The Plan.


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LivewireBlanco
January 16, 2013, 01:20 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/obama-urges-new-restrictions-on-assault-weapons-magazines-as-part-gun-control/

Not as bad as it could've been. Do you think Congress will pass a ban?

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Buck Kramer
January 16, 2013, 05:11 PM
I think the GOP has to pass something or loose majority in two years. I HATE that idea, but the GOP has a hard fight as is. They can prevent it for two years, or agree with it now. It's sad, but that's what it boils down to.

vtbluegrass
January 16, 2013, 05:26 PM
Giving in is the worst idea ever. I say keep up the fight to keep AWB of any form from passing. If they cave now losing the majority is a given considering many of their own constituents won't vote for them again either. Write weekly to your representative. Write a hand written letter at least once to show you are serious enough to spend more than 30 seconds forwarding a form letter. Become active in a local shooting club take people who are fence sitters shooting. Blasting away at water jugs and maybe a little tannerite to end the day in my experience is a conversion experience for the uninitiated.

What I am saying is I am not prepared to give in and I hope more people feel the same.

tyeo098
January 16, 2013, 05:31 PM
Call your rep and say that if they vote for ANY legislation restricting the right of the people to keep and bear arms, you will work FEVERISHLY to have them replaced with someone that wont.

CALL THEM.

Texan Scott
January 16, 2013, 05:37 PM
^^^ THIS. Tell your Congresscritters that if they're worried about losing their seats in 2014, they'd better worry about US! If they don't compromise on gun control, they MIGHT lose seats in 2014; if they DO compromise on our 2A rights, they WILL lose in 2014, because WE WILL VOTE THEM OUT OURSELVES!

larryh1108
January 16, 2013, 07:29 PM
I think the GOP has to pass something or loose majority in two years. I HATE that idea, but the GOP has a hard fight as is. They can prevent it for two years, or agree with it now. It's sad, but that's what it boils down to.

I totally disagree with this statement. I feel that gun friendly people outnumber the antis. Up until now I feel many were just ambivalent. They never really thought about the rights they had, they just went out and bought a gun when they became fashionable. Now, states like NY are trying to take away their new found toy and they don't like it one bit. I feel that the pro gun crowd will come out stronger and harder than ever before with their votes. I think whoever votes against gun rights will pay with their job when it's election time. They saw that happen in the '94 ban. It really happened. The old timers don't forget. It will happen again.

wingman
January 16, 2013, 08:06 PM
Write your representatives and join the NRA or other 2nd amendment organizations, if all gun owners would get on the NRA membership list congress would take notice, money = power.

Wolfman131
January 16, 2013, 08:19 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/16/obama-urges-new-restrictions-on-assault-weapons-magazines-as-part-gun-control/

Not as bad as it could've been. Do you think Congress will pass a ban?
I do, yes! Just remember two things, Obamacare was dead, thats why the miracle that was "Scott Brown" occurred in MA, he was elected to STOP Obamacare!

Today, despite a dozen different proclamtions that Obamacare was dead, its the law of the land, with the full cachet of the SCOTUS backing it up, and "uhh" Scott Brown was ditched in MA, despite his female opponent being caught red handed in a huge lie about her ethnicity! Don't fool yourselves, other psychotic youths will be murdering their helpless peers in schoolhouse massacres, you can be assured of this taking place, when it does, they will be there ready to pounce.

Lastly, the midterms are just around the corner, too far off for the average American attention span yes, but just 20-months away nonetheless. The odds are strong that the marxist political party will be handed back their super majorities in both houses, I'd say its an absolute certainty they get them back, for reasons that I am not allowed to illuminate in this particular PC environment. If that happens, be sure to remember all of the staunch gun owners who insisted on universal nics not being registration, or the gateway to registration, and confiscation.

Cosmoline
January 16, 2013, 08:24 PM
They clearly HAVE no plan. When this golden opportunity presented itself, the grabbers were running all over the place advocating everything from mass confiscation to NICS expansion. And Biden's proposals are more of the same. You can convince yourself about secret Marxist cabals or whatever, but don't overpay for AR's.

