American College of Surgeons sides with the Gun Banners.


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Balrog
January 18, 2013, 08:59 AM
The American College of Surgeons, in an amazing emotional, non-scientific knee jerk reaction to the recent shootings, has revised its policy statement on guns, and is now in full support of Obama's anti-gun agenda. The new policy calls for a ban on so-called assault weapons and high capacity magazines, as well as calls for a mandatory background check on private gun sales.

The American College of Surgeons is the leading organization in the US representing surgeons. It has previously held fairly conservative views, at least compared to more liberal medical groups like the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics. It has always stood by the idea of advancing medicine through science, until now. Now, it seems to have abandoned reason and scientific evidence in favor of emotion and politics. We have already had an assault weapon ban in the US, and the FBI concluded that it made no impact on crime. There is no scientific evidence that would support the idea that a new AWB would be more effective.

The ACS made this decision arbitrarily. The decision was made by its Officers and Board of Regents. The rank and file membership was not consulted, there was no vote from the membership, nor was their even any discussion that such a policy statement was being contemplated. There was no protest movement from within the ACS, because this decision was made behind closed doors and without the consent of the membership.

The policy statement is:

[ST-12] Statement on Firearm Injuries

(Revised January 2013)

[by the American College of Surgeons]

The following revised Statement on Firearm Injuries was approved in January 2013 by the Officers of the American College of Surgeons and its Board of Regents. It replaces the February 2000 statement that was developed by the Committee on Trauma and approved by the College's Board of Regents—that statement replaced an initial statement addressing firearm injuries developed in 1991.

Because violence inflicted by guns continues to be a daily event in the United States and mass casualties involving firearms threaten the health and safety of the public, the American College of Surgeons supports:

Legislation banning civilian access to assault weapons, large ammunition clips, and munitions designed for military and law enforcement agencies.
Enhancing mandatory background checks for the purchase of firearms to include gun shows and auctions.
Ensuring that health care professionals can fulfill their role in preventing firearm injuries by health screening, patient counseling, and referral to mental health services for those with behavioral medical conditions.
Developing and promoting proactive programs directed at improving safe gun storage and the teaching of non-violent conflict resolution for a culture that often glorifies guns and violence in media and gaming.
Evidence-based research on firearm injury and the creation of a national firearm injury database to inform federal health policy.

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radiotom
January 18, 2013, 09:12 AM
Good thing our hi-cap magazines are still safe.

fxstchewy
January 18, 2013, 09:22 AM
Hate to say this but....how many do the surgeons kill per year?

Balrog
January 18, 2013, 10:09 AM
Here is my rebuttal letter:

I have been a member of the American College of Surgeons since 1997. I have previously considered it an honor and a privilege to be part of this group. Today, I am quite unhappy with the group. I have recently become aware of the fact that the ACS has issued a politically based policy statement that supports banning certain weapons which have previously been protected by the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution.

I am at a loss as to why the ACS would make such a politically based, non-scientific policy statement. The ACS should not engage in controversial political topics such as this. The leadership of the ACS does not have the legal and political expertise to make recommendations such as this. I do not feel the leadership understands the Constitutional implications of such a recommendation. Additionally, we have already had an assault weapon ban in the US which expired in 2004. By FBI statistics, this ban made no significant impact on crime. Why would the ACS therefore recommend another? This is not an evidence based recommendation. You degrade the reputation of surgeons as evidence based decision makers by engaging in absurd policy statements like this.

The decision to engage in left wing political pandering such as this will surely fragment the American College of Surgeons. If it continues with this kind of non-sense, it will lose membership. I find it unacceptable that the Board of Regents would issue a divisive political statement on behalf of the organization. The rank and file membership had no vote in this. We do not consent. We did not even realize the ACS was considering such a recommendation. We have had no input in this process.

I would request that the American College of Surgeons immediately and unequivocally rescind this policy statement and apologize to its membership.

Also, please be aware that in order to combat the nonsense that the ACS has chosen to engage, I am donating the equivalent of several years worth of ACS dues to the National Rifle Association today. The National Rifle Association reflects my views on the Second Amendment, and the American College of Surgeons clearly does not.

