Failure To Feed Problem, Please HELP...


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Ares1307
January 14, 2013, 01:37 AM
I have a new SAR Arms B6P Compact that I've been having some Failure To Feed issues with. When I first got it all I shot was Blazer aluminum cased ammo, but lately all I can find is RWS and Remington UMC. With the Blazer ammo the gun shot perfectly, but with the RWS and UMC its been having some problems. With the RWS the first round in the mag gets jammed when I try to rack the slide, but the rest of the mag usually fires fine. The UMC Fails to Feed more often (2-4 of every 10 rounds FTFs).

When the round FTF the nose of the round is pushed up against the top of the chamber and when I tap the slide forward it pushes into battery, but I noticed yesterday that some of the casings had indentations.

When I took the barrel out of the slide and simulated chambering a round by hand it looked like the feed ramp was too steep, but I'm still kind of new to pistols so I don't really know. I put a tiny bit of lube on the feed ramp (out of curiosity) and it seemed to help, not sure if that means anything or not.

I've read about people sanding the feed ramp, or changing the recoil spring so its lighter or heavier, but I don't know if any of these remedies would help in my situation.

The LGS that I bought the pistol from does not offer any kind of warranty. I live in a small town so pistols and ammo are scarce.

Any advice, suggestions, or help at all will be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

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wally
January 14, 2013, 11:27 AM
Posting some photos of the failure would help a lot.

I've quit buying the UMC ammo because of too many issues with bullet setback -- the bullet pushes into the case instead of climbing the feed ramp. If it doesn't jam, it can cause potentially dangerous over pressure.

No experience with the RWS.

I've shot large quantities of the CCI aluminum Blazer back when Adademy regularly sold it for $3.86/50, never a problem.

ku4hx
January 14, 2013, 01:54 PM
Clean it thoroughly and lube it as advised in the owner's manual. Before you try any irreversible surgery on it, try different ammunition. You may have to try several brands and you may have to fire a few hundred rounds to fully "break-in" the gun.

It's not uncommon for some guns to be a mite persnickety about ammunition.

Ares1307
January 14, 2013, 05:57 PM
Thank you both for your replies. If I get a chance to hit the range today I'll take my camera with me and snap a couple of pictures.

My pistol probably wouldn't be considered to be broken in yet, I have 400 or 500 rounds through her ATM. And I've only tried three different types of ammo so far, Blazer aluminum, RWS, and UMC. Usually I only shoot Blazer or Winchester White Box, but WWB has been sold out in town for over a month and Blazer for two or three weeks.

ku4hx
January 14, 2013, 06:22 PM
400-500 rounds can generally be considered enough to be "broken-in". Regardless of what's available, if you keep experiencing problems with certain ammunition, you need to stop using it. Or at the very least use it for non defense shooting where you are in complete control.

Ammunition that consistently caused problems is a PITA, but it can also force you to learn and practice clearing faults. Not something you want to happen in a defensive encounter, but it's always good to have the skills.

Supplies are severely depleted, but you can order ammunition over the internet. I do that about every five years or so to refresh my SD ammunition. Buying it all at once tends to mitigate S&H cost.

tarosean
January 15, 2013, 12:52 AM
Also mark your magazines to differentiate them... If there are more issues from one of them... Clean, toss, rebuild or replace....

Ares1307
January 15, 2013, 03:54 AM
I will definitely stay away from the ammo that has been giving me problems. I just wish I would have bought just one box of each to try out, but oh well, lesson learned.

I went to big 5 today and they have PMC, Winchester USA (white box), and Fiocchi. I have experience with Winchester (but I've never shot it through this pistol), but I have no experience with PMC or Fiocchi. Any input about those two brands?

BTW: Are there any websites online that you would suggest for buying ammo?

Thanks for the tip about marking the mags, they seem to act the same, but I'll mark them just in case.

And for Defense ammo I use Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 147 Gr. ammo, which feeds perfectly in my pistol. I haven't tried any other defense loads yet, but I've been using PDX1 for a while (with other pistols) and its reliable, consistent, and accurate.

ku4hx
January 15, 2013, 08:46 AM
Are there any websites online that you would suggest for buying ammo?
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/10mm?sort=1&group=3

My go to site for all things ammunition; select your caliber and go.

As to PMC or Fiocchi I have no idea how your gun will like them. I don't recall ever firing either ... you'll have to try them and see. With the exception of the 150 or so SD rounds I buy every few years (Remington, Speer, Federal, Hornady and/or Winchester), all I shoot are my own loads.

foghornl
January 15, 2013, 11:15 AM
I have shot PMC in both auto & revolver calibres, and it always works well.

Note, however that Your Mileage Will Vary (PMC might just become the "Bees Knees" in YOUR gun, or it may flop. But since you HAVE to test ammo.......)

Ares1307
January 15, 2013, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the tips guys. I checked out that site, it has some good prices. Every other site I've passed through either only sells bulk ammo or charges limbs for shipping. I'm going to head to Big 5 in a while to exchange my last box of UMC for WWB or PMC.

The Lone Haranguer
January 15, 2013, 11:12 PM
Does this happen when you chamber the first round by hand? How about if you lock the slide back, insert a magazine, thumb down the slide stop and let the slide slam home? (This assumes the gun has an external slide stop.) I'm wondering about your slide racking technique.

Ares1307
January 16, 2013, 02:05 AM
I don't have any more of the RWS ammo, which is the ammo that would FTF on the first round only. It would FTF the first round about 8 or 9 times out of ten, but I never used the slide release to chamber a new mag. Part of the problem was probably my technique, this is my first pistol with such a short slide so I'm still getting used to it. I have a bad habit of letting my hand 'follow the slide' and sometimes racking the slide too slow because its a bit harder to grip than I'm used to. But even when I would rack the slide cleanly it would still jam up, and often.