Wolfman131
January 16, 2013, 08:44 PM
They clearly HAVE no plan. When this golden opportunity presented itself, the grabbers were running all over the place advocating everything from mass confiscation to NICS expansion. And Biden's proposals are more of the same. You can convince yourself about secret Marxist cabals or whatever, but don't overpay for AR's.
Think so? Maybe, but I'm of a different opinion. I think that the plan has been accomplished, in great part. The plan was nullification of the individual freedom to purchase a firearm, without the invasive presence of the state brokering the transaction, and documenting it.

Right now, I'd say that its a done deal, universal nics, my belief is that, that was the plan.

Kim
January 16, 2013, 08:49 PM
BUCK has it all wrong. If the Republicians pass AWB they will be a dead party.

Tag
January 16, 2013, 09:38 PM
Cosmoline, I think you are correct. I don't think they had any kind of plan, based on the Obama's performance today.

Almost nothing he brought up today has anything to do with the issue, clearly just executing his/their anti-gun agenda.

I mean really NY? That two round reduction is going to protect the kids?

Cosmoline
January 16, 2013, 09:44 PM
Right now, I'd say that its a done deal, universal nics, my belief is that, that was the plan.

If they had been smart they would have focused like a laser on NICS expansion, and disavowed any AWB or other gun grab. Then Obama could have said I will not touch any firearm, bullet, or your right to buy them lawfully. But it strikes me the anti-gun movement is really not very well put together. They've got a mix of ancient blue hairs who really have an emotional problem with EBR's and would never be willing to shut up about them. And they've got a lot of soccer moms who want "something done" but aren't clear on specifics because they don't really know anything about firearms. A few old Fudds may be willing to break ranks to toddle over and yammer about how no hunter would need one a dem black rifles, but they're far fewer in number now than they were 20 years ago, and none of them own major firearm companies now (clears throat). The astonishing sales figures tend to confirm the AR has become America's Rifle. That's tough to fight. I'd be much more worried about defections if they were looking exclusively to expand NICS. And ironically NICS itself, with the hard data it provides, has helped us show how popular the AR's are. Even our Dear Leader has heard of the figures, and blames them on the fear mongers at the NRA of course.

In the long term, I suspect we may well see a more focused effort on NICS expansion. But the Hill is already gearing up for yet another budget cliff fight and I don't see anything like that coming out of the process. Signing the raft of EO's has basically been flipping off the House.

chipcom
January 16, 2013, 09:52 PM
I think the GOP has to pass something or loose majority in two years. I HATE that idea, but the GOP has a hard fight as is. They can prevent it for two years, or agree with it now. It's sad, but that's what it boils down to.
I submit that the GOP will have a problem if they back this crap in any way, shape or form. Most of the left/right ideological bs only serves to keep us all divided, but this is one of those core issues that unites people from across the faux political lines. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the friend of my enemy is my enemy applies.

mokin
January 16, 2013, 09:56 PM
I believe "they" have a plan, it just hasn't been revealed. What we've seen so far is reconnaissance. What gun owners have so far is a stall in Illinois due to American style democracy and a loss in New York as the bill was railroaded through. The antis are seeing what works and how. That is why Fienstien didn't introduce her bill when it was first advertised. What Obama presented today was just to get a feel for the fall-out and how hard of a fight they have ahead of them.

larryh1108
January 16, 2013, 10:11 PM
I agree, mokin. Politicians are playing politics.... something they are good at. They are looking for the chink in the armor while wasting the resources of the NRA with state battles. State-by-state until they feel they have enough support to go national. They didn't come to this gunfight with a knife, that's for sure.

tyeo098
January 16, 2013, 10:15 PM
And they've got a lot of soccer moms who want "something done" but aren't clear on specifics because they don't really know anything about firearms.
This.

