List of the 23 EO's


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SharpsDressedMan
January 16, 2013, 12:56 PM
Man is it tedious to listen to guys. I'm just sitting here on the couch, and I ache all over. I think they told everyone to wear a dark blue suit. Is that supposed to have some psyco-social impact on the viewer?

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SpazC
January 16, 2013, 01:20 PM
Theses are not exact wording but the general idea:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

rjrivero
January 16, 2013, 01:25 PM
Where did you find this? Where can we find the exact wording of the 23 executive orders?

Big Boy
January 16, 2013, 01:26 PM
Very last two pages here

LINK: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/16/us/politics/16white-house-gun-proposals-documents.html?smid=tw-nytimes

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 16, 2013, 01:26 PM
You should be able to see them here when they are published:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/executive-orders

The list above was part of a press office release.

SpazC
January 16, 2013, 01:31 PM
Here's the first source I got it from:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/01/16/read_president_obama_s_new_proposed_executive_orders_and_legislation_on.html

SpazC
January 16, 2013, 01:32 PM
I Actually enjoyed the "oh crap we don't have an ATF director" EO on #11

TennJed
January 16, 2013, 01:33 PM
1-4 really bother me. They seem way to vague and leave the door open for misuse

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

Inebriated
January 16, 2013, 01:33 PM
I'm just scanning that list, and I'll be honest, I've been up since 4 AM and am sleepy, but none of that sounds terribly, well... terrible. Of course, as I said, I skimmed. Will review later.

rjrivero
January 16, 2013, 01:34 PM
I like #18. That's all I'm prepared to say about them.

Dr_B
January 16, 2013, 01:34 PM
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

#7: The NRA has been doing that for years.

#12: Every law enforcement agency I am familiar with already has this training, as do the first responders they work with. Schools already have useless active shooter policies that generally say "hide and hope for the best." What training is there to do? Best practices for hiding?

Silent Bob
January 16, 2013, 01:36 PM
They will introduce targets of active shooters for children to practice throwing thier cell phones at.

G21NE
January 16, 2013, 01:37 PM
1-4 really bother me. They seem way to vague and leave the door open for misuse
So I guess privacy (HIPA or HIIPA or whatever) is not part of Obamacare???

longknife12
January 16, 2013, 01:39 PM
Mental health.......ever consider congress????????????

Wasn't the AG resposible for Gun Runner?
Dan
:confused:

Skribs
January 16, 2013, 01:41 PM
HIPPA, G21.

Health...IPPA.

I like #17 (my problem with the same law in NY was that it only applied to guns, this says they want to apply to threats of violence, which fits my personal opinion that we should like at violence on the whole) and #19 (focuses on response planning for places where we'd want a response plan).

I will not agree with most of these, seeing as how they run on the idea that background checks stop crime.

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 16, 2013, 01:48 PM
HIPPA, G21.

Health...IPPA.
HIPAA, Skribs.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

SidRon
January 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
#18 is amusing. I wonder if the antigun crowd is going to erupt in anger aftert they realize Obama wants to provide incentives for schools to have police officers in them.

Airbrush Artist
January 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
Executive orders are FUZZY just like His Math..

Batty67
January 16, 2013, 01:51 PM
I'm just scanning that list, and I'll be honest, I've been up since 4 AM and am sleepy, but none of that sounds terribly, well... terrible. Of course, as I said, I skimmed. Will review later.
I agree. Waiting for other shoe to fall...

IdahoSkies
January 16, 2013, 01:51 PM
I was worried that he issue something about the importation of firearms or firearm parts (ala, keeping out oversees part kits, milsurp, etc), as that has been an issue before.

I am worried about

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies

as this seems to me it will lead us to "biometric" weapons as well as that microstamping crap which does not work.

I am also seriously concerned with

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

as one of the reasons the debate is an emotion vs. facts debate is the research don by Dr. Lott. I know enough about statistics that the question is as important as the answer and I am seriously concerned with how, what, and to whom the questions will be asked by any CDC sponsored study. Bad questions result in bad data, and if we make policy based on bad data, we get bad policy. I acknowledge that the more quality data we have the better, but the CDC has never been politics free (nor have firearms), so I am apprehensive of the results.

Airbrush Artist
January 16, 2013, 01:53 PM
and he DEPUTIZES DOCTORS

Coop45
January 16, 2013, 01:54 PM
EO can't change laws.

Ryanxia
January 16, 2013, 01:56 PM
I wonder if #4 could be used to widen/add to the categories that prohibit an individual from purchasing a firearm?

