Is it legal to own an RPG?


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Nowhere Man
January 17, 2013, 03:35 PM
I keep hearing the talking heads say it's illegal to own machine guns and RPGs. I know they are half wrong. Is it legal to own an RPG?

Dave

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Dr. Sandman
January 17, 2013, 03:36 PM
It depends. How about some more information?

Nowhere Man
January 17, 2013, 03:42 PM
The press says we can't own machine guns. Yes we can. We can own cannons. We can own tanks. We can own fighter jets.

With the proper paperwork, is there any law that says we can't own an RPG?


Dave

JohnnyK
January 17, 2013, 03:48 PM
look on gun broker they have rpg on there...

Fryerpower
January 17, 2013, 03:49 PM
It can't be totally illegal or they would not have been able to do the Myth Buster's episode about the scene from the movie "Red".

Jim

Diamondback6
January 17, 2013, 03:52 PM
Depends on State laws. Federally, machine guns are registered under the National Firearms Act of '34, and to be legally transferable for civilian ownership it needs to have been registered before the registry closed in 1986. $200 tax and a Form 4 to register.

For an RPG, it'd be an Explosive Destructive Device... assuming it was legally imported, again, $200 and a Form 4.

Let's say you could get somebody to sell you an Abrams, roll-away, just as a thought experiment. The coaxial 7.62 and the commander's hatch gun would be illegal MG's and have to be scrapped, the main gun at greater than 1/2" bore and no sporting purpose is a Large Bore Destructive Device ($200 and a Form 4), and each shell is an Explosive DD (which means $200 and a Form 4 EACH). And, oh by the way, you ALSO have to make sure it's kosher under all State and Local laws too...

IANAL and I'm not even a meber of the NFA-owner club, but I've been following the subject ever since college, and hopefully this'll help you out a little.

Zardaia
January 17, 2013, 03:53 PM
Depends on your state, some have there own ban on nfa items others you only got jump through all the right fed hoops. Are there any transferable rpg's? I mean live rockets not just the tubes. If so i imagine the price'd be sky high for a cheap military weapon. Just because somthing's technicaly legal dosn't mean it isn't legislated into practical non-existence or at least non-existent at a fair market price rather than locked supply prices.

Nowhere Man
January 17, 2013, 04:03 PM
Oh man, you guys are getting way more specific/technical than I wanted to go with my hypothetical question. :( To be expected, I guess.



Dave

brnmw
January 17, 2013, 04:18 PM
It would not be worth the "Red tape" and or responsibility of owning one.... fun to shoot taking out a tree stump, yes...Not own. IMO.
(But Law State to state would be the answer to that.)

SharpsDressedMan
January 17, 2013, 04:58 PM
There ARE registered RPG rocket launcher in civilan hands. Many were "built" or "re-watted" after being made into a dewat or demilled. The paper work and approval is filed first, then the entity (manufacturer or individual) fabricates the weapon. DOWNSIDE? Each individual rocket fired from an RPG launcher, which are pretty much non-existent as original, explosive warhead, would also be subject to a $200 tax for each one (same as a hand grenade), and classified as a destructive device (DD), and require the same approval by BATF. Once you fired it, the cost of the rocket and the extra $200 tax is gone up in smoke. Lots of people have registered 40mm grenade lauchers, like M79's or M203's, but most just shoot practice rounds, flares, smoke, or tear gas grenades that do NOT require the $200 tax as those projectiles are not classified as destructive device/explosive warheads. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vCww3j2-w.................................. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05558.jpg

Nowhere Man
January 17, 2013, 07:31 PM
Thanks guys!


Dave

Prince Yamato
January 17, 2013, 09:18 PM
You can also shoot 40mm buckshot rounds too.

JustinJ
January 18, 2013, 09:57 AM
How did explosive projectiles make their way to private ownership and are the same routes no longer available?

SharpsDressedMan
January 18, 2013, 03:40 PM
If you know HOW to make HE rounds for an RPG, and file the correct app's for licenses and permits, you can register your own (destructive device -grenade). Contact BATF.

Nasty
January 18, 2013, 04:41 PM
An M79 can also be fired with a 12ga reducer...rounds of skeet could be great fun!

el Godfather
January 20, 2013, 08:57 PM
This is very interesting.

Where I live, I can own a Glock 18C, but not RPG. I am not sure how to manage RPGs in civilian use. Not against it, but not sure how to manage it.

