A little rant at people telling individuals to move out of NY State


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ol' scratch
January 16, 2013, 09:46 AM
Listen. We need to stop telling people to move out of states due to restrictive gun laws. I watched it with California and now I see it with New York. We need to encourage these folks to keep fighting the laws that violate their rights. Someone who tells someone from another state to just move out, really doesn't have a clue. We should encourage these people to stand up and passively resist. They should also let their feet do the walking. If we keep encouraging individuals to run out of states that have stupid laws, we bring the fight right to our door.

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kwguy
January 16, 2013, 09:52 AM
I totally sympathize. It's too bad NY is so idiotic with those laws. Unfortunately, not everyone can just pack up and move that easily, and they have to sit there and suffer through state fascism.

Ric
January 16, 2013, 03:15 PM
I think the businesses need to speak by moving out
Remington needs to move to another state that doesn't think they are evil
Les Baer moved from Illinois after some of the laws became foolish.

If I had millions of dollars invested in my business and paid millions in taxes to the people who are calling me out, I would consider moving

Certaindeaf
January 16, 2013, 03:28 PM
Even rats abandon a sinking rathole.

ApacheCoTodd
January 16, 2013, 04:11 PM
Yeah? Well I'm one of those who would suggest it, having lived the nightmare in California from a firearms profession point of view.

I dealt with the California Department of (in)Justice far too many times in relation to state laws there and got caught between DOJ aggression and local jurisdictions's confusion too many times to count after their absurd AWB passed.

Here's my take. If these types of states continue to head in these directions then after exposing the futility of the ballot box, one of the best courses of action is to take one's self, resources, abilities, capabilities and potential for labor/intellectual/business support to a more friendly state and reward them for their support of hard working and freedom minded individuals.

Leave, leave now. Take your personal contributions to a rotting state with you. It is not going to get better there in anyone's current lifetime. Just look to California, the tougher things get due to short sighted-feel good-us against them legislation, the harder they make it on the remaining folk.

OpelBlitz
January 16, 2013, 04:13 PM
The reality of it all is there's only so much fighting one can do. I've been wanting to leave my state for some time now, but it is because of more than the anti-gun craziness.

Certaindeaf
January 16, 2013, 04:20 PM
I bet you guys roll your eyeballs when you hear "what are you going to do when they come for your guns?".. tumbleweeds

swalton1943
January 16, 2013, 04:24 PM
point we're missing; universal bg check on ALL GUN SALES!!!!!

OpelBlitz
January 16, 2013, 04:26 PM
Certaindeaf, what guns...?

Certaindeaf
January 16, 2013, 04:29 PM
badabingo

OpelBlitz
January 16, 2013, 04:30 PM
Yup. :D

Grassman
January 16, 2013, 04:33 PM
I have no clue why Remington is still there. Just think of the tax dollars Remington has created for New York, only to only be used against itself.

mbt2001
January 16, 2013, 04:34 PM
+100 to the OP...

My grandfather, my great grandfather, etc... are buried here in Texas. I am not going anywhere. I would feel the same if I lived in NYstate and the same was true.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 04:37 PM
Listen. We need to stop telling people to move out of states due to restrictive gun laws. I watched it with California and now I see it with New York. We need to encourage these folks to keep fighting the laws that violate their rights. Someone who tells someone from another state to just move out, really doesn't have a clue. We should encourage these people to stand up and passively resist. They should also let their feet do the walking. If we keep encouraging individuals to run out of states that have stupid laws, we bring the fight right to our door.
NY has been living with the Sullivan Act since 1911, so what makes you think that this law will finally prod NYers to stand up and resist rather than just wimper and swallow as they always have?

AZ
January 16, 2013, 04:43 PM
It is certainly commendable to stay and fight the law but the fact remains that New York is a liberal haven. Unless NYC breaks off and becomes its own state (god forbid) there is no amount of influence that will bring NY back to reason. Those suggesting others move are simply being pragmatic. If you value your privacy don't live in London and if you value your gun rights don't live in New York. There isn't much one can do short of passing a national law combating state laws (and that isn't exactly the direction we are headed in).

WVleo
January 16, 2013, 04:44 PM
Hi came back to Buffalo area ( born and raised in Lancaster, Ny ) after a divorce to start over and I'm out of here for good April 1st 2013. So Glad My home in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia did not sell and I didn't find one in WNy I wanted to buy while looking as I won't get stuck living here or for that matter won't come back until the present mindset of libtard politicians are out of office ( never happen, one looses or retires His retartded son takes over ). the cost of living here is alot more than most other states and there really is not anything more to offer but snow, keep it, Im out of here, this state is and always will be a joke ..........WVleo

Grassman
January 16, 2013, 04:53 PM
I don't begrudge anyone who leaves their home state if they feel that the elected officials are oppressive. Good for you if you have the means to do it, a lot don't.

