Strangers help man robbed at gun point


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littlebluevette
January 13, 2013, 10:03 AM
Can't help but think this is one of the reasons Houston is a safer city than Chicago....

HOUSTON -- A couple of strangers came to the rescue when a man was robbed at gunpoint. Now, the victim wants to say thank you to the Good Samaritans.

Police believe the criminal who was canvassing a neighborhood in the 2500 block of Wichita near Hermann Park had no idea what he was in for when he picked his target.

The victim in this case had just walked back to his car from a bar around the corner.

Kevin Dorsey says he hadn’t even closed his car door Thursday night when a man wearing all black and a ski mask put a gun to his chest. The man took Dorsey’s wallet, cell phone and car keys.

After he was robbed, Dorsey began running down the street and says two men in a Mercedes asked him what had happened.

Dorsey told them and they not only caught up with the suspect, but they started shooting at him.

The suspect fired back. In the end, the two witnesses turned vigilantes won and took down the bad guy.

“I don’t believe in guns,” said Dorsey. “I don’t own a gun. I’m totally at the mercy of my saviors. They obviously sent two angels to help me. These people protected me when I couldn’t protect myself.”

After the robber had been shot, police say he jumped over a fence and was attacked by a German Shepherd. That attack prevented him from getting away.

The suspect, identified as Christopher Hutchins, is being treated at Ben Taub Hospital. He’s expected to recover.


http://www.khou.com/news/local/Robbery-victim-wants-to-thank-Good-Samaritans-who-came-to-his-rescue--186572461.html

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Prophet
January 13, 2013, 10:09 AM
After the robber had been shot, police say he jumped over a fence and was attacked by a German Shepherd.

:what: :D

I'm sorry, but that right there is downright hysterical.

Isaac-1
January 13, 2013, 10:28 AM
Yeah, I just hope the guys in the Mercedes don't get prosecuted

Fremmer
January 13, 2013, 10:35 AM
Talk about a bad day for a bad guy! And good dog!

ATBackPackin
January 13, 2013, 10:42 AM
I'm sorry but with the exception of the German Shepherd attacking him, I do no see where this is a good thing.

It is not the job of people with a carry permit to chase down criminals after the fact and reengage them into a shootout. If they wanted to help they should have called the police and retrieved all the information about the suspect that they could without engaging him.

RX-178
January 13, 2013, 10:50 AM
I'm sorry but with the exception of the German Shepherd attacking him, I do no see where this is a good thing.

It is not the job of people with a carry permit to chase down criminals after the fact and reengage them into a shootout. If they wanted to help they should have called the police and retrieved all the information about the suspect that they could without engaging him.

I find it incredibly saddening whenever I'm reminded that this viewpoint, however valid (I give similar advice to anyone seeking to get a CHL), is commonplace to the point of condemning people who went out of their way to help.

We are quickly becoming a catch-22 society, where professionally qualified people will refuse to help others for fear of losing their licenses (ever asked an EMT if they would ever give medical attention to anyone when not on duty?), and where people who aren't professionally qualified (but may be ACTUALLY qualified... big difference) are condemned for daring to help others.

I do not care to speculate, but I will say /IF/ the people in the Mercedes understood the risks that they were accepting unto themselves, and considered that risk acceptable for no other reason than to help someone else... well, while we all know that heroes are determined by the outcome, I will say that it would still be the definition of courage.

JohnnyK
January 13, 2013, 10:55 AM
dont mess with Texas! the german shepherd was the best part... harris county da wont touch the guys in mercedes...

Roadkill
January 13, 2013, 11:42 AM
Need more of it - its been done before and worked then

hue and cry

hue and cry, formerly, in English law, pursuit of a criminal immediately after he had committed a felony. Whoever witnessed or discovered the crime was required to raise the hue and cry against the perpetrator (e.g., call out “Stop, thief !”) and to begin pursuit; all persons within hearing were under the same obligation, and it was a punishable offense not to join in the chase and capture. The perpetrator was promptly brought into court, and if there was evidence of his having been caught red-handed, he was summarily convicted without being allowed to testify in his own behalf. The hue and cry was abolished in the early 19th cent. Possible modern survivals are the obligation to serve on a sheriff's posse and to assist a police officer in pursuing a suspected culprit.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 13, 2013, 11:50 AM
I hope the robber didn't have a disease and get the dog sick...lol. I have no sympathy for the robber. I do hope the two guys don't get in trouble.. In NC, they would string them up, but in my state you still cannot carry in a restaurant where they serve alcohol... Oh well, maybe oneday.

gspn
January 13, 2013, 11:54 AM
I didnt read where the guys in the Mercedes had carry permits...i dont think they even know who they are.