News ran a story about Wal-Mart selling 'assault weapons' and my mom shouts from the other room, "WALMART SELLS ASSAULT WEAPONS?!?!"
I responded: "Do you even know what an assault weapon is?"
She replied: "No.."

blkbrd666
January 16, 2013, 10:29 PM
The antis are seeing what works and how. That is why Fienstien didn't introduce her bill when it was first advertised.

Is that it? I wondered. I check Wiki every day, but it hasn't changed yet.

Born Dianne Emiel Goldman
June 22, 1933 (age 79)
San Francisco, California

mljdeckard
January 16, 2013, 10:34 PM
Why do you think that passing something would be better for the republicans than NOT passing something?

Congress won't pass it. The senate won't floor it until about ten o'clock next summer. This is the White House punting.

RockyTop
January 16, 2013, 10:41 PM
They won't pass anything. It won't even come to a vote. Harry Reid in the Senate won't even touch it.

All Obama has is his virtually meaningless executive orders. He can get some headlines saying he signed 23 orders and proposed these bans and regulations. But that's it. Nothing is coming of this, at least not in this current Congress. And with Obama not on the ticket in the off year '14 election, I think it's a good bet the GOP will win even more seats then.

We still need to be vocal and active but I have no fears any ban will pass nationally anytime soon.

Guillermo
January 16, 2013, 10:51 PM
the last time an "assault weapon" ban was passed it cost Democrats their majority in both houses.

I can not disagree more that R's win anything by capitulating with the Marxists.

larryh1108
January 16, 2013, 11:08 PM
The writing is on the wall. NYS started it. One-by-one the blue states will pass laws like New York did. They'll waste the NRA's money fighting each state instead of a national bill. When (if) they get both the house and the senate their way, plus the SCOTUS, they will push thru their agenda nationally. Our rights have been here for well over 200 years. They will try to dismantle it one state at a time, one year at a time. When one state falls, we all fall.

How many blue states will push thru the NY laws before we get our first day in court? How many before it gets to the Supreme Court? How many of us will lose our rights before we can fight back in the courts? Then we'll accept their versions of gun control. They cut the mags to 7 rounds and in a year or two we accept 10. They make AR's with two cosmetic features illegal and in two years we'll accept registration and tax stamps. They'll push thru unreasonable laws and then roll them back just a bit to appease the courts as a "compromise". We have to see this now, not when it is happening. If you think Obama is giving up because he doesn't have the votes today, think again. He is as shifty as they come and he wants his way no matter how long it takes.

Wolfman131
January 16, 2013, 11:21 PM
If they had been smart they would have focused like a laser on NICS expansion, and disavowed any AWB or other gun grab. Then Obama could have said I will not touch any firearm, bullet, or your right to buy them lawfully. But it strikes me the anti-gun movement is really not very well put together. They've got a mix of ancient blue hairs who really have an emotional problem with EBR's and would never be willing to shut up about them. And they've got a lot of soccer moms who want "something done" but aren't clear on specifics because they don't really know anything about firearms. A few old Fudds may be willing to break ranks to toddle over and yammer about how no hunter would need one a dem black rifles, but they're far fewer in number now than they were 20 years ago, and none of them own major firearm companies now (clears throat). The astonishing sales figures tend to confirm the AR has become America's Rifle. That's tough to fight. I'd be much more worried about defections if they were looking exclusively to expand NICS. And ironically NICS itself, with the hard data it provides, has helped us show how popular the AR's are. Even our Dear Leader has heard of the figures, and blames them on the fear mongers at the NRA of course.

In the long term, I suspect we may well see a more focused effort on NICS expansion. But the Hill is already gearing up for yet another budget cliff fight and I don't see anything like that coming out of the process. Signing the raft of EO's has basically been flipping off the House.
I sure hope you're right. The thing that has me most concerned, is how they rammed Obamacare through, against all the odds. Then they went in front of the SCOTUS with nothing, a slam dunk of a loss, and "surprise surprise" we now have socialized medicine, and an entire new bureaucracy with which to contend.

Somebody over there knows what they are doing.

