NRA giving up on NY?


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GiorgioG
January 15, 2013, 06:01 PM
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2013/statement-from-the-national-rifle-association-of-america-regarding-the-passage-of-s-2230-in-new-york.aspx

...the NRA and our New York members remain committed to having a meaningful conversation about protecting our children and will speak frankly about the lawmakers who have failed to do so.

'meaningful conversation'? How about meaningful legal action? It feels like my membership fee, donations, etc. were wasted (at least at the state level.)

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chevyman097
January 15, 2013, 06:02 PM
Write them. Call them. They(NY) just signed the thing hours ago.

ATBackPackin
January 15, 2013, 06:07 PM
The vote in NY was railroaded and done purposefully that way so the lobby and the people could not do anything about it. They admitted as much in the Assembly today.

Trent
January 15, 2013, 06:10 PM
The vote in NY was railroaded and done purposefully that way so the lobby and the people could not do anything about it. They admitted as much in the Assembly today.

Yes, they did. They SPECIFICALLY said it was done this way to avoid pressure from lobbying groups.

GiorgioG
January 15, 2013, 06:26 PM
Write them. Call them. They(NY) just signed the thing hours ago.
I have been, as have many people - the legislators didn't care, and it's likely that the NRA will cede NY to concentrate on the national stage.

InkEd
January 15, 2013, 06:27 PM
It's a shame that NYC carries so much pull over the rest of the actual state. IMHO the current Cuomo is a cancer on the state just like his father, probably even worse.

I don't think things are going to improve much in New York, it's neighboring states, Illinois, and California. I hope the NRA tries to help the citizens of those states. However, I think it would be wise to not waste too many resources on lost-cause places that are made-up of a lot of wealthy liberals.

I think one of the causes the NRA needs to add to its agenda is to dissolve the electoral college or reform it so that each state gets an equal amount of votes like in the Senate. The select areas do NOT represent the majority of Americans.

Obama is NOT the CHOICE of MOST Americans. Gun control is NOT favored by MOST Americans. His other socialist policies (e.g. Obamacare) are NOT the CHOICE of MOST
Americans. He is the WORST president in the history of the country based on economic policy, national security, constitutional rights and abuses of power. Under the undesired and wrongfully elected rule of such a tyrant, it is essential that citizens maintain the rights granted to them by the founding fathers.

The purpose of the second amendment is to insure the security of the other amendments.

anchorman
January 15, 2013, 06:54 PM
Obama is NOT the CHOICE of MOST Americans. Gun control is NOT favored by MOST Americans.

Actually the numbers make a different case. "Gun control" in some form or another is favored by most americans. an confiscation is not favored. and regarding the president, he actually did win a plurality of the voting populace in addition to the electoral college. If you go by the number of votes cast, americans on the whole actually favored democrats to be in charge of the house too. if you are against them, you should be in favor of the gerrymandering that made the republican majority in the house possible. Republicans are a dying breed, and unfortunately for us as advocates of gun rights (since most democrats are not helping us), their other political positions are only going to marginalize them with the voting public further as time goes on, and open doors further for our rights to be restricted.

if we want to have the government on our side like it was for many years promoting gun rights and safety with programs such as the CMP, and not trying to restrict our rights, we are going to have to work at cultivating pro RKBA politicians on both sides of the aisle and change the game. the BOR and especially the 2A are not partisan issues, and we cannot afford to let them become such any more than they already are. we need to make it political suicide for politicians of any stripe to violate our rights.

parsimonious_instead
January 15, 2013, 06:59 PM
I was told this story by one of the fellows at my range. At a "friends of the NRA" dinner, he pointedly asked an NRA rep for some help with New York. He was basically told that they have mostly written off NYS, good luck and good night.
Funny, though, how they'll still happily accept new members and donations from NYS though...

browningguy
January 15, 2013, 07:14 PM
As long as New York keeps electing those types of people that's what they'll get. Heck, in NYC the government even tells them how big a coke serving can be and everyone seems fine with that.