Sounds like some street justice delivered by people who live in the neighborhood. Im doubting they have a carry permit.

Funny to see it come full circle on a bad guy...the german shepard is right out of a movie...i can see it in something like Home Alone.

RetiredUSNChief
January 13, 2013, 11:58 AM
While I do not necessarily agree with the circumstances involving shooting a fleeing criminal, it appears that Texas law does allow this:

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


Source: http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/9.42.00.html


While this may, indeed, be legal in Texas, my own ethical code would not allow me to out right shoot a fleeing person. This is because the immediate threat to my life and health no longer exists the moment the gunman turns and runs away.

An argument can be made, however, that the armed criminal represented an immediate, and future, deadly threat to someone else. That is one circumstance I would have to factor into my own possible reaction as the criminal is running away.

heeler
January 13, 2013, 09:00 PM
I read about this incident the other day as I too live in Houston.
And I feel zero sympathy for the robber.
All that said the guys in the Mercedes better keep this between themselfs until the grave because by not sticking around after putting a stop to a violent felon and shooting him,which is not realistically out of legal bounds here,the fact that they fled is not going to work in their behalf if they are found.

Arp32
January 13, 2013, 09:11 PM
Lucky for the Good Samaritans that the situation was what it appeared to be. I'd be hesitant to jump in for several reasons, not the least of which is not knowing for sure what the circumstances actually were, who the real bad guy(s) were, and not knowing if the "victim" was simply one criminal in a deal gone wrong. Deadly force is serious business.

-v-
January 13, 2013, 09:16 PM
Good guys in the Mercedes. I guess that's what the anti's are afraid of. People standing up for themselves and violating the rights of these felons to commit crimes. I mean they are human beings who are trying to make a living off of other people's living too. They have just as much a right to rob and steal from you as you do of uh....:rolleyes: /Tounge-In-Cheeck

I find it incredibly saddening whenever I'm reminded that this viewpoint, however valid (I give similar advice to anyone seeking to get a CHL), is commonplace to the point of condemning people who went out of their way to help.

We are quickly becoming a catch-22 society, where professionally qualified people will refuse to help others for fear of losing their licenses (ever asked an EMT if they would ever give medical attention to anyone when not on duty?), and where people who aren't professionally qualified (but may be ACTUALLY qualified... big difference) are condemned for daring to help others.

Sadly, I agree with you. As a current EMT and soon to be MD, the advised response to anyone who seeks help from me or any in the health-care profession is "Well, I can call 911 for you, if you want." There's been enough cases of people rendering aid to someone and then being successfully sued by the patient. Its simply not worth the liability to try. Thanks to this climate the valuation is I can help more people by rendering minimal aid (Calling 911) off duty/outside the hospital, then I can by rendering aid and running the risk of potential legal fallout. /minirant.

12gaugeTim
January 13, 2013, 09:41 PM
He was going to get away, but then was shot at by two people completely unrelated to the crime and then jumped over a fence to meet a German Shepard.

How many mirrors do you have to break...

larryh1108
January 13, 2013, 09:59 PM
What these 2 did is some thing all CCW people consider when they strap on their gun.

What if?

Yes, they were heroes to the victim and helped bring a criminal to justice but what if, in the wild west shootout, an innocent victim was shot by one of the good guys or by the robber when he fired back? Was it worth it to risk all of that? The robber got his goods and the victim was unharmed. When they jumped in to help capture the robber, everything changed. It could have ended up a lot worse but thankfully it didn't. Where is the line drawn between being responsible citizens and trying to be John Wayne?

chris in va
January 13, 2013, 10:22 PM
You guys that don't live in TX wouldn't understand. And yes, I grew up there.

figment
January 13, 2013, 10:37 PM
VERY questionable scenario. In Texas CHL classes they teach/warn against the defense of a third-party.

