Just got the Hornady #9


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Kachok
January 19, 2013, 08:48 PM
Been itching to find this locally, and I got my copy today :) But I have been less then impressed thus far :( only 6.5x55 data is for 100 year old Mausers, and everything else seems on the extreme end of lawyer friendly. 44gr of Varget is supposed to be the max load of a 150gr 308......Come on now guys I don't know anybody who loads them that low. Load data for my 270 WSM was so limited it is simply laughable, and a waste of time. (4 powders for each bullet weight....no kidding) And to make it worse they were all medium powders (near 4350 burn rates) so they were not touching what you could do with the slow burning powders the 270 WSM was designed for such as MagPro and RL22.
Only useful thing I have gotten out of this so far is a couple powders for my 06 that I have never thought to use before.
All in all I am not impressed, not one little bit, this will be the last Hornady manual I ever buy.
BTW I have used Hornady bullets with Nosler and Serria load data for years, and never noticed any increase in pressure with their projectiles. I cannot see any reason to reduce max loads to such an extent unless they had a defective barrel. I have the same rifle they tested their 308 in and have used 4gr over their max (a Nosler load) with no pressure signs, and I use the EXACT same COL and primers they did! Yes I realize that there are micro pressure messureing devices that are much more sensitive then my Federal 210M primers, but you would think going that far over would flatten the hell out of them if 44gr was really the safe pressure threshold.
Anyone else less then impressed with their #9.

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twofifty
January 19, 2013, 09:40 PM
Thanks for the warning.

Lerk
January 19, 2013, 09:55 PM
Yea I picked one up the other day too as I was borrowing a friend's #8. Less data than #8, and the powder charges seem to get lower and lower every manual that comes out. Still worth the money as it does cover some of the new powders that were released recently.

Kachok
January 19, 2013, 10:10 PM
Yeah I have noticed that trend a while back, seems like every manual gets more and more lawyer friendly, and don't get me wrong I am not trying to set any speed records with my 308, 30-06, or 6.5x55 (I have more overbore cartrages for that LOL) but don't have me wasting bullets working up from 27gr of powder either. It takes a whole bunch of bullets and time working up from 27gr to 48.5gr in half grain increments. And for crying out loud don't tell me that I cannot even match factory fodder performance!
I have never been the type to start at max load and work your way up, heck I can count the number of "over max loads" I have ever tried on one hand, but if things keep going this way we are all going to have to because we will be pushing 22LR speeds out of our 7mm Rem Mags. When basic factory ammo (not Light Mag or Superformance) is running 120fps over your fastest max load you are fibbing on your pressures just a little too much for my liking.

Kachok
January 19, 2013, 10:47 PM
Oh and another thing that is really getting under my skin, they don't list all bullet weights for each cartrage, for example they have 208gr A-Max data for 308 Win and 300 Win Mag, but not for 30-06 and 300 WSM. Did they just assume that the 308 guy would want data for their heavy match bullet and the 300 WSM guys would not care? Or did they just decide that they did not have time to do it right and skipped past the 30-06, the most popular 30 cal on the planet just to save time? I was going to buy some A-Max bullets but did not know what powders would work with that heavy a projectile, their own reloading manual is no help at all.....SAD! This is so bad I am actually pissed and about to wright them a letter.

hueyville
January 19, 2013, 11:16 PM
Purchased Hornady #9 yesterday. No time to look yet. Will buy #10 and #11 too. Just the way I am. I do consult at least three manuals before starting a new load and do some averaging if they have significant differences in charge weights.

dragon813gt
January 19, 2013, 11:32 PM
Charges have been coming down due to precise pressure testing equipment just as much as lawyers. I have #9 as well but haven't dug into it deeply yet. Unless I'm using a Hornady bullet I will go to the powder manufacturer's data first anyway.


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ArchAngelCD
January 19, 2013, 11:35 PM
While I agree the load data from most sources has become more anemic each time a new book comes out we still need data for the new powders and bullets that come out.

I bought the new Hornady #9 to use as a cross reference to the online data and Lyman #49 manual. I have a lot of manuals and use them all when working up a load for a new cartridge. (from Speer #8 and Lyman #44 all the way up to Hornady #9)

Kachok
January 20, 2013, 12:09 AM
Just sent an e-mail to Hornady, it reads.

"Just a friendly heads up from a long time fan of your bullets.
After much waiting I finally found a copy of your new reloading manual #9. To my complete surprise I found myself sorely disappointed in it! Some suggestions to keep the fans of your fantastic bullets happy.
1. Get modern action data for the 6.5x55, all you have listed is 100 year old Mauser action data that does not even apply to the Sako, Tikka, CZ and Howa rifles on the market. The Sweed is my favorite hunting caliber of all time and I am not alone in this.
2. Complete you data. I have been wanting to load some 208gr A-Max for 30-06 and 300 WSM but did not know which powders to start with, your own brand new manual does not have any such data, interesting that you have it for the 308 and 300 Win Mag, and not the others. Also I found your load data for some calibers to be VERY limited, For example the 270 WSM had much less data then some obscure wildcat cartrages. 4 powders is hardly worth mention honestly, I have a 270 WSM as my long ranged gun and I found this to be a major letdown.
3. I realize you have to keep the pressure lawyers happy, but come on guys, when you tell me that the max load of the fastest powder is 100+fps slower then the el-chepo factory fodder it makes me question your measurements just a bit. I realize your bullet is different then Nolser's, but I have never noticed any pressure difference between your SST and their BT, and your max load is .4gr away from their starting load! That is a pretty wild difference.
4. Not that you should copy anyone but Nosler does list their most accurate powder and charge weight, I have found this to be a very helpful tool seeing as over 90% of the time it is true in my rifles as well. This is very useful when dealing with the huge selection of powders/charges.
5. Get feedback from your fans before you publish, I am sure this could only improve on your product. Put together a focus group of reloaders for a fresh prospective. Heck if you need someone to volunteer ask me.
6. It would make your manual so much more informative if you could break down the difference in terminal performance of your bullets at speed, Barnes is the only company I know of that does this to any real extent, ballistic gel, and expansion tests. They post it on their website and it has made them famous, I have absolutely no doubt your product is every bit as good as theirs, show it off.
7. Keep making fantastic bullets, I load them for every single rifle and pistol I own."

