Bill Clinton to Democrats: Don't Trivialize Gun Culture


PDA






JohnBT
January 20, 2013, 06:19 PM
www.politico.com/story/2013/01/bill-clinton-to-democrats-dont-trivialize-gun-culture-86443.html?hp=t1_3

"...Bill Clinton warned a group of top Democratic donors at a private Saturday meeting not to underestimate the passions that gun control stirs among many Americans."


Somebody needed to talk some sense to them.

John

If you enjoyed reading about "Bill Clinton to Democrats: Don't Trivialize Gun Culture" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
T Slothrop
January 20, 2013, 06:34 PM
Wow. Just wow. I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.

Thanks for posting this most informative link.

JohnnyK
January 20, 2013, 06:34 PM
atleast old Willy is good for one thing....

481
January 20, 2013, 06:36 PM
Zero needs to listen to Clinton- he speaks from experience. (the loss of both houses of Congress after passage of the 94AWB)

clutch
January 20, 2013, 06:41 PM
A much smaller number of LGBT's have exerted a lot of power in the Democratic party. Democrats owning guns is a larger number. Riling up the base and the opposition is a formula for electoral disaster.

Clutch

mister_murphy
January 20, 2013, 06:43 PM
At least old Bill gets it, even if he is a tad slow about it... I feel though that he isnt saying this just about any gun control legislation alone. Obama, and those who support him need to keep the government as a whole moving forward, and getting bogged down in a sideshow, pandering to one side, alienating the other side, creates nothing but a division that can carry over in to months or years of 2 sides at a stand-off, and there being little common ground on anything. I feel thats what Bill is really getting at...

M-Cameron
January 20, 2013, 06:43 PM
the problem with many politicians is they think of a gun as just another object...like a TV, a Computer, or a Car.........they dont equate it as a right like being able to speak, or practice religion.

so they feel they can walk all over them without fear of backlash....

i dont know if they realize it, but politicians who wish to strip the rights of gun owners are literally no different than the politicians who prevented women and blacks from having equal rights.



Billy learned that the hard way, and BHO and his ilk would be wise to listen to him.

JERRY
January 20, 2013, 06:44 PM
Clinton plays to what suits him. As ark gov. He signed the ccw law without hesitation......because it suited him. As president he signed the "awb" because it suited him.

He said what he just said now because........thats right, it suited him.

Loc n Load
January 20, 2013, 06:46 PM
Mr. Clinton acknowledged back in the mid 90's when the Dem's lost the house/senate and WH that the primary cause of that debacle for the Dem's was the 94 AWB....the passing of the 94AWB was far from a slam dunk.....and it made guns and magazines a "toxic" subject for politicians...that is why you are not going to see these Dem's from "red" states fall on their swords for these current proposals. And today's gun culture and the overall opinions toward gun ownership is much different than it was in the 90's... nor did we have the wonderful tools to communicate with that we have today....such as this medium that I am using to post this.

22-rimfire
January 20, 2013, 07:33 PM
Bill Clinton is an astute politician. The President is planning on getting his campaign group on the Federal dime to sell his gun control legislation. It might work. Communication is a lot faster now and the President used the internet much to his advantage during the last election that Republicans believed was a slam dunk at the start.

Clinton said... “Do not be self-congratulatory about how brave you for being for this” gun control push, he said. “The only brave people are the people who are going to lose their jobs if they vote with you.”

Biden wants to trivialize the impact of gun owners and the National Rifle Association. I suspect Obama believes it too. We'll see, but neither Biden or Obama have jobs to loose in two years. Obama and Nancy Pelosi asked fellow Democrats to fall on their sword knowing full well only about 50% of the people supporte Obams's health care ligislation. We'll see how it goes....

Carl N. Brown
January 20, 2013, 07:40 PM
Democrats don't trivialize the gun culture--they demonize the gun culture, e.g. the bitter clingers remark.

slamfirev10
January 20, 2013, 07:41 PM
slick didn't say don't push an awb, just be more careful how it's packaged

22-rimfire
January 20, 2013, 07:45 PM
No he didn't. If Clinton were president he would probably do the universal background check and funding to states and school districts for school resource officers. I don't want the universal checks, but it seems that item has significant support.

Fryerpower
January 20, 2013, 07:59 PM
“A lot of these people … all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing,” he told the Democratic financiers. “Or they’re living in a place where they don’t have much police presence. Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.”

Or they are highly educated, knowledge workers that UNDERSTAND that the Constitution and the Amendments to the Constitution are the rules that govern the rest of the rules that come after it.

His quote above is a back stabbing complement at best.

Jim

r1derbike
January 20, 2013, 08:01 PM
I have known Bill for decades. I was there for his inauguration, in the streets of D.C., not because I voted for him, but because I was already there because of other pressing issues.

I predicted the problems that arose. After all, they arose in Arkansas, where he was governor, and he again lost because of doubling vehicle registration costs (and other issues). Integrity always seemed to be an issue, but he came-back to the voters of Arkansas, crawling on his belly, and begged forgiveness, and was given another term.

