Brainstorming alternatives to stop school Spree Killings


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Diamondback6
January 18, 2013, 09:52 PM
Mods, please move to Legaal, Activism or Activism Planning if appropriate.

Anyway, I'm in the very fortunate position of having an old friend and classmate now in the State Legislature, and it occurs to me that the best way to keep the Grabbers' hands off our guns in the wake of Sandy Hook is to demonstrate that we have much more effective and less-costly alternatives, and win the general public over with them. I've put together a "core" for a package based on a few ideas that made sense to me from various sources.

I also have a bit of a unique perspective, based on an experiment that the Chancellor of my college approved some friends in Security and I conducting back in my college days: The summer after Virginia Tech, on a Friday when the rest of the campus was shut down, they, a few friends among the faculty who could spare the time that I asked to assist and I did a Full Scale Exercise using airsoft, with the Chancellor and the Director of Security umpiring and me playing the role of the "Red Team". In a nutshell, in several run-throughs we found that other things can slow things down and buy time, but the only way to STOP a truly determined Spree Killer is swiftly applied overwhelming force, with equal or preferably superior firepower. Campus policy was that Security had to go with no more than Mace, and even though we made a persuasive case to the Chancellor for better equipment in our demonstration, his Executive Assistant (an anti, who liked neither the fact that there was an off-duty cop in Security NOR the fact that CCW permitholder students weren't preemptively expelled just for having that cred) somehow had some bureaucratic dirty tricks up her sleeve and killed any chance of implementation... (Though the policy at my alma mater, at least when I mustered out several Chancellorships ago, was that if you have a carry permit, as long as you keep it concealed so nobody finds out about it, or nobody raises a stink about it, you're golden, if somebody finds it AND complains then it goes or you go.)

Anyway, the foundation that I'd propose:

1. Harden classroom doors, more along the lines of an airliner cockpit door--door is more resistant to fire (at minimum I would advocate stop a .44 Magnum slug, ideally a .223, pipedream a .30-06 or .308 NATO), door is locked at all times and for entry you have to be buzzed in by the teacher, much like how in some apartments or hotels you have to be let into the building by a remote-unlock from the front desk.

2. At minimum, authorizing staff who desire to carry and have Concealed Weapons Permits to do so, subject to them taking additional training (though precisely what kind I'm not yet certain; this is a "conceptual framework" not a Ready-To-Introduce bill) and the restriction that they use a minimum caliber of .380 auto (or maybe 9x19mm Parabellum), they must keep it ON-BODY (no purse-carry) and CONCEALED so nobody knows who the armed staff are except maybe the principal. Alternate for the squeamish: establish an educational-institution variant of the Federal Flight Deck Officer armed-pilot program, with training and firearms run through the Marshal's Service.

3. We DO need to overhaul the mental-health system... both to make it easier to identify and manage the violently insane, but also to de-stigmatize clinical diagnoses and reassure the Good Guys that not only will voluntarily seeking help NOT cost them any rights, but shows them to be better people for recognizing what needs to be done and doing it. (I speak from personal experience on this, living with Asperger's; when I first started serious training I had serious worries about how it would affect my eligibility for a carry permit, and in reply one of the cops who trained me gave what I consider some of the highest praise I've ever received, telling me that after completing standard police training he would be quite comfortable swearing me in as a member of his department. Though I know there ARE people who are like "Autistic? With a gun? *empties bladder and bowels*") I do not know HOW to fix it, but the first stage of remedying a problem is recognizing that it exists, and I think any sane person is at that point. Perhaps penalties for obstruction of diagnosis and treatment, since Peter Lanza spent a great deal of money trying to cover up that he had a not-quite-right son, and even now that $1-million-plus annual salary is being used to great effect in creating a "wall of silence" between his homicidal son's head and those trying to get inside it to figure out what triggers lit him off and what could have been done to recognize early-warning signs and save his mother's life and the lives of those people at Sandy Hook. (It appears that his mother trying to take steps to get him diagnosed and into care may be one possible flashpoint--he liked his gravy train of having Mommy take care of him with Daddy's unlimited money and didn't wanna grow up, she wanted to have a chance at a life of her own rather than being chained down with a trial-size Frank Breitkopf*, and he took lethal exception when she wanted out of what he saw as his quite comfortable arrangement.)
*UNSUB in Criminal Minds episode "No Way Out": a brilliant but sociopathic kid whose mother tries to isolate him from the world to contain the damage he can do, but the downside is that after she dies he's set loose on the world living on her money and what he lifts off those he kills.

Anyone have any ideas to elaborate on, develop or expand this? I've crossposted this in a thread at GunHub, but thought two sets of heads are better than one. :)

As pointed out by GunHub member Kevin Gibson, we have three rings of security to deal with on any site of any kind, and four pillars for each ring.... Rings are "Outside Building", "Inside Building" and "Individual Room", pillars are "Deter", "Detect", "Delay" and "Respond."

