[skypirate7]

Alright friends. A lot of you love Savage for precision rifles and have steering me away from more expensive Remington options. It does seem that I can get a lot more for my money with a Savage. So let's run through an intellectual exercise:

Help me build the best precision Savage with a budget of $1700.

- Assume rifle is new-in-box
- Caliber is .308 winchester
- Must be capable out to 700 yards

Walk through what YOU would buy in terms of the NIB rifle model/configuration, optics, rings and mount, stock (if changed), and other items (ex: bipod, sling, whatever you deem necessary). The more details, the better. If I like the build, I may literally buy it in the next few days. Your reasoning would also be appreciated, especially if comparing to alternatives (ex: scope 1 vs scope 2). I want to understand why. Justify your choice.

Thanks in advance to all who participate. :)

[skypirate7]

Anyone?

[ironworkerwill]

Get a mod 12 receiver(where ever u can) bout 700 dollas. Everything else u can get from sharpshootersupply.com such as a Brux barrel witch are round 500 and a stock for I think 2oo bucks plus other stuff you may want. Get you a barrel wrench and a go-nogo gauge no gunsmith required.And spend what u can on a USO or maybe a NightForce.

[adelbridge]

When you say "build" do you mean buy an off the shelf gun and put a bipod and scope rings and take to the range? If you want to truly build a savage actioned rifle you are going to need a stock, barrel and action. Check out the Savage Palma, it costs about $1700 just for the gun and it is a single shot. For $1700 you could probably have a custom shop make you a pretty nice rig, that is what I would do. Optics are going to add $$ but check out vortex. probably want to start with a minimum of 4-12 or 4-16X. I use a 6.5X20 weaver for long range shooting and I am happy. .308 isnt the best caliber past 250 yards, it will work to 700 yards but you are going to rely on dope guesstimates. If i had to do it again I would probably go with a .300 WSM

[MtnCreek]

Model 11 Long Range Hunter looks pretty good. MSRP is $1020. They are available in .260, 6.5 Creedmore and .308win.

Rifle ~$950
20moa Rail ~$100
Rings ~$120

Leaves $500+ for the scope.

[cal30_sniper]

I'm working on something like this right now. Same idea and goals, but I'm using a .30-06 because that's what I have on hand for the most ammo. I got into a complete 110 model with a wood stock for about $275. Its going into a pillar-bedded laminate stock that I got off ebay for $75. I'll glassbed the stock (~$25). I plan on topping it off with a 4.5-14X Burris Fullfield II scope mounted on a turn in one-piece scope mount (~$350 for the scope and mount used). That brings the total out to about $725. I may end up changing the trigger on it, which would put it right at $800. I plan on stopping my build there, but that leaves an extra $900 if you wanted to re-barrel it, which should buy any length and contour you want in a really nice barrel.

I think you'd be a lot better off just picking up a used Savage 10f and re-barreling it. You can buy a complete rifle with factory fiberglass stock for less than $350. When glassbedded, the factory stock is quite rigid and also very light. You might also consider one of the boyds laminate stocks for $100. Choate and Bell and Carson both make quality bedded stocks in the $250 area.

.308 will work just fine at 700yds. The military has been using that setup since Vietnam for their sniper rifles.

[skypirate7]

I'm working on something like this right now. Same idea and goals, but I'm using a .30-06 because that's what I have on hand for the most ammo. I got into a complete 110 model with a wood stock for about $275. Its going into a pillar-bedded laminate stock that I got off ebay for $75. I'll glassbed the stock (~$25). I plan on topping it off with a 4.5-14X Burris Fullfield II scope mounted on a turn in one-piece scope mount (~$350 for the scope and mount used). That brings the total out to about $725. I may end up changing the trigger on it, which would put it right at $800. I plan on stopping my build there, but that leaves an extra $900 if you wanted to re-barrel it, which should buy any length and contour you want in a really nice barrel.

I think you'd be a lot better off just picking up a used Savage 10f and re-barreling it. You can buy a complete rifle with factory fiberglass stock for less than $350. When glassbedded, the factory stock is quite rigid and also very light. You might also consider one of the boyds laminate stocks for $100. Choate and Bell and Carson both make quality bedded stocks in the $250 area.

.308 will work just fine at 700yds. The military has been using that setup since Vietnam for their sniper rifles.

