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wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:18 PM
I anticipate one of the moderators closing this, but I hope not.

When do we have a real discussion about our rights being trampled on, with an action plan that is considered by some to be taboo?

With what has been pushed through as "law" in NY, or the POTUS ready to execute executive orders that circumvent the other 2 branches of government, isn't it time to really sit back and look at what is going on?

May it be a blatant attack on our constitutional rights, or our God given rights as free men and women, we have a duty as Americans to follow the constitution to remedy ourselves of tyranny. And make no mistake about it, tyranny is upon us.

Whether you break-down the 2nd amendment, read the Federalist papers (#46) or just look back at the history of the birth of America - not just the country, be the ideals behind it - we have a responsibility to act.

Socialism (Marxism) is upon us, and if THR dosn't want to have a real discussion about it, then I no longer need to be a member.

What happened today in NY.......well, it's the way slaves are made.

If you enjoyed reading about "This is the new THR" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dom1104
January 15, 2013, 09:24 PM
Dude, this is America.

We PAY the NRA to do the acting FOR us.

Its 25 bucks. Its not so bad, you get a magazine and discounts and stuff.

Its also way less, you know, death-ey.

SuperNaut
January 15, 2013, 09:25 PM
There has been an activism forum on THR for years and the NRA is the largest lobbying org in the country.

RevDerb
January 15, 2013, 09:26 PM
I agree. I don't understand how any branch of the firearms community can dance around this topic and still claim to be supportive of firearms, 2A and shooting sports. This may very well be my last visit here. :banghead:

hogshead
January 15, 2013, 09:26 PM
So true.Gotta get our heads out of the sand.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:27 PM
There has been an activism forum on THR for years.

So? This isn't about activism, this is now about stopping corruption.......

SuperNaut
January 15, 2013, 09:29 PM
Yes that's called activism.

Onmilo
January 15, 2013, 09:30 PM
When majority votes from both side of the political field and shoves the legislature through without any allowance for lobby intervention, you no longer have a government working for the people. You have a Legislature working against the people. That, in and of itself, is tyranny.

LemmyCaution
January 15, 2013, 09:31 PM
Socialism (Marxism) is upon us, and if THR dosn't want to have a real discussion about it, then I no longer need to be a member.

Be sure and shut the door behind you on the way out.

hogshead
January 15, 2013, 09:31 PM
Preach it in New York supernaught

Robert
January 15, 2013, 09:33 PM
What you are hinting at is your desire to talk about rising up and shooting people to achieve your goals. That is not the mission of THR at all. We will not entertain any talk about armed insurrection, mass up rising or any other hints about shooting people you disagree with. This is not the place for it. There are plenty of other sites on the internet that will let you talk about anything you want, it will not happen here.

And before I hear the free speech argument let me repost this:

A note on FREE SPEECH:

The First Amendment to the Constitution states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The First Amendment is greatly respected here on The High Road, as are all other Amendments that the Second Amendment defends. However, The High Road is private property and requests that members adhere to all forum policies. It is a contract agreed to by all who become members of The High Road. Those who break forum rules cannot invoke censorship or freedom of speech - a contract broken is a contract broken. If you do not like the rules of conduct or the acceptable topics, seek out a new venue to frequent or start your own board.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:33 PM
Yes that's called activism.

Alright then SuperNaut, you keep sending emails to corrupt politicians if it makes you feel "active". I'm sure their staffers really care......

herkyguy
January 15, 2013, 09:34 PM
Dude, this is America.

We PAY the NRA to do the acting FOR us.

Its 25 bucks. Its not so bad, you get a magazine and discounts and stuff.

Its also way less, you know, death-ey.
classic.

TennJed
January 15, 2013, 09:37 PM
You really want to talk about taking arms up against the govt on a public forum? You want us to discuss details where anyone can read it. There are many reasons why your post is a little absurd, but the obvious should be that anyone can read it.

Giving the details of your attack to the enemy usually is not too smart of a move

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:38 PM
What you are hinting at is your desire to talk about rising up and shooting people to achieve you goals.

Not even close to the truth. And I resent you implying so.

I am talking about face to face discussion. Letters written in ink. Phone calls.
Going to the state capitals on the 19th.

Making politicians accountable.