Apachedriver
January 15, 2013, 07:15 PM
I was told this story by one of the fellows at my range. At a "friends of the NRA" dinner, he pointedly asked an NRA rep for some help with New York. He was basically told that they have mostly written off NYS, good luck and good night.
Funny, though, how they'll still happily accept new members and donations from NYS though...

And they should continue to accept them. The thing is as powerful as the NRA and the rest of these groups may be, they can't win anything without the support of the people there. While you have many in NY willing to act, you have more that are willing to let others take actions on their behalf with out putting effort of their own beyond making payouts.

You can't win anything like that. Let's all take note and continue to take action.

Prince Yamato
January 15, 2013, 07:20 PM
Canada has better gun laws than NY, at this point. That should tell you something.

I'm from NY. I honestly had hope for the state. If you bolster the other states, you'll have a stronger chance of pushing hard against NY.

Right now, the most you can look forward to us getting the 7rnd mag limit tossed for 10 rounds.

Sam1911
January 15, 2013, 07:20 PM
I can't speak as to whether or not the NRA has "written off" NY, but when you look at what just happened this afternoon it is really hard to imagine what the NRA could possibly have done. The vote was totally skewed toward a train wreck of legislation that the supporters themselves admitted would do no good. As lopsided as the vote was, I can understand the NRA trying to shepherd the resources to places where it will do the most good. The NRA can't dictate law and it can't change the minds of so many millions of NY-ers and their befuddled "leaders." Folks have to WANT their rights...

The real heavy lifting on behalf of NY now shifts to fighting this in the courts, primarily the realm of by SAF.

BHP FAN
January 15, 2013, 07:22 PM
yep. the president won 150% in some districts.

Xyr
January 15, 2013, 07:27 PM
Am I even allowed to own a shotgun in NY now? And how the hell does "registration" of semi-auto's work?

InkEd
January 15, 2013, 07:27 PM
I should clarify.... majority of STATES (in the United States of America) were NOT for Obama! He did get a lot of votes. Especially, in some states that have known problems with
illegals committing voter fraud. (*cough* California*cough)

I feel that this country is EXTREMELY divided politically, morally and ethically.

Old Fuff
January 15, 2013, 07:31 PM
Sometimes you have to be cold-blooded practical.

With limited resources the NRA needs to put it's money where there is a chance of winning. Unfortunately New York State is not one of those places. The NRA can, and probably will join with others to carry the fight into the courts. But beyond that, given the political situation in New York, there is not a whole lot they can do.

If you are an NRA member you can (and should) write them and suggest practical and workable solutions or actions that might be undertaken.

I presume that in some districts you and others could help and support efforts to run new candidates - both in the primary and regular elections - where a gun control supporter might be unseated. Doing grunt work is no fun, but it makes the wheels go around.

barnbwt
January 15, 2013, 07:33 PM
Query: Is prosecution under a law passed without due process a denial of due process?

It sounded like a majority of voters on this legislation felt it was improperly rushed into law to avoid due debate. NYC is beyond the reach of external organizations at present, seems. Until NY and NYC form their own grass-roots activist circles capabale of taking on the entrenched establishment, there is little we outside the state can do for you folks, aside from waiting for a Supreme Court ruling.

By circumventing/subverting the rules guiding our Constitutional Republic, the leadership of that state (well, City, really) has ensconced itself via Democratic Majority. They have been working tirelessly for centuries to remove the shackles placed upon them by our Republic that protect minorities from arbitrary and punitive legislation.

You are not alone, but you are separated from us who would help by a thick barrier of accumulated State and local political power. It is a shame this overreach is not crass enough to provoke outright rebellion now, since that will be no longer be viable once this law comes to pass. Instead, they have selected slow strangulation as the means to best deny your human rights; hoping each incremental tightening of their fist will be tolerated by those they seek to rule with impunity.