Good stuff. I'm having trouble keeping track of the Savage models though. I heard the Savage 10 is what I should be looking at but I'm not sure beyond that. I want a heavy barrel. Is that the 10F?

[kludge]

Savage Target Action. $550
Chamber reamer made to your specs + gauges $260
Dies made to reamer specs $250
McGowen barrel installed $350
Stock = pick your favorite $250
That leaves only $40 for optics...

Hmmm... Ok forget the custom reamer and dies

That leaves $550 for optics, that's an entirely new can of worms.

[skypirate7]

Go ahead and post some recommendations. Be specific. Which model gun? Which model scope?

[jhtrue]

Savage model 12 BVSS with monarch 6-24x50 scope on IOR Valdera 20 MOA angled base and 500MM IOR Valdera rings is what I have and I am very happy with the set up. And as a bonus it comes in way under your price you could up the quality of your scope if you wanted. (that accu-trigger is nice)

rifle - $750
scope - $650
base and rings $150
total $1550

[cal30_sniper]

Good stuff. I'm having trouble keeping track of the Savage models though. I heard the Savage 10 is what I should be looking at but I'm not sure beyond that. I want a heavy barrel. Is that the 10F?

The heavy barrel model you are thinking of is the 10FP (I believe the 'P' stands for 'Police'). It has a heavy bull barrel and is chambered in .308 and .223. That was how it started out anyways, there are now many variations on the theme, including .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua long action versions.

The Savage actions follow a very simple numberings scheme. 2 Digit actions are short actions (i.e., Savage 10,11,12,14,16). 3 digit actions are long actions (110, 111, 114, 116). From there, the last digit is used to break down the rest of the specifics. 0 or 1 is your basic rifle, and I believe is pretty much used interchangeably. 12 is a Varmint or Target rifle. Some are single shots and/or thickened receivers. A last digit of 4 denotes a higher grade rifle finish, i.e., the Classic Series. The last digit of 6 denotes a Stainless Steel rifle. As far as alphabetical suffixes, 'F' generally stands for 'fiberglass stock', 'G' means wood stocked, 'H' stands for hinged floorplate, 'C' stands for detachable magazine, 'L' stands for left handed, 'P' denotes a tactical model, 'SS' is for stainless steel, and 'NS' stands for no sights. I believe that 'T' also stands for thumbhole stock, but I'm not certain on that one.

Again, if it were me, I'd skip paying a whole lot extra for a target or varmint action, and just rebuild an old factory gun. For the kind of accuracy you're looking for (not benchrest 1 hole performance, just real world shooting ability), the accuracy lies in the barrel, trigger, and optics choice. The standard action will be more than adequate, and much cheaper to source used.

[greyling22]

stevens 200 action 200-300,
barrel of your choice (mcgowen, kreiger, shilien, shaw, etc. 100-400
stock of your choice (boyds, mcmillian etc 100-500)
trigger - 100
bolt on doodads of your choice such as recoil lug, rings/rail, bolt handle etc.
you could even spring for a time and true from sharp shooters or somewhere. they are supposed to be nice. ($150-200)
scope - $30 and up. probably somewhere in the 200 - 300 range would be best.

here is the savage shooters forum "help me decide" section http://www.savageshooters.com/forumdisplay.php?44-Help-Me-Decide

[browningguy]

Savage F/TR, Weaver 6.5-20 Grand Slam, whatever rings you like.

[Cee Zee]

I went with a 12 LRPV. Mine is .223 but they made them in .308 for a while. You would need a used one or a need old stock model for find a .308. I looked around and did find a new, old stock .223 12 LRPV on the net but of course you would want to find a .308. The price of the .223 I found was $938. That leaves plenty of room for glass and mounts.

This rifle is a favorite of the shooters on the Savage board. They prefer the 26" barrels because they are balanced better than the 30" barrels. There are different models of the LRPV around so you would need to make sure you got the right one. What you want is one with a target action (not all had this - look for the red blade in the AccuTrigger) and of course the single shot.

These are 1000 yard rifles. You can get more distance than that with these rifles if you have the skills. These rifles come with the HS Precision stock which is a very good stock. It's not as good as the McMillan from what I hear but it doesn't cost as much either. It will get the job done very well.

Everything on these rifles is the same as the F/TR rifles which have set all sorts of records in that shooting class. These rifles are bringing home the trophies from the international competitions and we're talking about a stock, production rifle shooting against custom built rifles. A lot of people refuse to believe this but there is a lot of evidence they are doing exactly that.

