I'm a left leaning weenie. My conclusion on guns.


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AbitNutz
January 14, 2013, 10:03 AM
Yep, left leaning weenie here, born and raised in Manhattan NYC. I don't own an AR or AK. I don't have a concealed carry permit. I don't hunt. I don't belong to the NRA. I am a collector of fine weapons both old and new. I do target shoot with my grandchildren. Gun ownership is not my highest priority.

After looking at the all statistics and the horrible murders committed over and over by our twenty something young men. I have to side with the conclusion that this is a mental health issue.

The goal is to stop these kind of murders, right? We haven't lost sight of that, right? I suspect that if there were no guns that these sick people would hijack a school bus and drive it off a cliff. Believing that banning the sale of "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" is self deluding at best.

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WNC Seabee
January 14, 2013, 10:05 AM
Yup. It is really rather simple isn't it?

j.kramer
January 14, 2013, 10:27 AM
im liberal and i say there should be no gun control at all

every man should have a rifle
and since im liberal if they cant afford it the government should provide it

btw im from texas

Bob2222
January 14, 2013, 10:42 AM
I'm a "Classical Liberal" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism) (most of today's "liberals" aren't very liberal) and I don't believe in gun control, knife control or hammer control.

CLP
January 14, 2013, 10:51 AM
I'm a "Classical Liberal" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism) (most of today's "liberals" aren't very liberal) and I don't believe in gun control, knife control or hammer control.
The last two of those weapons, ironically, each accounted for more homicides than evil rifles in 2011 per official FBI stats....don't take my word for it, look it up. The links to the FBI site citing those stats are listed on various recent threads on THR. Forgive me for not including them here. Given that clubs/hammers and knives were used in more homicides than rifles, perhaps eBay ought to remove that ad for the "assault rock"...

tulsamal
January 14, 2013, 10:57 AM
There are the "hardcore believers" on the Left that really do see this as their big opportunity. Feinstein and Schumer being two of the most obvious examples. They will push gun control as the solution for any problem. And they will attempt to pass the broadest bills.

But once you leave those sorts behind, there are really two "drivers" of these gun control efforts.

1) Ideological. The modern GOP still mostly believes in the Reagan quote. "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." The party includes economic conservatives and social conservatives but a large percentage of all those groups within the party consider themselves to be libertarians.

On the other hand, the Democratic Party remains committed to the idea that some problems are too big or expensive or divisive to be solved in any other way than government. Whether it is hurricanes, unemployment, gay marriage, or health care, they really do believe that government should lead the way.

2) Reality. Elections. Demands from your political base, etc. The Democrats take in large amounts of money from various celebrities and politically active groups that strongly support gun control. If Democrats don't use this opportunity to pass their pet legislation, they will threaten to cut off their support and money. Any Democrat who attempts to be a moderate on this issue could well find themselves in a primary fight at re-election. And their opponent will be to their left. (We obviously see this same phenomenon on the Right with all directions reversed.)

So this reality leads to that phrase we've all heard until we are sick of it: "We've got to do something!" Politicians need to have successfully passed legislation that they can point at to demonstrate that they are actually doing something in Washington to address the problems the country faces. Legislators on the Right can satisfy their constituents on this issue by pointing out the things that didn't pass. Things they can claim to have blocked. But that isn't going to fly on the Left. They really do have to "pass something" in order to at least mollify their base. If not a new AWB, then magazine limits. Or pass a bill they claim closes that mythical "gun show loophole." SOMETHING!

Pointing out to them that their solutions don't address the very shootings they claim to be trying to prevent doesn't have any effect. They know that... most of them that appear to be idiots in public really aren't. They end up sounding like idiots because they try to "square the circle" when explaining their actions and policies to the media. They just hope that most of their supporters don't notice. Whatever pointless thing they manage to pass, at least they can wave it over their heads and proclaim a victory.

Gregg

CLP
January 14, 2013, 11:00 AM
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

Jaag
January 14, 2013, 11:33 AM
tulsamal sums it up pretty well. These people aren't stupid, well most aren't. They are master manipulators and really are no different that any con man. They use the same tactics. They do/say what ever it takes to win your confidence/vote and then continue on their self serving egotistical way promoting whatever agenda they think will yield the most votes to help them stay in office.
IMO there should be no such thing as a career politician. Maybe we just need to start over by dismissing all incumbents and breaking the cycle. The senior politicians have far to much power.

breakingcontact
January 14, 2013, 12:14 PM
If they actually wanted to fix the problem, they would focus on the ridiculous amounts of mind altering drugs that people are consuming at the direction of so called health and mental health professionals.

A lot of money in that industry though, so why not just hurt the 2nd Amendment instead.

Why waste a perfectly good crisis that was manufactured?

Art Eatman
January 14, 2013, 12:36 PM
The bottom line is that you cannot find any gun control law which has reduced the rate of violent crimes with firearms.

No law ever passed has prevented criminal action, insofar as crime rates. The occasional individual criminal might be dissuaded by the amount of punishment for a type of crime, not not of crime itself.

And people of unsound mind, until adjudicated as legally unsound, cannot be controlled by law. You know he's goofy; I know he's goofy--but until a judge says otherwise, in the eyes of the law he has full rights.

And while most of us agree that there is indeed a mental health problem, it is beyond the scope of this website to deal with it--beyond opinion and speculation.

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