Registering each rocket would be a pain. There should be some way to cover that in one paperwork. May be a commercial less lethal projectiles should be made available to handle that. Not sure. Just discussing ideas.

This entire AWB should be scraped. It is just another reason for illegal weapons.

mboylan
January 22, 2013, 07:40 PM
The storage requirments and licenses needed to own high explosive rounds are way beyond people who don't work with HE for a living. The $200 NFA tax is the lowest obstacle.

SharpsDressedMan
January 23, 2013, 07:51 AM
The requirement to have a magazine (storage area) for a DD is no different than those required for black powder storage for gun stores that sell black powder.

Kramer Krazy
January 23, 2013, 10:56 PM
Forget the RPG, I want THIS - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=326776075

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/326776000/326776075/pix590995716.jpg

Nowhere Man
January 24, 2013, 06:50 AM
That's AWESOME!!


Dave

SharpsDressedMan
January 24, 2013, 01:01 PM
Too heavy. I'd still take the RPG! Before you turned that big baby around, you could fire an RPG about 5 times. :D

Kramer Krazy
January 24, 2013, 10:53 PM
Before you turned that big baby around, you could fire an RPG about 5 times.
That's why I'd also have a buddy with a rifle and a sidearm ready for you as I turn that beastie around. Regardless, I'd still majorly trump you on cool factor alone. :neener:

RetiredUSNChief
January 24, 2013, 11:17 PM
Forget the RPG, I want THIS - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=326776075

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/326776000/326776075/pix590995716.jpg

Yeah?

Well forget the RPG AND what you want...I actually have THIS!

http://www.demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/1209/have-cannon-cannon-gun-facepalm-funny-weapon-demotivational-posters-1346810862.jpg (http://www.demotivationalposters.net/have-cannon-cannon-gun-facepalm-funny-weapon-demotivational-posters-158676.html)

:evil:

xquercus
January 29, 2013, 04:14 PM
About two years ago one of the dealers with a good online presence (wish I could remember who) had an RPG with launcher for sale. Maybe someone on this site will recall the details of the listing as it was somewhat unusual. The description said that it originated from Lebanon if I recall correctly. I believe the asking price was $13k. My question at the time was how a live DD was legally imported into the US.

G21NE
February 6, 2013, 02:36 PM
Depends on State laws. Federally, machine guns are registered under the National Firearms Act of '34, and to be legally transferable for civilian ownership it needs to have been registered before the registry closed in 1986. $200 tax and a Form 4 to register.

For an RPG, it'd be an Explosive Destructive Device... assuming it was legally imported, again, $200 and a Form 4.

Let's say you could get somebody to sell you an Abrams, roll-away, just as a thought experiment. The coaxial 7.62 and the commander's hatch gun would be illegal MG's and have to be scrapped, the main gun at greater than 1/2" bore and no sporting purpose is a Large Bore Destructive Device ($200 and a Form 4), and each shell is an Explosive DD (which means $200 and a Form 4 EACH). And, oh by the way, you ALSO have to make sure it's kosher under all State and Local laws too...

IANAL and I'm not even a meber of the NFA-owner club, but I've been following the subject ever since college, and hopefully this'll help you out a little.
Actually there are tank shells that are non-explosive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829#M829A3

A depleted uranium penetrator, but there may be issues with owning the uranium, even if it is depleted.............

AlexanderA
February 7, 2013, 10:02 AM
The short answer is that it's legally easier to get explosive ordnance than to get machine guns, because the registry for Destructive Devices was never closed. The practical problem is finding any explosive ordnance for sale. And of course, the wisdom (and sanity!) of keeping stuff like this around.

goon
February 10, 2013, 02:42 AM
Why not make some non-explosive practice rockets for the RPG?
Maybe something that would carry a chalk dust payload or something?
If you owned one, maybe you could rent it out and get the cost of shooting it yourself paid for.

AlexanderA
February 10, 2013, 10:10 AM
Why not make some non-explosive practice rockets for the RPG?

You could do that, but you'd have to keep the propellant charge to 4 ounces or less. Otherwise, the rocket would be a Destructive Device. Maybe someone more familiar with rockets can tell us what a 4 oz. charge can do.

goon
February 10, 2013, 03:55 PM
I will admit that all I know about rockets was learned through somewhat questionable practices as a teenager. But I would think that 4 ounces of propellant should be enough if you could keep the weight of the rocket low.
The RPG is the best to try this with I think - they are kind of simple and mostly like a big single shot muzzleloading gun that shoots rockets.