Bill is intelligent. He knows not to underestimate the will and determination of gun culture in the south. We were raised with firearms. We are not backwoods idiots, despite some very small rural areas of Arkansas, much like rural areas in the East. I went to college in Arkansas, my son went to public school in Annapolis, after 7 years of schooling in Arkansas, and he was so far advanced in his studies, comparatively, he was teaching his schoolmates as a tutor.

Bill is a very well versed, passionate individual. He used to play sax at the Springdale, AR High School, when he was guv. Just drop-in and play. That's the kind of guy he was.

I won't condemn his presidency, as there were some good, and not so good moments.

But when he speaks to Democrats about passionate southerners, they had better listen. This was a political admonishment, a playbook entry, that we are to be feared. It was, if nobody caught it, a call to action to Democrats, if they want to defeat us. Bottom line.

mljdeckard
January 20, 2013, 08:26 PM
The Clintons are survivors. They adapt like coyotes. They have their ideals, but they know that ideals are useless if you get booted out of office.

Gun issues are just one thing that make me long for the good old Clinton days compared to now.

sidheshooter
January 20, 2013, 08:27 PM
Clinton is one of the savviest politicians in the last half of the last century. Look where he came from, and look how he still retains significance. That's not an endorsement, but the guy is smart. He's also one of the best networkers alive; I'm told that he can remember every conversation that he's had, and send notes about them to people years after the fact. One of my friends received just such a card.

He's right about this topic, as well.

herkyguy
January 20, 2013, 08:29 PM
“A lot of these people … all they’ve got is their hunting and their fishing,” he told the Democratic financiers. “Or they’re living in a place where they don’t have much police presence. Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/bill-clinton-to-democrats-dont-trivialize-gun-culture-86443_Page2.html#ixzz2IZLlB6yr

He doesn't really get it. He misses the point.

Ms_Dragon
January 20, 2013, 08:29 PM
I have to say I'm envious of your American gun culture.

If we had that sort of spirit here our restrictive gun laws would have never been put into place.

HOOfan_1
January 20, 2013, 08:34 PM
They thought they could talk to governors that way

The quote of someone who obviously thinks elected officials are better than other people

People voting for more gun control are not brave...they are cowards, playing to the cowardly sheep in our country.

Carl N. Brown
January 20, 2013, 08:45 PM
Or they’ve been listening to this stuff for so long that they believe it all.
Sounds more like the problem with anti-gun nuts rather than the problem with use pro-gun nuts. Wright & Rossi I believe pointed out that the less a person knows about existing gun laws the more they support more "gun control", the more a person knows about existing gun laws the less they support more of the same.

jamesbeat
January 20, 2013, 11:11 PM
Beat me to it, that's exactly what I was going to say.

The antis have been listening to the same rhetoric for so long that they believe it despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

You have to remember that a lot of people take it on face value that gun control saves lives.
If you believe that, then you would have to have a pretty hard heart not to want bans.

How many of us would disagree with gun bans if they really genuinely did what the antis claim they would?
We (pro gun and anti gun people) both want the same thing.
We both want ourselves, our families and all good people to be safe.

The difference is that we believe that good guys with guns prevent crimes, whereas the antis believe that gun bans prevent crimes.

Trouble is, they don't.

There is overwhelming evidence to support the fact that gun bans don't stop crime.

I'm positive that if the general public all sat down and looked at the facts before making their minds up, they wouldn't agree so much with the anti gun folk.

Unfortunately, our arguments, while they are demonstrably true, are counterintuitive to the non-enthusiast.
On the other side of the coin, what the gun grabbers are arguing seems to make sense as long as you don't look at it too closely.
Fewer guns means fewer people having access to and misusing guns, right?

What we need to do is drive it home that the basic root of the argument is false.
Gun bans don't save lives. When you understand that, the rest of the argument falls like a house of cards.

Airbrush Artist
January 21, 2013, 12:02 AM
Its all according to what Is ,Is..

HorseSoldier
January 21, 2013, 12:26 AM
Wow. Just wow. I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.


Well, he got a pretty good lesson in what that specific keg of dynamite can do, in terms of votes.

A much smaller number of LGBT's have exerted a lot of power in the Democratic party. Democrats owning guns is a larger number. Riling up the base and the opposition is a formula for electoral disaster.


???

LGBTs as in "Lesbians, Gay, Bisexuals, and Transgenders"?

Is the argument here that gun control is basically a homosexual plot?

BHP FAN
January 21, 2013, 12:39 AM
''I have to say I'm envious of your American gun culture...''

c'mon over, we've plenty of room. If you come across on our southern border, you can probably get into college free as well.

BHP FAN
January 21, 2013, 12:43 AM
''Is the argument here that gun control is basically a homosexual plot? ...''

I don't think so. The Pink Pistols are on our side.

Cosmoline
January 21, 2013, 12:58 AM
Gun issues are just one thing that make me long for the good old Clinton days compared to now.

What!? Back when he actually PASSED an AWB? When he passed the mag ban? When we faced a million mom march? Those were the BAD old days.

HorseSoldier
January 21, 2013, 12:58 AM
My thinking as well. I wasn't real clear on what the poster who mentioned "LGBT" Democrats as the driving force behind gun control was talking about.

