Something else to start hording!


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rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 03:33 PM
Shop-light bulbs!

I just found out conventional F40w 48" fluorescent light bulbs have been outlawed by the government, and will no longer be sold after Jan. 2014.

What does this have to do with Reloading??

Well, I don't know about you, but I have 8 shop-lights in the basement, 2 ea over both reloading benches, 1 over my lathe, 1 over my grinder & belt sander stands, 1 over my table saw, and 1 over the the washer & dryer!

I'm getting me some spare 40w shop-light bulbs while the getting is good!

rc

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Drail
January 12, 2013, 03:35 PM
We can probably thank Al Gore for that also.

floydster
January 12, 2013, 03:45 PM
Who is Al Gore?

Smokeyloads

Elkins45
January 12, 2013, 03:50 PM
What is supposed to replace them?

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 03:50 PM
During his term as Vice President under Bill Clinton, Al Gore invented the Internet.

Bill was in the oval office playing around with cigars, or something.

rc

Elkins45
January 12, 2013, 03:58 PM
Maybe I should stock up on some 100 watt incandescent bulbs to replace them?

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 04:01 PM
What is supposed to replace them? As I understand it?
New light fixtures.
Or new ballest and sockets for your old fixtures.

The new bulb is a 1" dia, and new ballast and T8 lamp sockets will be necessary to work with them.
The old T12 sockets won't fit.
And the old ballests burn out the new bulbs.

rc

Coop45
January 12, 2013, 04:04 PM
RC, are you sure about that? Incandescent bulbs are going away in 2014, but I find it hard to believe that fluorescents are going too. Those weird looking lights that are replacing incandescents are fluorescent.

tightgroup tiger
January 12, 2013, 04:05 PM
Things aren't what they used to be, are they? I'm loading up on 60w edison base incondescents before they all disappear. Lighting over a loading bench is very important.

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 04:07 PM
Yes, I'm sure.
Not all flourescent lights are going away.
Just the T12 40w ones that fit the 100 gazillion shop & ceiling lights in the USA!

There was a DIY story in the paper the other day about converting your shop lights.

And the Westlake Hardware store manager told me the same thing today when I went to get bulbs.

The law was to take effect July 1, 2012.
But there was enough hell raising they have extended the deadline to Jan 1, 2014 now.


Now I'm wondering if a change from a 40w bulb to a 32w bulb will ever save enough energy to make up for the all the energy they will use making 100 gazillion new light fixtures??

rc

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 04:07 PM
T8 and T12 use the same sockets (correct term is "lampholder"). you just have to change the ballast. while i was in college, i worked doing maintenance in the dorms and changed countless ballasts from T12 to T8. never had to change the lampholders.

if i remember correctly, the reason for the change is because the T8 lamps contain less mercury.

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 04:13 PM
Well maybe it's not T8 then??

At any rate the new "green" bulbs susposedly don't fit the old T12 sockets.
And the old magnetic ballests burn out the new bulbs.

rc

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 04:16 PM
a 1" diameter lamp is a T8

the format is TX where X = diameter/8 inches

so 8/8 = 1 in.

cfullgraf
January 12, 2013, 04:20 PM
Good to know the T12 bulbs are being discontinued. In 30 or 40 years I may have change just a few in my shop and reloading area so not a big concern. But the newer ones I added in the new house have not been as long lived.

I think I will lay in a few spares, replace fixtures once in a while ( mine are the inexpensive hanging shop lights), and save the old bulbs until the old stuff is exhausted or been replaced.

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 04:24 PM
i think T5 lamps are another replacement option, but they use different lampholders.

floydster
January 12, 2013, 04:26 PM
The gov. just wants to get rid of the old ballast's that run the old T 12 bulbs.

Smokeyloads --- I do know what Billy was playing with in the Oval Office:)

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 04:27 PM
O.K., I might have been wrong about the sockets not fitting.

Here was the newspaper story I was thinking said that.
But it doesn't.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2012/nov/19/fix-it-chick-retrofit-t-12-light-fixture/

rc

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 04:30 PM
The gov. just wants to get rid of the old ballast's that run the old T 12 bulbs.

yeah, because they're old, inefficient magnetic ballasts. they're already illegal to make or import. if your ballast goes out, you have to go to a T8 electronic ballast. a T8 retrofit uses ~35% less energy. i would just retrofit as the ballasts or lamps fail.

blarby
January 12, 2013, 04:37 PM
If you run all of those lights fairly constantly RC, it will indeed save you some cash- you can buy the ballasts cheaper than your DIY store has them, I'm certain........


Look for a local co. that does energy audits- they could probably turn you on to some cheap ones.

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 04:40 PM
Yea, but I don't anymore.

Years ago, I did run them all the time when I wasn't at work.
But the older I get, the less shop projects I have going on all the time.

