Congressman seeks to ban printed mags


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jerkface11
January 16, 2013, 09:58 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/01/16/congressman-says-hell-propose-ban-on-3d-printable-gun-magazines/

Apparently he's opposed to them being made at home and out of plastic.

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22-rimfire
January 16, 2013, 11:31 PM
I have yet to understand what a 3-D printed magazine is? How can you print on plastic?

Solo
January 16, 2013, 11:34 PM
3-D printing explained (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCRwbutAwKs)

Birch Knoll
January 16, 2013, 11:38 PM
You don't print on it. You print with it.

armoredman
January 16, 2013, 11:39 PM
A 3D "printer" is like a miniature factory that laser carves from a hunk of poly to make things based on a transmitted pattern, such as an AR-15 magazine. The one that made such a furor was made on a 1990s machine with mild plastic, and the feedlips deformed slightly upon 90 rounds of rapid fire, but it proved the concept, and with better plastic would be just as durable as any P-Mag. The body, follower and baseplate are all "printed", the spring is obtained elsewhere. I am told there ARE newer 3D "printers" that use metals, THAT could be interesting. This is why the Congresscritter wan'ts to ban them - he can't control them in cyberspace. The patterns are out on the 'net already - he's too late.

armoredman
January 16, 2013, 11:43 PM
http://youtu.be/sW3MMvKrkN0

Here's the mag in question, and the maker - he test fires at the end.

Zoogster
January 16, 2013, 11:47 PM
Sadly the article quotes him as using a 'semi auto' rifle.

The rifle was in fact fully automatic.

The use of a fully automatic rifle actually demonstrates reliability even better than a semi-auto rifle because of the high feed rate required.


However in this article where they provide a link to actually see the demonstration of the fully automatic rifle it will help to confuse the uneducated into thinking the video is of a 'semi auto' rifle, those things they are trying to ban, and they will see a fully automatic rifle.
Helping to associate fully automatic fire with the term 'semi auto'. Something done intentionally by anti gunners in the 1990s to promote the now expired federal AWB and some state level restrictions.

Sun195
January 17, 2013, 12:34 AM
They'll probably have as much luck restricting 3D printing as they have restricting other "unapproved" file sharing.

Sorry - genie is out of the bottle on this one.

sidheshooter
January 17, 2013, 12:47 AM
^^^I have a friend working in graphics that has a 3d printer. Quite amazing to see. In 10 years, they will be ubiquitous (and much improved) and there are plenty of smart college kids who could design up the files for, say, a Glock 19 mag. Genie is not just out of the bottle; he's going to start granting wishes, to boot.

Justin
January 17, 2013, 01:09 AM
The leftists in this country are already seeking to make 10+ round magazines illegal.

What does this dip actually propose? To make 3d printed magazines double plus secret illegal?

These people are so utterly and fundamentally out of touch it would be hilarious if they weren't so clearly dangerous.

armoredman
January 17, 2013, 11:23 PM
No, not double secret probation!:what::neener:

I want a vz-58 magazine program, have some spare springs around here somewhere...

Cesiumsponge
January 17, 2013, 11:27 PM
Good luck with that, Congressman. Maybe you can attach that to the "Ban Inkjet Printers From Printing Child Porn Bill".

vtail
January 17, 2013, 11:34 PM
Government needs to learn that if it's bits and bytes, they ain't stopping it.

sonick808
January 17, 2013, 11:50 PM
these gun grabbers would have banned the industrial revolution if this hoplophobia had existed in the 19th century

sonick808
January 17, 2013, 11:53 PM
^^I have a friend working in graphics that has a 3d printer. Quite amazing to see. In 10 years, they will be ubiquitous (and much improved) and there are plenty of smart college kids who could design up the files for, say, a Glock 19 mag. Genie is not just out of the bottle; he's going to start granting wishes, to boot.

I have an old reprap that I plan to rebuild, and a hackerspace here in town has several of the devices. It might take ten 'til ubiquity, but i suspect we're talking close to 5. Just a guess... The cool part is that it doesn't take an industrial budget, this is a desktop revolution, the best type of all

velojym
January 18, 2013, 12:03 AM
They're going to have to approach it in a neo-Luddite direction, persecuting techies and burning electronics in the square. The only way they can stop this, ultimately, is to bring us to the world envisioned in the story Anthem.
http://manybooks.net/titles/randaynetext98anthm10.html

You can't stop the signal!

Trent
January 18, 2013, 12:05 AM
The leftists in this country are already seeking to make 10+ round magazines illegal.

What does this dip actually propose? To make 3d printed magazines double plus secret illegal?

These people are so utterly and fundamentally out of touch it would be hilarious if they weren't so clearly dangerous.

HAHAHA! "Double Plus Secret Illegal"

Oh man, that's good.

velojym
January 18, 2013, 12:08 AM
They'll also add "And we REALLY mean it this time" to the Gun-Free zone signs too.

Dr_B
January 18, 2013, 12:18 AM
Dang! And I'll bet they'll outlaw time travel as soon as it arrives too.

ErikO
January 18, 2013, 01:09 AM
I'm planning on taking up metal forming. No particular reason.