Rob G
January 16, 2013, 01:57 PM
Most of these are just useless words that don't really help or hinder anything.

However a few caught my eye.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Sorry, EO's can't change existing law like that. If the ACA says doctor's can't, then doctor's can't.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system

HIPAA is a sacred cow in the medical industry and shouldn't be messed with. It already provides for medical personnel to report valid threats to Law Enforcement. Anything beyond that could harm the ability of the medical community to diagnose and treat patients. Obama can order it if he wants, and it may even pass muster, but a great many medical professionals will ignore it on principle.

JustinJ
January 16, 2013, 01:59 PM
and he DEPUTIZES DOCTORS

What are you talking about?

morcey2
January 16, 2013, 02:01 PM
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Sorry, EO's can't change existing law like that. If the ACA says doctor's can't, then doctor's can't.



I believe that the wording in the act was that they weren't allowed to collect/store/database data pertaining to firearms possession or ownership, but they could ask about it.

Matt

Skribs
January 16, 2013, 02:02 PM
Jorg, I should have remembered that, because when I worked at a hospital a few years ago I had to take the training about 6 times in the course of a month (the guy in charge of the training kept telling us we went to the wrong training website but never told us what the right one was). I got Health right ;)

mrvco
January 16, 2013, 02:05 PM
I think you'll start seeing the following when seeing any sort of healthcare professional, applying for insurance, coverage or whatever....

Personal History (Please mark yes / no):

Have you consumed more than 2 alcoholic drinks in a day during the last year? _____
Do you smoke cigarettes or other tobacco products? - _____
Have you used illicit drugs (including marijuana) within the last 10 years? _____
Have you been arrested for or convicted of a felony in the last 10 years? - _____
Do you or anyone living in your household own or have access to a firearm? - ____

Aceoky
January 16, 2013, 02:08 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...violence-plan/

The following is a list, provided by the White House, of executive actions President Obama plans to take to address gun violence.
1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

Pointshoot
January 16, 2013, 02:14 PM
The original post said this isnt the exact wording and that its from a second hand source (NY Times). The devil is in the details. We'll have to see and digest the exact wording when its public. And later we'll see how that wording is carried out at the agency level. If your rights are taken away administratively, and the bureaucracy and costs make it impossible for you to personally restore them - they have been taken from you. - - - Beyond that, there's not much to say yet.

But one word of caution - don't relax your guard if 'it doesnt seem so bad'. A good strategy is to make your opponent fear the worst - and then he's relieved, when it doesnt happen all at once or in the manner he originally feared. Always keep in mind their final objective.

The 2A can be slowly strangled, rather than quickly lynched.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 16, 2013, 02:14 PM
Vetetans medical history will be violated under these measures. Micro stamping is coming your way.

Is this a seminal moment many have spoken about.. Yes it is as we move from the model of government that has served us for 200 plus years to one where the President rules through edict.

ChromDome
January 16, 2013, 02:33 PM
Vetetans medical history will be violated under these measures. Micro stamping is coming your way.

Is this a seminal moment many have spoken about.. Yes it is as we move from the model of government that has served us for 200 plus years to one where the President rules through edict.
What are you talking about.

Some people need to step back and take a deep breath.

NOTHING changed today.

JFtheGR8
January 16, 2013, 02:59 PM
Quote:

Some people need to step back and take a deep breath.

NOTHING changed today.

We got the lube today, the shaft is yet to come. Stay vigilant. Now is not the time to relax.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

Dr_B
January 16, 2013, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Sorry, EO's can't change existing law like that. If the ACA says doctor's can't, then doctor's can't.
I believe that the wording in the act was that they weren't allowed to collect/store/database data pertaining to firearms possession or ownership, but they could ask about it.

Matt

If our doctors ask about our guns, we are not required to answer. You are also within your rights to simply lie and say you don't own guns.

ChromDome
January 16, 2013, 03:05 PM
The only way the shaft comes is if Congress passes it, which is very unlikely.

IF Obama could have done anything more via EO don't you think he would have done it today? He gains nothing by waiting for the future.

Isaac-1
January 16, 2013, 03:08 PM
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Have to wonder if this means use bottomless federal funds to run anti gun PSA's?

AJumbo
January 16, 2013, 03:20 PM
I agree that nothing really changed today, EOs can't change existing laws, etc; the problem is that this POTUS has the support of a lot of people, inside gov't and out, that don't believe he would ever push his agenda through extra-legal (unconstututional) means. Others will be happy to delude themselves that his word IS law, which would suit him just fine.