Mass demonstrations and civil disobeince in downtown by gunowners of the outlying areas of the state are probably the only recouses at this point to force the leaders of the state to accomodate more than just their majority. I've been told gun ownership is prevalent in the areas away from NYC; if they make up even 2% of the population of that state, a massive protest or exhibition of civil disobedience may well force the hand of the state government. Convince people they need to spend a couple hundred now defending their rights by going downtown, or all their thousands in firearms will be forfeit within a decade.

At least NYC will lend credence to the argument that a round-limit will only lead to a reduced round-limit, and that bans of some guns will only lead to a ban of more, and that registration will only lead to confiscation and imprisonment of those exercising their God-given, Constitutionally-enumerated rights. It is terrible what has happened to you all, but from time to time we must lose the Alamo and Thermopylae so we might rally to victory in San Jacinto and Marathon.

All is not lost, but there is a long road ahead of ya'll. I'm sure that the rest of us Patriots outside your state will do our utmost to help when we are able. I am almost to the pont of advocating the covert legal personal manufacture of legal personal firearms and ammunition within the state to at least thwart the omniscient gaze on gun buyers.

TCB

Obama is NOT the CHOICE of MOST Americans. Gun control is NOT favored by MOST Americans. His other socialist policies (e.g. Obamacare) are NOT the CHOICE of MOST Americans
Neither were the Bolsheviks or the Jacobin Club--tyranny never enjoys majority backing, only majority acceptance

razorback2003
January 15, 2013, 07:36 PM
If you can get the 7 round thing tossed and raised to ten, that would be probably as good as you can do in court.

DC had to allow semi auto handguns with ten round magazines. After that and even with the dumb registration, DC is considered compliant with the 2nd Amendent. Chicago is the same way.

PRM
January 15, 2013, 07:42 PM
how the hell does "registration" of semi-auto's work?

They compile a data base of who has what and where. Then, they say those guns illegal. And, that knock at the door is NOT Publisher's Clearing House bringing you a check.

Once the madness is pushed back on a national level. Focus can then shift to areas where abuses of power have occurred. In the end, New Yorkers are going to have to do a better job of electing politicians. AND, this is not just in NY. Too many conservatives stayed home in Nov for whatever reason. Elections have consequences... a lot of folks just realized that when they got their first paycheck in 2013. Nothing from the government is ever free. It has to be taken from someone else first.

I would not be too quick to throw out the NRA. They are the 2nd Amendments biggest support group right now.

Prince Yamato
January 15, 2013, 07:47 PM
I think once a majority of people with pistol permits go and check to see if their gun is in compliance 8 months from now and realize, "oh, it's not?! I thought this only banned dangerous weapons?!" they'll reset it to 10 rounds. I don't think a large percentage of the "premises only" and "business only" permits in NYC have spoken yet. I think there'll be a backlash spurred by inconvenience.

Ryanxia
January 15, 2013, 07:49 PM
Right now the national level is so important I would think the NRA has it's sights on that for the next few weeks. That does not mean they have 'written off' individual states.

We need to stick together, there are other organizations out there but the NRA is working hard and still very powerful. Don't give up your membership, give it time and keep fighting the good fight.

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-Ben Franklin

ATBackPackin
January 15, 2013, 07:58 PM
You want to do something? Start by watching this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XefaPQzFbA).

ApacheCoTodd
January 15, 2013, 08:25 PM
Visions of the NRA throwing in the towel in California on that ban.

To be fair though, the California thing was a long time in the offing and not always a "sure thing"

These NY clowns rammed this through in record time in part to this end regarding the speed: (Form CBS) "Cuomo said he wanted quick action to avoid a run on assault weapons and ammunition as he tries to address what he estimates is about 1 million assault weapons in New York state."

