I had a firearm stolen


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wow6599
January 13, 2013, 08:09 PM
I just got done with the police. Someone broke into my wife's car and stole our CM9 last night. She had it in her purse (she has a CCL) and left it in the console. Went out to her car for the first time since yesterday, and it's gone.

Papers and everything were all over the car. They didn't take her Coach boots ($$$ ?) or new blue tooth radio she bought, but they took the Kahr.

This happened in Wildwood, MO. SN for the Kahr is - IN2088.

Just throwing this out there to see if anybody comes across it, however unlikely that may be.

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M-Cameron
January 13, 2013, 08:16 PM
two likely possibilities...

1) they broke into the car randomly, found the gun, and figured that was a good enough score and left everything else.

2)or most likely, it was someone who knew your wife kept a gun in the car and was looking to steal it, a 'friend', family member, neighbor......

Sam1911
January 13, 2013, 08:17 PM
Hmmm... another "car gun" stolen. That's sad. Hopefully there's a lesson in this, for all of us.

I do hope you recover the gun.

wow6599
January 13, 2013, 08:20 PM
they broke into the car randomly, found the gun, and figured that was a good enough score and left everything else.

99.9% sure this is what happened.

Oh, and apparently the car was not locked. In our driveway though......

Women with ADHD will drive you crazy....... :banghead:

wow6599
January 13, 2013, 08:22 PM
I even told her a month or two ago I was going to sell it and get her pepper spray. Y'all think I wish I would have?

Bruno2
January 13, 2013, 08:25 PM
If you are an NRA member then you have some insurance coverage for it. It might not cover the entire cost of the gun,but, it will help.

M-Cameron
January 13, 2013, 08:25 PM
I even told her a month or two ago I was going to sell it and get her pepper spray. Y'all think I wish I would have?

i certainly hope not......i know i would want someone i care about to have the best tools available to defend them self....and while pepper spray is ok, its FAR from perfect.

your wife made a mistake, it happens.......you guys just need to reinforce gun safety/handeling until it becomes second nature.

afponiky
January 13, 2013, 08:39 PM
I agree with M-Cameron.

Enough said....

heeler
January 13, 2013, 08:46 PM
First I want to say I am very sorry she/you lost the Kahr.
As far as random vs purposely targeting your vehicle I tend to think random target.
Not sure about Wildwood MO. but here in Houston Texas the number one crime of them all is vehicle breakins.

HorseSoldier
January 13, 2013, 09:09 PM
+1. Up here in Anchorage thefts from vehicles are rampant. The usual big win for the criminals is credit cards, but we get gun thefts (long guns and pistols), prescription meds, iPads/Pods/Phones, etc. reported also. As a rule of thumb I always advise people to not leave anything of value in their vehicle overnight or during long stops (going to movies, trips to the mall, etc.), and even with items of no real value to not leave purse-shaped things or backpacks in their vehicles to discourage windows smashed out by guys who think they are scoring something valuable.

bozzman3
January 13, 2013, 09:14 PM
Not trying to sound like a a hole,but I think as gun owners we have a responsibility to secure our firearms!!Leaving a firearm in a car is not secure.This is how guns get into the hands of undesirables.A trunk is better but cars are stolen all the time.

radiotom
January 13, 2013, 09:15 PM
My woman has both pepper spray and a Glock 19. :neener:

wow6599
January 13, 2013, 09:34 PM
Not trying to sound like a a hole,but I think as gun owners we have a responsibility to secure our firearms!!Leaving a firearm in a car is not secure.This is how guns get into the hand of undesirables.A trunk is better but cars are stolen all the time.

Yes, I know. And I agree.

I'm really torn about what to do about my wife carrying a gun moving forward.

Hindsight 20/20, I think she (ADHD) may be too forgetful to have a firearm in her possession..... I can't watch over her 24/7.

This has me really bothered right now.

CSC_Saint
January 13, 2013, 09:45 PM
if it's any consolation, my wife has a problem with remembering the pistol in the car as well. No matter how much you harp, some people just won't learn to remember until something with serious consequences happens to them. I'll use this as a lesson to my wife that simple forgetfulness has now armed a criminal and that she needs to be just as vigilant in minding how she maintains control of her weapon as she is in being aware and alert in her surroundings.

