Did I sufficiently 'neuter' my preban 30 round AK mag?


PDA






jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 11:22 AM
I live in NY, and I think you all know what's happened here regarding standard capacity magazines...

I have a 30 round AK magazine (pre ban) that I have a sentimental attachment to.
Might sound weird, but I am from the UK and this magazine was part of my excercising of my newly-acquired Second Amendment rights upon moving to the States, so I'd like to keep it as a memento.

I put the magazine into a C-clamp and squashed the walls inwards, preventing the follower from moving. I also ground away both front and rear locking lugs and sawed off one of the feed lips.
There's no way this mag could ever be restored to working condition.

Do you think this is sufficient to count as being 'destroyed' for legal purposes?

If you enjoyed reading about "Did I sufficiently 'neuter' my preban 30 round AK mag?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sam1911
January 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
I think I'm going to cry. Or throw up. Or both.

...

But I don't even know if there's any legal definition for what constitutes deactivating or destroying a magazine yet. Or, for that matter, you very well may have been able to install a pop-rivet like they do in California so it will only hold 7 rounds and kept right on using it!

(Or wait out the grace period and see if SAF manages to get this law smacked down before destroying your own gear.)

Guess it's too late for that, though.

goldie
January 18, 2013, 11:40 AM
You should have had it put in a mold & had acrylic injected in there, making a paperweight out of it....

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 11:44 AM
Yeah, I felt a bit like crying and throwing up too.

It's only a magazine, if the ban gets overturned I can buy another.
I thought about trying to reduce the capacity, but it's not worth the hassle if I was ever in a situation where I had to explain it to a cop or in court.

WardenWolf
January 18, 2013, 11:45 AM
You're still allowed to have it if it's permanently blocked to 7 rounds. I'd have put a crossbar in to keep the follower from going down past a certain point and had it welded in place. Easiest solution.

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 11:56 AM
You should have had it put in a mold & had acrylic injected in there, making a paperweight out of it....
I did think of filling it with resin, but decided against it for two reasons; cost (resin is expensive) and reversibility.

If you had a magazine filled with resin and dropped it in a container of acetone for a few days, you'd most likely end up with a fully functioning 30 rounder.
After hearing the horror stories about NY cops duct-taping bayonets to rifles to prove that the ground-down bayonet lug still worked, I don't want to take any chances.

Sam1911
January 18, 2013, 11:59 AM
Then...why try the squashing plan? Any decent sheet metal shop, and many home handymen, could get that fixed well enough to make it feed rounds again. Really not even that hard to do.

If you're that worried about it, get rid of it. Otherwise bide your time and don't do anything else rash until you HAVE to.

rcmodel
January 18, 2013, 12:06 PM
I am from the UK and this magazine was part of my excercising of my newly-acquired Second Amendment rights upon moving to the StatesSO you squshed it in a vice??

Thats just sad right there!

You should have excercised your right to move to a free state, and kept your dang magazine in working condition as a reminder of the 2nd amendment rights you lost in NY!

rc

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 12:12 PM
That's why I also ground the locking lugs and feed lip away, so even if the mag was 'unsquashed', it still wouldn't work.

Part of the reason I acted so fast was because there seems to be no agreement on when the magazine actually becomes illegal. I've read 30, 60, and 90 days, a year, and that it hasn't been decided yet.

Imagine for instance turning up at a police station to turn a magazine in, and finding out you're a day late and getting locked up.

Remember, I'm from England. I've had to destroy/surrender my property before and I know how this stuff goes down.
I was in a gun shop in the UK once, and witnessed a guy who was on the verge of tears because he had been away on business for six months and arrived home to discover that he was a criminal for owning an air pistol.
The guy in the gun shop was telling him to saw it into pieces before handing it in at the police station.

I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad just because some cop drilled a pop rivet out of my magazine.

loose noose
January 18, 2013, 12:45 PM
Like rcmodel said, you should have moved to a free State, I'm fortunate in that I lived in the western U.S. most of my life, and being a U.S. citizen I would be damned to give up any of my rights to any politician come hell or high water!:mad:

Solo
January 18, 2013, 01:01 PM
You should have just labeled it "For debate purposes".

philobeddoe
January 18, 2013, 01:16 PM
Why don't you go onto some of the california firearms forums and see how we deal with restricted capacity magazine laws before you go crushing up your gear.

Trent
January 18, 2013, 01:23 PM
Ugh.

Reading this, I feel like someone kicked me in the jimmy.

:barf:

Arbor
January 18, 2013, 01:30 PM
If everyone gave up as easily as you, we would have no chance. This is not England.

shotgunjoel
January 18, 2013, 01:34 PM
Aren't old magazines grandfathered in? Otherwise wouldn't the state have to pay you fair market value for it upon confiscation? I don't know the wording of the law, but that's your Fifth Amendment right. "... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 01:39 PM
Not worth the risk for a $20 mag.
I don't want to be the test case to determine if a pop rivet or a welded pin is 'readily reversible'...

If I am ever able to legally own standard mags again, it's not like AK mags are hard to come by, there must be millions of them out there.

My question was really more about whether what I did to my mag is sufficient to cover my a** from a legal standpoint?

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 01:42 PM
If everyone gave up as easily as you, we would have no chance. This is not England.
I have a lot more to lose than you.
Until I can apply for citizenship in a couple of years, I am a Permanent Resident and thus I would risk being deported and not being able to be with my wife and kids ever again.

A $20 magazine is just not that important.

Hopefully this silly law will be overturned, and then I will buy another one.

