NY Legal Manually Operated AR-15?


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carnaby
January 19, 2013, 12:58 AM
Does anyone know if a manually operated AR-15 platform rifle is legal in NY State now that the new ban is law?

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F-111 John
January 19, 2013, 01:57 PM
I suppose you could make an argument that if you welded over the gas hole in your barrel, removed the gas tube, and had to manually charge the weapon after every shot, the weapon is no longer semi-automatic, and cannot be readily converted back to semi-automatic.

Never heard tell of it ever being done, even in California. There, they get around the issue by using a "bullet button" in place of the standard magazine release, thereby making the rifle technically not having a detatchable magazine. I highly doubt that New York would look upon the same modification in a similar light, though.

Prince Yamato
January 19, 2013, 02:04 PM
They do this in England with their AR-15s.So, yes, you can do that.

Centurian22
January 19, 2013, 02:33 PM
Very interesting concept!

goldie
January 19, 2013, 02:33 PM
From the nys.gov faq website; Q: If I modify my gun by removing all design characteristics that makes it an assault weapon, do I have to register it?
A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means. If this is what an ar has to wind up as to be legal, i'd rather not even have it....

Rob G
January 19, 2013, 04:39 PM
Unfortunately the basic design of the AR is going to work against it in this case. They're so easy to modify that I doubt you could ever really say that any change you make to it could not be "reversed through reasonable means."

cpy911
January 19, 2013, 04:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR4u0MCkq18&feature=youtube_gdata_player

mavracer
January 19, 2013, 05:36 PM
Look at a Remington 7615

Tom from WNY
January 20, 2013, 04:47 PM
It depends. Are you going to permanently attach the magazine? NY is regulating the box the ammunition goes in. If it is detachable, then the maximum capacity is 7. Look, I live in this State; I've spent a number of sleepless nights and worrysome days.

It's not just the fact the long gun is a Semi-Automatic, it's also the "ammunition feeding device". Also, consider this: the AR platform has 2 pins that hold the "upper" to the "lower". Traditionally, we have considered the serial numbered piece to be the firearm. The wonderfully thought through legislation has the term "readily convertible" sprinklered throughout.

So, are you also going to permanently attach the upper and lower?

Also, before criticizing NY Firearms owners, please take the opportunity to learn about the political environment of this State. The Legislative branch is disproportionatley laden with Progressives from the NYC/LI area due to population based districting. North of that area, it is mostly Conservative unless you are in a Urban area.

Texan Scott
January 20, 2013, 05:06 PM
In the current environment I'm sure you could sell your used AR-15 for more than enough to get a brand new NY legal ruger mini-14 ranch rifle.

glennv
January 20, 2013, 05:21 PM
I bet the fact that you would toss another AR upper and make it an "assault weapon" would eliminate this idea. I'd bury it in the back yard or have a relative from out of state hold on to it.

Does anyone actually think this law isn't going to be deemed unconstitutional? It's so far reaching it works to your advantage.

Sebastian the Ibis
January 20, 2013, 11:04 PM
Unfortunately, The Second Circuit is going to find any law constitutional. That is why all challenges should be brought in the 4th or 7th circuits.

svytlana
January 21, 2013, 12:20 AM
just put a bolt action upper on it and stash the reg upper out of sight. its just a "hunting bol action" hehe

carnaby
January 21, 2013, 04:14 PM
So, are you also going to permanently attach the upper and lower?
That's my concern. I can build an AR that has never had a gas port drilled in the barrel, but given that the upper and lower are easily separable, and the upper can be easily swapped, would the NEW law ban the weapon?

Not worried about mag limit, there are plenty of 5 round mags.

Mag limit applies to non-semi auto weapons as well? So if you have a bolt gun like an AI with a detachable box magazine that holds 8 rounds, new mags have to be 7 or less?

pseudonymity
January 21, 2013, 06:56 PM
I do not see why it would not be legal. Only semi-autos are AW, and rifles and handguns must have detachable mags (shotguns can have a tube and still be AW).

No restrictions that I can see on any semi with a fixed mag like a SKS or a AR lower with the mag permanently pinned (would require unpinning the action to load).

cbmax
January 21, 2013, 07:04 PM
How about a bolt action design with a pistol grip and a detachable box magazine!

CB

pseudonymity
January 22, 2013, 07:26 PM
How about a bolt action design with a pistol grip and a detachable box magazine!

CB
Bolt action is OK with any features on a rifle - only semi auto rifles can be AW.

The mag is OK as long as it is <7 rounds new, 10 rounds old. The law for mags and AWs are different things - a detachable mag for a bolt action that is >10 rounds is still illegal.

Of course, there is nothing that I can see that says that a fixed mag that holds > 10 rounds is a problem, regardless of action type. I wonder just how fast you can load a SKS with a 20 round fixed duckbill and stripper clips with 7,7,6 loaded?

AlfieB
January 23, 2013, 09:47 PM
Maybe I'm just an ignorant hillbilly, But I don't see how any of these laws pass constitutional muster. It says, "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be INFRINGED." Seems to me that these are all infringements.

vincewarde
January 23, 2013, 11:12 PM
I would not rule out very quick action by SCOTUS. The "Heller 5" is surely watching government trying as hard as it can to erase a right they have twice confirmed. SCOTUS can here ANY FEDERAL CASE DIRECTLY, should they choose to do so.

Personally my guess is that this NY law will be put on hold by an injunction and fast tracked to SCOTUS - which could decide it is time for a sweeping ruling explaining the scope of the 2nd Amendment right, the level of scrutiny and a whole host of other issues.

Furthermore, the taxpayers could end up being on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in punitive damages because these laws clearly violate the 2nd Amendment right as outlined by the court. Don't believe me? Out here in CA, liberal San Francisco had to write a huge check ($500K+) - including punitive damages in a 2nd Amendment case that was settled early. Scale that up to a state level and it could easily run into millions and even hundreds of millions.

What is going on here is EXACTLY the same as the Southern states passing new segregation laws after Brown vs. Board of Education. I doubt that the justices are going to like it.

vincewarde
January 23, 2013, 11:22 PM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I suppose you could make an argument that if you welded over the gas hole in your barrel, removed the gas tube, and had to manually charge the weapon after every shot, the weapon is no longer semi-automatic, and cannot be readily converted back to semi-automatic.

Never heard tell of it ever being done, even in California. There, they get around the issue by using a "bullet button" in place of the standard magazine release, thereby making the rifle technically not having a detatchable magazine. I highly doubt that New York would look upon the same modification in a similar light, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually, here in CA there were some pump action AKs, prior to the whole bullet button movement. If at all possible, the same thing will be done to ARs. The mods done in the UK could be done here too.

However, this may only end up being applicable to any Federal Ban (DiFi's bill specifically exempts any "manually operated" firearms from AW classification, no doubt to allow these modifications. We went through the same thing when detachable mag SKS's were made illegal here - they allowed conversions to fixed magazine.). It may also apply to new CA laws. NY's bill is so badly written and so tight that the only hope NY gun owners have is SCOTUS.

tarakian
January 24, 2013, 12:14 PM
Agreeing with previous posters, please don't lump all New Yorkers together. I didn't vote for the governor, and every politician in my area voted against the bill. So I clearly did not vote for any of the politicians the voted for the bill. The dysfunctional organization that masquerades as the NYS government works in a very odd way. Most major decisions are made in a room by the governor and the leader of the house and senate, then jammed down the rank and file's throat. The majority of upstate politicians who voted for this will likely be looking for a real job after the next election. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about the NYC region. I would like to donate it to NJ.

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