JohnnyK
January 13, 2013, 09:55 PM
I have adhd too but that isn't an excuse to leave a weapon in a vechicle... especially an unlocked one... sucks you lost a firearm... a learning experience for sure... for my wife and I we don't have vechichle guns... just on our person guns... we can't leave anything out especially with a couple of curious children.... everything out of their reach and secured at all times.

kwguy
January 13, 2013, 10:00 PM
That truly stinks. As convenient as it is to leave one in the vehicle, that's why I do not as well. It's a pain in the butt having to move it around, but what else can you do?...

wow6599
January 13, 2013, 10:05 PM
I have adhd too but that isn't an excuse to leave a weapon in a vechicle... especially an unlocked one

Then my wife blames her ADHD too much.... what can I say?

Also, we now think the car was locked. One of the doors won't shut.....it is literally broken. I originally thought the alarm should have gone off, but here is the problem - if the key fob (?) is within so many feet, the car thinks you are unlocking the door and won't go off.

Our keys are by the front door and within range of the cars sensor. Never thought about the possibility of that problem until tonight.

And... this was a gun I gave her to carry on her. She said she left in the console on Wednesday when she had to go to a school function - and never put it back in her purse. Again, I don't always remember to babysit her.

K1500
January 13, 2013, 10:07 PM
Not trying to sound like an a hole, but the place lies entirely with the criminal POS that stole the gun, not the owners.

A $300 to $600 gun is one of the least valuable items in most cars. Yes, she should have locked it, and yes, it would probably be best if she brought it in, but you should be able to leave things in your car. My radio cost more than most carry guns. Folks leave a gun in their car for a variety of reasons. Don't make the criminal make you feel like you are in the wrong.

chris in va
January 13, 2013, 10:08 PM
Hmmm... another "car gun" stolen. That's sad. Hopefully there's a lesson in this, for all of us.

Yup. This goes for 'truck rifles' too.

We have a responsibility to keep powerful tools secured as best we can. This is exactly how they end up 'on the street' as the left so eloquently puts it. And you know what? They're (partly) right.

A $300 to $600 gun is one of the least valuable items in most cars. Yes, she should have locked it, and yes, it would probably be best if she brought it in, but you should be able to leave things in your car. My radio cost more than most carry guns. Folks leave a gun in their car for a variety of reasons. Don't make the criminal make you feel like you are in the wrong.

One problem with that argument. A stolen radio or credit card can't be directly used to kill someone else. A stolen gun isn't a 'value' loss, it's a potential deadly weapon now in the wrong hands.

K1500
January 13, 2013, 10:13 PM
What about a stolen 8,000 pound, 400 horsepower truck? Is that a deadly weapon?

Prophet
January 13, 2013, 10:15 PM
Everyone thinks I'm nuts for locking my van in my own driveway, but I always do even though I don't keep firearms in there. I'll admit that I've had to learn the hard way on a number of issues but this one isn't it. It only takes a couple of seconds to make it so a robber can't break into your car without waking the dead.

I hope you recover your weapon. It was a mistake, don't be too hard on yourself or your wife about it. Learn from it and move on. :cool:

K1500
January 13, 2013, 10:16 PM
Just where does our responsibility end? If a locked car in your own driveway is not secure enough, what about a locked house? Is THAT secure enough? Should we all store every gun in a locked safe, in a locked house, with a guard? It's not like she left it laying on the front lawn or anything. A criminal broke into a locked vehicle and stole a firearm. They are to blame. I understand a car isn't the most secure place to store a gun, but neither is your unoccupied house when you are off at work all day.

GlowinPontiac
January 13, 2013, 10:17 PM
Most criminals would rather have a $100 gun than an expensive radio/ipad/etc....

Sent from the toilet using charmin ultra

Prophet
January 13, 2013, 10:23 PM
double tap. Delete.

chris in va
January 13, 2013, 10:33 PM
What about a stolen 8,000 pound, 400 horsepower truck? Is that a deadly weapon?


Nope. When you licensed and insured it, what did it say on the form?

A criminal broke into a locked vehicle and stole a firearm

No, read the OP again. The car was unlocked and the gun was unsecured.