The only difference between the LRPV and the F/TR rifles is the stocks, which are laminated on the F/TR and the barrel length which is 30" on the F/TR and 26" on the LRPV. Again people who own these rifles prefer the shorter barrels. And of course there's the big difference - the price. You can get essentially the same rifle (with possibly a better stock IMO) for quite a bit less money especially if you're willing to go with a used model. I bought mine used for just about the same price as the one listed on GunsAmerica for $938. (http://www.gunsamerica.com/938224243/Guns/Rifles/Savage-Rifles/Accutrigger-Models/Sporting/SALE_SAVAGE_12_LRPV_AccuTrigger_223_Rem_NE.htm) Mine had been shot less than 10 times. There wasn't even any powder residue in it and I'm talking nowhere in the places that are extremely hard to be cleaned. The one on GA is actually a new rifle.

[limpingbear]

I found a used savage 112 in 25-06 for 300....Im looking at getting a pac-nor barrel in palma sendero configuration cambered in 6.5-06 ackley improved for about 400. The gun came with a rifle basix trigger already installed, but it will get a new stock.

look around....find a good used one and go from there, just remember that the rifle is only going to shoot as well as the optics will allow. you will spend almost as much for the scope as you do the rifle....

[lefteyedom]

Fine someone that has built one you like and offer them $1500 for it

[ironworkerwill]

well a good starting point would be the model 12 target action (action only). I don't know how you feel about the single shot but its very ridged and it has either one port on the bolt side or one port on both right and left sides, one to feed and one ejection. this price includes every thing you'll need except the barrel and stock. It's a single shot action and the MSRP on the high end is $651.00. thats quoted directly from the savage site. I misquoted the price yesterday at $700.

[Z-Michigan]

Precision means different things. Do you mean 1 MOA or 0.25 MOA? Do you need a magazine or is single round feed OK?

If you're building the ultimate Savage, I'd get the single round target action and a high end aftermarket barrel. You've just spent $1000+ and have only an action and a barrel. I'm not seeing a complete rifle at $1700 with a decent scope.

If you have to tinker a lot, get a Stevens 200, toss the factory barrel and install something a little better. Fun to do, a lot of hassle for minimal benefit over...

Option 3. Get one of the heavier barrel factory complete rifles, preferably a NON-accustock model, toss the $20 stock and put the action into a quality stock. I would take a serious look at the Choate varmint and tactical options, and the Bell & Carlson medalist varmint/tactical. I have not been impressed by HS Precision vs. B&C, and anything above those will cost $500+ and blow your budget. Going this route will still cost you around $1000 for the rifle, leaving you not a whole lot for scope, base and rings. Depends whether you want to upgrade later or not.

Option 4 is just pick something in their line that's decent without any upgrades. The 12BVSS mentioned above would be a good bet.

I would budget at least $600 for a good scope for your purposes. The only scopes under that range I would consider would be the SWFA SS fixed power (10x or 12x) at $300, and the Burris MTAC 3.5-10x42 at around $450. But $600+ will get you a nicer scope, particularly in the Vortex Viper PST and Viper HS lines and the Bushnell Elite 6500 series.

[Onewolf]

I have a Savage Long Range Precision 260 that I bought last October. This is my first real rifle and my goal is to learn how to shoot precisely/accurately at long range. When I bought the rifle I didn't know whether I would have the talent/passion for long range shooting so I bought an inexpensive "starter" scope to learn with. The scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X fixed, mil-dot, 0.1 mil turrets. It was on sale at MidwayUsa for $200 and I got the $75 Bushnell Elite rebate (I already received the $75 check from Bushnell.)

My 'normal' rifle range is 100yd, 200m, 300m and I have been working on my technique at these ranges for about 2 months now. And I have started handloading and developing a load for this rifle.

On Monday I participated in my first "long range" practice/qualification session. I had no trouble qualifying at 500, 600, 800, and 1000 yds. I can see where I will probably eventually want more magnification at 800/1000 yards, but that is not a significant issue compared to learning to how to accurately DOPE the wind at those distances. :cuss:

My point being, that depending on what you want to use the rifle for, an inexpensive fixed scope would allow you to spend more on the rifle and less on the scope.

Here is what the targets looked like at 600 yards with the 10X scope. I was 13/14 hitting the rightmost 10" round target. Which I was quite happy with given my first time shooting beyond 300m.