Cosmoline
January 15, 2013, 09:38 PM
I've said before that if it ever comes to a shooting war the first and last bullet I fire will be into my own chest, and I mean it. That option is reserved for the gravest extreme of true tyranny, and I have no desire to see such horrors play out. But that option is not to try to win a political fight or bully a foe. And not for a hissy fit because the otherwise LOSING side finally has a little bit of momentum behind it. Our side has won almost every single battle in the past generation on gun control in every arena. Tremendous strides have been made in concealed carry rights and in the courts. The fact that El Presidente is reduced to putzing around with EO's to get anything accomplished on his end is also a very good sign for us. To go off half cocked over this is dangerous madness, and I'm not going to support it. Aggressive action would simply turn the public hard against us in earnest--and not just in the MSM's spin rooms.

Girodin
January 15, 2013, 09:38 PM
We PAY the NRA to do the acting FOR us.

Paying a lobbying group is a piss poor replacement for doing your own activism as well. Giving money to a group like the NRA is well and good but it is hardly a replacement for other action. The proceeding comments are with respect to action well short of armed insurrection.

For what its worth, I wouldn't think armed insurrection would be prudent prior to an attempt to vindicate one's rights through the courts.

you keep sending emails to corrupt politicians if it makes you feel "active". I'm sure their staffers really care......

I've actually been staff for various politicians. Yes letters and calls can be important.

hso
January 15, 2013, 09:40 PM
I'm always amazed that people can demand people spill their blood on the barricades instead of participating in the political process of sending emails and letters to their elected representatives telling them they'll spend their time and hard earned money on ensuring their reelection or replacement depending upon how that elected official votes on specific issues.

I'm stunned that people can demand others charge into the guns of the oppressor instead of take out their credit card and charge a donation to the SAF or NRA/ILA to use the political process to stop oppressive firearms restrictions.

We're not to the point of resorting to violence unless we refuse to resort to the political process instead.

Pointshoot
January 15, 2013, 09:41 PM
I know many times political discussions degrade into name calling. This can disrupt other areas of a firearms web forum. (I asked some folks about this very question on another forum.)

Speaking for myself. I don't take what is said by others personally, and I don't mean for them to take what I say personally either (when it comes to politics). I like when people disagree with me, - if their argument is a sound one. They may bring up something I havent thought of before, or point out a misunderstanding or blindspot that I have. I see one benefit of a forum as being a place where we can all hammer out our arguments for defending the 2nd Amendment. We're very likely to hear those arguments from the antis, so I like to hear them first in a pro 2A forum.

But I guess some forums have been disrupted before. This seems like very immature and counterproductive behavior. It would seem to me that a political forum could be very helpful if it didn't degrade that way.

In any case, I am a believer in Liberty and property rights. That includes the right of an owner of a website to set whatever rules they think best. I hope that in these incredibly difficult times for defenders of the 2A that we could be like the early American founders. Those guys had heated debates and disagreements. They came up with a great synthesis from that. They knew in the end that they were all on the same side and they knew who was the real opposition. They were Men.

Flintstone
January 15, 2013, 09:43 PM
I,m a newcomer to the forum so I don't expect my comment to carry much weight, but--thanks Mr. Moderator, I agree with your stance 100%.

Robert
January 15, 2013, 09:44 PM
Not even close to the truth. And I resent you implying so.

I am talking about face to face discussion. Letters written in ink. Phone calls.
Going to the state capitals on the 19th.


So the dozens of threads we have had on that very subject in the last few weeks don't count? Really? I mean General and Activism are filled with threads on that very subject. There are even threads dealing with the reply many members have had from their elected representatives.

And if you are talking about straight political discussion:

We have learned from bitter experience that discussions of politics, abortion, religion, and sexual orientation often degenerate into less-than-polite arguments or claims that "my God is better than your God". For this reason, we do not discuss such subjects on THR, and any threads dealing primarily with these subjects will be closed or deleted immediately. Threads which deal with other subjects, but which mention abortion, religion or sexual orientation as a side issue, may be allowed to continue, but will be closely scrutinized, and closed or deleted if they "cross the line".

gp911
January 15, 2013, 09:48 PM
Nevermind

Impureclient
January 15, 2013, 09:49 PM
Any moderators from NY and have anything to say about today.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:49 PM
So the dozens of threads we have had on that very subject in the last few weeks don't count? Really? I mean General and Activism are filled with threads on that very subject. There are even threads dealing with the reply many members have had from their elected representatives.