Wolfman131
January 16, 2013, 11:25 PM
They won't pass anything. It won't even come to a vote. Harry Reid in the Senate won't even touch it.


I'm sorry, but thats premature, it was just reported this evening on "Special Report with Brett Bayer" that Reid has agreed to table it in the senate, early this year!

mljdeckard
January 16, 2013, 11:29 PM
Obama doesn't want to do this at all. Not because he likes guns. Far from it. He doesn't want to waste political capital on it. If he uses all of his arm twists, favors, and guilt trips now, he won't have them for things he wants much, MUCH more. He wants it to go away.

mljdeckard
January 16, 2013, 11:31 PM
How was Obamacare against ANY odds at all? They had the hat trick of both houses and the White House. That was INEVITABLE. The reason they didn't take on guns at the same time, was that house DEMS made their opposition to gun laws known in advance.

Guillermo
January 17, 2013, 10:51 AM
that Reid has agreed to table it in the senate

the word "table" in the US means "postpone" or "set aside for later consideration"

Guillermo
January 18, 2013, 10:34 AM
Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) told a local television station that he opposed the proposals.

Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) indicated he was hesitant about supporting new legislation.

Sen. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.) said on Tuesday, before the proposals came out, that he didn’t want to see a “one-size-fits-all” approach.

the list goes on of Senate Democrats that are not interested in gun control

It seems very unlikely that there will be any gun legislation. As to fuhrer-like action from the executive branch, who is to say?

Sam1911
January 18, 2013, 10:49 AM
As to fuhrer-like action from the executive branch, who is to say?Really? The President has already announced what he's doing as executive actions. A whole lot of nothing. "Promote this, intensify that, step up the other, look into things & stuff..." Nothing like "fuhrer-like" action.

Now it's on Congress to "do something" and it looks like they just won't be playing that kind of ball.

kwguy
January 18, 2013, 10:58 AM
The GOP has absolutely nothing to gain by agreeing to side with the left on this issue. What would they gain? The love of the liberal side of the congress? Really? Not. The left will still hate them, they will have capitulated to the left yet again on another issue, and will have lost those on the right over the 2nd Amendment (I'm using left / right for simplification, I know there are liberals who are pro 2A)

The worst that will happen if they stand fast against any of the bs legislation that they are being pressured to pass is what is already happening now. Abuse by the left wing media. Ok, what ELSE is new? If they bend, they will gain nothing from it, and will lose us as well. (I hope I'm right, and I hope that's the reality).

pendennis
January 18, 2013, 11:04 AM
President Obama was a lame duck president on November 7, 2012. As such, he automatically lost a bit of political capital he held prior to the election. All presidents lose political power in the second term.

Unless historical political rules all go out the window, the Democrats will lose seats in the interim elections. George Bush, Bill Clinton, Dwight Eisenhower, etc., are historical examples. The Democrats in picking up three seats, is owed more to the political landscape in each state, and Obama's coat tails than anything else. In Massachusetts, the choice was between a liberal Republican, and a liberal Democrat.

The Republicans will likely make gains in the 2014 elections, and there are enough vulnerable senators, that the Senate may indeed change hands. As such, incumbents will likely do anything to keep their current offices. The Congress owes their seats to the populace, not the president.

Congress will also wait out the "public furor" over gun control; allowing emotions to cool. The Republicans want to rub the president's face in the fiscal mess; budget, or lack thereof, debt ceiling, etc. Especially the more conservative ones.

gc70
January 18, 2013, 11:08 AM
I include the following reminder in every message I send to my Representative and Senators:

129 million votes cast in the 2012 Presidential election
80 million gun owners, all of whom are of voting age

hso
January 18, 2013, 11:32 AM
"The Plan" is based on a lie.

The Lie is there's an "epidemic of gun violence" in the U.S. that we must "do something" about.