The one over the washer only gets used when we wash clothes, and I haven't used the table saw in the last year or two.

I will not live long enough to save the cost of replacing the 8 ballasts in electricity savings.

rc

Coop45
January 12, 2013, 04:46 PM
The older I get, the more I didn't know. Thanks for the lighting lesson, RC.

buck460XVR
January 12, 2013, 04:51 PM
Local electrician tipped me off on this a while back. He said many Big Box stores were puttin' the old fixtures on sale before they couldn't get rid of them.Of course they weren't tellin' anyone that the bulbs would be unobtainable soon.

Fat_46
January 12, 2013, 04:53 PM
Great. I have 34 of these in the house. I guess I got the change, still waiting on the hope.

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 05:25 PM
the legislation that phased out T12 lamps was The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007. Obama had nothing to do with it

i'm not very fond of our president either, but do some research before you start blaming POTUS for everything.

in other words:

http://i.imgur.com/qpJa6.gif

presspuller
January 12, 2013, 06:55 PM
Any lamps you see now with a green cap on the end is the no/less mercury, those have been out for many years. The new version is all about the energy savings. Imagine how many industries have those lamps and the total dollars that can be saved from it.

JLDickmon
January 12, 2013, 07:43 PM
Well maybe it's not T8 then??

At any rate the new "green" bulbs susposedly don't fit the old T12 sockets.
And the old magnetic ballests burn out the new bulbs.

rc

A. Yes they do.
B. You are correct.

You will have to rewire the fixture. It's not hard. I do a couple a week at the store..

Queen_of_Thunder
January 12, 2013, 07:57 PM
They're worried about mercury? Ahh so thats why we moved from a bulb with no mercury to one with mercury. Wait that makes no sense. Ahhh government edict.

jcwit
January 12, 2013, 08:15 PM
I wish our government would stop trying to tell me how to live.

mgmorden
January 12, 2013, 08:15 PM
They're worried about mercury? Ahh so thats why we moved from a bulb with no mercury to one with mercury. Wait that makes no sense. Ahhh government edict.

Well, in all fairness its a two-fold problem. They're primarily worried about energy consumption, hence the requirement to phase out incandescent bulbs. With that squared away though, if we're going to be using florescents for the energy savings, then we might as well try to keep the mercury as low as possible.

rcmodel
January 12, 2013, 08:21 PM
I'm still worried about how much energy & labor costs it will take to make & replace all the 15 gazillion ballests, bulb's, and complete light fixtures come next Jan. 1!!

Thats gonnna take a lot of energy savings to break even!

rc

NeuseRvrRat
January 12, 2013, 08:30 PM
so blame the electrical worker's union and their lobbyists

do you really think the government and our elected officials care about the environment or saving you money on your electrical bills? hell no. they care about getting re-elected. they get re-elected with money. they get money from organizations like the IBEW. IBEW supports politicians who vote for legislation that results in more work for them. reducing mercury and lowering energy consumption are just excuses.

AMURRICA!

Trent
January 12, 2013, 09:23 PM
This is irritating the hell out of me.

I bought those new "skinny" flourescent bulbs as they were all that Menards had in stock (seems there's been a "run" on the big ones).

Anyway my entire kitchen flickers at a high frequency now. (The replacements went over the island.)

It sucks. It really sucks.

I have 44 of the old style ballasts in my home I'll have to replace eventually (mostly in the basement & garages).

ArchAngelCD
January 12, 2013, 09:28 PM
Wow, I just counted and I have 15 in the house and another 6 in the garage. Leave it to the government to cost us more money and get into our business yet again.

Isn't it bad enough they outlawed one of Edison's best inventions, the incandescent light bulb? By the way, those florescent round bulbs are so hazardous you have to evacuate the house if one breaks so they aren't outlawing the 40" bulbs because of mercury. Also, the round florescent bulbs are only manufactured in China, not in America so all the bulbs in all the Government building will be replaced by bulbs bought from China. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands of bulbs in the building in Washington DC alone. Great, they are stimulating the Chinese economy but not ours.

ChefJeff1
January 12, 2013, 11:32 PM
I reload by candlelight!

Reefinmike
January 13, 2013, 12:42 AM
^hmmm... not a bad idea... not a bad idea at all :)

rcmodel
January 13, 2013, 12:54 AM
I did that once in a little duplex south of Ft. Carson Colorado.

Had too, because I couldn't afford the electric bill one month on 1968 Army pay.

Thats probably one reason I have 8 soon to be outlawed shop lights in my basement now!

I Can See Clearly Now!
Said the blind man to his deaf daughter as he tripped over the stump!

rc

hueyville
January 13, 2013, 12:05 PM
I swapped my home and business out to low voltage LED lighting over a year ago. My electric bills went down 10% and the bulbs are rated for 22 years with a standard duty cycle. Incandescent and fluorescent are dinosaurs. Go ahead and make the switch. Whatever you do skip the little squiggly compact fluorescent bulbs. Seen a lot of them burn including primary cause for three house fires I witnessed.

