Burlington VT Bans AR's - RANGE denies Local PD in protest


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mcdonl
January 18, 2013, 06:18 AM
Wow... this from a state with no gun laws and no CCW permit required to carry.

Unreal...

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Gun-range-bans-Burlington-police-after-vote-.html

BURLINGTON, Vt. A Vermont firing range is telling the Burlington Police Department its officers are unwelcome to train after the City Council advanced a measure to ban semi-automatic rifles and large-capacity magazines.


READ MORE at BurlingtonFreePress.com

The Burlington Free Press reports a letter from the board chairman of the Lamoille Valley Fish and Game Club says it can no longer support the city with such a "prejudice" against the club and a threat to constitutional freedoms. It has voted to suspend the city's use of its range for law enforcement.

The City Council voted earlier this month to craft the ban. It would have to go before voters and then legislators.

Burlington Police Chief Michael Schirling said the city's exclusion from the range likely would affect how and when officers train with firearms.

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trueg50
January 18, 2013, 06:39 AM
the joke around here is "The nice thing about Burlington is that it is so close to VT!"

Burlington really isn't Vermont in spirit or make up. Vermonters are nice people, but Burlington is about the only place people carry concealed weapons.

This should hopefully be shot down in general vote (it also violates out state constitution), to it might not be legal at all.

For those that don't know, the Council wanted to ban ALL semi-auto firearms from the city.

mcdonl
January 18, 2013, 06:43 AM
Trueg50, same thing in Maine... York County (Where I live, but inland rural not Kennebunk Port) and Cumberland County are very liberal but the rest of Maine is not.

And, as of now our delegates are not in support of any bans but I expect to see several hit Augusta today.

As far as the range doing what they are doing... Good for them. I would not support the City either.

OT - Were you there long enough to remember the club "texas" in Burlington? It *was* a fun little city 20 years ago...

fxstchewy
January 18, 2013, 08:26 AM
More knee jerk feel good crap that does absolutely.....nothing.

heavydluxe
January 18, 2013, 10:37 AM
As a Vermonter, though, I am of the opinion that the tide is shifting. If you're reading this in the Green Mountain State, call you representatives.

http://www.reformer.com/latestnews/ci_22390000/vermont-lawmakers-consider-assault-rifle-ban


I'm honestly amazed, and thankful, that our state's political makeup has not futzed with our gun rights before this. But, the times they are a'changin'.

Trent
January 18, 2013, 11:57 AM
These show-downs are escalating in frequency, and occurring across all levels of government.

State V. Federal
City V. State
County V. State
County V. Federal
State V. State ("Come to Texas, NY Gun owners!")
City V. Private organizations

Etc.

"May you live in interesting times"

^^ ancient Chinese curse.

greenmtnguy
January 18, 2013, 12:03 PM
Burllington has indeed been going ever more liberal every year. It is kinda becoming like the NYC of Vermont, as far as politics versus the rest of the state are concerned. Sad. I lived many years in Vermont, but it is fast becoming something that I no longer recognize from the state I gew up in

hak
January 18, 2013, 12:32 PM
the article didn't list the gun store's name. it mentions a club ("Lamoille Valley Fish and Game Club ")


I'd like to buy something from them, even trivial like ammo or cleaning kit to support them.

they chose with their scruples and I commend that.

Ehtereon11B
January 18, 2013, 02:41 PM
I went to school in VT and always refer to Burlington as the "Hippy Mecca" or "Liberal Mecca." Unfortunately Burlington has a large population and political base as it might sway voters toward that side, just like a similar neighboring state...NY. When you look at the rest of the state, there are about 6 weapons (rifle, shotgun, handgun) for every person in the state.

Fish Miner
January 18, 2013, 04:01 PM
Things were different in Maine when I lived there as a kid. Visiting my Mom this XMas, I was greeted by her liberal neighbor on the ferry reminding me how important gun control is. We had crossed swords on the 2A before, and apparently she was still wound up about it. Portland has become a liberal strong hold and is threatening to ruin the rest of the state. Just shows you that in the NE, the one big city in each state can pull all the weight. NYC, Burlington, Portland etc...

Thanks god I live in Florida now. And I ain't ever heading back up there for anything other then a couple days of lobster and chowdah.

