Got to shoot a pre-ban Colt AR today. I liked it!


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DMK
March 7, 2004, 08:35 PM
I was plinking a bit with a couple twenty twos at the range this morning when a gentleman and his daughter set up next to me with an AR. I noticed right away that it was the old "A1" type with the triangle handguards, light barrel and a flash hider. Anyway, got to talking a bit and he offered to let me shoot a mag. It was even one of those classic 20 round mags, I felt like I was going back in time! ;)

Very nice rifle. Very light, noticably lighter than my Rock River HBAR Carbine.

Now I know what I'm going to do with the stripped lower in my gun safe. I don't mind the 1/12 twist. I like shooting the 55gr. stuff anyway.

Colt, Bushy, Armalite and RRA need to start making these lightweight 20" ARs again. :cuss:

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Badger Arms
March 7, 2004, 08:56 PM
They're making them lighter than the A1 these days. The 'noodle' barrel guns are being produced by Bushmaster, Oly Arms, and DPMS that I know of. My Ultra-light has a pinned M4 stock, A1 upper, A1 diameter 16" barrel, and no muzzle device. That's about as light as you can get without cutting away metal or using lighter materials. Personally, I don't like the non-standard parts.

DMK
March 7, 2004, 09:06 PM
They're making them lighter than the A1 these days. Oh yea, they have some nice light carbines and those are great, but do they make any lightweight 20" barreled ARs anymore?

Mannlicher
March 7, 2004, 10:12 PM
Every once in awhile, I bring my old AR-15 Sporter out of the safe, and take it to the range. I bought this on NIB, in '74. I think it was manufactured in the late 60s though. Even against my newer rifles, this old timer shoots fine. Weight is about 6 pounds with the20 inch barrel. This is one rifle I wont be selling.

DMK
March 7, 2004, 10:16 PM
Weight is about 6 pounds with the20 inch barrel. Yea, that's what I'm talking about!

Corey ACP
March 7, 2004, 10:50 PM
Every time I show up at one of our 3 gun matches with my oldie AR 15 pre A1, you know,...... 20" barrel, smooth shiny furniture, rubber butplate, 3 prong flash hider, no fwd assist, no brass deflector, round front sight post, original sling, I get many comments on how it shoots, how light and balanced it is. It is grerat for the multiple target stages and does well out to the max we have shot, 180 yds. The heavyweights have a place, as so do the shortys, (I have both) But sometimes you just can't go wrong with the original model.

natedog
March 8, 2004, 12:16 AM
Do any of Colts AR-15s have the A1 profile barrel?

natedog
March 8, 2004, 12:21 AM
While we're on the subject, here's what I'd want in an AR-15....
(since I won't be getting an AR till much after the ban sunsets, I'm going to go ahead and include the AW features).

1. 20", A1 profile barrel BUT with A2 style handguards

2. Flat-top reciever

3. Aimpoint Comp Ml-2 or Eotech red dot with co-witnessing iron sights

4. Bayonet lug and Vortex flash hider (just because)

5. Foreward assist and case deflector

6. A truckload of 30rd. GI magazines and 120rd. Chinese drums (not sure if I'd want to fire of the whole drum with the lightweight barrel, though).

7. 1 in 7" twist

8. A2 stock

(Man, this list keeps getting longer and longer)

444
March 8, 2004, 01:03 AM
I bought my first Colt SP1 in the early eighties. At the time I didn't make much money and I really couldn't afford to shoot it much. Eventually, I sold it and have regretted it ever since.
A couple years ago I got back into ARs in a big way. I bought a number of ARs and tricked a couple out with all the lastest gadgets. At some point I came across an SP1 at a local dealer and had to have it. Of course now it is considered a pre-ban rifle and the price reflected it. But, a couple of overtime shifts and it was mine. Just last week I had a couple days off and dug out the old SP1 and leaned it against my safe which is by my computer so I could look at it while I watched TV and surfed the net. I couldn't help but thinking that it may have been the best AR of them all. It is very nicely balanced. The weight seems to be perfect. Everything just feels so good in your hands. I also recently bought an A1 type upper that I am going to use on that lower. It is basically the same as the SP1 but has a forward assist. The reason I wanted that upper was that it was the same as what I was issued in the Army. Neither one is going to be modified in any way.
You certainly arn't alone in your love of the old SP1.

natedog
March 8, 2004, 02:17 AM
Where'd you get the A1 upper from, 444?