OUTSIDE
Deter:
Detect:
Delay:
Respond:

INSIDE
Deter: possibility of armed staff roaming, restricted entry
Detect: all entry requires "buzz-in" authorization or key
Delay: hardened doors
Respond: lockdown building, alert SRO and principal and immediately call local LE

ROOM
Deter: possibility of armed staff inside
Detect: panic-button attached to door buzzer, so
Delay: hardened door buys extra time
Respond: armed staffmember if present, panic-button to trigger master alarm, lockdown school and alert SRO and principal

Since we can't edit posts after 24 hours, I may have to repost edits incorporating further findings and your suggestions into a later reply.

Anyone game for helping pitch in on this? I'm hoping to develop this into something that not only could I pitch to my old buddy who represents me here, but that we could all fire off to our Congresscritters as a popularly-supported "Fire Mission" alternate option. If we can get one Congressman from a rural, low-population, head-screwed-on-straight district to introduce it...

Educators, I would especially appreciate your input on this, what potential unforeseen complications you might notice and ways to address them.

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Solo
January 18, 2013, 10:00 PM
Equip teachers with lasers (http://www.freaklasers.com/laser-dazzler.html) designed for temporary visual incapacitation.

jfdavis58
January 18, 2013, 10:06 PM
First, regardless of the immediate drama and trauma, Sandy hook was, relative to other killers/killings small potatoes. I can do the numbers thing but would rather not.

Second, evil is 'a-foot' in this country. It covers it's tracks in a variety of ways but progressive socialism is certainly a major cover if not a major source.

Evil knows no bounds but it can be held in check with prayer.

Let's return God to a prominent position in our society. Even if you think him/her a myth, play along just for the sake of argument-a little fear of God and Judgement works wonders.

Along with God, we illuminate all lies and half truths. We stick to our traditions and roots and core principles and we demand our god given rights regardless of caliber or capacity or stock color.

My plan doesn't need a committee or funding.

AlexanderA
January 18, 2013, 10:30 PM
Cost vs. benefit. Considering the rarity of such tragic occurrences, and the enormous cost of even marginally effective countermeasures, perhaps the wisest course is to do nothing. (I know it sounds heartless, but in the bigger picture, it isn't.) I think what we'll end up doing is piling on more layers of "security theater," that will let us feel better about ourselves, but will have little other effect. If you want 100% protection, home-school your kids (and deprive them of normal interaction with their peers).

hso
January 18, 2013, 10:34 PM
We have had one incident like this in 20 years. There's no need to actually "do" anything since we haven't had this happen enough to require us to do anything.

leadcounsel
January 18, 2013, 10:35 PM
Eliminate gun free zones.

It's a "school" so teach teachers how to shoot. Heck, most instructors will teach for free. I'd even volunteer my time to teach teachers.

Free. Deterrant effect.

mgmorden
January 18, 2013, 10:35 PM
Best way to STOP something like this is to shoot the attacker.

If you mean "prevent" though, I personally believe that the goal of preventing crime is a pipe-dream - particularly crime that isn't for personal gain. There are bad people in this world. Laws won't prevent this. Support groups don't prevent this. Studies don't prevent this. There is no societal cure for keeping people from doing something like this.

As such, the only way to deal with people who commit such heinous acts is to make sure than when they do make that decision, that we are in a position to stop it as quickly as possible.

With this recent shooting for example, I don't think there was anything that could have reasonably been done to prevent this. Yes the perp had some mental issues, but LOTS of people have issues at that level who never hurt anyone. We can't lock them all up. If the teachers or administrators had been armed however, I'd wager that the death toll would have been greater than zero, but far less than 26.

9MMare
January 18, 2013, 10:39 PM
Let's return God to a prominent position in our society. Even if you think him/her a myth, play along just for the sake of argument-a little fear of God and Judgement works wonders.

Along with God, we illuminate all lies and half truths. We stick to our traditions and roots and core principles and we demand our god given rights regardless of caliber or capacity or stock color.
.

Aside from the affront this is to the Constitution...much like trying to infringe on the 2A....crazy people dont care about God's Word except when they hear him speaking thru Labrador Retrievers telling them to kill, etc etc.

Solo
January 18, 2013, 10:40 PM
Let's return God to a prominent position in our society. Even if you think him/her a myth, play along just for the sake of argument-a little fear of God and Judgement works wonders.

Along with God, we illuminate all lies and half truths. We stick to our traditions and roots and core principles and we demand our god given rights regardless of caliber or capacity or stock color.

What if God is one of those lies?

Mr.454
January 18, 2013, 10:50 PM
When I was in school we had ONE just one police officer in every public middle and high school. Now did any guns ever make it into the school? Yes. Did any shootings or stabbing occur on school property no. I'm sure it didn't cost that much.

Alaska444
January 18, 2013, 10:54 PM
Put God back in the schools AND eliminate the gun free zones. God is no lie. Perhaps folks should get to know Him before calling Him a lie.

Solo
January 18, 2013, 11:03 PM
He has no business in a public school.

hso
January 18, 2013, 11:04 PM
And this one's off the rails in a hurry.

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