Shadow 7D
January 18, 2013, 04:15 PM
something of a historic note
BOTH Maine and Vermont underwent a 'liberal colonization' as they were seen as not being in line with the rest of the eastern sea board, Had more than a few friends when I was in the army from, usually when things like this was brought up, the would just curse and say 'Might as well be New York (city)'

the population was small enough that 10-20 thousand people would be more than enough to control the politics of the state.

LemmyCaution
January 18, 2013, 04:28 PM
This ban will be shot down in court immediately.

It is settled case law that Vermont has state preemption of local firearms laws.

Additionally, this ban clearly violates the state constitution in case law that was settled in the same case that established preemption.

The relevant case is State v. Rosenthal.

http://www.guncite.com/court/state/55a610.html

heavydluxe
January 18, 2013, 06:04 PM
the article didn't list the gun store's name. it mentions a club ("Lamoille Valley Fish and Game Club")

You could certainly contact the club (http://www.lvfgc.org/) and donate to them, maybe become a member in principle, or ask them where you could direct some funds to support them. Perhaps the VT Rifle & Pistol Association?

It is settled case law that Vermont has state preemption of local firearms laws.

Yeah, but the problem is the state is heading down the same road.

ZeSpectre
January 18, 2013, 06:07 PM
Something sure is different. I don't know if the spikes on the fence got sharper or what but there sure don't seem to be as many fence sitters this time around and a whole lot less "oh they won't come for my ....."

LemmyCaution
January 18, 2013, 06:11 PM
Yeah, but the problem is the state is heading down the same road.

The state will need to amend its constitution if it wishes to go down that road.

This is not so casually done.

bigdipper
January 18, 2013, 06:14 PM
I dont think it could make it out of burlington. P.S. just showed my dad the bill from Alaska and i think hes going to propose it (hes a state senator)

MachIVshooter
January 18, 2013, 06:16 PM
I lived many years in Vermont, but it is fast becoming something that I no longer recognize from the state I gew up in

I feel the same way here in CO. Most of the state is still very conservative/libertarian and pro-RKBA, but the densely populated liberal bastions are ruining it.

LemmyCaution
January 18, 2013, 06:23 PM
The mayor of Burlington, Vermont was in my high school class. Even 25 years ago it was clear that he had a future in elitist Democratic party politics.

He was class president. I mocked him from the left wing even then.

hso
January 18, 2013, 06:29 PM
I wonder about the PR value in cutting the LEOs off for a proposed piece of legislation that won't even survive.

I think it would have been much better to point out that the members of the club that hosts the police training would end up having to close the range if the bill passed while it was struck down and that would leave the police nowhere to train.

LemmyCaution
January 18, 2013, 06:36 PM
I wonder about the PR value in cutting the LEOs off for a proposed piece of legislation that won't even survive.

I think it would have been much better to point out that the members of the club that hosts the police training would end up having to close the range if the bill passed while it was struck down and that would leave the police nowhere to train.

The range is not actually in Burlington. There are no ranges in Burlington. The police department has to go out side the city in order to train. The range would not be affected by the ban. They are simply taking a principled stand against the restriction on the RKBA.

Tinpig
January 18, 2013, 07:48 PM
A long-time customer saw the NRA and Mass. GOAL stickers on the back of my truck and said, "Oh, I didn't think you were one of those!"

Yup, he lives in Burlington. I think he'd have been fine with a NAMBLA sticker.

Not anything like the rest of Vermont.

PavePusher
January 18, 2013, 08:16 PM
Accuracy is important. Nothing has been banned yet. The City council said they were going to create a ban (hasn't happened yet) and people started giving push-back. Good. Hopefully this means it won't pass the council. Even if it did, it almost certainly wouldn't be approved by the state legislature, and wouldn't pass state Constitutional review in the court.

2 Wild Dueces
January 18, 2013, 08:28 PM
Maybe the club should require the city to make a large donation to the NRA in order to use their range? ;)

Axel Larson
January 18, 2013, 08:49 PM
Yeah, as I Vermonter I can say Burlington is not Vermont actually Chittenden county really isn't. I had a follow student from Essex that was surprised when myself and another student mentioned we have farms in the state.
Also since my follow Vermonters are following this thread not to derail but who is going to the capital tomorrow for noon. You can just pm so the thread does not get derailed, if you want more information on it.

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