Sergei Mosin
January 15, 2013, 08:51 PM
As Sam said, the fight in New York will now shift to the courts. There are many, many grounds upon which to challenge this bill, and I hope that free New Yorkers will fight for their rights, and that those of us outside New York will support them in that fight. But right now the bigger battle is at the national level.

Skribs
January 15, 2013, 08:56 PM
Doing away with the electoral college would let my vote matter. I'm sure that the left doesn't want me to be able to vote for the president, and neither wants to open up the ballpark for other parties.

I hope the NRA-ILA is pressuring the New York courts to see our side of things. Especially with a law that was railroaded through just to "do something". Personally, if I were on their side of the fence, I'd be upset right now that the law was signed in like this, because doing it so forcefully means it can potentially be overrun by the courts.

Solo
January 15, 2013, 08:58 PM
What are possible legal options that can be pursued through the courts?

greenmtnguy
January 15, 2013, 09:31 PM
This is probably silly to consider, but I think it is past time for the United States to consider adding a 51st state to the union. I think that the disparities between metro NYC and the whole rest of the state from Albany - North & West deem it worthy fo the people of NY State to consider splitting up. The NYC metro zone can become their own little "Gun Free ********** of the East Coast" and keep their big government to tell them what to do and control their lives for them, while all the "upstaters" in the beautiful Adirondacks Mountain regions, Finger Lakes, etc. can for a New New York (or whatever they want to call it) and re-establish their way of life, constitutional rights, and more conservative, rural character.

Well, I can dream, can't I.

Good luck to you New York guys and gals - this really, really sucks.

JERRY
January 15, 2013, 09:39 PM
elections have consequences......prove it at the ballot box.

Okiegunner
January 15, 2013, 10:00 PM
Bloomberg, Cuomo, Spitzer, Koch...


Hmmm...I think I see a pattern. So, this is who New Yorkers vote for?? I guess Rudy was an anomally.

I feel sorry for you upstate and rural folks. You deserve better. Leave if you can, because politcally, I do not see it changing.

Good luck...

Ohio Gun Guy
January 15, 2013, 10:13 PM
The problem is, we really need our conservative and moderate justices to stick around for at least 4 more years.... hopefully there isnt any turn over or even court challenges for the next 20 years will get mucked up.

Voting has consequences. There are people reading this now and here that voted for them.....

velobard
January 16, 2013, 09:10 AM
There is a chance that NY overreached so far there will be a backlash. The NRA should keep up a membership effort there.

pseudonymity
January 16, 2013, 12:48 PM
You want to do something? Start by watching this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XefaPQzFbA).

I have to say that as a Saratoga county native, I am awfully proud of Kathy - especially given that she has only had a week on the job so to speak. This is a strong and gutsy stand.

The assembly "debate" was better. Anybody outside NY probably can not really understand the cultural division between upstate and downstate, and even Long Island to a lesser extent. The bills Assembly sponsor was Lentol, from a NYC district. To see what we faced, watch these:

Steve McLaughlin (http://youtu.be/LZ1W45Aq7Gc) just dismantles the legislation during debate. Extra points for his statement when his vote is called for - "How dare you, how DARE you to put New Yorkers at risk".

Jim Tedisco (http://youtu.be/Hy9RvnWe0mE) gives the chamber a badly needed lesson on the Constitution and the Second Amendment. His statement before his vote was taken was actually interrupted, no doubt due to the dressing down he accomplished during debate. I am very proud to say that he is my representative in the NY Assembly.

It is exceptionally difficult to just not lose hope now in NY. I am a NRA and SAF member. I bring my sons fatherless friends to Appleseed shoots so they can experience the lessons of history and know the accomplishment of watching their AQT scores improve. I shop at the LGS to give them my support. I stood on the street corner last weekend in Saratoga to counter the anti-gun protests outside the gun show. I emailed and called my representatives before the legislation was introduced.