[skypirate7]

There is a wealth of information here and I really appreciate the time you all took to post. I'm going through all of the details and looking up specific rifles and optics on the net to get a good sense of things. This will take some time. :)

[skypirate7]

Ok friends, I'm back and I'm the owner of a new-in-box Savage 10FP-SR in .308 Winchester with a 22 inch long barrel from my local gun store. $639.99, after tax came to $678.39 out the door.

Now then... I'm looking for scopes and how to mount this... base and rings, right?

My gun store has a new Leupold MK-IV 4.5x14-40 matte duplex for $749. What are your thoughts on this? What are your recommendations?

I also need recommendations for base and rings. My local gun store will mount and bore-sight this for me if I purchase the scope from them. :)

[MtnCreek]

Wrong reticle. You need a reticle that will allow measured holds and even ranging.

I would suggest something with mrad based reticle and mrad turrets. Shooting at distance is tough enough, no need for extra math... I think it was one of your threads where I mentioned the 5-15 Vortex Viper that was a deal at Midway recently. If you could grab one of those off a trading post, that would be a good one to get. It doesn't have all the bells & whistles, but it's a pretty solid scope w/ the right features to learn on.

You should look at the 1 piece rails with ~ 20 moa of built in elevation. With most scopes, you'll need that 20 moa to get the .308 out there in distance. I've used nightforce, but I have an EGW (I think that's right) for a Savage that was a good bit less (but haven't used it yet).

Get some quality rings. Nightforce steel rings are good; I like the 'square to square' contact between the rings/rail. There're lots of good rings out there, someone could probably list some others.

If you spent 200 to 300 on the mounts and 500 one the glass, you'ld be right on target w/ a little cash for a bipod and ammo.

[ball3006]

That is a lot of money. I will take my 150 buck M39 Mosin Nagant with a scout scope that will shoot less than one inch groups at 100 meters with out of the box Privi ammo. Thank you.....chris3

[skypirate7]

Chris, I've got a M44 and while groups are respectable at 100 yards I cannot shoot sub-MOA with iron sights.

Mtncreek, ok I agree with you - I want a scope with mildots. Is the Vortex Viper any good? People keep steering me to Leupold.

[ironworkerwill]

I like the weaver style bases and rings. Or the picatinney rail looks nice. The rail has a "professional look" it's a bit stiffer too and may make the action more ridged. Nice gun choice! Does it have the threaded barrel? If so do you plan on getting a can or a brake?

[skypirate7]

Yes, comes with a factory-threaded barrel. I think eventually I'll put a nice flash hider on it since I want it to be "tactical" and I hear that muzzle breaks are louder. Any flash hider suggestions?

As for scope and mounts, here is what I ordered:

Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm Side Focus 1/10 MIL Adjustments Mil-Dot Reticle Matte
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183567/vortex-viper-hs-tactical-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-5-15x-44mm-side-focus-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte

TPS XP Tactical 1 Piece Base (aluminum alloy, 20MOA, for Savage short-actions with round receiver)
http://swfa.com/TPS-XP-Tactical-1-Piece-Base-P42063.aspx

TPS Tactical Scope 30mm Rings (aluminum allow, super low .82", picatinny)
http://swfa.com/TPS-Tactical-Scope-30mm-Rings-P41992.aspx

What do you think of that setup? And will I have enough clearance with the scope and the super low rings?

[ironworkerwill]

44mm shouldn't touch the barel but its hard to know for sure sight unseen. You probably done right by the super lows because of the 30mm tube. I've never had any experience with the vortex but the 15x is really a plus. Otherwise the bases and rings is what I would have chosen. NICE!

[MtnCreek]

Any flash hider suggestions?
http://thunderbeastarms.com/products/30p-1
http://www.templartacticalfirearms.com/shop/suppressors/archangel-30-cal-suppressor/

:)

[skypirate7]

Thanks friends. Doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations...

The Vortex scope has a bell outside diameter of 51.3mm (effectively 52mm). So according to this chart, with a 30mm tube it will require a minimum tube elevation of .300 inches: http://media.midwayusa.com/charts/ring_height.htm

The TPS low rings give .335 inches elevation: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/244847/tps-30mm-tsr-picatinny-style-aluminum-rings-matte-low

The TPS super-low rings give .228 inches elevation:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/227151/tps-30mm-tsr-sl-picatinny-style-aluminum-rings-matte-super-low

So I think the low rings would definitely work and the super-low rings would work only if I get more than .072 inches of height from the mount.