If you could build a replica without too much trouble and shoot it without each shot costing $200+, I would be up for one of the damn things. Going through the NFA process would be a PITA, but I have a clean background... so Why not? Sounds like great fun!
They could even get some news footage of me shooting it... It would give them something else to demonize for awhile...

gfanikf
May 5, 2013, 05:34 PM
The short answer is that it's legally easier to get explosive ordnance than to get machine guns, because the registry for Destructive Devices was never closed. The practical problem is finding any explosive ordnance for sale. And of course, the wisdom (and sanity!) of keeping stuff like this around.
My question is how can they be imported? Since unlike foreign MGs, foreign DD importation weren't cut off by the GCA.

Midwest
May 5, 2013, 06:05 PM
Is it possible to get a fireworks license to make professional fireworks and shoot some fireworks shells out of the RPG?

SharpsDressedMan
May 5, 2013, 07:08 PM
The real RPG rocket launchers have been available demilled as prescribed by BATF in the past. One could weld up, or repair, and re-register as a form one, manufactured weapon. It's the grenades that will break you, as even dummies are hard to find, and each one you made would require a $200 tax in addition to the cost of buying materials and labor. Buy a replica and hang it on the wall. It will cost you less, and be just about as practical.

Geno
May 5, 2013, 08:33 PM
What holster for an RPG?! Dang, if you have a negligent discharge with that bad boy, you're gonna have a very bad day! :D Forget the RPG and get a cannon.

Geno

Coop45
May 5, 2013, 09:00 PM
No boom, no fun!

flyingfeathers
May 6, 2013, 12:58 AM
Hunting with an Rpg pre cooked game

BigBoyToyz
May 7, 2013, 01:30 AM
If I was to go through the hassle of paying a 200 Tax for each Destructive Device, it would have to be for those Depleted Uranium RPG Rounds from the tv show Vice 2013! :evil:

Although sadly it would still be a waste of money because I couldnt even test fire one do to the radioactive fallout left behind that will kill people decades later! :banghead:

RetiredUSNChief
May 7, 2013, 10:33 AM
Although sadly it would still be a waste of money because I couldnt even test fire one do to the radioactive fallout left behind that will kill people decades later! :banghead:

Errr...

Not to nitpick, but...

(Yeah, I know...that's a prelude to nitpicking! :) )

With a half-life of nearly 4.5 BILLION years, U-238 is, for all practical purposes, a stable isotope. It's a low level Alpha emitter, too...

Which means you really don't have anything to worry about, fallout-wise.

Just sayin'...

;)

Queen_of_Thunder
May 7, 2013, 11:11 AM
A RPG is a dream purchase but finding someplace to fire it and the cost is way too much.

BigBoyToyz
May 7, 2013, 02:48 PM
Which means you really don't have anything to worry about, fallout-wise.


I dont care about any other country since I dont live there but perhaps these articles will explain what I mean.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/06-5
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/06/iraq-depleted-uranium-clean-up-contamination-spreads

RetiredUSNChief
May 8, 2013, 01:14 AM
I dont care about any other country since I dont live there but perhaps these articles will explain what I mean.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/06-5
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/06/iraq-depleted-uranium-clean-up-contamination-spreads

From one of those links:

"Imagine a far worse scenario. Terrorists acquire a million pounds of the deadly dust and scatter it in populated areas throughout the U.S. Hundreds of children report symptoms. Many acquire cancer and leukemia, suffering an early and painful death. Huge increases in severe birth defects are reported. Oncologists are overwhelmed. Soccer fields, sand lots and parks, traditional play areas for kids, are no longer safe. People lose their most basic freedom, the ability to go outside and safely breathe. Sounds worse than 9/11? Welcome to Iraq and Afghanistan."

"10 Years After Invasion, US Depleted Uranium Continues to Devastate Iraq"

"However, it can contaminate the environment, and has been linked to health problems in civilian populations. Iraqi doctors have reported increases in cancers, and an alleged rise in birth defects is under investigation by the World Health Organisation and the Iraqi Ministry of Health."

Let's just say this is a wee bit overstated.

