. I would love to get into the 32naa, and wish that I could find a reasonable conversion barrel for my two Kel Tec P3AT's.

I have been thinking long and hard about just buying a Diamondback Arms in the 32naa variety.

How much was the conversion barrel that Machine Engineers, INC. made for you?

Jaymo
January 14, 2013, 03:21 PM
I like bottlenecked cartridges for increased feed relliability. The Tokarevs I used to have would chamber empty brass from the magazine.

Brass Fetcher
January 16, 2013, 03:22 AM
JE223,

First of all thank you for your work on Brassfetcher. It is a website that has a lot of great information.

I am a big proponent of bottlenecked cartridges. I shoot and reload for both the 357sig and 9x25 Dillon. I would love to get into the 32naa, and wish that I could find a reasonable conversion barrel for my two Kel Tec P3AT's.

I have been thinking long and hard about just buying a Diamondback Arms in the 32naa variety.

How much was the conversion barrel that Machine Engineers, INC. made for you?

My price was different because it was a pre-production model. Please contact them for their current pricing.

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