I would request that this email be forwarded to the Chairman, the Board of Regents, the Board of Governors, and the Officers of the American College of Surgeons

Sincerely,"

Rob G
January 18, 2013, 10:17 AM
Evidence-based research on firearm injury and the creation of a national firearm injury database to inform federal health policy.

As Balrog has already pointed out in his excellent letter the above statement, which is part of their official position, is actually completely contrary to what they the just did. Evidence-based research would have shown that the measures they're supporting would not have a significant positive impact on the health and safety of the public.

Godsgunman
January 18, 2013, 10:46 AM
If any of this had even the slightest particulate of truth then why hasn't the ACS called for a ban on automobiles since the vast majority of deaths and injuries seen by hospitals and surgeons are from automobile accidents NOT guns those are way down on the list. Go get your paddle this craps deep.

BamAlmighty
January 18, 2013, 03:19 PM
funny considering how many people die from doctor malpractice every year.

JFtheGR8
January 18, 2013, 03:38 PM
With their line of reasoning then automobiles should be banned as well.


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12131
January 18, 2013, 03:45 PM
There's a reason I don't belong to any of these medical organizations.:rolleyes:

Queen_of_Thunder
January 18, 2013, 08:25 PM
Of course anything to cover up the 100,000 plus who die every year from mistakes in hospitals.

docnyt
January 19, 2013, 03:04 AM
Nice work, Balrog. If the AMA makes a similar statement, I'm rescinding my membership and donating to the NRA as well, even though I just did.

Alaska444
January 19, 2013, 03:17 AM
Of course anything to cover up the 100,000 plus who die every year from mistakes in hospitals.
It is easy to call a bad outcome in medicine a "mistake" after the fact when in fact it is simply a bad outcome. At least while I was practicing, we didn't see horrible mistakes as frequent as the press would like you to think we do. Medicine is a very humbling profession. Compare the outcomes of having no doctors or you have to pay out of your own pocket like the majority of people in this world and then look at what we have. No doubt, money means more than patients today, but indeed, lot's of very intelligent and talented and hard working folks in our hospitals, and thank the Lord for that.

in any case, the various medical societies take political stances often at odds with most of the medical doctors that they allegedly represent. I got out of the AMA and ACP a long time ago. Just like the AARP is supposed to represent senior citizens, all of these organizations have more in common with each other than they do with their members.

Swampman
January 19, 2013, 07:56 AM
I know several surgeons and not one of them is dumb enough to think that the proposed legislation will do anything except to turn huge numbers of formerly law abiding citizens into criminals.
Surgeons tend to be intelligent, practical people, but unfortunately, once they move up high enough in their profession to get on a stage and decide to become "political", they start to behave like former street cops that have moved up to chief.

Almost no real street cops support anti gun legislation, because in our jobs, we see what really causes crime, and it's definitely NOT inanimate objects. It's too bad, but unfortunately when cops move up the ladder enough that they can get in the newspaper without actually doing anything worthwhile or productive, they get addicted to it and this leads to idiotic proclamations like those regularly put out by the International Association of Chiefs of Police. We call this terrible disease cerebral rectumosis.

I'd be willing to bet that quite a few members of the American College of Surgeons suffer from exactly the same disorder...

PRM
January 19, 2013, 08:16 AM
Good thing our hi-cap magazines are still safe

Nothing is safe. Obama has four years and no thoughts about re-election. 2014 is critical. If the house goes to the Senate - they will ram gun control down American's throat the same was they did Obamacare. Too soon do people forget their Mantra "Yes We Can."

1. They don't care about dividing the country - its how they win.

2. They want to change the Constitution - it doesn't fit a socialists agenda.

3. They don't care about your rights.

The fight is in Congress and that small body of politicians who will either hold the line or lay the Constitution along with our guns on the sacrificial alter of Obamanation.

Balrog
January 19, 2013, 08:35 AM
If the AMA makes a similar statement, I'm rescinding my membership and donating to the NRA as well, even though I just did.


They already have, multiple times. I withdrew membership in the AMA when they supported the first AWB and declared handguns to be a public health crisis, and called for banning them. The AMA is a left wing organization and less than half of US doctors are members. I encourage you to immediately resign membership.

guyfromohio
January 19, 2013, 08:37 AM
Insured people generally aren't being shot.