Too many of our fellow Americans would accept a dictator as long as it means their tax-funded benefits are secure. They are as dangerous to out nation as George Soros, the Congressional left, and our man-child POTUS, and they see these 23 actions as "progress in the name of our safety."

Pointshoot
January 16, 2013, 03:21 PM
ChromDome: "The only way the shaft comes is if Congress passes it, which is very unlikely.

IF Obama could have done anything more via EO don't you think he would have done it today? He gains nothing by waiting for the future."

This is an EO made to agencies, not legislation. There was nothing to 'pass' today.

However, it isnt unheard of for this and other presidents to send out directives to the agency level and use administrative law & procedures to meet their goals. In such manner, your opponets relax and the issue is quieted till the next opportunity to gain more presents itself.

Its a rather effective strategy, the slow and steady approach.

T Slothrop
January 16, 2013, 03:25 PM
I think #8 and especially #15 are the "gotchas" that could potentially lead to onerous restrictions (microstamping? biometric locks?), but the rest are - well just political window dressing...

Which leads me to believe that there is some kind of "Congressional Surprise" coming on a mag/AW ban.

Dr_B
January 16, 2013, 03:33 PM
Is that supposed to have some psyco-social impact on the viewer?

I'm sure every aspect of that news conference was planned. Obviously the children and parents were there for the psychological impact. The blue suits? I am not sure. But you can bet they examined every aspect of the presentation and we paid for it. I'll bet they had top men on it.

Top. Men.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 03:34 PM
I believe that the wording in the act was that they weren't allowed to collect/store/database data pertaining to firearms possession or ownership, but they could ask about it.

Matt
Down the road our medical insurance rates will increase because we own firearms. Other types of insurance will follow suit. This is how they are going to get us - administratively - not by direct confrontation and confiscation.

JustinJ
January 16, 2013, 03:35 PM
Vetetans medical history will be violated under these measures. Micro stamping is coming your way.

Is this a seminal moment many have spoken about.. Yes it is as we move from the model of government that has served us for 200 plus years to one where the President rules through edict.

If you believe something has now changed I strongly suggest you do a little reading to learn about previous EO that have been issued long before Obama.

I just want to know if there will ever be a threshold reached of 'Obama end of the world predictions' proved false before the 'psychics' will finally give it a rest.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 03:35 PM
If our doctors ask about our guns, we are not required to answer. You are also within your rights to simply lie and say you don't own guns.
My stock answer is "do you?"

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 03:40 PM
ChromDome: "The only way the shaft comes is if Congress passes it, which is very unlikely.

IF Obama could have done anything more via EO don't you think he would have done it today? He gains nothing by waiting for the future."

This is an EO made to agencies, not legislation. There was nothing to 'pass' today.

However, it isnt unheard of for this and other presidents to send out directives to the agency level and use administrative law & procedures to meet their goals. In such manner, your opponets relax and the issue is quieted till the next opportunity to gain more presents itself.

Its a rather effective strategy, the slow and steady approach.
We thought it was very unlikely in 94 too. Don't underestimate the propensity of politicians to do what they feel is politically expedient.

jon_in_wv
January 16, 2013, 03:44 PM
Now the CDC can investigate the "disease" of gun ownership and cure all us sick people. Yippee.

Does any STATE have universal background checks on private sales? It would seem to me that if "everyone agrees" this is the right thing and it could actually be done LEGALLY by the states, wouldn't that already be the law in most places? Oh thats right, we need Congress to oeverstep its bounds again to help all those dumb states out.

Rob G
January 16, 2013, 03:45 PM
If our doctors ask about our guns, we are not required to answer. You are also within your rights to simply lie and say you don't own guns.My stock answer is "do you?"

My stock answer is "no." Nearly anything else could be twisted to mean "yes." I also don't think that my doctor, or my kid's pediatrician, have any write to no know this information so I don't feel bad about lying.

HoosierQ
January 16, 2013, 03:46 PM
I like #18. That's all I'm prepared to say about them.
The fact that #18 is even in there means they heard at least a minimum of what we had to say. Like I said about a month ago, this kind of crap (school shooting) doesn't happen in Israel.

481
January 16, 2013, 03:47 PM
The only way the shaft comes is if Congress passes it, which is very unlikely.

IF Obama could have done anything more via EO don't you think he would have done it today? He gains nothing by waiting for the future.

I agree- very little happened today.

Of course, now that this little piece of drama is over I am going to to go right back to doing what I've been doing- making calls and writing letters and emails to my elected officials and representatives letting them know that I will do everything I can to unseat them (besides voting against them) should they permit any abridgement/abrogation of the Second Amendment by permitting any sort of restrictive firearms legislation to pass. Time to re-double my efforts- I hope you all will do the same.