Hunterdad
January 16, 2013, 05:04 PM
I'd love to leave...trust me. I have a decent job with good benefits, 3 kids and a wife. I just can't see me picking up my family and run out of state. I don't want to leave my extended family and don't want my kids growing up without their family.

So, I'm going to Albany this weekend to protest. I will not lay down and let personal agenda strip me of my rights. I doubt going to Albany will make a difference, but I'm going to try like hell.

SigSour
January 16, 2013, 05:17 PM
I guess it would take a few things to make one move away from their home state. The firearm aspect was great but I moved from NYC more because of the people. I told my wife that I'd never walked outside and NOT seen people until I was in my twenties and she laughed.. then she realized I wasn't joking.

Colorado offered me some breathing room and space. Now we're contemplating a move to my wife's home state of GA. - we've been there a few times and looked into a few farms/acreage properties. 10+ acres for a city boy who grew up in a 900 sq ft 3 bedroom apartment with 4 siblings and parents??? Hells yea! I might just get lost going to the mailbox!

Either way it would serve several purposes. Being closer to family (mine are still in NY), having some peace and quiet.. oh yea, being able to target practice on my own property :) * I'd say if the pluses are more than the minuses then by all means.. get to movin'!

we are not amused
January 16, 2013, 07:17 PM
I tend to agree, that running is not going to solve the problem. You can't win if you don't fight.
And the fight is winnable, even if you have to go underground and fight a guerrilla war.

jmorris
January 16, 2013, 07:23 PM
I am with the OP. You voted them in, enjoy what you made. Please don't come to my State and make it like yours.

I also support California's "exit tax". Again you voted for people who created the bankrupt State, you should stay and enjoy the spoils of victory or take a huge hit so you don't repeat your foolishness at the next place you move to.

berettaprofessor
January 16, 2013, 07:26 PM
I have no clue why Remington is still there

Think about it a little harder. It may be well and good for owners to move a company for a principle....if it costs them money to move, that's their choice. But the bigger issue is that if a gun/ammo/etc manufacturer moves, the workers either lose jobs or they have to move away, usually away from family and friends to follow their job. Conscientious owners and business managers won't often do that to their employees unless there are substantial business advantages. Being mad at the State is not a substantial business advantage.

Hunterdad
January 16, 2013, 07:27 PM
Yeah, jmorris because I voted for these morons. Thanks for your support.

BHP FAN
January 16, 2013, 07:28 PM
I'd leave if I could. I'm 54, heavily mortgaged, starting a new job, I'm with a California girl who doesn't want to leave as a partner...of 33 years. just not in the cards, for now.Oh, and the folks I voted for?...didn't win.

Hunterdad
January 16, 2013, 07:32 PM
I am so sick of fellow gun owners saying that we voted these people in and now we get to deal with it.

Do you think for one damn second that any sane gun owner voted for these morons? If you don't support all gun owners, than you're just as bad as the shotgun owner that thinks he has nothing to worry about. It's you that make it even worse than it already is. Thanks for the support.

Certaindeaf
January 16, 2013, 07:38 PM
I am with the OP. You voted them in, enjoy what you made. Please don't come to my State and make it like yours.

I also support California's "exit tax". Again you voted for people who created the bankrupt State, you should stay and enjoy the spoils of victory or take a huge hit so you don't repeat your foolishness at the next place you move to.
Very good point.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 07:44 PM
I am so sick of fellow gun owners saying that we voted these people in and now we get to deal with it.

Do you think for one damn second that any sane gun owner voted for these morons? If you don't support all gun owners, than you're just as bad as the shotgun owner that thinks he has nothing to worry about. It's you that make it even worse than it already is. Thanks for the support.
Sorry pal, but yes, a great many allegedly sane gun owners voted for these morons, not to mention standing by and cheerleading one of those morons as he lead us into wars of convenience, endless war on a noun, promised to "protect us" in exchange for us giving up many of our basic civil liberties, creating that monstrosity called DHS, etc, etc, etc. Now the next moron has taken his cue and expanded the power of government even more while at the same time using our "security" as an excuse to have us give away even more of our rights...or at least look the other way and not make a fuss. But hey, gun owners didn't mind...as long as they could register for permission to carry their concealed firearms, no worries, let government go out of control, it's just the nasty mooslims that have to worry about it, ya know.