With the UMC ammo I get FTFeed problems throughout the mag, 2 - 5 FTFs per mag of 10 (I only load to 10 when target shooting). I traded my last box of that ammo today for Winchester NATO, which I've never tried, but the bullet shape is similar to my defense rounds (which feed perfectly) so I thought I would try them out.

Ares1307
January 17, 2013, 03:22 AM
I shot some Winchester NATO 124 Gr. FMJ rounds today, I bought a box of 50 to try out. I still had some FTFeed issues, but only with the first round of each mag. I used the slide release to chamber two rounds, both times it jammed up.

Here are a few pictures of a round failing to feed, this is about as clear as I can get it with my photography skills. I hope this helps.
http://imageshack.us/a/img15/4599/003yyc.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/8007/002nyv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img546/8932/001iah.jpg

ku4hx
January 17, 2013, 03:48 AM
Try the "hand over" or "pinch" methods to release the slide for the first round. Make sure you'll pulling the slide fully rearward and letting go cleanly so it slams forward with full force. The idea is to not "follow" the slide home. That can be a problem as you surmise.

Does this happen regardless of the number of rounds in the magazine? You might want to chamber a few founds with the barrel out of the pistol. This would help confirm whether or not chamber is overly tight. Ideally, fresh rounds should drop completely into a clean chamber with a slight "plunk" sound and then fall freely out when the barrel is inverted.

Ares1307
January 17, 2013, 05:37 AM
The hand over technique is a bit awkward for me with the size of the slide, but I don't think technique is the whole problem. I took the barrel out and did what you suggested, the bullet goes in and out with ease. However, I simulated chambering a round with the mag, barrel, and slide, and the round still failed to feed. It feels like the nose of the bullet gets stuck rubbing the top of the inside of the chamber, there is a noticeable crease were the rifling begins, and that is what stops the nose of the bullet from moving forward. I'm still knew to pistols so I'm not sure if this explains the FTF issues that my pistol is having, but its the only explanation that I've found. If I'm right, is there any way to have this fixed or would the entire barrel need to be replaced?

ku4hx
January 17, 2013, 05:42 AM
If you can't contact the manufacturer, have it looked at by a competent gun smith. Preferably one with experience with your gun.

Ares1307
January 17, 2013, 05:54 AM
I emailed EAA and they emailed me back and told me to send it in, but I've heard some horror stories about EAA so I waited to contact Davidson's Gallery of Guns. My LGS gets most of his guns through them so I got lucky, I'm going to send to them to fix. I wish they had more in stock, it would be much quicker to have it replaced rather than fixed.

Thank you for all of your help. I'm just glad to find out what (probably) the problem is so I can get it worked on.

Ares1307
January 20, 2013, 04:29 PM
I talked to my LGS and they said they think they ordered it from Davidson's Gallery of Guns, so that is where we are going to send it, but I have to wait until Monday. The LGS owner is going to make sure that it came from GOG before we send it off. Well I still have some rounds left so I bought a 100 round box of WWB (Winchester USA White Box) to shoot off tomorrow before sending it out. I shot about three mags today and had NO FTFs. I don't know why but all of a sudden the pistol is shooting flawlessly, even with the left over NATO rounds I shot that FTF last time. Maybe it was still breaking in?

Bovice
January 21, 2013, 01:50 PM
Was the gun lubricated?

Ky Larry
January 21, 2013, 02:13 PM
When I get a new autoloader, I polish the feed ramp with jewelers rouge. I also check the magazine feed lips for burrs and bending.

wally
January 21, 2013, 03:02 PM
From the photos, its not really a feed issue as the bullet nose is inside the chamber. I'd look for FOD under the extractor or worn out mag springs, maybe a burr on the breech face. Everything looks right from the photo except the round is not slipping under the extractor making a three point jam with the extractor, bottom of the barrel and top of the chamber.

Does the round chamber if you give the back of the slide a sharp "whack"? If so then I'd try a new recoil spring.

Does it chamber if you pull it back about 1/4" and let go? If so, I'd get new magazine springs.


Since it only seems to do it on the first round out of the mag, I'd bet the problem is the mag springs have gotten weak enough to not handle a full load, What happens if you download the magazine by a round or two instead of loading it fully?

Ares1307
January 21, 2013, 04:52 PM
Yes the gun was lubricated, I clean it and lube it after each time its fired.

If I give the back of the slide a quick whack, that is usually all it needs. And most of the time, its a short light tap to the back of the slide. Every once in a while, if the tap doesn't work, then pulling the slide back a little and releasing it works instead.

But both mags are new, one came with the pistol which I got on Christmas Eve, the other I ordered from EAA (it came in a week or so ago).

I'll take her apart again tonight after work and look for burrs and FOD.

Ares1307
January 21, 2013, 06:19 PM
If I need a recoil spring, I would need a stronger one right? If so how much stronger? I found some that are 1, 3, and 5 pounds stronger than the factory springs, but I don't know which to buy.

Ares1307
January 22, 2013, 01:52 AM
I shot 100 rounds today (87 of WWB and 13 of Winchester NATO) and only had ONE FTF, and it was mid mag during quick double taps. I don't really know why my pistol is now shooting much more reliably, but I am happy it is doing so. Usually with 100 rounds I would have had 10 - 20 FTFs, so having just the 1 today is amazing. I hope my pistol continues to be reliable. Thank you all for all the info and advice so far.

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