BHP FAN
January 21, 2013, 01:07 AM
Ah. yeah, we need all the help we can get.

leadcounsel
January 21, 2013, 01:11 AM
Could gun control be the downfall of the Obama admin?

USAF_Vet
January 21, 2013, 01:14 AM
I think he was saying how much change has been made in congress by a small number of LGBT's over gay rights issues.

And that Democrat gun owners make up a larger group than the LGBT's. Ergo, a larger number of left leaning gun owners can make an ever bigger change.

At least that's how I interpreted it.

BHP FAN
January 21, 2013, 01:14 AM
''Could gun control be the downfall of the Obama admin?...''

it would have, if he'd tried it before the election.

Kiln
January 21, 2013, 02:20 AM
''Could gun control be the downfall of the Obama admin?...''

it would have, if he'd tried it before the election.
He knew better. He kept his mouth shut all through the campaign so that he wouldn't jeopardize or potentially lose the election in swing states.

He didn't touch the issue because he knew better. Now it doesn't matter. The people of the USA put him into power.

We've just started Obama's second term and now gun owners had better unite if they want to keep their right to bear arms. Time to hang together or hang seperately guys.

BHP FAN
January 21, 2013, 03:39 AM
well said.

gc70
January 21, 2013, 04:57 AM
“All these polls that you see saying the public is for us on all these issues — they are meaningless if they’re not voting issues,” Clinton said.

Clinton recognizes that opinions and votes are very different things. Much public sentiment about gun control is nothing more than casual opinion that will in no way relate to how a person votes in the next election. But any new gun control legislation would be THE deciding factor in how a large percentage of gun owners vote in the next election.

goon
January 21, 2013, 06:42 AM
Exactly. I generally support protection of the environment, equality for homosexuals, legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana, and women's rights to their own bodies. I will support those things if I can.

But I will toss that all aside if guns are an issue in an election. The Second Amendment gives the rest of the Bill of Rights its teeth. Guns are the issue that drives me to write letters and contribute money. Start talking about limiting the right of the People to own weapons and I become a one-issue voter.

Pilot
January 21, 2013, 07:05 AM
Bill Clinton is an astute politician.

THIS.

The Clintons are survivors. They adapt like coyotes. They have their ideals, but they know that ideals are useless if you get booted out of office.


And THIS.

That is all you need to know.

Hacker15E
January 21, 2013, 07:10 AM
LGBTs as in "Lesbians, Gay, Bisexuals, and Transgenders"?

Is the argument here that gun control is basically a homosexual plot?

No, he was saying that there are less LGBT Americans than American firearms owners, and over the course of the last decade they have influenced a sea change on their own social role and how they're seen in American society.

Basically that a numerically small group have made a (relatively) large societal impact.

Screamin'Eagle
January 21, 2013, 07:35 AM
Now we're starting to venture into the twilight zone between acceptable discussion and not acceptable. But I will add my two cents:

While I do not think Clinton recognized why we are fighting, he does state the type of fight we will put up and is warning his party that if they get embattled in this argument, they could loose the chance to change a lot of other things they would like to, and basically go nowhere. What I hear him telling his party is that going after guns will ultimately cost them the ability to continue to pass socialistic bills and ram over budget spending down taxpayer's throats.

22-rimfire
January 21, 2013, 07:57 AM
I personally don't think gun control legislation will be the "downfall" of the Obama Administration. The President is just being the same person he has always been. What do you expect? The national press will be nearly 100% behind him.

herkyguy
January 21, 2013, 08:31 AM
Obama was too smart to delve into this before the election. He was totally consumed by ensuring his re-election.

But now we are getting into new territory. He will focus on his "legacy" which i believe means we will see his worldview shape more of his decisions....

That is one thing that really does scare me. He has a vastly different understanding of America than the ideals we were founded on.

And he thinks we are the nuts by the way.

radiotom
January 21, 2013, 08:50 AM
Radiotom - This is a gun forum. I only brought the other issues up to illustrate how my feelings on the RKBA take precedence. Let's stick to guns. I promise to argue with you about other stuff over a beer some other time and place, but not here.

And do you want the support of liberal leaning people like me on RKBA or not? Seems to me that we ain't got the luxury of being overly choosy these days .

If it makes you feel any better, I feel just as strange siding with the far right on this as they do with me.

But we can sort that out among ourselves AFTER we have secured the Second Amendment from this latest threat.
And who did you vote for in 2012?

CTPhil
January 21, 2013, 09:06 AM
Democrats don't trivialize the gun culture--they demonize the gun culture, e.g. the bitter clingers remark.
This attitude doesn't help at all. There are many pro gun Democrats, why must we always tar every group with the same brush? They are hearing "gun control" from a large part of their base and are responding. Rather that call them the devil we should be encouraging them to vote their true inclinations. Like it or not we need Democratic votes in Congress and should support anyone leaning our way even a little.

Creature
January 21, 2013, 09:09 AM
Clinton was never and still isn't a friend to the 2nd Amendment. The article simply points out that he isn't stupid.