Nico Testosteros
January 16, 2013, 03:51 PM
All of this is a testament to, in this case, the virtues of a divided government. I don't like much of what the Republicans say or do but in this case I'm glad they control the House.

Maybe now once manufacturers catch up with demand, the price of ARs will drop. I don't see an AWB any time soon.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 03:56 PM
All of this is a testament to, in this case, the virtues of a divided government. I don't like much of what the Republicans say or do but in this case I'm glad they control the House.

Maybe now once manufacturers catch up with demand, the price of ARs will drop. I don't see an AWB any time soon.
Yep, this is one of those tipping point issues for a lot of independents. Had Obama started this kick before the election we'd probably have a President Romney...not that he'd be any better.

stonecutter2
January 16, 2013, 04:22 PM
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Don't get what this has to do with anything. Very weird. The ACA is what it is, it's not like this can amend it, correct?

The rest of the actions - yeah maybe it's for the better. Maybe.

Oh...and:

11. Nominate an ATF director.

LOL!

Pointshoot
January 16, 2013, 04:27 PM
I think many of us have made the same, very valid points:

Continue to be watchful. Don't relax. The 2A & Constitution are at stake.

Increase your efforts. Increase the pressure. Do your part to oppose every attack on the 2A.
Dont think 'well, that doesnt impact me' when you hear of new restrictions on fellow lawabiding
gunowners. United we stand, divided we fall.

Many new guns were sold, and many new people joined pro 2A organizations
because of all the attention on this. We need to continue to do all we can, including taking new people out shooting.

Face to face experiences with good law abiding citizen gun owners can beat the propaganda being broadcast to the people.

Remember their agenda and that they will never give up till Americans are disarmed.
(IMO, if you dont think this is the agenda leading this push - - - do some research.)

Zeke/PA
January 16, 2013, 04:27 PM
#4. " Direct the Attorney General"?
That's Eric Holder for Poop's Sake!
Nuff Said!!

stonecutter2
January 16, 2013, 04:28 PM
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

That really is pretty close to what the NRA was proposing. Interesting.

USAF_Vet
January 16, 2013, 04:33 PM
Through out his press conference, he kept saying how difficult it would be and the many challenges facing them, prepping the blame. He seemed to have a measure of inevitable defeat in his voice as he talked about congress. That's a good sign, unless its a bait and switch, which he is well m own for.

Most of the listed EO's don't sound horrible, but it remains to be seen how far he can take some of them. I think he very well knows how many guns have been purchased over the last few months, since the 2nd debate back in October. He knows what he faces with an all out ban.

anchorman
January 16, 2013, 04:50 PM
#4. " Direct the Attorney General"?
That's Eric Holder for Poop's Sake!
Nuff Said!!

He works at the pleasure of the president for the most part (some exceptions where he has independent discretionary powers, like investigating the executive branch in case of criminal activity). He follows orders, or he looses his job. it's pretty simple.

anchorman
January 16, 2013, 04:55 PM
He knows what he faces with an all out ban.

Maybe banning all guns is not actually his goal? I know it is the goal of some others, but you have to see that Obama is actually a corporate republican if you look at the historical picture. Nothing that he has done has really been very radical or different from what republicans have done and proposed in the past. He goes for pro-business, corporate remedies to problems whenever possible - it's not how I would do things, but it's what he does.

What is probably more likely is that like many people, obama didn't grow up shooting, doesn't really know much about guns, and "assault weapons" seem like a scary thing to him, and he foolishly thinks banning them will somehow make life better. Hopefully (though I doubt it) he has a few people around him who are interested in shooting and can give perspective in this debate.

dfsixstring
January 16, 2013, 04:59 PM
I would like to clarify something that others have stated: An executive order can only be directed to Federal Employees - not the general public. These are "laws" only in the sense that government employees have to abide by them. Soon, this will include all of healthcare too. We should be afraid at this point - from a, "what's coming next" stance. These 23 EOs mean little to me.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S

Texan Scott
January 16, 2013, 05:01 PM
I wasn't expecting him to do much ... but this is less than even *I* would have credited him with the cajones for. 23! Ooooh, it's an impressive number! He came off looking like a college freshman trying to turn three pages of research into a five page paper by fluffing it with two pages of wordy BS and a clear plastic binder.

Taken as a whole, pretty pathetic. The average anti should be really angry ... sadly, most are probably still mindlessly worshipping.

DammitBoy
January 16, 2013, 05:09 PM
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.