ArchAngelCD
January 20, 2013, 12:46 AM
Just sent an e-mail to Hornady, it reads.

"Just a friendly heads up from a long time fan of your bullets.
After much waiting I finally found a copy of your new reloading manual #9. To my complete surprise I found myself sorely disappointed in it! Some suggestions to keep the fans of your fantastic bullets happy.
1. Get modern action data for the 6.5x55, all you have listed is 100 year old Mauser action data that does not even apply to the Sako, Tikka, CZ and Howa rifles on the market. The Sweed is my favorite hunting caliber of all time and I am not alone in this.
2. Complete you data. I have been wanting to load some 208gr A-Max for 30-06 and 300 WSM but did not know which powders to start with, your own brand new manual does not have any such data, interesting that you have it for the 308 and 300 Win Mag, and not the others. Also I found your load data for some calibers to be VERY limited, For example the 270 WSM had much less data then some obscure wildcat cartrages. 4 powders is hardly worth mention honestly, I have a 270 WSM as my long ranged gun and I found this to be a major letdown.
3. I realize you have to keep the pressure lawyers happy, but come on guys, when you tell me that the max load of the fastest powder is 100+fps slower then the el-chepo factory fodder it makes me question your measurements just a bit. I realize your bullet is different then Nolser's, but I have never noticed any pressure difference between your SST and their BT, and your max load is .4gr away from their starting load! That is a pretty wild difference.
4. Not that you should copy anyone but Nosler does list their most accurate powder and charge weight, I have found this to be a very helpful tool seeing as over 90% of the time it is true in my rifles as well. This is very useful when dealing with the huge selection of powders/charges.
5. Get feedback from your fans before you publish, I am sure this could only improve on your product. Put together a focus group of reloaders for a fresh prospective. Heck if you need someone to volunteer ask me.
6. It would make your manual so much more informative if you could break down the difference in terminal performance of your bullets at speed, Barnes is the only company I know of that does this to any real extent, ballistic gel, and expansion tests. They post it on their website and it has made them famous, I have absolutely no doubt your product is every bit as good as theirs, show it off.
7. Keep making fantastic bullets, I load them for every single rifle and pistol I own."
Your letter is poorly written and you could use a spell checker. Proper grammar and punctuation is necessary if you want to be taken seriously. (Not that Iím an English major)

Kachok
January 20, 2013, 12:56 AM
^Thanks mom, I need to be reminded to double check my punctuation ever now and then. (she was an English teacher LOL)

twofifty
January 20, 2013, 01:11 AM
Great positive letter with lots of common sense suggestions.
You raised a bunch of valid points there Kachok.

I hope Hdy wakes up and puts a focus group together, made of shooters from all disciplines.

p.s. never mind the spelling.

Kachok
January 20, 2013, 09:46 PM
The crazy part is that I heard such rave reviews of it before I forked out my $40. I don't see what other people liked about it, it all seemed kind of half ass to me. Nosler has their new #7 book out maybe I can trade this one it LOL

ArchAngelCD
January 21, 2013, 09:15 AM
The crazy part is that I heard such rave reviews of it before I forked out my $40. I don't see what other people liked about it, it all seemed kind of half ass to me. Nosler has their new #7 book out maybe I can trade this one it LOL
Where did you buy that you spent $40? Everywhere I see the Hornady #9 for sale it's no more than $29.99. ($30)

ATLDave
January 21, 2013, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I've noticed a number of instances of the Hornady manual listing max charges well below the start charges in Speer or other manuals. Sometimes, the Hornady manual has a shorter COAL shown, but I don't know if it explains the difference fully.

cfullgraf
January 21, 2013, 10:46 AM
While I agree the load data from most sources has become more anemic each time a new book comes out we still need data for the new powders and bullets that come out.

I bought the new Hornady #9 to use as a cross reference to the online data and Lyman #49 manual. I have a lot of manuals and use them all when working up a load for a new cartridge. (from Speer #8 and Lyman #44 all the way up to Hornady #9)

Yep! I have a nice library of reloading manuals collected over 30 years. Handy to have now and again.

With the powder suppliers moving their products around to different manufacturers, i wonder how similar powder remains over the years.

Besides looking for accuracy, I tend to reload rifle to a particular velocity. As long as the load at the desired velocity is less than the current published maximum load without any red flags, I am happy. I subscribe to the practice if I am experiencing pressure signs, I am way over the specified pressure limit.

Hornady #9 is fine, in my opinion. I wonder when Sierra will update their printed manual. It is getting a bit dated.

9w1911
January 21, 2013, 12:42 PM
if I'm using an xtp etc I will use Hornady but I always cross that w Lee then Lyman then online

Kachok
January 26, 2013, 05:02 AM
Finally got an e-mail back from them, they informed me that they would be passing that on to the tech department, I don't think this guy had any idea what I was talking about but he was nice enough about it.

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