It wasn't till this latest moron resurrected this gun control crap that gun owners woke up and found their huevos again. Let's call a spade a spade here...we have GIVEN away our rights more than anyone has seized them.

PavePusher
January 16, 2013, 07:58 PM
Think about it a little harder. It may be well and good for owners to move a company for a principle....if it costs them money to move, that's their choice. But the bigger issue is that if a gun/ammo/etc manufacturer moves, the workers either lose jobs or they have to move away, usually away from family and friends to follow their job. Conscientious owners and business managers won't often do that to their employees unless there are substantial business advantages. Being mad at the State is not a substantial business advantage.
Last I heard, Remington was fairly profitable. They could gain a lot of good will, dedicated customers, and more free advertising than they could ever wish for by moving out, stating why and, like the military, pay for moving the workers and their families.

I'd never buy another brand of gun again, as long as I lived, assuming they made the style/caliber I needed.

gym
January 16, 2013, 08:18 PM
Having lived there for 46 years of my life, I can assure you that you won't see any sugnificant changes in the gun laws in New York City, in your lifetime. It's run by a machine that is a wealthy, elitest, politically orientaed, animal that you will not change.
I dated a city council woman and have been to Gracie Mansion and several of these fund raisers, and those folks are wound so tight that they have a hard time going to the bathroom.
The police are taught that no civilian should have a gun period. I had a NYC carry, and still have the old paper expired license in my gun safe. You could never imagine what it took to get and keep that sucker for 22 years.
If you really think that you can effect change there in this climate, you are kidding yourself.
You would have to replace every person in office, and still have the majority of the people who live there against the idea, because it has been drummed into their heads their whole life.
In NYC, people think only cops and gangsters have guns,period, good luck trying to change that.
There are no ranges or gun stores and no exposure to shooting sports, I couldn't even get my shotgun and rifle out when my 92 yr old mother decided to join us in FL. I had to have my cousin drive it out to Nassau county for an ffl to ship it out.
dream on, it's never going to happen. It's the price you pay for living there, I decided I couldn't afford to wait forever when I sold my business, I just timed it so I could get out and close the company right before leaving.
The mountain is not coming to Mohammod in this case, as in a few other similar cities and states. That's just the way it is. Why waste your time ?

Rembrandt
January 16, 2013, 08:29 PM
New Yorkers have tried to have it both ways for decades.....I believe they refer to it as "moderation". They have compromised away what their forefathers fought and died for. They have tried to foist their moderate beliefs on the rest of the nation. Maybe they should stay and fight for the rights and freedoms they squandered away.

Cosmoline
January 16, 2013, 08:29 PM
If it was a state worth living in I could see staying and fighting, but NY? It's been a lost cause since the Sullivan Act. It's barely even part of the country.

I admire those who are staying and fighting, but I have no illusions about their chances of victory. And in the mean time they're paying state taxes to support this nonsense. It's better IMHO for all the gun owners to leave en masse and take their tax payments elsewhere. Making NY look more and more like Detroit is a winning plan in the end. It means discrediting not only the policies of the mobsters running the place but giving them less influence nationally. The whole state needs to be taken down a few pegs. Or just given back to the Dutch.

jhb
January 16, 2013, 08:33 PM
Id never leave my home either, because of some politicans bad ideas....course my homeland is florida. I will die here, and I would expect no less of my countrymen and women in ny state. Fight and while victory is likely never gonna happen....making these politicians lives harder dealing with protests, email, letters, phone calls etc.....is worth the effort, imho.

Plus at what point do we run out of states to run to?

For those who have the means and want...the south is more than happy to have y'all come on down.

Highland Ranger
January 16, 2013, 08:39 PM
Born in NY but moved for work reasons.

Not sure what the answer here is but its not give it back to the Dutch.

For on thing, without states like NY and NJ, a lot of southern states would be hat in hand looking for $$$$$. All these big states are net exporters of tax dollars.

The gun situation is sad, and if life permits at somepoint I'll need to evacuate, and maybe take the flag with me.

But I feel for those we are leaving behind.

rdhood
January 16, 2013, 08:43 PM
I am with the OP. You voted them in, enjoy what you made. Please don't come to my State and make it like yours.

I also support California's "exit tax". Again you voted for people who created the bankrupt State, you should stay and enjoy the spoils of victory or take a huge hit so you don't repeat your foolishness at the next place you move to.