The really scary part of that article are in the comments section.

Pointshoot
January 21, 2013, 09:25 AM
Clinton is a globalist. (Former student of Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University who he specifically mentioned in important speech.) Part of that globalist agenda is destroying the US Constitution, including the 2nd Amendment. Hillary Clinton is involved in UN treaty negotiations that also have this same globalist objective.

They will try to use EOs to agencies and administrative law to push their anti 2A agenda forward. Bottomline, they want you all disarmed.

If any of this seems 'farfetched' - - - do the research.

"Condemnation without Investigation is the height of Ignorance." - Albert Einstein

phil dirt
January 21, 2013, 09:55 AM
The anti's are in this for the long haul. Clinton recognizes this. They will use every opportunity until they get what they want, and we all know what that is. We must continue to politely but firmly let all of our elected representatives know that we are watching them, and if they vote against the 2ed, we will vote to remove them from the gravy train.

WilleRupert
January 21, 2013, 10:03 AM
Good article, thanks for posting.

2ifbyC
January 21, 2013, 10:06 AM
To summarize, Willy could have sobbingly and succinctly said "Leave America's gun-owners alone".

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 21, 2013, 10:19 AM
I have heard Mr.Clinton speak on this. He openly admitted this drove a wedge in democrats and the support of their representatives. He knew it cost him a lot of support and admittedly did nothing like they hoped it would.

Gordon_Freeman
January 21, 2013, 10:20 AM
goon, you sound like a good Libertarian. I agree with you on what you posted above. I voted for Romney even though I am a Libertarian because of threats to gun rights.
I watched a recent video of Bill Clinton last night. He was saying that "they don't need 30 round clips." He is not on our side.

gunsandreligion
January 21, 2013, 10:41 AM
Radiotom - This is a gun forum. I only brought the other issues up to illustrate how my feelings on the RKBA take precedence. Let's stick to guns. I promise to argue with you about other stuff over a beer some other time and place, but not here. Best not to bring up those other views in a place where most people lean to the right. Its likely to have the unintended consequences of a thread jack, non gun based discussion, and a locked thread.

Pointshoot
January 21, 2013, 10:52 AM
This does illustrate one thing - that many people who consider themselves 'liberal' are also of the opinion that they should have the right to protect themselves & their families. Theyre voting with their wallets, and buying guns.

Personally, I've come to the place where I find labels distracting and counter productive. Too many times people replace their own thinking with what they think they must adopt in order to be 'consistent' with their label. "Dem", "Repub", "liberal", "conservative", "libertarian", etc.

If you support the 2A, great - we have something in common and can work together on that issue.

Thats also where taking people out shooting, offering advice & help to beginners, helping with safety instruction, etc is very powerful. You bypass the media and the opinions of the talking heads to be with people on a person-to-person basis. You give them more than 2 minute sound bites. They see that the Vast majority of people with semi auto rifles are their neighbors, and are absolutely of no danger to any innocent people.

MachIVshooter
January 21, 2013, 12:15 PM
Start talking about limiting the right of the People to own weapons and I become a one-issue voter.

As do many others. I do believe this was the point slick was trying to drive home. Only two groups of voters remember which rep voted how on gun control, and the anti-gun crowd is much smaller.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 21, 2013, 12:16 PM
No, by no means is he on our side about guns. He simply states it is usually political suicide. He just learned that gun owners, democrats alike turned on him. There was a huge spike in the Libertarian and Republican converts....

I agree with MachIVshooter on this. Slick Willy has seen the people cling and band together to protect the right to bear arms. I believe a lot of different things, but they are all protected by my right to bear arms. "Shall not be infringed" implies to my right to protect my other rights and beliefs...

Fishslayer
January 21, 2013, 01:18 PM
Wow. Just wow. I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.

Thanks for posting this most informative link.

IIRC nobody ever accused Komrad Slikwilly nor his wife of being stupid.

CTPhil
January 21, 2013, 01:45 PM
Best not to bring up those other views in a place where most people lean to the right. Its likely to have the unintended consequences of a thread jack, non gun based discussion, and a locked thread.
It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.

Batty67
January 21, 2013, 02:10 PM
Very good read. I have very mixed feelings about his statements and the article in general. But I have to admire Bill Clinton a little for actually learning how politically costly was his support of the 1994 AWB. I mean, he *gets* it and was trying to warn his fellow smug Dems.

gunsandreligion
January 21, 2013, 02:35 PM
It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.that sounds harsh. I was just pointing out that the large majority of THR members probably leans the other way and therefore the likelyhood of it causing a offtopic discussion is higher. Either way your politics lean, its best to leave all nongun issues(to a certain extent) out of our discussion.
As to slick Willy, he has a good point. It is suicide to keep a small minority of americans happy and give the majority the shaft.

JustinJ
January 21, 2013, 03:10 PM
It's OK to be a left leaning, gun owning THR member as long as you know your place.

Please elaborate as to what that "place" is.

CTPhil
January 21, 2013, 03:18 PM
Apparently it is being silent while others tee off on liberals.