Thoughts?

[MtnCreek]

If those rings won't give enough clearance for scope covers, I would go with taller rings. Good news is Midway has a great return policy. I returned some Luaplod rings that I had for about a year (1", never used).

Depending on how you're built, taller rings may suit you better anyway.

[mnhntr]

Easy. Buy a 12 LRP in .308 and put a Bushnell 3200 10x40 with a 20MOA rail. Done and money left over.

[ironworkerwill]

I think that 20moa base has you covered. It looks a good bit taller than a standard 2piece weaver.

[dubbleA]

I think that 20moa base has you covered. It looks a good bit taller than a standard 2piece weaver.


It may be taller but since it's canted it tips the objective end downward so the super low rings may not work.

[Cee Zee]

I have not been impressed by HS Precision vs. B&C

I have a B&C on one Savage and a H-S Precision on another. I like the B&C but there's no doubt the H-S is a better stock IMO. It's more rigid but not by a lot. Either stock works fine for me but the 12 LRPV comes with a H-S and it's a really good package. Like you said to do better you're going to have to spend a whole lot more money. There is the bad politics of H-S Precision though but that's a story for another board. They seem to have straightened it up anyway.

Again I would get a 12 LRPV because it's the cheapest package deal with the target action and it has the superior 26" barrel. 700 yards would be no problem at all for the .308 model. The barrels on these rifles are actually very good. For someone trying to come in under $1700 I don't think you could do better. Spend the rest on quality glass and you have a great setup. I'd go with a Weaver myself. Many bench rest shooters will say the Weaver is the lowest level of a scope that's good enough. It's probably going to cost around $500 for a good scope and mounting hardware. No it isn't a Nightforce but that isn't going to fit into the budget mentioned. Weaver makes good scopes. The T series is a popular choice for rifles in this price range.

I think you'll have a 1000 yard rifle with that setup myself. All you have to do is check out what Team Savage is doing with similar rifles. They're setting world records for individual and team scoring in F/TR shooting with a rifle that is not very different from this package. They would be using better scopes of course. But people do shoot 1000 yards with a setup like this. My .223 will do very well at 500 yards. I've never got to shoot it any farther than that. I don't think it will have a problem at 700 yards either to be honest. It will take more talent on my part and maybe I can't do it but the rifle will if it has someone that knows how.

[henschman]

I am also currently doing a somewhat budget-minded Savage long range/sniper build. I found a base model Savage 11 in .308 for $350 NIB. I am getting a Criterion SS heavy sporter barrel in .260 Rem from Northland Shooters Supply for $300 plus shipping, along with a RifleBasix trigger for $85. I am going with a McRees Precision G5 TMAG chasis with folding stock for $650. I will need a few AI mags to go with the chasis, at $62 a pop from Alpha Industries. All that plus the price of a decent optic will put my build a bit over your price limit, but I am working under different constraints... my build is being funded by an M-14 that I just sold for a fair bit more than that. I guess some might call this a budget minded build, but it will still end up being the most expensive gun in my collection!

FYI, lots of us don't want to do business with H-S Precision because they are a bunch of bootlickers who used a recommendation from Lon Horiuchi in one of their ads several years ago. Apparently they believed it would appeal to a certain clientele that they cater to, probably correctly (which is a scary enough prospect) but it certainly rubs me and many others the wrong way. One of the reasons I want to own a sniper rifle is because of the existence of pieces of filth like Horiuchi, and the fact that such people are employed by the government.

[Cee Zee]

That was the politics of H-S that I mentioned in my post henschman. It really, really stinks the way they stood behind that slime ball. I just didn't want to discuss a political topic here but I'm on your side with that. I bought my rifle with the H-S before I knew about the situation with Lon. Anyone thinking about buying one of their products should really check out who Horiuchi is and what H-S did regarding him. But they do make a decent stock and Savage puts them on their rifles in package deals so maybe some people can get past the way they did things.

[NDMarksman]

My Model 10 Predator Hunter in .243 Winchester. It shoots 95 grain Berger VLD's pushed with RL22 with such accuracy it's scary!! It's a Zeiss Conquest with the Rapid Z-800 sitting on top and some self-clinging camo wrap from Cabela's to help the scope blend in. The entire package barely over $1,700.