"Deadly dust" and "devastate" is deliberately emotive wording and is quite overhyping both the chemical toxicity and the radiological concerns with U-238. I would treat Uranium exposure like I would any other toxic metal exposure. Including the Lead exposure we're all exposed to as people who own/shoot firearms. Basic cleanliness and whatnot.

And "alleged rise" is the key phrase in the statement about increased birth defects and cancers. If they're seeing a statistically noticable increase in cancers and such, then it's very likely not due to this for a variety of reasons.


Not saying that people should ignore Uranium exposure hazards...just put them into proper perspective. Certainly it's nowhere near the hazard level of nuclear fallout.

:):)

xquercus
May 8, 2013, 12:31 PM
The health issues related to uranium are primarily related to its chemical toxicity, not it's weak alpha emissions. Inhalation/ingestion of uranium dust is certainly a radiological concern, but not nearly as concerning as radium, radon, iodine-131, cobalt-60 or any of the short lived isotopes used in medicine or industry. A speck of radium salt large enough to see is more of a radiological health risk than a kilogram of uranium oxide (yellow cake). For purposes unrelated to firearms, I keep tens of grams of uranium oxides and metal in my home and it is perfectly safe (and legal for everyone under a general NRC license). It would NOT be safe to keep ANY visible amount of the other materials mentioned except as a specially prepared sealed source. As far as cobalt-60, any significant quantity would be stored in a container shielded with -- you guessed it -- uranium. As far as the chemical toxicity of uranium, it's in the same ballpark as many of the heavy metals such as lead. Anyone who has been outside, especially in a part of the world where radon inside homes is a concern, has inhaled lots of dust containing mixed uranium oxides.

RetiredUSNChief
May 8, 2013, 04:09 PM
Heaven forbid you have C-60, my friend. That's a heck of a penetrating gamma emitter!

:):)

Nuclear
May 8, 2013, 05:48 PM
Yeah the typical banana is more radioactive than depleted Uranium. Now if you vaporize the outside oxide layer and breathe in (or otherwise ingest) the heavy metal, it will make you sick. Duh.

Carl N. Brown
May 8, 2013, 09:49 PM
This thread reminds me of Emilio Estavez in Maximum Overdrive firing a M72A1 LAW from the hip at semi-trucks possessed by alien intelligence.

I believe they used Estes model rockets. I wonder if a LAW tube (legal since reloads were never manufactured) could be rigged to fire model rockets?

Sebastian the Ibis
May 8, 2013, 10:49 PM
In 2005, when I was young, dumb and ......, I had the opportunity to shoot an RPG at a cow for $200.00. I decided that pulling the trigger on Vietnam era, military reject, explosives thousands of miles from the closest western hospital was probably not a wise idea. I don't think I would do it now either.

Quiet
May 8, 2013, 11:16 PM
Yes, it is legal under Federal laws to own a RPG.
RPG launcher = Destructive Device ($200 tax stamp)
Each HE or HEAT warhead/round = Destructive Device ($200 tax stamp)

Loyalist Dave
May 9, 2013, 08:58 AM
Is an RPG, when one does not own nor possess ammunition a "destructive device"? It's a launcher, not the actual device causing the destruction. Would one need the federal paperwork to own a WWII explosives detonator, while not having any explosives nor caps to go with it? Is the RPG launcher not something along the same lines, harmless without the actual moving part i.e. the rocket? OR is it viewed the same as a tank with a working cannon, and even though you might not own a 75mm shell for your cannon on your M4 Sherman, you still need to have the paperwork for the cannon if it could fire such a shell?

LD

Carl N. Brown
May 9, 2013, 09:44 AM
My understanding is that, since rockets were made and thus available black market, the RPG and the traditional U.S. bazooka are controlled items.

Since the LAW tubes are disposable (no extra military rockets made for reloads, shoot once and throw away), the LAW tubes are treated as inert curios or collector's items (usable as ornaments but not as weapons).

atomchaser
May 9, 2013, 10:57 AM
DU isn't much of a hazard, but it would probably require a State or NRC radioactive materials license if it was in the form of a RPG round. Your chances of getting a license would be pretty slim if it included firing the round.

JShirley
May 9, 2013, 10:02 PM
There was a device holding a LOT of .22 LR rounds that fit in 40mm launchers. I believe a primer set them all off.

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcxeJ0QyWDI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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