Jeff White
January 21, 2013, 03:31 PM
The author of that article is talking down to us. His whole premise is that if they just stop calling us names and making us mad and gently explain to us why we need to give up our semi-autos and standard capacity magazines, like one would talk to a difficult child, we will see the logic of giving them up for the sake of the nation and they can achieve their goal of banning them.

I for one am more angry with the condescending, elitist attitude then I am with their name calling. :fire:

CTPhil
January 21, 2013, 03:44 PM
I'm not sure who is talking down there, but the distinction to be made is that Clinton is talking about political strategy regarding getting re-elected, the ideology of gun rights doesn't seem to be part of his discussion.

Jeff White
January 21, 2013, 04:02 PM
You must have missed this in the article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/01/20/bill-clinton-sounds-the-right-note-in-warning-those-who-disrespect-the-american-gun-culture/2/
President Obama should listen closely to the words of his predecessor and very seriously consider directly addressing his 2008 statement. He should be willing to show up before a group of pro-gun Americans in the heart of rural America and make his case with respect for the traditions of those who would disagree with him and a strong argument as to why his ideas are important to the nation.

To simply pretend that he never said what he said or imagine that millions of good Americans are not harboring the memories of the insult as they react to the latest effort to accomplish gun control, is, to say the least, counterproductive.

I want the President to succeed in his effort to rid society of weapons and accessories that are causing so much pain and suffering. But I recognize that this can only happen when a large number of those who see it differently are convinced that it is worth parting with an important piece of their own personal history and culture in order to make the nation better.

What Ungar is saying is that if they just stop calling us names and gently explain to us why we should give up our rights: "But I recognize that this can only happen when a large number of those who see it differently are convinced that it is worth parting with an important piece of their own personal history and culture in order to make the nation better."

goon
January 21, 2013, 04:06 PM
I vote Democrat at times, Republican at other times. This past election I voted Libertarian for president, Republican for most everything else. I lean liberal or libertarian on most issues, but I vote to protect the Second Amendment so that's why I voted for pro-gun republicans this time around.
I have never voted for Obama because of his "cling to their guns and their religion" speech he gave during his first campaign. It showed him to be a candidate who is only interested in serving the segment of the population he agrees with. A president has to get above that and be a leader for everyone, not just the people he likes.

And regardless of my political beliefs, I am writing letters to reps in defense of the Second Amendment and bolstering the ranks of pro-RKBA groups with my membership and my money. Clinton may not understand the motivation for this - which includes my military service, education, rural upbringing, and my introduction to Constitiutional issues through back issues of American Rifleman that my great uncle Henry (a WWII scout sniper) gave me as I was growing up. But Clinton does understand the divisive nature of gun control.

Again, I only mentioned the other issues to illustrate that the RKBA takes precedence over any other issue for me when it is being threatened, which always seems to be the case.

JohnBT
January 21, 2013, 04:08 PM
Here's how I look at Clinton's statement: It's not so much what he said, it's that he had to give them a talking to at all. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when the elder statesman of the Democratic Party has to send some of the party elite a wake up call.

Now we'll see what they do with Bill's opinion. Can they learn to be polite?

John

6.5x55swedish
January 21, 2013, 04:21 PM
What politicians and interest groups forget is that Gun Control is not a party issue. There are many of us here who are Democrat or vote Democrat, my self included, who are also gun owners. That is why gun control is a looser for politicians... it irritates members of their own base...

Lets not forget that there are also Republican's who support tight gun control... We recently defeated one in National Election. ;)

goon
January 21, 2013, 04:32 PM
In addition to 6.5x55's comments, might I add that New York's Republican controlled state senate just helped pass the most restrictive gun laws in the nation?

r1derbike
January 21, 2013, 04:36 PM
Clinton was never and still isn't a friend to the 2nd Amendment. The article simply points out that he isn't stupid.

The really scary part of that article are in the comments section.Bingo!

joeschmoe
January 21, 2013, 04:38 PM
I still have my Clinton era AR15, in orginal condition. Bought it new durring the Cosmetic Features Ban (aka AWB). Works great. So do the 20 and 30 round mags I bought back then.

AR15's have never been banned, and never will be.

I always kind of liked Clinton. He was dumb on his Cosmetic Features Ban, but he was an economic conservative who helped balance the budget and didn't balloon the Deficit.
I couldn't care less what he did to that girl with a cigar (as long as she was willing).


BTW, Congress writes the laws in this country. Not the President.

larryh1108
January 21, 2013, 04:39 PM
I agree. What Slick Willy is saying is that when you bring the rights of gun owners into the equation, you change the way they vote. He isn't supporting anything, just telling it like it is. He learned the hard way. Democrats, take notice.