All of this was not enough. If law abiding citizens do all these things, and elected reps like Steve and Jim get up and speak the truth and expose this legislation for what it is, what is the outcome? Nothing but negative - the governor and legislature in NY have treated the gun owning citizens of NY with just complete contempt, not even allowing them a public comment period to let their voices be heard.

If there is anybody, anywhere that has any encouraging word for us in this despicable, deplorable, unjust state we sure could use it.

hnk45acp
January 16, 2013, 01:09 PM
This is EXACTLY why the NRA should never have written off NY. NY thinks so goes NY so goes the country. A little help here in NY could have helped but they threw in the towel and now have to deal with other states picking up the NYS model and so they will have multiple battle fronts. Wake The F up! NRA!!!!

feedthehogs
January 16, 2013, 01:20 PM
Just wow.

Blame the NRA for the complete failure of new york residents to run and elect gun friendly politicians.
Activism is much much more than voting every 4 years and sending 30 bucks a year to an organization to do the work for you and are surprised when you empire state residents get hosed.

Those of us in free states having been yelling at you about the slim politicians you elect to office and warning you the consequences. Like california you ignored the warnings and now you have to live with the consequences.

Quit whining about the NRA, dig your feet in, put your man pants back on and fight for cryin out loud. Fight hard.

GiorgioG
January 16, 2013, 01:45 PM
Quit whining about the NRA, dig your feet in, put your man pants back on and fight for cryin out loud. Fight hard.
According to the July 1, 2004 Census Bureau Estimate, New York City and its six closest New York State satellite counties (Suffolk, Nassau, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and Orange) have a combined population of 12,626,200 people, or 65.67% of the state's population.

This has nothing to do with man-pants and everything to do with the entire state being dictated by the will of the NYC area residents/politicians.

rbernie
January 16, 2013, 01:50 PM
This is true of most states these days, from Cali to Maryland to Florida to Illinois - the large cities drive the politics of the state.

pseudonymity
January 16, 2013, 01:55 PM
Quit whining about the NRA, dig your feet in, put your man pants back on and fight for cryin out loud. Fight hard.

I am not blaming the NRA in this case, but if you think just working harder is going to help here, lets face some facts. NY is more or less 3 areas - Long Island, NYC/downstate and upstate (the rest of the state). NYC residents basically have little or no use for guns, and that is the way they want things to stay.

NYC has a population of about 8 million+. Lets put that into perspective - that is a population that is slightly larger than Virginia, or Idaho, Maine, New Hampshire, Montana, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming - combined.

The upstate/LI area is about 11 million. So we need support of about 8 out of 10 voters to counter the NYC influence. Fighting hard is not going to get it done in NY, but fighting smart and putting lots of effort behind focused battles we can win just might help a bit.

Old Fuff
January 16, 2013, 03:04 PM
Being old has its disadvantages, but I can still vaguely remember the Dec. 7th, 1941 attack on Pear Harbor, and the war that followed.

We were pretty much unprepared and got caught with our pants down. The Japanese strike was intended to wipe out our entire Pacific Fleet and Air Force assets in that area. It almost succeeded, but fortunately our aircraft carriers were at sea.

It took time for us to recover, and shift gears, but after getting badly beaten through 1942 and part of í43 things changed. By mid-1945 a Japanese delegation was standing on the deck of a battleship in Tokyo Bay ready to surrender.

What we are going through now is a gun control advocatesí equivalent of the Pearl Harbor attack. We didnít see it coming and were unprepared. Now there is a lot of confusion mixed with doom & gloom. Sure we have taken a hit, and itís likely we will take some more. But by the time the 2014 elections come around I have no doubt that we will be in fighting trim. We have beaten the forces behind gun control before, and ultimately we will do it again.

For the moment we have to fight a holding action, and among other things burying legislatures under huge piles of mail is a good start. Laws like the one passed in New York will be challenged in court, but the actions must be carefully thought out and prepared.