This is the biggie thus far. Expect the list of prohibited people to be greatly expanded.

Nasty
January 16, 2013, 05:12 PM
I think that in the interest of health care, it is time to press our representatives to lift the ridiculous restrictions on suppressors. Our hearing needs protection *now*.

After all, maniacs have never used suppressors in committing their crimes.

:p

Sergei Mosin
January 16, 2013, 05:18 PM
A whole lot of nothing (and lost sleep over nothing!) Here's a commentary I particularly enjoyed: http://phelps.donotremove.net/2013/01/obamas-new-executive-orders/

gbran
January 16, 2013, 05:23 PM
I'm going to guess his announced E/O, E/A's fell really short of what the anti's wanted and expected.

Silent Bob
January 16, 2013, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure how accurate this article from a "Republican insider" is and it reads more like a tabloid piece but purports that Obama was planning much more extravagant action until hit by the reality of politics:

http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/01/16/republican-insider-obama-livid-over-gun-rights-backlash/

I also have to say that I prefer pictures of Obama pouting like a little child more than I do when he is smiling.

Bubbles
January 16, 2013, 05:47 PM
LOL we just got the letter from ATF for #6. As if any FFL doesn't know how to handle a transfer. :rolleyes:

Legionnaire
January 16, 2013, 05:59 PM
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
I smiled at this one. I encourage safe and responsible gun ownership among all my friends ... and if they don't own a gun, I encourage them to buy one!

michaelbsc
January 16, 2013, 06:01 PM
So I guess privacy (HIPA or HIIPA or whatever) is not part of Obamacare???

No, HIPAA is not part of the Affordable Healthcare Act. (AHA) We may as well get used to calling it by it's name, so I'm starting even if it's a fantasy name. The Repubs have come up with their share of fantasy bills, too.

The word for word exact same list is published on WSJ. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/01/16/list-obamas-23-executive-actions-on-gun-violence/

This is almost certainly a press release list.

The list *IS* relatively benign as published, since there's no legal mumbo-jumbo there.

But it presents us with the opportunity to do exactly what I've been advocating all along. Note all the words about mental health. Our lobby needs to become seen as the one for these agencies to "get money" from Congress.

Like it or not, agencies live and die by their budgets, and they "find" things to support their benefactors. I'm not accusing them of being crooks. They aren't. They're also not unaware of where their bread gets buttered.

MB

AlexanderA
January 16, 2013, 06:04 PM
If this indeed is the list of the 23 Executive Orders, my only response is a shrug. I guess there's a reason Obama didn't itemize them in his speech. It would have put the audience to sleep. On the other hand, saying that he's signing 23 [!] EO's gives the fine impression that he's doing something. Typical pattern in this Presidency.

Bubba613
January 16, 2013, 06:05 PM
Nos 18 and 19 I could actually support. The rest of it I could care less about. There will be nothing getting through Congress. The panic should be over.

michaelbsc
January 16, 2013, 06:06 PM
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Have to wonder if this means use bottomless federal funds to run anti gun PSA's?


I suggest we get our lobbies to twist this to greatly expand the CMP. After all the framework is already in place.

michaelbsc
January 16, 2013, 06:09 PM
I think that in the interest of health care, it is time to press our representatives to lift the ridiculous restrictions on suppressors. Our hearing needs protection *now*.

After all, maniacs have never used suppressors in committing their crimes.

:p


I'll certainly get behind this one. And flash hiders, too.

REDMASTA
January 16, 2013, 06:11 PM
Could of been a lot of worse all I can say. Now we just have to rely on congress to do right thing and block any possible infringements on the 2nd ammendment...

rjrivero
January 16, 2013, 06:12 PM
LOL we just got the letter from ATF for #6. As if any FFL doesn't know how to handle a transfer.

If you read the first paragraph of that letter:

The purpose of this letter is to remind all Federal Firearms Licenses (FFL) of their ready ability to enhance public safety and assist law enforcement by encouraging and facilitating transfers of firearms between private individuals through their businesses.

Alaska444
January 16, 2013, 06:14 PM
and he DEPUTIZES DOCTORS
As a physician myself, glad I am now retired!!

Unfortunately, there are many doctors that promote gun control aggressively and will see this deputization as a mandate to personally police their patients. I am quite concerned about these provisions since Obamacare is all encompassing and connected with the electronic health record.

Patient privacy is gone with these provisions, patients who own guns are likely not going to seek any mental health care to avoid reporting this condition to NICS.

When you look at these provisions coupled with the invasion of privacy with Obamacare, they could be quite substantial when fully enacted and combined with more sure to come.