Somewhere in NM
January 21, 2013, 04:39 PM
I don't agree with either party or any polititian on all issues, but since this a gun forum I won't say which is which, and I don't care about your views either. As gun owners, we need to hang together, regardless of our other beliefs. If there is any serious attempt to pass additional gun control legislation, even if it is not successful, I will become a one issue voter in the next election. Clinton is scared of people like me with this attitude, and other polititians should be too. We need to try to convince other gun owners that this important. Even if they disagree with a polititian on other issues, this is the time to look primarily at their record on gun rights. I plan to be especially tolerant of other gun owners who have different views from me on non-gun issues over the next two years! I have been writing my representatives at all levels every couple of weeks about gun rights and encourage others to do the same.

mrvco
January 21, 2013, 04:45 PM
Clinton is one of the savviest politicians in the last half of the last century. Look where he came from, and look how he still retains significance. That's not an endorsement, but the guy is smart.

...

I agree...
And he would like nothing more than to be back in the White House in 2016...
Hence his statement.

Kiln
January 21, 2013, 05:05 PM
I lean left on a lot of issues but gun control isn't one of them. Without getting too political, my respect for the second amendment is why I vote for the right.

Even pro gun Democrats don't see a reason for firearm ownership past hunting or sport shooting. Basically every Democrat I've heard from on the issue wants "common sense gun laws" in place.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 21, 2013, 05:18 PM
Kiln, meet one right here. I am old school Democrat. I mainly vote Libertarian, but have many local democrats that I hold with the highest regard. My sheriff is a strong democrat too, and helped fight for CCW rights in my state. The old blue dog variety. I cannot see any reason for EVER infringing on gun ownership. I am not alone either. The south offers many of us still. We do not think gun rights are free enough. The only common sense law I want, is for the government and state to abide by the same laws it would have it's citizens. I am talking about what type of weapons and restrictions. The government will never restrict their weapons, so why should I.....

tnelson31
January 21, 2013, 05:25 PM
Exactly. I generally support protection of the environment, equality for homosexuals, legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana, and women's rights to their own bodies. I will support those things if I can.

But I will toss that all aside if guns are an issue in an election. The Second Amendment gives the rest of the Bill of Rights its teeth. Guns are the issue that drives me to write letters and contribute money. Start talking about limiting the right of the People to own weapons and I become a one-issue voter.


+1 million bajillion

Kiln
January 21, 2013, 05:26 PM
CharlieDeltaJuliet: I'm not talking about people who VOTE Democrat. I'm talking specifically about Democratic politicians.

The only ones I see talking pro gun are ones in rural states where they would lose their seats for talking against it. Even these clowns are wanting more "common sense" restrictions.

There are lots of pro gun people who are aligned with the Democrat party. It is their leaders that aren't pro gun.

JustinJ
January 21, 2013, 05:35 PM
Apparently it is being silent while others tee off on liberals.

Yeah, funny how enforcement of board rules seem to get a little more lax when it comes to left bashing. It will go on and on until somebody finally says something back and then bam, suddenly the thread is locked.

hso
January 21, 2013, 05:46 PM
I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.

What he gets and was saying is that the first AWB was politically costly and that the pro2A advocates are not to be thought of as trivial opponents. Not that an AWB can't be attempted, but that it can't be done using the approach taken in the first effort. He's recommending a grass roots effort to push it using modern communications like Move On and DU can marshal (which is what we're doing too).

The frightening thing is that not only does he recognize the errors made back then, but that there are suggestions to compensate for those to make for a more effective drive to an AWB.

What WE need to do with this article is point out that Clinton is warning Antis not to trivialize RKBA advocates or they'll be defeated and/or penalized as the Antis were during his administration. WE also need to point out that the backlash against the Antis then was borne of a grassroots movement as much as political elites and the NRA and that this grassroots lesson is even better engrained in RKBA advocates. We vote more and spend more on RKBA politically than the Antis and any politician that supports an AWB will suffer the same fate as Clinton's colleagues after the AWB became law in 1994.

joeschmoe
January 21, 2013, 06:03 PM
hso,

I agree. I think we need a focused, highly visable campaign against all of the current politicians who vote for, or even propose anti 2nd amendment laws. Especially NY and federal opponents of the 2nd amendment. They need to see the backlash, and put the fear of unemployment into other would be gun grabbers.
Not just vauge republican or NRA funds, but specific funds, proffessional and volunteer campaigns against these specific traitors to our Constitution for these specific actions.

10mm Mike
January 21, 2013, 06:08 PM
Yeah, funny how enforcement of board rules seem to get a little more lax when it comes to left bashing. It will go on and on until somebody finally says something back and then bam, suddenly the thread is locked.

If it bothers you that much you could always join a liberal forum and talk guns with them... though they will probably be busy talking about their gun ban strategies.

goon
January 21, 2013, 06:19 PM
Sadly, many liberals are also just as intolerant of different views as anyone else.

Having said that, the pro-gun movement needs all the allies it can get. If a thousand flaming liberal homosexual gun owners show up in this board tomorrow asking for collective wisdom in protecting their Second Amendment rights, any personal prejudices need to get put aside and those people need to be welcomed.
Or don't. Drive potential allies away... Because that will be so much more effective.

meanmrmustard
January 21, 2013, 06:24 PM
Sadly, many liberals are also just as intolerant of different views as anyone else.