Should we all store every gun in a locked safe, in a locked house

Yes, absolutely...when not under direct supervision.

I don't know the details about the gun security issue with the CT shooter's mom, but I'm willing to bet if it had been in a gun safe without his knowledge of the combo, it may have prevented this horrible act.

K1500
January 13, 2013, 10:36 PM
Where do you store your firearms when you are camping, hunting, traveling, or going to the range? Do you consider it to be criminal to store a firearm in a car? What about under your bed at home? At what point to you feel it is secure enough that the blame shifts from the lawful owner to the criminal thief?

Ledgehammer
January 13, 2013, 10:45 PM
I'm really torn about what to do about my wife carrying a gun moving forward.

Carry is one thing. Sounds like she just leaves it in her car. I feel your pain though, I have to check my wife's car every night to make sure she locked it. I can't rely on her to be consistent so I just do it for her. Women...

Sam1911
January 13, 2013, 11:04 PM
K1500, we sometimes have this go-round when the discussion of truck- and car-guns comes up, but it isn't limited to that topic.

There are nuances which go far beyond the black and white. There is a desire among many to cast BLAME. Or said another way, GUILT. Who is GUILTY here? The criminal or the vehicle owner? Choose one. They can't both be the guilty party, right?

The other nuance is the question of reasonable responsibility. If you know that cars and trucks are broken into very, very often (FAAAAR more often than homes), and that they are often left unattended in less than secure circumstances, it becomes prudent to take steps not to leave potentially deadly weapons within.

You are not the GUILTY party if your car is broken into and your gun is stolen. However, you had all the reason in the world to expect that outcome would eventually befall it and you could have done very simple and non-intrusive things to utterly prevent that from happening.

Blame...guilt...responsibility. A complicated set of related ideas.

To give the analogy of another topic, when we discuss self-defense we quote the master who says, "Don't go stupid places, and do stupid things, with stupid people." But doesn't that infringe my right to freedom of movement, and assembly, and the pursuit of happiness?

Truth is, you have the RIGHT to walk down Gratiot St. in Detroit at 11:30 pm in nothing but a pink tu-tu, wearing 12 Rolexes on each arm and singing Klan rally songs. But nothing on earth makes you immune from the consequences of those choices. No one has the RIGHT to attack you. But they probably will anyway and you'd be foolish not to expect it.

What you have the RIGHT to do and what is WISE to do are not necessarily the same thing. Same with leaving guns in vehicles. You can say it's your right. You can say the criminal has NO right to break in and take your belongings. Of course that's true. But a gun left in a car (in all but a few specific instances) is a gun that -- chances are -- will be stolen eventually. You can stand on your right or you can use wisdom.

Sam1911
January 13, 2013, 11:17 PM
Further, to answer some of your points:

1) Few criminals steal a car IN ORDER TO kill someone or rob them with it. Guns are a different animal altogether and a stolen gun does not have some alternate primary use.

2) Expensive car stereos generally have very sophisticated security systems, or are protected by secondary security systems, or have removable face-plates, etc. -- all things that home theater equipment costing much more does not have. Why? Because we know PEOPLE STEAL CRAP OUT OF CARS all the time.

Where do you store your firearms when you are camping, hunting, traveling, or going to the range?With me. Why would I be any of those places and leave a gun in my car? All of those are times when I would have the gun in my physical presence.

Do you consider it to be criminal to store a firearm in a car?Criminal? No. Wise? No.

What about under your bed at home? Yes. Cars are broken into at rates which dwarf home break-ins. My home is also occupied nearly 24/7. Otherwise, guns are locked up. But there's also the point that we can generally only do "so much." Stored in a locked case/cabinet/safe within our homes is the safest most of us are possibly able to make our guns. We've done all we can at that point. Left out in a car is NOT "the best we could do." Far from it.

At what point to you feel it is secure enough that the blame shifts from the lawful owner to the criminal thief?Again...blame? Responsibility? If we knew something was a fairly common ocurrence and we had other options which would largely eliminate that occurrence, but we didn't take even the basic steps to keep that from happening... the BLAME is still on the criminal. But we certainly do deserve to march ourselves upstairs and look hard at the guy in the mirror and give him a GOOD slap upside the head.

