First load...


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Inebriated
January 18, 2013, 02:59 AM
So I just got a press, and all the other goodies, and I'm going to be doing my first load tomorrow. I'll be doing .45 ACP with Alliant Power Pistol, CCI 300 primers, and Berry's 230gr RN plated bullets. I'm looking at Alliant's website for their load data, since they're using Power Pistol and CCI 300 primers, but they're using a 230gr FMJ, and they say to use 8.3 grains of powder. Now I know everyone says to start at about 5% of the published load, and go from there, but I want to know if I should treat plated bullets any differently? I was planning on going with 7.9 grains (5% reduction), but I just want to know what you guys would do?

Thanks!

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ColtPythonElite
January 18, 2013, 03:18 AM
I would start at the minimum load shown for a jacketed bullet.

Inebriated
January 18, 2013, 03:24 AM
They only showed the one load for a 230grn jacketed bullet and PP powder.

I am trying to find a loading manual, but I'd like to have the chance to look at one first... I can't find anything local, though.

ArchAngelCD
January 18, 2013, 03:34 AM
The loads on the Alliant site are Max charge weights. To get the starting charge weights you need to reduce the charge by 10%, not 5%. Like said above, with a plated bullet use the starting charge for a jacketed bullet which in this case is 7.5gr.

Just to throw a wrench in things, Hornady's new manual lists a charge range of 5.5gr to 7.1gr PP under a 230gr FMJ bullet. Lyman #49 lists a range of 6.5gr to 7.3gr PP.

Inebriated
January 18, 2013, 04:49 AM
Thanks ArchAngel!

So do you think it would be prudent to start at Hornady's 5.5, and go from there? It's only a plinking load, so as long as the slide will cycle, I'm ok.

Magnum Shooter
January 18, 2013, 10:29 AM
Alliant lists 7.4g of PP for 230g gold dot HP as the max. Subtracting 10% gives a 6.6g starting load. This is really close to Lyman’s 6.5g starting load and 7.3g max. So according to 2 sources 6.5-6.6g is the starting point and where I would recommend for Berry‘s 230g plated.

Inebriated
January 18, 2013, 03:05 PM
Ok, that sounds good. Thanks guys, helped a lot!

ljnowell
January 18, 2013, 03:09 PM
I would start at the minimum load shown for a jacketed bullet.

I wouldnt. In many cases a minimum load wont even cycle the slide of a semi-auto. I always start midway through the data and work my way up. I have no desire to waste time and components on loads that wont cycle the gun.

OP I use 7.0gr of PP with a 230gr FMJ. Plenty of pop(like pp usually delivers) and mucho accurate.

Inebriated
February 16, 2013, 07:54 PM
So I FINALLY got the stuff set up, and am beginning tonight.

Using Handloads.com's recommendation for PP and a 230 grain bullet, I would use 7.2 gr.

Starting at 10% below would be 6.5 gr. So right inline with everything else posted here.

Now I'll probably do 10 or so rounds at 6.5 gr, and another 10 or so at 6.8 gr, then hit the range, and see if they'll cycle. It's my understanding that PP can produce some fairly high velocities, at rather low pressure, so hopefully, it'll be able to cycle the guns with reduced loads.

I'm not looking for max velocity or anything like that, just something that will let me get to the range, and not make me have to wait for ammo to hit the shelves.

BYJO4
February 16, 2013, 10:49 PM
I think you made a good decision. After shooting your 2 different test loads, you will have a good idea of where to go from there.

ArchAngelCD
February 16, 2013, 11:07 PM
Thanks ArchAngel!

So do you think it would be prudent to start at Hornady's 5.5, and go from there? It's only a plinking load, so as long as the slide will cycle, I'm ok.
Actually, if it were me I wouldn't be using Power Pistol at all for the .45 Auto. That cartridge is a fairly low pressure round and PP is a medium slow burn powder more suited for the 9mm and 40 &W IMO. I use mostly W231/HP-38 for the 45 Auto.

ljnowell
February 16, 2013, 11:34 PM
Actually, if it were me I wouldn't be using Power Pistol at all for the .45 Auto. That cartridge is a fairly low pressure round and PP is a medium slow burn powder more suited for the 9mm and 40 &W IMO. I use mostly W231/HP-38 for the 45 Auto.


I have had terrific success with Power pistol and jacketed bullets in 45acp. When loaded to near max it burns very clean in all of my loadings and provides good velocity. Its not a download it to mouse fart load powder, no doubt, but it works just fine when loaded as intended.

Inebriated
February 16, 2013, 11:36 PM
So I've got 6.3 grains under a 230 grain bullet right now, and I'll see how they do tomorrow. Kinda looking forward to it.

One problem, though. Three of the 15 I did have the primer seated a little shallow. The other 12 will sit flat on a table, but these three won't.

Are these safe to shoot as-is? I doubt it, but it's worth asking.

ArchAngelCD
February 16, 2013, 11:48 PM
You can shoot them and they will fire if the primers are seated enough to set them off instead of the firing pin energy being used to complete the seating.

If they don't fire try a second time, they will usually fire the second time around.