Having said that, the pro-gun movement needs all the allies it can get. If a thousand flaming liberal homosexual gun owners show up in this board tomorrow asking for collective wisdom in protecting their Second Amendment rights, any personal prejudices need to get put aside and those people need to be welcomed.
Or don't. Drive potential allies away... Because that will be so much more effective.
Why would their sexual orientation, religious beliefs, or political leanings matter on a gun forum?

If they want to learn about guns and the rights that they are given as American citizens, come on in! This is first and foremost a gun forum.

They start talking about back round checks, more laws or stricter ones, or agreement with current proposed anti-gun legislation...well, then that's when you see some of us get a hairy eyeball.

goon
January 21, 2013, 06:27 PM
Joeschmoe - I am thinking about sending a copy of my next check to the NRA to politicians in other states with a short note that the next check of that amount will go to their opponents if the Second Amendment isn't respected.

Meanmrmustard - if you flip back through this thread, you'll see that some are not able to get past such differences. But they need to if we are going to win this.

larryh1108
January 21, 2013, 06:44 PM
I am thinking about sending a copy of my next check to the NRA....with a short note that the next check of that amount will go to their opponents if the Second Amendment isn't respected.

Huh? Here I thought the NRA was all about respecting and protecting our 2nd amendment rights. Did I miss something I should know about? Did the money I recently donated mean I supported anti-2nd amendment movement? Or.... are you confused?

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 21, 2013, 07:09 PM
Gotcha Kiln, the Democratic Party is really dividing itself. Maybe that is exactly what is needed.

@10MM Mike, you might be surprised. I am a member of a Liberal gun club/forum and they are(the majority) fed up with the recent gun control push. I, like many other Democrats, support the NRA, and vote on a wide band of beliefs. I for one will not have my rights (any rights) infringed on, and always vote accordingly. Believe me, there are still millions of pro-2A democrats. That has some to do with the democrat control being lost after the first AWB.

I for one hope that this push for an AWB, cost quite a few their seats. Both Democrats and Republican that are quick to give in on the issues, need to be reminded that they can easily be replaced..

Gordon_Freeman
January 21, 2013, 07:21 PM
If it bothers you that much you could always join a liberal forum and talk guns with them... though they will probably be busy talking about their gun ban strategies.
Mike, you make a good point. It is rare to find someone who supports the president and also believes in our 2nd Amendment rights. It is because owning firearms is the ultimate expression of individual freedom and responsibility. People on the left think in terms of group identity rather than the individual. The leftists don't like the idea of individual freedom and responsibility.

Deltaboy
January 21, 2013, 11:15 PM
Wow. Just wow. I'll have to give this one to Slick Willie. He obviously gets it.

Thanks for posting this most informative link.
He was born and raised around guns in Arkansas and he been duck hunting on my neighbors farm back in the 1980S.

WCraven
January 21, 2013, 11:17 PM
It really doesn't matter which party you come from as with any war your American and you are to protect the 2nd at all cost as what makes you an American since 1776 .

Kiln
January 22, 2013, 12:01 AM
He was born and raised around guns in Arkansas and he been duck hunting on my neighbors farm back in the 1980S.
Whatever you guys say.

We're just glad he stays out of Arkansas these days.

r1derbike
January 22, 2013, 12:28 AM
What WE need to do with this article is point out that Clinton is warning Antis not to trivialize RKBA advocates or they'll be defeated and/or penalized as the Antis were during his administration. WE also need to point out that the backlash against the Antis then was borne of a grassroots movement as much as political elites and the NRA and that this grassroots lesson is even better engrained in RKBA advocates. We vote more and spend more on RKBA politically than the Antis and any politician that supports an AWB will suffer the same fate as Clinton's colleagues after the AWB became law in 1994.Exactly the point I made at the end of my earlier post! Let's not get into an argument about the left, or the right. All we need to know is we stand together to defeat this president, his agenda, and defeat his delusions of grandeur that he will become king of the new world order, which includes 2nd amendment, and other infringements. We must keep the pressure on our city, county, state, and U.S. representatives to stop this administration's insanity; punish law-abiding citizens, and molly-coddle criminals! We don't want or need England, or Australia's mistakes inside our borders! We already have one U.K. mistake inside our borders; Piers Morgan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/r1derbike/Visual%20Oddities/KingObama_zps6b54ba7c.jpg

r1derbike
January 22, 2013, 12:35 AM
Whatever you guys say.

We're just glad he stays out of Arkansas these days.I hear he sometimes passes the wee hours of the night by shuffling around his library, lights-on, looking lost, and very alone.

Ignition Override
January 22, 2013, 12:55 AM
Ms Dragon: If you ever decide to move over here, among other challenges leaving home, you will just have to be at home driving on the right side of the road.

Despite your tight gun restrictions, I'm glad that you seem to have access to some nice Enfields etc, though the cost for the gun and ammo might be higher, besides the license etc.

Have watched fellow 'Ozmate' "Jollygreenslug" several times on Youtube.

splithoof
January 22, 2013, 01:10 AM
I'd say to buy that man Bill Clinton a cigar!

michaelbsc
January 22, 2013, 01:10 AM
If it bothers you that much you could always join a liberal forum and talk guns with them... though they will probably be busy talking about their gun ban strategies.