Trent
January 16, 2013, 06:23 PM
Our children's pediatrician died last year. The children visited the new pediatrician for the first time before this school year started.

The pediatrician asked my son "do you have guns in the house?"

My wife (who was in the room) turned to him and said "That's none of your damned business!"

When she told me this later, I wondered to myself if they have a check-box for that on their form.

[X] Angry parent told me to place said question where the sun don't shine.

armedandsafe
January 16, 2013, 06:40 PM
When choosing a Doctor, present an application sheet with questions about his training, history and speciality. Include the "Do you own one or more guns?" :evil:

Pops

Swing
January 16, 2013, 06:42 PM
[X] Angry parent told me to place said question where the sun don't shine.

LOL!

ExTank
January 16, 2013, 07:01 PM
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.


as one of the reasons the debate is an emotion vs. facts debate is the research don by Dr. Lott. I know enough about statistics that the question is as important as the answer and I am seriously concerned with how, what, and to whom the questions will be asked by any CDC sponsored study. Bad questions result in bad data, and if we make policy based on bad data, we get bad policy. I acknowledge that the more quality data we have the better, but the CDC has never been politics free (nor have firearms), so I am apprehensive of the results.


Now the CDC can investigate the "disease" of gun ownership and cure all us sick people. Yippee.

#14 is one of those insidious suggestions that seem reasonable, until you realize, as IdahoSkies and jon in wv (and I) do, that this very, very bad.

Cherry-picked data by anti-gun doctors and health organizations can provide "ammo" for the anti-gun lobby, in the form of "reliable" statistical studies by the likes of Arthur Kellerman, that "prove" that more gun control is needed.

There's a reason Congress smacked the C.D.C. on the wee-wee some years back and yanked a chunk of its funding: it was putting out anti-gun junk-science that, because it was "government studies," got accepted as Gospel without any peer-review. Dissenting voices were just ignored.

And if anyone is thinking that we "won" anything today, think again; all we accomplished was to push them back a bit until they can figure out their next strategy to approach the same topic with.

Alaska444
January 16, 2013, 07:12 PM
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.





#14 is one of those insidious suggestions that seem reasonable, until you realize, as IdahoSkies and jon in wv (and I) do, that this very, very bad.

Cherry-picked data by anti-gun doctors and health organizations can provide "ammo" for the anti-gun lobby, in the form of "reliable" statistical studies by the likes of Arthur Kellerman, that "prove" that more gun control is needed.

There's a reason Congress smacked the C.D.C. on the wee-wee some years back and yanked a chunk of its funding: it was putting out anti-gun junk-science that, because it was "government studies," got accepted as Gospel without any peer-review. Dissenting voices were just ignored.

And if anyone is thinking that we "won" anything today, think again; all we accomplished was to push them back a bit until they can figure out their next strategy to approach the same topic with.
+1, how can Obama strengthening his platform for future engagements be considered a win at all? Britain laid the groundwork for a complete ban in about a 100 year campaign. This is just one more brick in that concerted effort here in America.

hirundo82
January 16, 2013, 07:22 PM
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

Don't get what this has to do with anything. Very weird. The ACA is what it is, it's not like this can amend it, correct?

The text of the ACA is so vague that it leaves a lot of the substantive decisions to be made be the executive branch (mostly the Secretary of HHS, but I imagine a lot are coming directly from the White House). I imagine this vagueness is by design, to take as many decisions as possible out of the hands of Congress.

hirundo82
January 16, 2013, 07:32 PM
Patient privacy is gone with these provisions, patients who own guns are likely not going to seek any mental health care to avoid reporting this condition to NICS.

I'm a medical student; I'm currently on a psychiatry rotation at the VA, and this is a concern I hear many psychiatrists voicing.

As for myself, I can't see a medically relevant question to ask if a patient owns guns unless I think they are at a high risk of committing suicide. On my pediatrics rotation, the question in the form was "Are there any unsecured guns in the house?", which I think is a good way to ask.

CLP
January 16, 2013, 07:38 PM
I'm a medical student; I'm currently on a psychiatry rotation at the VA, and this is a concern I hear many psychiatrists voicing.

As for myself, I can't see a medically relevant question to ask if a patient owns guns unless I think they are at a high risk of committing suicide. On my pediatrics rotation, the question in the form was "Are there any unsecured guns in the house?", which I think is a good way to ask.
Seems reasonable. However, do the peds folks ask about unsecure gating around swimming pools? Do some research on how many children die from accidental drowning vs. accidental shootings and then ask some of your attendings or residents why they don't ask about swimming pools...