Time to put on my hip waders, the stuff is getting deep. Even in states like CA and NY, a significant number of people did NOT vote their reps in. Nice of you to tar the whole state for the actions of the majority.

wow6599
January 16, 2013, 08:47 PM
Let's see...... Cuomo got a 7rd mag limit. Kimber is located in Yonkers, NY.

A 1911's "standard" magazine is 7rds....... I wonder?

Nah.

rdhood
January 16, 2013, 08:47 PM
For on thing, without states like NY and NJ, a lot of southern states would be hat in hand looking for $$$$$. All these big states are net exporters of tax dollars.

I've heard that one before... and its a bogus argument. Those southern states are full of poor people... of all races. When states like NY and NJ vote MORE... more welfare, more free phones, more section 8 support, more earned income tax credit, more Pell grants, etc, etc, etc, what they are doing is is voting MORE money for those states with a larger poor population. Don't blame southern states for receiving something that NY and NJ and CA voted in. If you don't like the financial outcome of what you have done... stop patronizing the Democratic party.

sean326
January 16, 2013, 08:50 PM
I am so sick of fellow gun owners saying that we voted these people in and now we get to deal with it.

Do you think for one damn second that any sane gun owner voted for these morons? If you don't support all gun owners, than you're just as bad as the shotgun owner that thinks he has nothing to worry about. It's you that make it even worse than it already is. Thanks for the support.
I've got gun owning friends and three gun owning brothers who voted for Obama citing the fact that he hadn't suggested any gun control yet so all those fears and talk was just irrational paranoia.

honestly if every person in NY or even the country who owned a gun and those who may not but value civil rights and freedom voted based on RTKBA issues these guys could never get elected.

Hunterdad
January 16, 2013, 08:55 PM
Sorry pal, but yes, a great many allegedly sane gun owners voted for these morons, not to mention standing by and cheerleading one of those morons as he lead us into wars of convenience, endless war on a noun, promised to "protect us" in exchange for us giving up many of our basic civil liberties, creating that monstrosity called DHS, etc, etc, etc.

#1. I'm not your pal

#2. You are the worst type of gun owner.

larryh1108
January 16, 2013, 09:02 PM
It's sad that a single city can rule a state, especially one as vast as New York state.

There should be a law/rule/provision that states that if a major metropolitan(s) has more than 50% or the state's population, then that metropolitan has separate rights (almost like being a separate state). Meaning, that an area that comprises 10% or less of the land mass can't exert control over the entire state.

NYS has NYC
IL has Chicago
CA has LA/SF/SD

Those are the 3 largest metropolitans and is it a coincidence that those 3 states have gun laws that trample on our rights? It's not right to have one city rule a state's rights when (as pointed out) the urban dwellers don't hunt, shoot or have anything to do with firearms in general.

Maybe there is a cop within a mile in NYC or Chicago (doubtful) but that's not the case in rural America. In a major city help may be minutes away and in rural areas the wait can be so long that you can forget about it being there when it's needed. There is such a different view of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in an urban area than a rural area that it is not fair for one group to punish another because of a different lifestyle.

Don't laugh. This divide over the "gun culture" can lead to another civil war (loosely worded). The rift is huge and both sides feel they are in the right. If you don't like the laws of a metropolitan area, you can move to the "boonies" while not leaving friends and family behind like moving to a different state. Let the urban dwellers keep their triple latte frappacinos(sp) and their trendy apartments with a security door and let the rural people have their dogs and guns to watch over them. It is not fair that the urban dwellers control the rights of the rural dwellers yet that is exactly what is happening. We need to fix this. Let the urban people's votes control their little corner of the state only and let the rest of us live life like it was originally written. If you want to have the right to bear arms, move out of the cities. If you think guns are the root of all evil, move into the city. Win/win. How do we make this happen?

gym
January 16, 2013, 09:13 PM
Larry it happened because people started to move out of the city in the late 70's as the next wave of immigrants came through NY.
Just like the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc.
But the difference this time was that they did not choose to learn the language and become Americans, but instead, started to section off areas of NY to settle and bring their friends and family, while keeping all of their customs and speaking their own language, bassically.
The English speaking folks just said "the heck with this" and started moving out of Dodge.
So the Russians took a piece of Bklyn, the Chineese took Flushing Queens, Then the indians took parts of Queens etc etc, They didn't want to blend in and be Americans, they just wanted to live here.
Now this has nothing to do with guns so I will stop here, but that's why you don't have a Base of folks that are pro gun, most of them were probablly on the recieving end of one when they left wherever they came from.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 09:15 PM
#1. I'm not your pal

#2. You are the worst type of gun owner.