Goooood doggie!!!!

hovercat
January 13, 2013, 11:30 PM
In TX no CCW needed for a loaded handgun in a vehicle, as long as it is concealed.

Badges? We don need no stinking badges!

2nd 41
January 13, 2013, 11:37 PM
I'm glad the robber had a bad day. I hope he's out of business. And if he gets shot in the back someday so be it. It's no joke getting held up. It scares the crap out of a person for a lifetime. I got robbed in 1980. The memory does not fade away.

MedWheeler
January 14, 2013, 07:51 AM
This would be lawful in Florida as well, a state which recognizes, under the principles of English Common Law, the rights of its citizens to make arrests in cases in which a violent felony has just occurred and the person(s) believed responsible is in immediate flight from the scene of same. The citizen making the arrest actually becomes the arresting officer throughout the judicial process.
Florida law also acknowledges the right of a lawfully-armed citizen to use deadly force, when indicated, to protect an innocent person other than himself.

I am commenting above only on the legality of becoming involved in such a situation, not on whether or not it is morally or strategically wise.
Now, as to the robbery victim's comments about the two so-called vigilantes having "protected him" and being his "saviors", these are not true. It appears that he no longer needed "protection" at the time, as his assailant had fled.

12131
January 14, 2013, 08:10 AM
Somehow, I have the feeling we don't know the whole story, here.
But, assuming everything happened exactly the way the robbery victim said it did, anyone on here, if you were the Mercedes guys, would you chase after the robber and start shooting? I know I won't. Sounds like cowboy wannabes to me. I'm willing to bet that, if they didn't have guns with them, they wouldn't have been chasing the robber.

And I agree with this:
Now, as to the robbery victim's comments about the two so-called vigilantes having "protected him" and being his "saviors", these are not true. It appears that he no longer needed "protection" at the time, as his assailant had fled.

Lex Luthier
January 14, 2013, 08:26 AM
Sadly, we are left out in the cold if one of us takes responsibility of anyone but ourselves or our families in an immediate sense, in other words shoot on the spot. If a BG is running away, or if some poor old lady just got mugged and we are there seconds after the BG has taken off and feel compelled to react, we will be treated as vigilantes.

The cop that taught our handgun class told us to be very careful and extremely aware of the possibilities when we draw on anybody. You better have reliable, credible witnesses and you better have a good reason to risk so much. Regardless of our comportment, the bad guys will keep on coming and we had better do the right thing, even if that means letting one run away.

Another aspect of practicing daily situational awareness is memorizing an excellent description of said situations and being able to report it. Let the cops earn their pay.

Mp7
January 14, 2013, 08:40 AM
sounds like gangsters shooting at gangsters.

Nothing to cheer about.
They made a robbery turn into a gunfight.

Glad no stray bullets killed anyone.

JFtheGR8
January 14, 2013, 09:53 AM
I'm glad that shooting a fleeing armed robber is legal in Texas. I wish it was that way in the rest of the country. That could be millions of dollars saved by tax payers to try and house violent criminals. I like the idea of the hue and cry law. Something like that should be revisited. If people don't want to get involved to help stop crime then they can pay a fine. Sure, as long as they're not in imminent danger of course.


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JustinJ
January 14, 2013, 10:16 AM
What could be better for the protection of gun rights than some innocent getting hit by a stray bullet during an unnecessary shootout when there was no longer immediate danger of harm?

12131
January 14, 2013, 10:30 AM
I'm glad that shooting a fleeing armed robber is legal in Texas. I wish it was that way in the rest of the country. That could be millions of dollars saved by tax payers to try and house violent criminals. I like the idea of the hue and cry law. Something like that should be revisited. If people don't want to get involved to help stop crime then they can pay a fine. Sure, as long as they're not in imminent danger of course.


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Sounds familiar? Requiring action from inaction, or pay a fine.

stonecutter2
January 14, 2013, 10:46 AM
“I don’t believe in guns,” said Dorsey. “I don’t own a gun. I’m totally at the mercy of my saviors. They obviously sent two angels to help me. These people protected me when I couldn’t protect myself.”