DMK
March 8, 2004, 01:26 PM
1. 20", A1 profile barrel BUT with A2 style handguards

2. Flat-top reciever

3. Aimpoint Comp Ml-2 or Eotech red dot with co-witnessing iron sights

4. Bayonet lug and Vortex flash hider (just because)

5. Foreward assist and case deflector

I'm planning on building that very rifle. I'm also considering buying a Cavalry Arms polymer lower (http://www.cavalryarms.com/MKII.html) for it. That will reduce the overall weight by another full pound.

DMK
March 8, 2004, 01:32 PM
BTW, Fulton Armory has some interesting rifles, complete uppers and individual parts for you M16A1/Colt SP1 fans:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/GEN_II.htm#LegacyRifle

http://www.fulton-armory.com/GEN_II.htm#LegacyUppers

They have the slick side uppers and light weight barrels on their AR parts page:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M6Parts3.htm#UpperParts

444
March 8, 2004, 05:52 PM
"Where'd you get the A1 upper from, 444?"


http://www.cdnninvestments.com/arsp1upnewco.html

natedog
March 8, 2004, 06:35 PM
I don't think any AR-15 manufactuers are churning out 20" A1 barrels with the 1-7" twist, or even 1-9" twist. Although I do prefer the 55gr. M193 in my Mini-14 (which is a 1-9" twist), it should be able to shoot 62gr. well (for a Mini :) ). I'd like that same capability in an AR-15, to shoot bullets of pretty much any weight (well, I don't think the 70-77gr. stabilize in 1-9").

c_yeager
March 9, 2004, 02:51 AM
Oh yea, they have some nice light carbines and those are great, but do they make any lightweight 20" barreled ARs anymore?

Bushmaster makes a 20" government profile barrel. I believe that they will even sell you an assembled upper if you ask them nicely.

1 in 9 twist and chrome lined. Available in either preban or post.

artherd
March 9, 2004, 04:26 AM
well, I don't think the 70-77gr. stabilize in 1-9".

Some owners report great (Sub MOA at 100yd at least) groups with 77gr SMK and 1:9 twist. Some also not so good.

I think most people agree a 1:7" is optiomal by far however.

natedog
March 9, 2004, 06:46 PM
Isn't the Government Profile barrel an A2 style, which is skinny up to the front sight, and then heavy barreled from the front sight block to the muzzle?

DMK
March 9, 2004, 07:32 PM
Isn't the Government Profile barrel an A2 style, which is skinny up to the front sight, and then heavy barreled from the front sight block to the muzzle? Yes. The A1/SP1 barrel is skinny all the way down.

Here's Bushmaster's 20" A2 profile barrel (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl-20a2.asp):

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-20a2a.jpg

Here's their A1 profile 16" carbine barrel (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl-16sla.asp): (They need to make one of these in 20")

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16sla.jpg

From what I understand, Bushmaster will assemble a complete upper for you if you buy all the required parts from them.

444
March 10, 2004, 09:16 PM
I got my new upper today. It looks great. I believe them that it is brand spanken new.
One minor problem that they don't mention in their adds. It is a small pin upper. For those that arn't familiar, Colt didn't use the same size pivot pin that all other manufacturers use. My SP1 uses a large pin. This upper is a small pin. But, I had several adapter pins on hand so it wasn't a big deal. It doesn't look exactly right because there is a slotted screw where the pin should be, but it is a very minor thing that most people would never notice. So, I now have a rifle almost exactly like the one I was issued in the big green machine in 1981. The only difference is the selector only has two positions.

DMK
March 10, 2004, 10:18 PM
Hey that's cool 444! Sounds like a nice rifle.

Poodleshooter
March 12, 2004, 04:17 PM
I think most people agree a 1:7" is optiomal by far however.
Not when it blows varmint bullets to bits like my 1x7 Colt HBAR does.
I'd trade for a 1x9 in a heartbeat. I only shoot reduced course highpower, so I never need to stabilize anything over 68grs anyway.

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