CGT80
January 13, 2013, 04:06 PM
Anyway my entire kitchen flickers at a high frequency now. (The replacements went over the island.)

Do you have the correct ballast for the correct lamp? Is the ballast wired correctly?

8' t12 fixtures often had the line and neutral wires hooked directly to the tombstones. The newer ballasts are not wired the same. The ballasts usually have wiring diagrams on them.

The t8 lamps put out more light (lumens) than the t12, even with the same wattage. I like the T8 4' lamps and fixtures. You can buy any color lamp you want. I use 6500k lamps in our business work shop, and in the garages. The color looks similar to sunlight. 4100k is my favorite for general business lighting. I can't stand anything less than 4100k as it is too yellow/orange.

T5's are not real common yet. Home Depot and Lowes only had one color available when I last looked for them. They are also pricey. I'm sure an electrical supplier would have better choices, but I worked in many different areas and couldn't use just one supplier.

Magnetic ballasts can be noisy. T8 electronic ballasts are quiet and much lighter. I can change out a ballast 5-10 minutes depending on the fixture. Some are more of a pain and can take longer.

A t8 ballast average $20 bucks when I last bought them.

The dim-able 2pin and 4pn cfls are expensive and can be a real pain. They are used as can lights in many commercial buildings. Those could be very expensive-$80+ for a single ballast. I have had to change a number of those ballasts by accessing the ballast through the 6-8" hole (in the ceiling) that the can light goes in. That isn't much room to work in, especially if you have to change one out that is 277v single phase and is hot while you are doing it.

T12's suck and need to go. I do however understand how many existing t12 fixtures still exist.

SSN Vet
January 13, 2013, 06:05 PM
When the owners upgraded where I work, I got half a box of the old style 4' bulbs.... I just replaced the bulbs in our mud room. They only lasted 13 years.

I'm thinking that half box is probably a life time supply :)

Ken70
January 13, 2013, 09:49 PM
I tried the new ballast game at Home Depot, tried 3 different ones and couldn't get any of them to work. Ended up just buying a new fixture.

I must have 30 bulbs between the house and garage, easier to just stock up on bulbs while I still can.

dmazur
January 14, 2013, 03:08 AM
I'm sure it is not politically correct to recommend buying bulbs in quantity to keep old fixtures going, but if you have spare ballasts for the old fixtures, it is much cheaper to do this than it is to replace fixtures.

At least, that's what I did.

I figure I've paid out enough for energy efficiency when I converted the entire house from incandescent to LED.

The F40's aren't that much of the total load and they're staying... :)

Inebriated
January 14, 2013, 03:34 AM
rcmodel, I say this with the utmost respect.....


Who in the world actually knows what lightbulbs they use? haha

USSR
January 14, 2013, 09:11 AM
...they're old, inefficient...

Gee, that pretty much describes me. I wonder what plans the gov't has for me?:uhoh:

Don

Walkalong
January 14, 2013, 09:34 AM
Go ahead and bite the bullet. Get some T8 electronic ballasts and convert. The light is better (I suggest 4100K), and you'll save money in the long run.

Flt Simulation
January 14, 2013, 11:33 AM
QUOTE: Who is Al Gore?
____________________________________


The tall guy in the middle:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/AlGoreMe-1.jpg

Fryerpower
January 14, 2013, 11:43 AM
Manufacture and distribution of 75 Watt incandescent bulbs stopped on 1 January 2013. Once they are off the shelves they are gone also.

Jim

Jeff H
January 14, 2013, 12:25 PM
Sorry RC. I give this thread a big yawn.....

Incandescents and T12 bulbs are old technology and inefficient. Yeah they worked, but there are better options available just like bullet technology. Sure 158gr SWC in 38spl were all the rage for the cops when you were young, but there are better options available today, right?

The big problem I have is with all of our Congress critters trying to legislate morality by outlawing stupid things like incandescent bulbs. I mean really... That was a huge waste of legislation just so they could exorcize more control over the populous. Economics would have taken care of it. As better bulbs get cheaper, people will switch because it is cheaper to pay for the new bulbs than to pay the high electric bill.

Hell, Duke Energy even gave me a whole box of CFL bulbs for free a few months ago to hasten my switch. It probably saves them money in the long run by reducing peak demand.

Another comment: the light quality of the T8 and the more expensive T5 bulbs is much much better than the T12s. Once you have a T8 light, you'll wonder why you didn't switch years ago.