Just like if we'd left a kitchen knife on the counter edge and it fell and cut someone. Or we left the iron on and started a fire. Or we did any of 1,000 things we all know better than to do.

smalls
January 14, 2013, 12:15 AM
I'm really torn about what to do about my wife carrying a gun moving forward.

This is why I hate off body carry, save some special circumstances.

I know a lot if women don't like it, because it forced them to wear a cover garment all the time and what not, but suggest she carry it on her person. Impossible to leave the gun attached to your hip somewhere.

Hardtarget
January 14, 2013, 12:33 AM
A few years ago I locked my vehicles all the time. Even in my driveway. Then one night punks broke a $600 window for a $150 radio. So now I don't lock up at home. I also don't leave ANYTHING in the vehicles.

Mark

HorseSoldier
January 14, 2013, 12:38 AM
You are not the GUILTY party if your car is broken into and your gun is stolen. However, you had all the reason in the world to expect that outcome would eventually befall it and you could have done very simple and non-intrusive things to utterly prevent that from happening.


Exactly.

Poor decision making by victims of crimes does not change or diminish the fact that a crime occurred (though it could potentially influence how a jury or insurance company view a situation). I think a lot of people out there just have no idea how common a crime theft from vehicles is, and consequently don't think about the responsibility aspect of leaving guns and other potentially dangerous items (i.e. prescription meds) in their vehicles. I'd have to check my department's stats to verify it, but I'd estimate that vehicle break ins are probably literally about 100 times more common than burglaries.

K1500
January 14, 2013, 01:01 AM
Points taken. I do not store a firearm in my car/driveway at night, for the same reasons that have been mentioned. Despite this, I do occasionally have to leave one in my car when I am doing things such as stopping to eat/shop while going to or from the range or hunting. Unless you openly carry a rifle, every time you stop anywhere, you are leaving a gun in a car.

I do not think it is irresponsible to leave a rifle or handgun in a car while eating a meal, enjoying a swim, going horseback riding, or any number of activities that preclude the carry of a gun. Sometimes, there is no other choice than to store a firearm in a car.

I freely admit it is more likely to get stolen, but sometimes that is the lesser of two evils. What do you guys do that work at a place where you cannot carry into the building? Do you go unarmed both before and after work, or do you leave it in the car? Just curious, because your car is probably parked at work for more hours of the day than it is parked at home.

22-rimfire
January 14, 2013, 01:05 AM
Always lock your vehicle unless it is inside your garage with the door down. I learned this the hard way..... lost about $3000 worth of stuff from inside my locked truck one night in my driveway in a low crime area.

So, unless you don't care, take your firearm inside the house when you leave your vehicle over night.

HorseSoldier
January 14, 2013, 01:09 AM
I freely admit it is more likely to get stolen, but sometimes that is the lesser of two evils. What do you guys do that work at a place where you cannot carry into the building? Do you go unarmed both before and after work, or do you leave it in the car? Just curious, because your car is probably parked at work for more hours of the day than it is parked at home.

I have a coworker who has a single pistol sized gun safe installed in her vehicle for those sorts of issues.

c4v3man
January 14, 2013, 01:21 AM
Not everyone is so lucky, but I had to leave my carry weapon in a locked glove box due to getting my wisdom teeth removed. Due to the extreme measures needed to get them out of my head, I was "put under" so obviously couldn't have it on my person. Got home and due to our recent move, parked the car outside (since the garage was full). My wife up till this point was apparently leaving the car unlocked (which never occurred to me to ask, I assumed, especially in a car with electronic locks, that it was common sense to always lock the car).

We came outside, and other than a Subaru Forester trunk liner (a car neither common, nor "cool" with punks) nothing was stolen. But the glove box handle was almost broken off... Obviously they weren't serious criminals or they would have just pried it open, but I got lucky.

Thankfully due to the design of the gun (a HK P7M8) I had taken the 5 seconds necessary to remove the firing pin and kept that in my pocket, so the gun would have not functioned anyways. Irregardless, a replacement could have been ordered by the thieves, and a criminal could have been equipped with a dangerous weapon. I take much more caution to not leave a firearm in the car for more than a few minutes anymore... and a bolt-on single gun safe if a great idea if you regularly need to do so.