The facts out of the Obama administration's own Dept. of Justice in the FBI's Uniform Crime Report is that "gun crime" has been falling. It has fallen since the AWB of '94 was implemented and it has fallen since the AWB expired in 2004. It has fallen to a new low in the past 20 years. This in the face of increasing AR sales in the U.S. while violent crime rates dropped. The Obama administration never discusses this fact, but the President clearly stated in his 2nd election debate that "part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence, because frankly, in my hometown of Chicago, there’s an awful lot of violence, and they’re not using AK-47s, they’re using cheap handguns.”, implying at least that the administration and the President know the conclusions from simply looking at the DOJ's FBI UCR that violent crime rates have been and are dropping. A quick look at the UCR tables reveals that rifles of all type are a small fraction of the means used to commit murder (lower percentage than hands and feet!). The President implied his knowldge of this in that one statement in the debate, "they're not using AK-47s, they're using cheap handguns".

If The Plan is based on The Lie and The Lie is easily uncovered then what is the purpose of The Plan? To include the most restrictive and odious approach in hopes of any real success when the same Plan has been introduced into Congress year after year and never given any serious consideration or to introduce them with the momentum of the tragedy at Sandy Hook in hopes of getting some of the elements of The Plan through to a vote? Or is it simply politics to polarize Congress and divide the Nation by challenging our Representatives and Senators to choose sides over this issue so that each side can demonize the other as political maneuvering?

Regardless of the plan behind putting The Plan out there because we know it is based on The Lie, our course of action should be clear. Be vigilant for each piece of legislation submitted to Congress, evaluate it, work to support the ones that are based on fact and truth and work even harder to oppose those that are based on The Lie and that would restrict gun owners being able to purchase any sort of magazine, firearm, ammunition beyond the laws in place at the close of 2012.

Guillermo
January 18, 2013, 12:40 PM
A whole lot of nothing. "Promote this, intensify that, step up the other, look into things & stuff..." Nothing like "fuhrer-like" action.

currently you are correct. who is to say that the "president" will do after the congress does nothing? I have given up trying to predict the evil that he will do.

Now it's on Congress to "do something" and it looks like they just won't be playing that kind of ball.

I concur that the facts indicate that this is correct

Sam1911
January 18, 2013, 01:43 PM
who is to say that the "president" will do after the congress does nothing? I have given up trying to predict the evil that he will do.Sure, but all indications -- really right from the initial burst of outcry -- seem to have been leading to an inevitable petering out of momentum. The best thing he could do with something so contentious and hard to win would be to delay and "think on it" for a while, release a few non-contentious orders that won't do anything at all and don't really get anyone up in arms, give it to his political scapegoat (Biden) to separate himself from the inevitable failure to go anywhere, blame Congress, and simply let the momentum for any action at all to die away as it always does.

If that's the plan (and it is pretty smart politics, after all) then he's RIGHT on track.

skeptical_in_Ohio
January 18, 2013, 02:06 PM
^^^ THIS. Tell your Congresscritters that if they're worried about losing their seats in 2014, they'd better worry about US! If they don't compromise on gun control, they MIGHT lose seats in 2014; if they DO compromise on our 2A rights, they WILL lose in 2014, because WE WILL VOTE THEM OUT OURSELVES!

I can well understand this sentiment, and I fully understand how voting for the lesser of "who gives a ......" is hard. This said, however, is it not plausible even likely that those replacing the bums getting the sack in this scenario would be worse? One might wish to review the strategy adopted by the other side - Mr. Obama said basically nothing about gun control until a tragedy fell in his lap that he could use, and this AFTER he'd faced the electorate.

razorback2003
January 18, 2013, 02:32 PM
The R's in the House have nothing to gain and a lot to lose if they lose NRA endorsement. Some D's do too.

The House has a 2 yr election cycle, so people don't forget if something irritates them about a House Representative.