Robert, find me members who have had the guts to go to their state capitals and demand answers. I swear to god, I am asking for folks to get off the keyboard and get face to face with policy makers to help our cause - like they did from the 1700's until the 1970's.

And BTW, I haven't practiced what I am preaching now..... and I feel ashamed.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 09:53 PM
Ok wow6599, what's your plan? It sure sounds like you want to discuss an armed imsurrection

gp911, where I have mentioned "armed imsurrection" (?)

Apachedriver
January 15, 2013, 09:57 PM
I anticipate one of the moderators closing this, but I hope not.

When do we have a real discussion about our rights being trampled on, with an action plan that is considered by some to be taboo?
.
.
.
What happened today in NY.......well, it's the way slaves are made.

Your above comments above allude to something very different than what you're saying below.

I am talking about face to face discussion. Letters written in ink. Phone calls.
Going to the state capitals on the 19th.

Making politicians accountable.

The stuff in your second quote has been going on in THR since I joined.

ETA: And I agree, we need to do more than we have until now. Contributing to the NRA is but one small action to get a large voice for us. We still need to stand up and be counted as well.

Impureclient
January 15, 2013, 09:59 PM
Ok wow6599, what's your plan? It sure sounds like you want to discuss an armed imsurrection. What are you doing or planning on doing to make a difference beyond what is already discussed here? Do you want to form a new group that open carries in intimidating garb like the Black Panthers? Or are you seriously wanting to get people to organize for militia-style training? Are you disappointed that there is little talk of attacking people, disrupting services, destroying things that represent the government and its authority?

I hear a lot of complaining, so lay it on me. Start the dialogue. How has THR let you down? What are we missing the boat on here?

If there was a great enough leader to set the ball in motion, what you said about fighting back dirty would be the end of attacks on our Constitutional rights. Take that to the bank. That's why they continue to trample our rights. All we can do is write letters and pray for results.

Also: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under
absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

It's all plain as day according to out founding fathers.

gp911, where I have mentioned "armed imsurrection" (?)

You didn't but somebody with a big set ought to. Not me though, I am high road and never think of such silly things.

Robert
January 15, 2013, 10:00 PM
You didn't but somebody with a big set ought to.
And again, not on THR. Feel free to do that on a different board but the owner and the staff have made the decision that that is not the direction we want to take.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 10:01 PM
with an action plan that is considered by some to be taboo?

How many folks do you know that get in the face, and ask a direct question, of politicians? Like we did 237 years ago? Demand an answer?

What happened today in NY.......well, it's the way slaves are made.

Is it not?

LemmyCaution
January 15, 2013, 10:01 PM
gp911, where I have mentioned "armed imsurrection" (?)

When you're talking about 'an action plan that some would consider taboo,' it's not a real stretch to read between the lines. At least you have the good sense to backpedal now. Better if you'd been able to control yourself in the first place.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 10:09 PM
When you're talking about 'an action plan that some would consider taboo,' it's not a real stretch to read between the lines. At least you have the good sense to backpedal now. Better if you'd been able to control yourself in the first place.

You can read between any lines you like. And for the record, on my father's grave, I'm not backpedaling.

Is it not "taboo" for a "commoner" to argue face to face with a Senator in this day and age? A good old fashion Donnybrook. Find me someone you personally know who has....

SuperNaut
January 15, 2013, 10:14 PM
Not even close to the truth. And I resent you implying so.

I am talking about face to face discussion. Letters written in ink. Phone calls.
Going to the state capitals on the 19th.

Making politicians accountable.
Ohhhhhhh riiiiiiiiiiight, not activism, activism.:rolleyes:

hogshead
January 15, 2013, 10:15 PM
Wow lets just give up our guns and take up golf.Thats more High Road anyways.

LemmyCaution
January 15, 2013, 10:20 PM
You can read between any lines you like. And for the record, on my father's grave, I'm not backpedaling.

Is it not "taboo" for a "commoner" to argue face to face with a Senator in this day and age? A good old fashion Donnybrook. Find me someone you personally know who has....

In what sense is it taboo on THR to discuss civilly confronting one's elected representatives in person?

Look, you've obviously got face to save here, so we'll drop it. But you know what you meant, and everyone else knows what you meant.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 10:29 PM
But you know what you meant, and everyone else knows what you meant.