I hope you documented the serial number, so you at least have a chance of recovering the weapon, or at least getting the thieves in more trouble if they do locate it.

Impureclient
January 14, 2013, 02:08 AM
My parents just had their brand new truck rifled through a couple weeks ago. They have security cameras pointed at the truck and all. They left the door open over night and the guy just looked around in it.
Luckily there was nothing of value in it at the time. The only reason they knew it happened was the stuff was all over in the truck and they looked at the video tape from the night before.
These scum probably just walk around and try every vehicle door and figure one will be unlocked sooner or later.

Sam1911
January 14, 2013, 06:40 AM
I do not think it is irresponsible to leave a rifle or handgun in a car while eating a meal, enjoying a swim, going horseback riding, or any number of activities that preclude the carry of a gun. Sometimes, there is no other choice than to store a firearm in a car.

I freely admit it is more likely to get stolen, but sometimes that is the lesser of two evils. What do you guys do that work at a place where you cannot carry into the building? Do you go unarmed both before and after work, or do you leave it in the car? Just curious, because your car is probably parked at work for more hours of the day than it is parked at home.
Yes, there certainly are times when it is the lesser of the two evils. Or lesser of the two risks. And an occasional swim or something would probably fall into that category. Of course remember that there are criminals who think about where people often park and drop their valuables in the car ... so while you might not be doing this often, you probably are parking your car in a theft hot-spot.

At any rate, there are very inexpensive vehicle pistol safes which will go a long way to keeping at least the smash-&-grab guy from getting your gun, and maybe your wallet and I-phone too. If this is something you have to do (because of work) or will do at all often, that would be money well spent!

Inebriated
January 14, 2013, 07:27 AM
At any rate, there are very inexpensive vehicle pistol safes which will go a long way to keeping at least the smash-&-grab guy from getting your gun, and maybe your wallet and I-phone too. If this is something you have to do (because of work) or will do at all often, that would be money well spent!

This... Seriously guys, you can get those little Gun Vault safes for $35 that'll hold a G21 and two mags, but is still able to slide under a seat, and be tethered to one of the seat brackets. $35, out the door, to have a reasonable amount of protection for your firearm, and potentially multiple lives.

psyopspec
January 14, 2013, 10:55 AM
A few years ago I locked my vehicles all the time. Even in my driveway. Then one night punks broke a $600 window for a $150 radio. So now I don't lock up at home. I also don't leave ANYTHING in the vehicles.

This is also a good technique when driving a convertible. If you're parking with the top down, leave the windows to up to keep honest people honest, but, the doors unlocked and nothing of value inside. By "nothing of value" I also mean no backpacks, purses, laptop cases, etc in view. Parking top up, leave the doors unlocked and nothing of value inside. A ragtop just isn't secure storage, with either the top up or down, and I'd rather have someone take a look around and find nothing than cut the top to take a look around and find nothing.

ETA: I'm more talking about stepping in somewhere for lunch or leaving it in a car park for a couple hours. Overnight, garaged and locked if possible.

Mp7
January 14, 2013, 11:02 AM
has many forms - and some reflect on the impulse state of mind the person might have at times.

Muting the RKBA for a second. The OP knows his wife best.
Advising him to make her keep a ccw instead of a pepperspray
is political advice. Not sound advice.

A friend of mine recently sold his handguns due to ADHD.
He didnt feel safe with them, when he had his impulsive moments.

Grey_Mana
January 14, 2013, 11:13 AM
Sorry about your loss.

Since the car was unlocked, your auto insurance probably doesn't cover the loss. Might be worth checking your policy though.

Since the car was in your driveway, your homeowners insurance might cover the loss. However, the claim might affect your rates (which would be especially annoying if they don't cover the loss).

Some credit cards cover stolen purchases for a window of time.

If your state has a Victims Compensation Fund, you might be eligible to apply for compensation.

holdencm9
January 14, 2013, 11:18 AM
Well, the pros and cons (and relative risks and rewards) were already discussed in great detail in this thread here, so there is no point re-hashing any of that. (Thread originally about trunk gun but lots of good commentary about guns in the cabin as well)

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-663466.html

However, I'll just say, if you must leave a gun in a vehicle, leave it in the trunk, and lock the latch that enables you to "pop the trunk" from the cabin of the vehicle. Also lock the flip-down seats if your vehicle has them, preventing any access to the trunk from the vehicle cabin.