Obama and the media will keep on slamming the House because that is just what they will do whether it is gun control or the debt ceiling.

abajaj11
January 18, 2013, 05:28 PM
If they had been smart they would have focused like a laser on NICS expansion, and disavowed any AWB or other gun grab. Then Obama could have said I will not touch any firearm, bullet, or your right to buy them lawfully. But it strikes me the anti-gun movement is really not very well put together. They've got a mix of ancient blue hairs who really have an emotional problem with EBR's and would never be willing to shut up about them. And they've got a lot of soccer moms who want "something done" but aren't clear on specifics because they don't really know anything about firearms. A few old Fudds may be willing to break ranks to toddle over and yammer about how no hunter would need one a dem black rifles, but they're far fewer in number now than they were 20 years ago, and none of them own major firearm companies now (clears throat). The astonishing sales figures tend to confirm the AR has become America's Rifle. That's tough to fight. I'd be much more worried about defections if they were looking exclusively to expand NICS. And ironically NICS itself, with the hard data it provides, has helped us show how popular the AR's are. Even our Dear Leader has heard of the figures, and blames them on the fear mongers at the NRA of course.

In the long term, I suspect we may well see a more focused effort on NICS expansion. But the Hill is already gearing up for yet another budget cliff fight and I don't see anything like that coming out of the process. Signing the raft of EO's has basically been flipping off the House.
Yes...NICS expansion or "Universal Background check" or "gunshow loophole closing" are all the same and cannot be effectively monitored if passed, unless all firearms are registered federally. At that point, confiscation is 2-3 years away at best.
PLease consider focusing only on the universal background check issue when talking to your congressman and senators, and tell them WHY you are opposed to this reasonable sounding measure.
For example, I say "No one is for selling firearms to criminals or the dangerously insane. However, Universal Background checks cannot be implemented without federal registration of firearms, and I am totally opposed to registration. hence, please do not vote for any kind of universal background checks because it will mean we will lose the 2A in 2-3 years or sooner. "
:)

Yelovitz_503
January 19, 2013, 03:56 PM
Really? The President has already announced what he's doing as executive actions. A whole lot of nothing. "Promote this, intensify that, step up the other, look into things & stuff..." Nothing like "fuhrer-like" action.

Now it's on Congress to "do something" and it looks like they just won't be playing that kind of ball.

I agree with Sam. I read all 23 of the executive orders right when they came out because I was concerned but I really was surprised by how little teeth they had. It's all a bunch of obvious things that we already have laws for (health officials reporting threats of violence) or it's stuff we should have been doing already (making better gun locks). Only a few of the things are even 'new' ideas and those aren't really that crazy. The vast majority seemed like feel good proposals, the fact that there are a few which are executive actions to make a presidential memorandum to start a conversation about writing a letter etc. He's kicking the can, and the NRA has enough lobbying power to keep anything from happening on a national level.

What I am concerned about are the smaller scale things which politicians get away with all the time. In Oregon, individual cities cannot make gun laws which surpass state gun law.. this hasn't stopped a number of cities from banning weapons in pubic places and making laws against open carry (which violate our state constitution). Our new mayor of Portland is putting forth legislation to try to have high capacity magazines and "assault weapons" banned completely from the city. This violates our state laws but I'm sure the overwhelmingly liberal wet-blanket types here will trick themselves into thinking it's a good thing and drink that Kool Aid. The problem is that a lot of American citizens do not understand our laws on a state or national level, and what's worse is that they will believe anything that politicians tell them (never a good idea). I wonder what will make that change.

I always tell people that if our rights will be lost, the first to go will be guns. After that what will you do to protect any of your other rights? Good luck defending the first amendement using only harsh language. I hate the slippery slope argument, but sadly that's the way it seems we're headed. I have hope that people will wake up, and that enough people are paying attention but we can't slow down because lord knows the people who oppose our rights have not, and will not be slowing down in their efforts.

alsaqr
January 19, 2013, 04:21 PM
Serious gun control legislation will not pass the US congress. Folks in several states need to wake up and realize the gun control wolf is breathing heavily on their doors. The states of CT, CO, DE, MD and othere are considering new gun control schemes. Theres a very good chance that more than one of these states will enact NY style gun control laws this year.

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