I know what I meant, and you think you know what I meant. Period.

BTW, what do your sig lines mean?

hogshead
January 15, 2013, 10:33 PM
Absolutly nothing wow.

SuperNaut
January 15, 2013, 10:37 PM
http://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdqZIj_N2NqWl2umhEUy2TFAxOn489WM_4aYN2GEezh2ahfwEJ

dom1104
January 15, 2013, 10:46 PM
Not even close to the truth. And I resent you implying so.

I am talking about face to face discussion. Letters written in ink. Phone calls.
Going to the state capitals on the 19th.

Making politicians accountable.
Just so you know, nice backpedal, you arent fooling anyone, and we ALL knew what you meant.

Ohio Gun Guy
January 15, 2013, 10:50 PM
I would like to remind those that we argued with prior to the election that Given the Chance, this would occur.... I really hope those of you that pulled the lever for the big O are thinking to yourselves, what did I do. I went back and read some threads from October and November and it's kind of telling.


Coincidentally, I got my first paycheck of the new year, new TAX rates. Yeah, those went up too. There is pretty much Everything thought could occur in a second term, that is now occurring; we just need a few supreme court justics to retire and let him replace those. "But he talked so nice and said he wouldnt." Believe us now?

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 10:53 PM
Hey dom1104, what did I mean?

Larry Ashcraft
January 15, 2013, 10:55 PM
This is the new THR
Pretty presumptuous of you, don't you think? With almost 14,000 active members and over ten years of our work, you get to decide where we are going?
When do we have a real discussion about our rights being trampled on, with an action plan that is considered by some to be taboo?
Do you read any of the threads in GGD or Activism?

Art Eatman
January 15, 2013, 11:28 PM
This website began when TheFiringLine.com shut down for a while. Many of us moderate there as well as here. So, since back in 1998 we've been telling members to contact elected folks at all levels. Through the years, via snail mail, FAXes, phone calls and emails.

We've advised working in election and re-election campaigns. Talking to friends and neighbors, to get out the vote by people who believe as we do. All the scut work that our opponents seem to be able to find many helpers in their efforts: Where were you?

That's been going on, now, for fourteen years, +/-. What more are we supposed to do? Our only stipulation is that all suggestions must be legal and non-violent in the furtherance of RKBA.

You don't like a law? Hire an attorney and go to court, or send money to the lobbying organizations who are even now preparing to do so as soon as is feasible. NRA, GOA, CCRKBA, 2AF, JPFO--and the many state organizations. You are a member of one or more, aren't you? Aren't you?

But if all you have been doing is ranting on the Internet, you really don't have anything to say that's worth listening to. If all you're doing now is ranting on the Internet, you don't have anything to say that's worth listening to. "Quit wasting my bandwidth!"

Sincerity, repetition and db level do not create truth.

gp911
January 15, 2013, 11:40 PM
Impureclient, I get your point & that's why I listed all those examples. I saw complaints that THR isn't going far enough in the conversation about activism so I noted more extreme examples only to see the OP saying we don't talk enough about showing up in person to talk to elected officials. Huh? That's taboo here? I haven't seen that conversation getting stifled by the moderators at all, so I bowed out as this thread doesn't make sense to me now.

wow6599
January 15, 2013, 11:48 PM
gp911, I can't (won't) go any further in to my thought process. What I am (was) trying to convey isn't getting across like I Thought it would. I have sent PM's to Larry and Art regarding my OP. I'm done trying to explain what tree I was barking up.

Frank Ettin
January 15, 2013, 11:51 PM
...I'm done trying to explain what tree I was barking up.Great, let's call this one done.

hso
January 16, 2013, 12:53 AM
go to their state capitals and demand answers.

Then read through Activism and Activism Discussion and you'll see a couple of folks have done just that. A buddy of mine did here, but there really wasn't any point since our Congressional contingent have all come down clearly on our side and our Governor had done the same when the first suggestion of an AWB hit the news.

Yes, the most effective thing that can be done is to go to the office of your elected officials and tell them face to face that you've spent your time and money to come and give them your expectations and that you'll spend much more of your time and money to ensure that expectation is carried through with in their voting. Thank them for their dedication to representing YOU, but tell them you'll be attentively watching their participation in Congress and waiting for them to vote YES to X and NO to Y.

If you enjoyed reading about "This is the new THR" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!