Ky Larry
January 14, 2013, 12:59 PM
G.E. had a plant here in Lexinton that made the old bulbs. Guess what happenened to the 200 jobs there? I know I shouldn't complain because the government has my best interest at heart. Don't forget, they fixed the toilet crisis a few years ago.:rolleyes:

Fryerpower
January 14, 2013, 01:01 PM
Sorry RC. I give this thread a big yawn.....

Incandescents ... are old technology and inefficient.

Yes, but they do a great job of preheating aircraft engines. Sometimes there is something good to be said about an electric heater that just happens to put out some light.

Jim

hueyville
January 14, 2013, 01:05 PM
Walkalong, finally someone mentions degrees Kelvin. Most folk look at wattage as main indication of light output. All that number really tells is how much energy it uses. Lumens and Kelvin temperature are the two most important for quality of light. One.of my businesses does commercial lighting install, maintenance and repair.

Had a client recently whose power bill was eating him alive. He took the low bid to install exterior parking lot & building lighting. The contractor installed eight 150 watt incandescent flood lights, six 400 watt high pressure sodium fixtures, six 500 watt quartz halogen fixtures. His power bill increased over $200 per month. He was stunned.

Did a site survey which recommended replace all bulbs and fixtures. I provided two estimates which had math involved. Calculated light output, explained light output of new units. Was able to show how an 83 watt LED flooldlight would give more usable light.than his new quartz halohen units. Though expensive, $400 each, the tax break, 22.8 year advertised life span dropped them to reasonable cost of ownership. At .11 cents per kilowatt hour the difference.between 83 watts and 500 watts adds up. Add to that he had me on site at least twice a month replacing bulbs. Parts and labor was significant.

The flood lights had 150 watt incandescent bulbs. I replaced them all with 23 watt LED exterior flood lights. Add again 22.8 service life & I may never have replace one of these. I offer a 3 year warranty on bulb replacement. Odds.are will never go back except to service bulbs and fixtures I didn't address this past trip.

All of the HID metal halide lights were replaced with "induction light kits". Less energy, better color temperature 3 year manufacturer warranty. None of the products used are pro-rated on warranty, no questions asked swap out. Client was stunned with quality of light.and 3 months later his power bill averaging ~120 bucks per month less.

Folks, Edison bulbs are gazillion year old technology. Move ahead with the times or switch.back to rocks and spears instead of guns. Fluorescent is as antiquated as incandescent so move on up to real technology. LED, induction, etc. If your over 55 years old you may never change a bulb again and save major money in the end.

USSR
January 14, 2013, 01:12 PM
The big problem I have is with all of our Congress critters trying to legislate morality by outlawing stupid things like incandescent bulbs. I mean really... That was a huge waste of legislation just so they could exorcize more control over the populous.

The Congress critters seem to forget they are dealing with Americans. You tell me I can't have something..., and I go out and buy enough 100 and 75 watt incandescent bulbs to last me for years.:neener: If I want to be inefficient and old school, why is that anyone's concern but mine?

Don

beatledog7
January 14, 2013, 02:00 PM
It's my electricity bill. Switching to a more efficient system might make sense for some, but not for me as a renter. I stocked up on good old glow-hots a while back, and I'll buy some good old 40-watt 4-footers now.

Government gets to say how we light or homes and wash down our crap. We seem to like it that way. But when they start telling us how much gasoline we can burn--oh, wait; they're doing that too, since the 70s. No wonder they think we'll swallow gun restrictions as well. But wait, we've been doing that since the 30s.

No wonder we're so screwed up.

paulo57509
January 14, 2013, 11:37 PM
My memory is sketchy, but the last time I was in the bulb aisle at Home Depot, I noticed that some incandescent bulbs had weird wattage ratings; something like 37w, 57w, etc.

I wondered if this was something manufacturers were doing to get around the phase-in law banning the manufacture of 40w and 60w bulbs?

1SOW
January 15, 2013, 01:51 AM
rc, I'm almost in the exact same boat, but in the garage with 6 two-tube fixtures. Wood/welding shop tools @ bench, reloading and the wife's car.
CRAP!

When one ballast went out, I did find a replacement "electronic" ballast a few years back that works better than the old type. It's not temperature sensitive and is instant on. I''ll buy more old tubes, the fragile plastic electrical contacts and a couple more electronic ballasts to last long enough to outlive me.

Thanks for the heads up.

Sheepdog1968
January 15, 2013, 02:00 AM
For what it's worth, there are led bulbs that are out now,that can be used in fluorescent tube fixtures. They're not cheap and are running in the mid 60 price range. I point this option out because it is at least one option and you won't be forced to have to change the fixtures. LED lights really sip electricity. Yes they are still expensive but prices are dropping.

45lcshooter
January 15, 2013, 07:31 AM
Great!!!!!! Now were going to Obama bulbs!!!!!!!!

Walkalong
January 15, 2013, 07:35 AM
You heard the man, stock up or convert. :)

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