No, The Liberal Gun Club's forum is as full of alarm at the current overreach as everyone here.

Granted there's a fair amount of "right bashing" there that's no different than the "left bashing" on most gun sites.

But apparently there's no middle of the road site. We're all too tuned in to the TV wars that polarize us to sell toothpaste commercials.

CTPhil
January 22, 2013, 07:53 AM
Mike, you make a good point. It is rare to find someone who supports the president and also believes in our 2nd Amendment rights. It is because owning firearms is the ultimate expression of individual freedom and responsibility. People on the left think in terms of group identity rather than the individual. The leftists don't like the idea of individual freedom and responsibility.
Well that is just wrong.

People leaning left enjoy individual freedom and take responsibility just like anyone else. And why would you assume that people on the left all support the president? Or that supporting the president means that you support him on every single issue? There are a lot of liberals who are unhappy with the president these days for a variety of reasons.

Again, this left vs. right stuff is not helping gun rights one bit. We are all here because we support gun rights, why must we always insist on polarizing things?

CTPhil
January 22, 2013, 08:02 AM
No, The Liberal Gun Club's forum is as full of alarm at the current overreach as everyone here.

Granted there's a fair amount of "right bashing" there that's no different than the "left bashing" on most gun sites.

But apparently there's no middle of the road site. We're all too tuned in to the TV wars that polarize us to sell toothpaste commercials.
So true. I'm a member of TLGC but only lasted about 4 posts. Yes they are as fully supportive of the 2A as anyone here. But also yes, they engage in "right bashing", which I find just as offensive as left bashing. We just need to get past the stereotyping and focus on what we have in common.

larryh1108
January 22, 2013, 08:03 AM
I don't get the left/right, liberal/conservative, etc thing any more. Our country has become so diverse that I believe the majority of people lean left or right by the topic, not by any affiliation. Some things I am left on. Some things I am right on. Certain areas I am conservative and some areas I am liberal. It depends on what is on the plate.

When I register to vote, I don't declare any party because I am not a Democrat or Republican. I look at who represents my interests better than the other. There are pro-gun Democrats and anti-gun Republicans so I vote accordingly. I can't be labeled and I won't be labeled yet many here do so when they read a post they don't agree with. Labeling is unfair and it is wrong unless you know the person's entire history and voting patterns. It is similar to profiling and that cannot help unite our community, only fracture it.

6.5x55swedish
January 22, 2013, 08:07 AM
I don't consider myself rare and I support the President... I voted for him twice. I also know several other people I hunt and shoot with who are Pro-Obama. Some of the most liberal People I have met are immigrants from Eastern Europe. They all are staunch supporters of Obama and they are also the guys who own the AR and AK Variants... They shoot, but don't hunt... but they do vote and they vote Democrat.

Our second Amendment rights on a national scale would be much more at risk if Romney was sworn in yesterday. Obama isn't going to be able to get the support to pass anything. Romney would of had the backing on the Republican side to get something through Congress and his history in MA as Gov indicates he would have pushed for tougher gun laws.

heeler
January 22, 2013, 08:13 AM
Strange beliefs.

radiotom
January 22, 2013, 08:14 AM
Strange beliefs.
Yes. They are "beliefs" and nothing more.

Browning
January 22, 2013, 08:30 AM
When I register to vote, I don't declare any party because I am not a Democrat or Republican. I look at who represents my interests better than the other. There are pro-gun Democrats and anti-gun Republicans so I vote accordingly.

I can't be labeled and I won't be labeled yet many here do so when they read a post they don't agree with. Labeling is unfair and it is wrong unless you know the person's entire history and voting patterns. It is similar to profiling and that cannot help unite our community, only fracture it.
Oh yeah, supporting supposedly 'Pro-Gun Democrats' has worked out real well recently. :rolleyes:

More pro-gun senators open to new laws (*Click*) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/18/two-more-pro-gun-democrats-open-to-new-laws/)

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/renewed-and-some-new-support-for-gun-control/

When it comes time to trash the Constitution they're right behind their more liberal brethren.

Only someone who's blind to reality or living under a rock would be under the impression that gun rights isn't a partisan issue.

CTPhil
January 22, 2013, 08:47 AM
Only someone who's blind to reality or living under a rock would be under the impression that gun rights isn't a partisan issue.
Of course it is largely a partisan issue, but as with everything political it is the middle that usually determines which way things go. The either/or approach is a loser, and gun owners will be the ones that lose.

Browning
January 22, 2013, 09:01 AM
Why pretend? :Shrug

Democrats largely give lip service to the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment because it's considered a tradition to do so, but that's all it is (lip service). Counting on them to support and defend the 2A is like counting on a chair to support your weight when it has a broken leg, it's just going to give way eventually.

And the day I lose my Second Amendment right is the day I die. Legislation isn't really a factor.

Robert
January 22, 2013, 09:11 AM
This is exactly why we don't do politics. Everytime we try it ends the same way. Locked threads, deleted posts and mods scratching their heads as to why they thought it might work this time...

If you enjoyed reading about "Bill Clinton to Democrats: Don't Trivialize Gun Culture" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!