Inebriated
February 16, 2013, 11:49 PM
Oh, ok... good to know. Thanks!

FROGO207
February 17, 2013, 07:25 AM
You should get in the habit of running your finger across the head of the round after priming to make sure you have no high primers. Makes it easy to correct then. That is if you prime off the press (no progressives)--I recommend it highly and have been doing it this way for years. I usually do all the case prep on large batches and prime in large batches also. Then charging and seating/crimping are fast and easy chore when ammo is needed. I will say with the shortage of primers I do not prime up 5K ahead now like I used to. I usually keep it to 200 or so ahead now till primers re appear.:(

Inebriated
February 17, 2013, 11:56 AM
It's progressive. I'm trying to remember to get the ram ALL the way up.

I've only got about 20 rounds loaded, to date, but I did notice the ones that had a forceful push at the end, had fully-seated primers. I think I was stopping once I heard the brass at the first stage get decapped.

Everything is running good, otherwise. Pulled several random ones to check charge, and they were consistent. So I'll just have to be sure that I'm working the ram correctly.

mdi
February 17, 2013, 12:13 PM
I would start at the minimum load shown for a jacketed bullet.
Yep, use starting loads. Also look at what Berry's says about reloading their plated bullets...

Inebriated
February 17, 2013, 08:23 PM
Well good news... the loads with 6.4 grains worked perfect in my Glocks and Sigs...

Going to start working my way through all these bullets, now. Also going to be making sure I give the ram a solid push at the end, to seat the primers.

Tomorrow, I start 9mm.

Inebriated
February 17, 2013, 11:47 PM
Good news part 2...

200 rounds completed, spot checks and pulled bullets all show a consistent OAL, consistent primer seating depth, and consistent charge, with about .3gr variation, but I'm chalking that up to the scale I'm using, as well as some powder sticking to the case when I dump it... regardless, still under the max. If I were pushing max loads, I'd be more precise.

Fishslayer
February 19, 2013, 02:40 PM
So I FINALLY got the stuff set up, and am beginning tonight.

Using Handloads.com's recommendation for PP and a 230 grain bullet, I would use 7.2 gr.


I use Handloads.com all the time, bUT... very important to bounce any data there against other sources just to be sure. A lot of that data is user submitted & some people are quite a bit more adventurous than I.:o With experience you will develope a feel for what's right & what's "HUH?!" I even double check Alliant's website data. Some of their numbers just seem kind of off the wall to me.

Inebriated
February 21, 2013, 05:31 PM
Yeah, I'm using other posts I'm seeing for reference. I'm buying a manual tomorrow anyway, just to have on-hand.

Also, some bad news. Found that the Lee disc powder measure hasn't been throwing consistent charges... Kind of sucks, but I've read that it requires some breaking in? I'm going to see what I can do to get it to throw a consistent charge, but I did have to pull those 200 bullets, because I really don't trust it. Some have the 6.4 grains, some have none, and others have somewhere in between.

Certaindeaf
February 21, 2013, 07:37 PM
Yeah, I'm using other posts I'm seeing for reference. I'm buying a manual tomorrow anyway, just to have on-hand.

Also, some bad news. Found that the Lee disc powder measure hasn't been throwing consistent charges... Kind of sucks, but I've read that it requires some breaking in? I'm going to see what I can do to get it to throw a consistent charge, but I did have to pull those 200 bullets, because I really don't trust it. Some have the 6.4 grains, some have none, and others have somewhere in between.
Whoa Nelly. It's really time to re-think your process, namely visually inspecting each and every case for a proper charge.

rcmodel
February 21, 2013, 07:45 PM
Kind of sucks, but I've read that it requires some breaking in?Nonsense.

No powder measure requires breaking in to work right.

Some metal ones may need the packing oil cleaned out of them before you ever use them.

But the all plastic Lee isn't one of them.

You are doing something very wrong, maybe even two or three things wrong.

What they are is hard to say.

But loading 200 rounds with no powder in some of them is right up there near the top.

If I were pushing max loads, I'd be more precise.That would be #2.

rc

Inebriated
February 21, 2013, 07:48 PM
Whoa Nelly. It's really time to re-think your process, namely visually inspecting each and every case for a proper charge.

No kidding. I was checking them every couple, and they seemed consistent, but after I noticed one get through without any powder, I stopped and checked some others... Not sure what to do about it. I'm going to figure out what's up with the powder measure, and see why it won't be consistent. Obviously checking helps with seeing IF there's powder, but it's hard to tell if it's a full charge.

Either way, I'm in no hurry to get to the range.

Certaindeaf
February 21, 2013, 07:57 PM
It sounds like you've somehow put the disk and or hopper in wrong or something.

Armymutt
February 21, 2013, 08:00 PM
I use a Hornady progressive and noticed that if the primers aren't fully seated, there is enough friction to interfere with, and sometimes even stop the cycling of the press.

Inebriated
February 21, 2013, 08:03 PM
Certaindeaf, I don't think so. The first 50 or so all had full charge, and then it started getting inconsistent after that. But it is a fairly rickety-looking system... wouldn't be surprised if something got knocked out of place with it. I haven't had an opportunity to really look at it and figure out what's up.

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