The only sure way to lose is to simply give up. I for one wonít do it.

Sam1911
January 16, 2013, 03:58 PM
Fuff, that aught to be on our masthead! Beautiful and true.

feedthehogs
January 16, 2013, 04:08 PM
Surprise attack?

You have got to be kidding me. Its been coming for years waiting for the right time.

Baaaaaaaaa.

Loc n Load
January 16, 2013, 04:35 PM
For those of us who have taken an active role in fighting for our 2A rights for years, the event in NY is not any surprise.....ever listened to the mayor of NYC? RAbid, foaming at the mouth anti gunner.....NYC is to NY what Cook County is to Illinois.....same way with the big liberal metro areas on the left coast.
If it wasn't for the NRA, the GOA, the SAF and the other RTKBA groups, you all would have been stripped of your right to own guns years ago. As in any war, you must know where to fight, and not continue to throw assets at lost causes.....I always have to wonder when I hear folks bashing the NRA and other's, just how involved they are in the fight.
Back biting and fighting among ourselves will only serve the anti's.....you are either part of the solution, or part of the problem.

rjrivero
January 16, 2013, 04:43 PM
The New York State Rifle and Pistol Association posted on their website:

NYSRPA, in co-operation with the NRA, are having the Cuomo law reviewed by a highly qualified legal team. We ask that no other 3rd party legal action be taken without prior consultation. We realize that this law impacts a large number of people, but a proper legal review will take some time. Please do not call or e-mail the office or directors. If/when there is an announcement on this issue, it will be published on our website. Thank you for your understanding.

Old Fuff
January 16, 2013, 04:49 PM
You have got to be kidding me. Its been coming for years waiting for the right time.

Sure - it's been expected in the background, but nobody I know of expected a mad-man to kill a classroom full of little kids and a few adults.

Be that as it may, everyone knows now so the question is, how do we respond to the threat? Solid suggestions are welcome.

ZeSpectre
January 16, 2013, 09:56 PM
Old Fuff Said: The only sure way to lose is to simply give up. I for one wonít do it.

+1 on that!

RangerHAAF
January 16, 2013, 10:26 PM
I consider New York to be occupied enemy territory and I think malevolent gun control will probably advance to the Mason Dixon line and be stopped hard at the Virginia state line. Nothing national will pass since the anti-gunners still have 1994 in their minds and remember that vote cost 54 House members and 8 Senators their careers in Congress.

Propforce
January 16, 2013, 11:00 PM
Has the NRA announce that they will fight this in courts?

rjrivero
January 16, 2013, 11:02 PM
The New York State Rifle and Pistol Association posted on their website:
Has the NRA announce that they will fight this in courts?
Yes. Through the NYSRPA.
NYSRPA, in co-operation with the NRA, are having the Cuomo law reviewed by a highly qualified legal team. We ask that no other 3rd party legal action be taken without prior consultation. We realize that this law impacts a large number of people, but a proper legal review will take some time. Please do not call or e-mail the office or directors. If/when there is an announcement on this issue, it will be published on our website. Thank you for your understanding.

anchorman
January 16, 2013, 11:21 PM
I consider New York to be occupied enemy territory and I think malevolent gun control will probably advance to the Mason Dixon line and be stopped hard at the Virginia state line.

don't worry, they won't possibly make it all the way to georgia. My impression from most of my northern friends is that they are having second thoughts about keeping the south post civil war, and it seems the feeling is mutual. it's kind of a shame people can't figure out how to play nice.

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 12:03 AM
I think one of the causes the NRA needs to add to its agenda is to dissolve the electoral college or reform it so that each state gets an equal amount of votes like in the Senate. The select areas do NOT represent the majority of Americans.

While I agree with the sentiments on much of what you said in your post, this topic is a pet peeve of mine.

Many people either do not understand the Electoral College, or have not bothered to do any reading on not only how it works, but the historical why's in the way it is written.