Why, because I point out how we have been our own worst enemies? You, and we, get the government we deserve.

Denial isn't going to protect your rights, pal.

Hunterdad
January 16, 2013, 09:20 PM
Oh, now it's "we"? In that case, carry on.

larryh1108
January 16, 2013, 09:20 PM
All the more reason, gym, why we need to make a distinction between huge cities and rural America. The reason of being anti-gun doesn't really matter because there is a large part of the population that is, for whatever reason. Instead of stripping the rights of everybody, let them live in their own squalor. Urban blight is for real. Generation after generation of people who never ventured outside the city and know nothing of the rest of the country. They only know what they've been accustomed to and if they wish to live in a non-gun society, give it to them. Allow the rest of the people who choose otherwise the ability to live outside the boundaries of this madness to pursue their given rights. Taking away the rights of everybody to appease a segment of the population is fundamentally wrong yet many states already do that... and those states have huge metropolitan areas running the whole state. This has to be fixed.

RetiredUSNChief
January 16, 2013, 09:45 PM
The fact is that not everybody in NY feels they can afford to stay...just as not everybody feels they can afford to move.

That decision, like it or not, is based on personal needs and desires, in balance with their ideals. Sure, in an ideal society everybody would stand up for their rights and beliefs, fighting to the bitter end all the time. But this ISN'T an ideal society and will never be.

In fact, any time someone comes along and tries to create an "ideal society" you end up with losses of freedoms along with an increase in oppression.

Sound familiar? Look at history. LBJ and The Great Society. Prohibition. The Civil War. Even the founding of our own nation.

On the one hand an ideal society would have no need for firearms in the first place.

On the other hand an ideal society would not restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Two different "ideal" visions.


We like to blame "government" for our woes. Well, in real life, there IS no single entity by the name "Government". Government, even in the most oppressive nations in history, is an organization composed of many people. Like it or not, all governments are ultimately supported by their populations, whether they are forced/intimidated into that or not. And all governments succeed or fail in history because of their populations, as well.

Some take a step closer to reality and start naming smaller groups. Like "liberals". Again, this is a group of many people, not a single person. And, like nearly all such groups, the general stereotype does not accurately reflect every individual within that group.

Yes, a single person (or small group of people) CAN affect major decisions.

But the fact remains that in places like NY these laws, which most of us here are protesting with doom-and-gloom, are in place because the PEOPLE are allowing them. Overall, enough people in NY are either encouraging/supporting them or they feel that they don't affect them personally, for whatever reason.

Every decision we make...stay or go, fight or capitulate, vote one way or another...doesn't reflect "ideal" choices.

Heck, how many of us voted G.W. Bush into office? It wasn't a Democrat that signed the Patriot Act into law. What I mean by this statement is that "Conservatives" and Republicans" aren't necessarily the "ideal answer" either. "Liberals" and Democrats aren't the only people we have to watch for. We make a lot of voting decisions not because our choices are ideal...but because they are, quite honestly, the lesser of two evils.

Deanimator
January 16, 2013, 09:53 PM
We need to stop telling people to move out of states due to restrictive gun laws.
Yeah, and Einstein should have stayed in Germany to "fix" things...

we are not amused
January 17, 2013, 11:53 PM
Texas likes you!

The Attorney General of Texas invited New Yorkers to move to Texas and bring their guns and money with them, as Texas would let them keep both!:evil:

Cesiumsponge
January 18, 2013, 12:20 AM
So, who was telling gun owners to move out of the USA when the 1994 AWB passed? Did we deserve the 1968 GCA or the 1934 NFA? Keeping with the, "you voted them in, enjoy what you made" theme of blaming residents for crappy gun laws from maneuvering political scumbags, who do we blame for crappy federal gun laws? Because we're all in that same boat and we've been living with these federal laws for almost a century.

oneounceload
January 18, 2013, 12:26 AM
Let's understand something - it is NYC and Long Island that are the problem - upstate NY is fairly conservative for the most part
the same for California - get out of LA and the Bay area and the folks are nice, normal, and somewhat more conservative on certain issues
Mass, South FL, Illinois and Chicago, etc......

Many are late into careers and not giving up pensions and retirements over this one issue - they'll grit their teeth, count the days, do what they can while still there - give 'em a break

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