Solo
January 18, 2013, 02:09 AM
Dang! And I'll bet they'll outlaw time travel as soon as it arrives too.
No, this is the sort of thing you have to nip in the bud before it comes up. Or... after, depending on your point of view.

Time travel plays all kinds of hell with causality.

Westfair
January 18, 2013, 08:53 AM
Guys - all they have to do is create "3D Printer Free Zones" and it will stop it!

Yeah...

jerkface11
January 18, 2013, 11:10 AM
I really think someone needs to explain the technological singularity to these guys.

MachIVshooter
January 18, 2013, 11:14 AM
A 3D "printer" is like a miniature factory that laser carves from a hunk of poly

Umm, no.

They feed polymer thread from a reel, heat it in the nozzle and squirt it out, "printing" the product line by line, layer by layer.

MagnumDweeb
January 18, 2013, 11:20 AM
http://defcad.org/

mags and receivers are already designed and available

hak
January 18, 2013, 11:43 AM
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Distributed

"Defense Distributed is an online, open-source, non-profit[2] organization that is attempting to design a firearm, called a Wiki Weapon,[5][6][7] that may be downloaded from the internet and "printed" with a 3-D Printer.[5] Among the organization's goals is to develop and freely publish design schematics[8] that would enable "a working plastic gun that could be downloaded and reproduced by anybody with a 3D printer."[9]
After raising over US$20,000 via a crowd-funding appeal,[5][9] suffering the confiscation of its first 3D printer,[10] and partnering with private manufacturing firms,[11] the organization has begun live fire testing of printable firearm components.[12][13]"

They've come pretty far for 6 months of work...

"According to the Defense Distributed website, the nonprofit is organized and operated for charitable and literary purposes, specifically "to defend the civil liberty of popular access to arms as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and affirmed by the Supreme Court, through facilitating global access to, and the collaborative production of, information and knowledge related to the 3D printing of arms; and to publish and distribute... such information and knowledge in promotion of the public interest."[2][11] The websites's “Manifesto” page presents a string of quotations from American and British historical figures than can be broadly read to support the right to arms and freedom of speech.[5][18]
The organization’s motivations have been described as "less about [a] gun... than about democratizing manufacturing technology,"[19] but to date, the only direct explication of Defense Distributed’s purpose has been in a speech given by Wilson at a Bitcoin conference in London.[20]
In an interview with Slashdot, Cody Wilson discussed the organization’s Wiki Weapon project as a chance to "experiment with Enlightenment ideas… to literally materialize freedom.”[21]"

3D printers may/can/should be like color printers today - found in every house or business in 5-10 years, these guys predict.

Skribs
January 18, 2013, 11:54 AM
They can make it illegal. All it will do is prevent people who don't want to break the law from making them. It will do nothing to prevent criminals (who don't care about the law) from making them. Explain to me again how this stops crime without infringing on our rights?

mgmorden
January 18, 2013, 11:57 AM
They can make it illegal. All it will do is prevent people who don't want to break the law from making them. It will do nothing to prevent criminals (who don't care about the law) from making them. Explain to me again how this stops crime without infringing on our rights?

Kinda. Laws become even more ineffectual when the changes of getting caught breaking it go to next to nothing AND there is no clearly identified "victim" of the crime.

Remember, it's also illegal to copy songs off the of the internet. How well do you think that's working?

Skribs
January 18, 2013, 12:16 PM
I realize that, mgmorden. I know some people only commit victimless crimes ("I aint hurtin' noone") and personally I don't think there should BE victimless crimes, but that's starting to get outside the scope of THR (except to say that getting rid of those would free up prisons for violent offenders, and freeing the streets of violent offenders should allow a people-oriented government to free the gun shops for their shoppers...).

My point is, if you take an average 30-year-old mother of two who's nerd husband just bought a 3D printer, and a gangster who just used some of his drug and/or protection money to buy a 3D printer, who is more likely to make illegal products with it? Thus, making the product illegal means that nerd husband who also happens to be a gun nut is under restrictions from his wife to not make any "illegal double secret assault clips", infringing on his rights. The gangster, on the other hand, is counting on his hands "dealing drugs, pimping, extortion, assault, attempted murder, armed robbery...who cares about illegal manufacturing?"

sonick808
January 18, 2013, 03:08 PM
go to defcad.com and download the "mega pack".

Even if you NEVER plan to print 3d, it ensures data continuity.

label it , burn it, put it with your important docs, you become part of the continuum.
:)

sonick808
January 18, 2013, 03:18 PM
ok , playing with these models in Blender is really fun. I'm thinking a green plaid AR-15 with a wicker muzzle brake

mcdonl
January 18, 2013, 03:32 PM
The leftists in this country are already seeking to make 10+ round magazines illegal.

What does this dip actually propose? To make 3d printed magazines double plus secret illegal?

These people are so utterly and fundamentally out of touch it would be hilarious if they weren't so clearly dangerous.

I can see the strategy... WHEN the actual proposals gets shot down something like this could slip through, setting precedence that the device is illegal and the manufacturing methods are secondary....

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