Queen_of_Thunder
January 16, 2013, 07:42 PM
Our Veterans are going to get screwed by Obama and the democrats. Please wrte your reps and demand that veterans be protected .

r1derbike
January 16, 2013, 07:44 PM
#18 is indeed interesting, and I support the study. However, the list is very general and written in broad-speak, probably resembling nothing that the EOs will even encompass. It looks like a trojan horse, that hasn't emptied its warriors yet.

Agree with the poster about waiting for the other shoe to fall. We haven't seen anything at all about the scope, or substance of the real cloak and dagger proposals. I'm afraid we better stick together, because it will be shocking, when the truth hits the table, as a thrown gauntlet.

Drail
January 16, 2013, 07:51 PM
"Unnecessary legal barriers" The Bill of Rights is now an "unnecessary legal barrier"?

stanmo
January 16, 2013, 08:08 PM
Sounds like a lot of nothing.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 16, 2013, 08:09 PM
What are you talking about.

Some people need to step back and take a deep breath.

NOTHING changed today.



I'm not worried about today. I'm worried about tomorrow. I'm worried about Veterans health records being used against them. I'm worried that people won't get medical care because of a loss of privacy and that said care will cost them their Rights without Due Process. I'm worried because all I see is a general list and not the published EO's. So you can drop your guard but I won't.

robhof
January 16, 2013, 08:32 PM
Nothing specific about mentally ill and guns, except throwing a bunch of our tax dollars at the CDC to study gun violence; ten years and billions of dollars to conclude; yep there's gun violence. Nothing about the worst gun violence is in the cities with the strictest gun laws??? includeing his majesty's home town of Chicago, rated #1 for gun deaths in the nation!! His gun death statistics also included Justified shootings by LE and law abiding gun owners legally defending themselves of course with fewer legal guns, criminals would be a lot safer at their jobs.:banghead::cuss::fire:

Cosmoline
January 16, 2013, 08:34 PM
11. Nominate an ATF director.

This one is particularly hilarious. He's issuing an executive order TO HIMSELF to nominate someone. I'm sure he has high hopes of breaking through his own resistance on that one.

I'll bet they had top men on it.

Top. Men.

LOL The top men who apparently decided to have him snub one of the eager youngsters.

Alaska444
January 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
I'm a medical student; I'm currently on a psychiatry rotation at the VA, and this is a concern I hear many psychiatrists voicing.

As for myself, I can't see a medically relevant question to ask if a patient owns guns unless I think they are at a high risk of committing suicide. On my pediatrics rotation, the question in the form was "Are there any unsecured guns in the house?", which I think is a good way to ask.
Best wishes to your medical studies. Unfortunately you are entering medicine in a time where politics will dictate many aspects of your practice which makes a difficult profession much more so.

I can't recall any time I asked folks about firearms, perhaps when someone stated they had suicidal ideation which was not all that often in my internal medicine practice.

Tying the firearm issue in to the Obamacare provisions along with mandatory reporting will hinder people seeking your help as a psychiatrist. Temporary issues in the eyes of a psychiatrist could lead to lifetime loss of 2A rights.

I wish you the best, medicine is a great career and I hope it remains that way. You will have a unique opportunity to impact people's lives in a positive manner few are afforded to even see. I was told as a 3rd year med student that being a doctor is a privilege. That is even more true today.

wild cat mccane
January 16, 2013, 09:35 PM
The NRA helped pass a law that the ATF director has to be passed through the house.

There is no ATF director thanks to the NRA. It is not because of Obama.

michaelbsc
January 16, 2013, 09:49 PM
... sadly, most are probably still mindlessly worshipping.

I have studiously avoided any conversation at work because of political differences between me and the guy I work with.

I'm here to tell you that some of the supporters are absolutely still worshiping.

VAPOPO
January 16, 2013, 09:53 PM
1-4 really bother me. They seem way to vague and leave the door open for misuse

Gaurentee this is a way to open up VA medical records to bar people suffering from PTSD and depression due to their military service from posessing weapons. He has tried this one before.

Sam1911
January 16, 2013, 09:57 PM
Interesting...so it looks like he WON'T ban high-cap mags via E.O.? Won't make AR-15s NFA firearms by E.O.? Won't shut down the NICS system by E.O.?

So in the end he managed to come up with 23 things he could lawfully do under his Constitutional authority ... mostly to recommend, commit, finalize, appoint and such? And not one thing that would be Constitutionally challenged? How about that?