In short, the president is not a local or state representative. He runs for office on a nation wide scale, which necessarily encompasses many times the number of people, cultures, economic backgrounds, ethnicities, and so forth that local or state levels have. Among other things, the Electoral College balances the state concerns with the population concerns. Much like we do with the House of Representatives (by population) and the Senate (by state) in Congress.

There are other things that the Electoral College does as well.

While I am open to the idea of some changes, "reform" (which implies an major overhaul or replacement) is not only unnecessary...it is fraught with its own dangers because, as we're seeing now, people tend to think with their emotions and not their heads.

For example:

Periodically you hear people crying out for electing the president by popular vote instead of by the Electoral College. Doing so would mean the large population centers would be the sole factor in deciding who the next president will be. Rural populations and small states will no longer be represented because they would far below the point of diminishing returns with respect to campaign efforts.

By the same token, if the election were based only by states, with each state having equal representation, then states with high populations would be disporportionately out voted on a consistent basis and the concerns of much larger numbers of people would not have to be addressed or catered to by candidates.


And as another side note:

You said that the select areas do not represent the majority of Americans.

This actually may NOT be true. With a total population of just over 310 million people, only about 80 million or so are gun owners. That leaves 230 million Americans who are NOT gun owners. Given that these 230 million people do not own guns, it is fair to say that the majority of them, for whatever reason, do not feel the need for them. And it would also be fair to say that a pretty significant number of those 230 million probably don't see the need that ANYBODY should have (fill in the blank) guns. It would only take about 1/3 of those people being pro-gun control to put them on an equal basis with the 80 million gun owners.

Toss in the fact that out of 80 million gun owners, there is a percentage of them who are ambivalent or believe in stronger gun laws. This means that not all of those 80 million are as pro-gun as, say, the people typically representated here on THR.

Which means that there very likely IS a majority of Americans out there who are represented by these people. Ignoring that possibility means that people will ignore strategies they should be considering in order to counter that.

The question, therefore, is whether or not the rest of us can hold sway as a minority group and retain our rights for EVERYBODY as we see them under the 2nd Amendment.


Sorry if I went too far off topic here.

:)

anchorman
January 17, 2013, 02:13 AM
Well said, except that when you quote the 230 million who are not gun owners, you are missing that a good number of these people are underage or otherwise prohibited from owning guns due to felony charges, etc. maybe a more interesting number is how many American households have guns? I think that is closer to 3/4.

RetiredUSNChief
January 17, 2013, 07:26 AM
Well said, except that when you quote the 230 million who are not gun owners, you are missing that a good number of these people are underage or otherwise prohibited from owning guns due to felony charges, etc. maybe a more interesting number is how many American households have guns? I think that is closer to 3/4.

True that.

I didn't consider it much in my posting because a percentage of those 80 million gun owners are also "underage"...and own shotguns and rifles. The minimum age for long guns in the following states is below 18 years of age:

Alaska (16)
Minnesota (16)
Montana (14)
New York (16)

Federal law prevents FFL's from selling long guns to people under 18, but it does not make possession illegal for them. States have taken it upon themselves to legislate that.

Source: http://smartgunlaws.org/minimum-age-to-purchase-possess-firearms-policy-summary/

How significant is this? Probably not very when compared to the total overall numbers of people of that 230 million who are children, like you said. I just didn't consider that.

Buuuuuuut...many of those minors have opinions of their own, which we saw President Obama take political advantage of when he made his national announcement on the stand his administration is taking on gun control and gun violence yesterday. So they can't realistically be entirely discounted either.

Those children of today are the adults of tomorrow. Consider that another chess move in the long term political game of gun control.

:scrutiny:

tomrkba
January 17, 2013, 07:18 PM
There is a chance that NY overreached so far there will be a backlash.

No, because New York gun owners will not do what is actually necessary to clean out their government. They will comply because they've been told to do so.

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