I was shooting with two bench-rest guys and they said that total removal of the copper fouling exposed the imperfections in the barrel causing the accuracy to diminish.
They also said they cleaned the “excess” fouling out with a non-imbedding compound like J&B and that resulted in a smoother surface that would not catch the copper. Their targets supported the statements they made.
Has anybody had this experience with a non-imbedding compound and found it satisfactory or unsatisfactory?
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January 14, 2013, 08:48 AM
Choo: Has anybody had this experience with a non-imbedding compound and found it satisfactory or unsatisfactory?
You kinda have the answer to your question already since you talked to the Benchrest guys and saw their targets. What else do you want to know?
January 14, 2013, 11:22 AM
It depends on the condition of the bore. If it's and older gun and the copper is filling in the bad spots then the answer is yes. If you have a new bore the last thing you are going to do is allow it to get copper fouled. Most of these guys are cleaning every 1-3 rounds and don't let copper build up.
One of the best things I ever did to my Ex Sniper Mosin was get rid of the copper fouling and start over. The accuracy settled in after 10 rounds and some heat.
There is a difference between some copper filling and copper fouling.
January 14, 2013, 12:32 PM
Accuracy is a relative term. To a competitive bench rest shooter it's in the 1/8 moa range.
January 14, 2013, 05:04 PM
I shoot rimfire benchrest, so copper isn't a concern to us, but lead fouling certainly is. I use liquid WipeOut on patches as my cleaner of choice. We have observed that each rifle takes a certain amount of 'seasoning' or fouling to shoot its best. Usually 5-10 shots will 'season' the barrel.
January 14, 2013, 05:43 PM
Well, I came here to learn… thanks guys,
Pete D. - “What else do you want to know?"
Exactly how do you do it?
At what point do you stop removing fouling and start to remove filling?
Are there compounds other than J&B that are as good or better?
January 14, 2013, 06:31 PM
I had one Remington 700P .308 that was a "Fouling Hog", requiring major use of Shooter's Choice and several cycles of Sweets 7.62 Copper Solvent to remove the fouling after just 20 rounds. I started using JB Bore Cleaner and the heavy fouling accumulation went away, and I could notice the barrel smoothing up when I pushed a dry patch through with a cleaning rod.
JB or Remington 40-X Bore Cleaner (Like JB but in an oil base instead of grease) is all I use for bore cleaning. Just follow the directions on the container.
Just my .02,
January 14, 2013, 08:01 PM
Are there compounds other than J&B that are as good or better? Take a look at Witch's Brew.
January 15, 2013, 08:28 AM
I am a bit of a skeptic about some of what we believe concerning fouling and its removal.
What I do with my centerfire guns is run patches down for normal cleaning. If the color of the patches indicates persistent copper fouling, then I will run a patch or two of J&B. Then we go back to regular patches to check the color. Maybe repeat. About the copper filling? I have not a clue about how one would gauge that. Not sure that I buy that whole idea. I do believe that those shooters have found some process that makes them able to shoot smaller groups and have labelled it as maintaining a "copper filled" barrel.
I understand that it is difficult to argue with targets but, that being said, a lot of this seems like magic. If a gun fouls with copper or lead, is there a point at which it stops fouling? I ask because, if fouling continues on after every shot, then the bore must be getting smaller and pressures increasing and the rate of fouling probably going up (from squeezing the bullet down an ever smaller bore). Is that what happens? If so, is it measureable?
I don't shoot benchrest .22s but I do shoot prone small bore. I rarely clean my target rifle barrels. I clean the action and the gun but leave the barrel alone except for an occasional bore snake pull through. They are as accurate now as they were ten years ago.
Some time ago, when I got interested in high power match shooting, I took to heart a comment made by Derek Martin, a high master service rifle shooter and owner of Accuracy Speaks, to the effect that I can clean the gun all I want and as soon as I fire it again, the barrel is fouled.
January 15, 2013, 12:18 PM
I have to agree with Ankeny on the Witch's Brew. A gunsmithing friend told me about this stuff, he uses it also. I tried it on my .223 rifle, couldn't believe how much stuff I was removing after I thought I'd cleaned the bore. Amazing product!