4570Tom
January 16, 2013, 10:01 PM
Perhaps he will let Congress take the heat on the big ticket items--AWB, magazine restrictions, "gun show loophole". If Congress doesn't end up passing any or all of these he can always come back with more EOs.

anchorman
January 17, 2013, 12:04 AM
Our Veterans are going to get screwed by Obama and the democrats. Please wrte your reps and demand that veterans be protected .
from what i've seen obama has done a lot more for our veterans than the previous president, who was really in to underfunding the VA.

anchorman
January 17, 2013, 12:11 AM
. If Congress doesn't end up passing any or all of these he can always come back with more EOs.

Actually he can't. The president cannot write laws with EO's, he can only make changes within the scope of the existing laws, according to the power under those laws that he has been granted by congress, and apparently that's not much in the case of gun rights, or wouldn't he have already done it?

DammitBoy
January 17, 2013, 12:12 AM
Interesting...so it looks like he WON'T ban high-cap mags via E.O.? Won't make AR-15s NFA firearms by E.O.? Won't shut down the NICS system by E.O.?

So in the end he managed to come up with 23 things he could lawfully do under his Constitutional authority ... mostly to recommend, commit, finalize, appoint and such? And not one thing that would be Constitutionally challenged? How about that?

Gloating with "I told you so's" - not very high road... :neener:

anchorman
January 17, 2013, 12:17 AM
Gloating with "I told you so's" - not very high road... :neener:
There's a lot of stuff that's not "high road" that goes on here when a democrat is in the white house. It seems some people let their rage and fear get the best of them. it's too bad - it makes it hard for them to make friends with people who are different than they are, and makes it harder for us all to rally as a unified force around the thing we all definitely care about, our 2A rights.

foxtail207
January 17, 2013, 12:42 AM
#16 should worry everyone. Anything attached to Obamacare is no good.

gym
January 17, 2013, 12:50 AM
The reality is they are more like suggestions, not orders. EA, not EO. Executive actions. Like when he goes to the toilet. So don't worry so much yet. Nothing is going to happen unless congress votes it in.

ku4hx
January 17, 2013, 08:47 AM
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Guva-ment subsidized gun safe purchase program? Since we'd have already paid for it, I would do this. Maybe it'll be a gun safe "cash for clunkers" program and we get to trade in our decades old "safes" for something better. Just sayin'.

But then [read my signature], maybe I should just not do anything to reveal what guns I might have, to people I'd just as soon stay ignorant about them. But then I just know the feds read these forums so ......

vaupet
January 17, 2013, 09:41 AM
Bizar, in a belgian newspaper 23 measures where published tody (in dutch of course):
they differ greatly.
n 2 : prohibit the sale of AW or any rifle resembling military arms FOR YEARS to come :what:
n 3 : maximum 10 bullets alowed in a magazine
n 4 : prohibit armor piercing ammo

Is this journalistic misinformation? Where did they get this?

link to the dutch page: http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/2002/Dossier-Obama/article/detail/1563687/2013/01/16/Dit-zijn-de-23-maatregelen-tegen-wapengeweld-van-Obama.dhtml

Sam1911
January 17, 2013, 09:58 AM
vaupet...sounds like pretty gross mis-reporting. As we all know, that happens everywhere and quite often.

Trent
January 17, 2013, 05:10 PM
Have they even published the text of the EO's yet? I still can't find them, not listed on the whitehouse website, nowhere.

Bubbles
January 17, 2013, 05:39 PM
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
IMO this one will be a PITA for FFL's, increase our overhead, and will waste time and resources for LE. Most seized guns don't need to be traced to make a case for a criminal investigation.

rcmodel
January 17, 2013, 05:41 PM
Have they even published the text of the EO's yet?

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/01/politics/obama-gun-control-plan/index.html

rc

Trent
January 17, 2013, 05:51 PM
That's just the list, an overview. I want the actual legalese wording in them. That's what matters. :)

morcey2
January 17, 2013, 05:57 PM
There are a links to 3 of them here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/presidential-memoranda

Not sure what happened to the other 20.

9mmepiphany
January 17, 2013, 08:16 PM
Most seized guns don't need to be traced to make a case for a criminal investigation.
They would if they are looking at making a criminal case for supplying guns illegally to criminals

hirundo82
January 17, 2013, 09:34 PM
Seems reasonable. However, do the peds folks ask about unsecure gating around swimming pools? Do some research on how many children die from accidental drowning vs. accidental shootings and then ask some of your attendings or residents why they don't ask about swimming pools...

I'm pretty sure it did; I'm in Houston and children drowning in swimming pools is a huge problem every summer.

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