Baba Louie
January 19, 2013, 08:39 AM
One wonders if the ACS is fine with and done dealing with the situation known as the Affordable Healthcare Act such that they have time to join in with firearm control... or is it that they see one affecting the other and are getting a head start on the program?

I am quite sure that surgeons have saved many lives of those who have been shot and that their actions do keep the US death toll down by a large degree when compared to days of yore. I presume that to be a "good thing" as some percentage of those GSWs were done to innocent lives, while a larger percentage of their clientele might come from those who are somewhat criminal in their behavior (but I personally do not know that to be a fact), who, once patched up will be back out doing the same old same old.

Should the gun banners succeed, the ACS can then go after knife bans because history shows angry people will use whatever tool is at hand to inflict damage, and again, I would presume that "Assault" knives will follow in the footsteps of any firearms banned or removed from our society.

Very nice letter Balrog. Hope it gets through to someone in charge, but would not want to hold my breath awaiting a change of policy/heart.

SaxonPig
January 19, 2013, 10:15 AM
The AMA and the medical profession in general has long pushed for gun control.

I simply point out to these dolts that more people are killed by medical malpractice each year than are killed with guns. Usually shuts up the morons.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 19, 2013, 11:25 AM
It is easy to call a bad outcome in medicine a "mistake" after the fact when in fact it is simply a bad outcome. At least while I was practicing, we didn't see horrible mistakes as frequent as the press would like you to think we do. Medicine is a very humbling profession. Compare the outcomes of having no doctors or you have to pay out of your own pocket like the majority of people in this world and then look at what we have. No doubt, money means more than patients today, but indeed, lot's of very intelligent and talented and hard working folks in our hospitals, and thank the Lord for that.

in any case, the various medical societies take political stances often at odds with most of the medical doctors that they allegedly represent. I got out of the AMA and ACP a long time ago. Just like the AARP is supposed to represent senior citizens, all of these organizations have more in common with each other than they do with their members.
That just the hospitals not all of these offices,surgical centers and such. Not to mention the mistakes that dont result in death but destruction of patient's lives. One would hope they would clean up their act before forcing an agenda on others who object to that agenda.

Alaska444
January 19, 2013, 07:02 PM
They already have, multiple times. I withdrew membership in the AMA when they supported the first AWB and declared handguns to be a public health crisis, and called for banning them. The AMA is a left wing organization and less than half of US doctors are members. I encourage you to immediately resign membership.
Already did years ago!!

Alaska444
January 19, 2013, 07:06 PM
That just the hospitals not all of these offices,surgical centers and such. Not to mention the mistakes that dont result in death but destruction of patient's lives. One would hope they would clean up their act before forcing an agenda on others who object to that agenda.
ObamaCare rescinds any thoughts of improving medical care in America. In addition, the brainwashed docs coming out of training today think that they are supposed to place more importance on saving money for the system than taking care of patients. You don't need overt rationing, the new docs already do it covertly through their training protocols.

In addition, with this mindset, they don't look as broadly into symptoms that could be a wide variety of illness. Instead, they focus on the top two or three causes so that they don't have to do as many tests. That may work in the majority of common cases, but it will indeed let many, many patients slip through the "cracks" in the system.

i am quite pessimistic about our health care future.

c1ogden
January 19, 2013, 10:45 PM
No surprise tere. I've never seen any doctor's group that wasn't elitist. Not to say that all doctors are, just their "professional" associations. They are probably just trying to smokescreen the fact that medical malpractice kills far more people than guns do.

CoGT3
January 20, 2013, 11:24 AM
Balrog,
As a fellow member, and soon be be former member, I am equally shocked if not surprised. I will be being sending them a letter shortly myself and pass this information around to as many members as I can contact. They pride themselves on moving to 'evidence based medicine' while this clearly the antithesis of any thing evidence based. Unfortunately the ACS is moving more and more toward the model of the AMA, a leadership comprised of ivory tower based surgeons who have lost touch of the real battles in the trenches. As second generation member who has seen the initials FACS after my father's name most of my life, this is very sad.



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