Sam1911
January 18, 2013, 01:52 PM
My question was really more about whether what I did to my mag is sufficient to cover my a** from a legal standpoint?It certainly sounds like it, but without a legal definition of what "destroyed" means under that law in the state of NY, none of us can say for sure.

The best way to be sure is to get rid of it. If you WERE hassled over it (assuming the law stands as written after all challenges) it would be worth enough to you in legal fees to go to court and fight the charge that you'd wish you'd just sold or given it to someone from PA, VT, NH, or some other less restrictive state.

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 02:22 PM
Yeah, that's a good point.
Maybe I'll take it to a police station and get a receipt for it.

pseudonymity
January 18, 2013, 02:30 PM
That's why I also ground the locking lugs and feed lip away, so even if the mag was 'unsquashed', it still wouldn't work.

Part of the reason I acted so fast was because there seems to be no agreement on when the magazine actually becomes illegal. I've read 30, 60, and 90 days, a year, and that it hasn't been decided yet.

60 days as far as I can tell. Sec 46a of the act adds a new section 265.36 to PL265 which makes it a class A misdemeanor to possess a pre-ban 10+ mag that can "be readily restored or converted to accept" more than 10 rounds. I am not sure anybody knows what "readily" means at this point.

From a NY standpoint, a person that has a "reasonable belief" that the mag is not illegal and it notified by LE that it is illegal gets 30 days to "surrender or lawfully dispose" of it.

maskedman504
January 18, 2013, 02:34 PM
Has item that represents Freedom.

Lives where Freedom is illegal.

Destroys item representing Freedom.



I guess they won already.

Ashcons
January 18, 2013, 02:45 PM
I'm not going to criticize you for your decision. This situation just makes me sad, though. Maskedman504 said it well.

goldie
January 18, 2013, 02:50 PM
What i meant was an acrylic block like those ones they preserve butterflies,scorpions, & stuff in.

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 02:54 PM
What i meant was an acrylic block like those ones they preserve butterflies,scorpions, & stuff in.
Yeah I know, most of those types of resin dissolve in acetone, MEK etc.

ObsceneJesster
January 18, 2013, 02:57 PM
This is so much bull<deleted>. First off, a state should not tell someone that they need to destroy their already owned property. They should have grandfathered prior owners in.

Second off, why did you destroy your Mag? If my state (Maryland) tells me that I'm going to have to destroy all of my mags above a certain capacity. I will laugh in their faces. I will keep all of my high cap mags and the state will never know I have them. Are they going to come search my home for no apparent reason?

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 03:23 PM
They said it was ok to sell them out of state, but I wanted to keep this particular one as a memento so I chose to destroy it.
I don't want something in my house that could get me deported, no matter how slim the chance.
I think that this new law stinks, but I have no choice but to obey it and keep paying my NRA membership and hope it gets overturned.

blackrussian
January 18, 2013, 04:08 PM
I am still reading through the bill:
http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S2230-2013


"Section 38 of the bill amends Penal Law � 265.00(23) to ban all large
capacity magazines that have the capacity to hold more than ten rounds
of ammunition including those that were grandfathered in under the
original assault weapons ban and creates a new ban on magazines that
hold more than seven rounds of ammunition. Magazines that can hold
more than seven rounds but not more than ten rounds and are currently
possessed will be grandfathered in, but may only contain seven rounds
of ammunition. Exceptions are made for large capacity magazines that
are curios or relics."

blarby
January 18, 2013, 04:14 PM
Please don't destroy anymore mags.

There are enough of us here willing to put magazines up for storage until your rights are restored that if destruction is what you want to do- possibly losing it in a storage agreement has no potential losss for you- only gain.

You CAN still transfer- you have time.

FWIW- if your choice to settle in the US had anything in relation to personal rights afforded to you- you picked an extremely strange state to settle in.

jamesbeat
January 18, 2013, 05:47 PM
I won't be destroying any more mags, in fact this is the only one I have that holds more than 10 rounds. I just wanted to keep this particular one as a keepsake that's all.

I settled here to be with my wife, the rights are just a bonus.
We can't wait to get the hell out of here (NY) though...

USAF_Vet
January 18, 2013, 08:24 PM
You should have mailed it to NBC, care of David Gregory.

Tom from WNY
January 19, 2013, 12:47 AM
That's the sticky point, what is "readily convertible"? Does it mean disassembly at all? With tools? in the field with nothing more than a smalll punch? Does it mean that the "blocking device" must be permanently installed?

In NYS, that means caselaw. You would have to have a court rule on it. However, filling the magazine with a resin compound that requires immersion in solvent for 24 hours could meet that criteria. Another potential solution is disassembly; take it apart and store the parts separatley for the time being. From what I interpret this law to read, you may have had 90 days; but I am not too comfortable with that unless you have rather exclusive control of your property.

goldie
January 19, 2013, 01:17 PM
I think you acted in hast; this is from the faq section of nys.gov 2013 gun reform website;Q: What if I have a magazine that can contain more than ten rounds?
A: You can permanently modify the magazine so that it holds no more than ten rounds, responsibly discard it, or sell it to a dealer or an out of state purchaser by January 15, 2014. I would have either cut it down to 10 rounds or epoxied a permanent block under the follower,or cut down the spring & blocked the bottom half of the mag.Maybe you can bring it to a body shop & have it fixed?

Trent
January 21, 2013, 02:10 PM
Jamesbeat;

A reading suggestion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

If you enjoyed reading about "Did I sufficiently 'neuter' my preban 30 round AK mag?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!