1) Start believing in guns. They do exist. Not only the 2 held by your "angels" but the one pointed at your chest, too.

2) The two men weren't angels. Just two law abiding citizens that wanted to help. They also didn't protect him, the robbery was over. He couldn't protect himself because he didn't believe in guns, and didn't own a gun, but more importantly that bar is probably a gun free zone. Any patron is a defenseless victim as they return to their car. I'm not saying that people should be allowed to carry in bars (alcohol and guns - bad idea), i'm saying criminals find a way...just as this one did. They know when they can have the advantage against their victims.

JFtheGR8
January 14, 2013, 11:11 AM
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFtheGR8

I'm glad that shooting a fleeing armed robber is legal in Texas. I wish it was that way in the rest of the country. That could be millions of dollars saved by tax payers to try and house violent criminals. I like the idea of the hue and cry law. Something like that should be revisited. If people don't want to get involved to help stop crime then they can pay a fine. Sure, as long as they're not in imminent danger of course.


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Sounds familiar? Requiring action from inaction, or pay a fine.

I believe it is ones civic duty to do whatever is necessary to prevent crime using legal avenues. All too often witnesses claim they didn't see anything for fear of retaliation. Well then, if you can be placed at the scene of a crime and don't wish to cooperate with an investigation then pay up. The money can be used to bolster crime prevention in high crime areas where people have selective vision.


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12131
January 14, 2013, 11:48 AM
I believe it is ones civic duty to do whatever is necessary to prevent crime using legal avenues. All too often witnesses claim they didn't see anything for fear of retaliation. Well then, if you can be placed at the scene of a crime and don't wish to cooperate with an investigation then pay up. The money can be used to bolster crime prevention in high crime areas where people have selective vision.


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You are kind of scrambling everything together here.
There's a huge difference between cooperating with the investigation at the scene of the crime (crime already happened and done, and investigation started) as a witness, and "hue and cry" (shouting out to others and pursuing the criminal).
Are you going to fine me, if I don't assist you in chasing after the criminal? If he has a gun, will I be fined, if I don't chase? Even if he doesn't have a gun (impossible to know), will you fine me if I don't chase, because I told you I was afraid for my safety (he could have a gun concealed, you know).
About the "witness" at the crime scene, if I told you I didn't see anything, how can you tell if I really didn't see anything, or if I was just too afraid of retaliation? Are you going to polygraph me to see if I told you the truth? Then fine me, if I did not?

JFtheGR8
January 14, 2013, 12:17 PM
Quote:

You are kind of scrambling everything together here.
There's a huge difference between cooperating with the investigation at the scene of the crime (crime already happened and done, and investigation started) as a witness, and "hue and cry" (shouting out to others and pursuing the criminal).
Are you going to fine me, if I don't assist you in chasing after the criminal? If he has a gun, will I be fined, if I don't chase? Even if he doesn't have a gun (impossible to know), will you fine me if I don't chase, because I told you I was afraid for my safety (he could have a gun concealed, you know).
About the "witness" at the crime scene, if I told you I didn't see anything, how can you tell if I really didn't see anything, or if I was just too afraid of retaliation? Are you going to polygraph me to see if I told you the truth? Then fine me, if I did not?

Yeah, I knew that would be the response I'd get. I'm not sure how to institute either a hue and cry or a selective vision type law. The purpose is to at least get people to think more deeply into the matter to find solutions. Guns are not the problem but nobody can seem to come up with a solution that isn't met with resistance. I believe that if people get involved with their communities much of the problems will be identified and addressed. Otherwise people just bicker about what should be done and nothing gets accomplished except politicians taking away our freedoms.



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12131
January 14, 2013, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I knew that would be the response I'd get. I'm not sure how to institute either a hue and cry or a selective vision type law. The purpose is to at least get people to think more deeply into the matter to find solutions. Guns are not the problem but nobody can seem to come up with a solution that isn't met with resistance. I believe that if people get involved with their communities much of the problems will be identified and addressed. Otherwise people just bicker about what should be done and nothing gets accomplished except politicians taking away our freedoms.



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No, I hear you.
But what's to be done right there (when the crime happens) should rest on the individuals, I think. More government involvement with rules and regulations is not the answer.

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