In my car, both things lock using the regular ignition key, and in doing so, anything in the trunk is much more secure than anything in the cabin. It would take a pretty robust effort to get into the trunk, not impossible, but tougher than a smash n grab job. Also it has the added benefit of being concealed, so most criminals won't attempt to get in there unless they know the payoff will be worth their extra efforts.

beatledog7
January 14, 2013, 11:22 AM
I'm not in the "leaving a gun in your vehicle is asking for it to be stolen" camp.

Thefts from cars are most often carried out by petty thieves who can either see something inside they want or find the vehicle unlocked and decide to have a look around. The best defense is to make sure they can do neither.

holdencm9
January 14, 2013, 12:06 PM
I'm not in the "leaving a gun in your vehicle is asking for it to be stolen" camp.

Thefts from cars are most often carried out by petty thieves who can either see something inside they want or find the vehicle unlocked and decide to have a look around. The best defense is to make sure they can do neither.

I agree, most thefts are crimes of opportunity. They see something valuable, no one is around, hence, smash n grab. So a gun hidden away in the glove box (which also can be locked separately, usually) is not "asking" to be stolen, but if the doors are unlocked or there is anything else exposed in the vehicle, the car is an easy target, and the gun is a collateral loss.

It is a fine line between "blaming the victim" and trying to point to ways that it could have been avoided, for future reference. As Sam humorously pointed out, if you walked around a sketchy neighborhood in a tutu with rolex watches singing racist things, it may not be your FAULT you get beat up and robbed, but you surely could have taken measures of avoidance. It doesn't exonerate the people who actually did the crime, but I think any rational well-adjusted person should be able to look back retrospectively, self-analyze and be comfortable taking on some level of responsibility.

mgmorden
January 14, 2013, 12:34 PM
I'm really torn about what to do about my wife carrying a gun moving forward.

Hindsight 20/20, I think she (ADHD) may be too forgetful to have a firearm in her possession..... I can't watch over her 24/7.

This has me really bothered right now.

No offense, but it sounds like you're treating her more like a child than your wife. She's a legal adult - she can make her own decisions.

zdc1775
January 14, 2013, 12:52 PM
A few years ago I locked my vehicles all the time. Even in my driveway. Then one night punks broke a $600 window for a $150 radio. So now I don't lock up at home. I also don't leave ANYTHING in the vehicles.

Mark
Had a similar experience. I drive a soft top Jeep and would always lock the doors. One day the wife and I go to Seattle to the Pacific Science Center for something to do. Parked the Jeep in a parking garage down the street and went in. Came back two hours later and some A-hole had sliced open the top and pried open the glove box. Their total haul a pack and a half of cigarettes and about twenty 800mg Motrin. My bill $1800.

Rezin
January 14, 2013, 01:01 PM
I am glad I read this. For the last few weeks, I have been thinking of denoting my Bersa Thunder to a truck gun. I would leave it in my truck, that way it's there on those rare occasions I don't have my ccw. I coold lock it in my glove compartment, but I figure that is not much safer.

Claude Clay
January 14, 2013, 01:19 PM
been said already

2nd 41
January 14, 2013, 08:11 PM
No offense, but it sounds like you're treating her more like a child than your wife. She's a legal adult - she can make her own decisions.
Making own decisions yes...good ones no. How about if a gun owner knows exactly where their gun is. And keeps it secure when not being carried. It's not an iPhone to simply leave in purse 24/7

wow6599
January 14, 2013, 09:42 PM
No offense, but it sounds like you're treating her more like a child than your wife.

None taken. And yes, I am treating her like a child because she deserves to be treated as such. She is my wife, who I love - but makes mistakes like a kid would.

gunsandreligion
January 14, 2013, 10:18 PM
I personally feel that when carrying, a mini safe/ lockbox bolted under the seat for instances that require leaving the firearm in the vehicle is a neccesity. I also personally have a aftermarket alarm with engine immobilizer, becouse my car is kind of my baby, and if anyone messes with it i want to know, and I also dont want to lose my radar detector, cb, or aftermarket sound system.

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