357 gyrojet?


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Reefinmike
January 21, 2013, 03:43 AM
I know this is all way out there, but today as I was sorting out some brass and general post range day cleanup, I removed the 1911 that I was cc'ing as well as a few 357 mag rounds I had in my pocket. As I was sorting brass, I just decided for the heck of it, to clear the 1911 and see if I could drop a 357 down the pipe. It fit just fine!

I was wondering if... IF... theoretically, If you were to have a 357 load with a very very tight crimp, a nice soft federal primer, and a slow burning rifle powder, that if you drop it down a 1911 barrel and pull the trigger, it would pop the primer out and the powder would continue to burn, turning the cartridge into a mini rocket.

of course this is all theoretical bs and Id never attempt to try it, but wouldnt that be cool to see a self propelled fully intact 357 round?

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ljnowell
January 21, 2013, 03:54 AM
No.

Gryffydd
January 21, 2013, 10:14 AM
I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're even describing. Appropriate user name perhaps?

ArchAngelCD
January 21, 2013, 10:19 AM
Slow is a relative term when it comes to smokeless powders. Milliseconds come to mind.

PapaG
January 21, 2013, 10:30 AM
The original gyro jet was an abject failure....and it had three angled exhaust ports.

Patocazador
January 21, 2013, 10:55 AM
The original gyro jet was an abject failure....and it had three angled exhaust ports.
If you can find any ammo for the Gyro Jet, it's worth a fortune as a collectible.

Jesse Heywood
January 21, 2013, 02:41 PM
Theoretically, the case sidewalls will rupture and spew brass fragments from the gun, probably into your hand(s) and face. It shouldn't be bad enough to destroy the gun or kill you, but the results are guaranteed to be painful and will do nothing to improve your good looks.

Shadow 7D
January 21, 2013, 02:45 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=528911

ljnowell
January 21, 2013, 02:48 PM
Theoretically, the case sidewalls will rupture and spew brass fragments from the gun, probably into your hand(s) and face. It shouldn't be bad enough to destroy the gun or kill you, but the results are guaranteed to be painful and will do nothing to improve your good looks.

No, it wouldnt. There would be nearly no pressure, becase the case would rupture venting all the pressure out the barrel. Many people have accidently fired a 9mm in a 40, same thing. A real light pop, bullet usually travels very slow, in some cases only a few feet. No contained burn = no pressure.

GLOOB
January 21, 2013, 05:17 PM
I'll play along.

First off, even a slow 50BMG powder wouldn't work. If you got the powder to ignite, at all, it would still be wayyyy too fast to make a rocket. If you don't get enough pressure to blow the case up, you probably wouldn't even get ignition. Just a squib.

But I can imagine this "working" if you found the right fuel, capped the case with a very light tip (maybe just plug the top of the case with a little sheet of brass soldered over the top), and you reamed out the flash hole.

Reefinmike
January 21, 2013, 05:45 PM
gryffyd- no, my name is referring to the fact that another hobby/my business is marine reef aquariums, but I get where that could be misconstrued.

as stated, everything is theoretical, I wouldnt ever do this unless I had a gun I didnt care to possibly destroy, a vice and a very long string tied to the trigger.

gloob- you have some ideas there. brass welding(is that even a real thing?) a brass slug on top would probably be the best bet. I was thinking a very very tight roll crimp might work, its either the bullet or the primer that pops out. maybe even ream out the primer pocket so that the primer barely wants to stay in? maybe if you were to crush down the powder and somehow make a solid plug that perfectly fits in the case it would have a more controled burn? kind of like model rocket rockets?

Its all in the name of fun, would you rather see another post asking where to find $26/k cci primes, h335 powder and general banter about price gouging :)

mdi
January 21, 2013, 06:15 PM
I think if you could find the right propellant, you would have to drill vent holes in the case head instead of hoping the primer would blow out.

Gryffydd
January 21, 2013, 07:25 PM
you would have to drill vent holes in the case head instead of hoping the primer would blow out.

Yeah, this is the part that really has me confused. I'm not really sure why one would expect "it would pop the primer out" to happen.

rcmodel
January 21, 2013, 08:31 PM
Because if the .357 was loaded with slow burning rifle powder as the OP suggested?

Thats what it would do.

Here is what happens to unconfined cartridges when they ignite.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7001165&postcount=15

Notice the .223 rifle round blew the primer out of the case and the powder burned out through the flash hole without bursting the case or moving the bullet out of the case.

The thing is though, even if the .357 case blew the primer out and ignited the slow rifle powder?

It would not be stable, and would exit the barrel not like a spin stabilize Gyro-jet rocket.
But like a fireworks pinwheel.

rc

blarby
January 21, 2013, 08:52 PM
If you want to make a solid rocket pistol, just make one.

Solid rocket boosters are not hard to make.

A brass case would be a great nozzle- its just angled wrong at the exhaust port.

And its open topped- great for multiple stages !

Its not likely to generate the force needed to spin through rifling, however- at that size.

Gryffydd
January 21, 2013, 09:07 PM
There's a bit of a difference between a round just hanging out in a tube and being ignited via heat and a round sitting in a barrel and ignited via a firing pin with a bolt face on one side. I would expect exactly what you see in Shadow 7D's link in this scenario. A pierced primer perhaps, but not a completely missing primer.

What you show in your loose round tests is also exactly what I've seen before in similar tests. It seems like when things aren't held in place on any axis, the case tends to move a lot faster than the bullet. But in this scenario the case & primer would have the bolt face to contend with, so I'm not sure where the primer is supposed to go when it gets ignited.

rcmodel
January 21, 2013, 09:16 PM
I believe it would go foreword at least far enough for the primer to blow out just from the 1911 firing pin impact.

The 9mm in a .40 and 30-30 in a .410 ones you see in the photos were held in place by the extractor or rim, or the firing pin would not have hit them.

A loose .357 in a 1911 would have to be held back by gravity.
And the long travel firing pin would knock it away from the breech-face far enough for the primer to pop out.

rc

Reefinmike
January 21, 2013, 09:34 PM
thanks for the input as always RC and others. accuracy- of course it wouldnt be accurate at all, would probably go a handful of feet before tumbling. after searching through my odds n ends range brass, it looks like a 41 remington magnum with the case rim trimmed off would be a nice fit down a 45 barrel. a loose primer pocket would probably be a must as well as a permanently affixed bullet and maybe even opening up the flash hole some to control the burn rate.

heck, a 41 mag case nearly fits in a 45 mag. trim it down some and use a wadcutter style "plug" and then the user can hand cycle the "repeating pocket rocket"

now we just need someone with a spare 45 they dont mind experimenting with!

Ex
January 21, 2013, 09:45 PM
Mike, hopefully you're not asking for an Ed Brown or such? ;)

rcmodel
January 21, 2013, 09:50 PM
now we just need someone with a spare 45 they dont mind experimenting with! Shirley, You are not serious!

We don't need any more mad bomber accidents in the news.

Enough "Crazy Gun Nut" stuff in the news already with three gun-show ND shootings over the weekend!!

rc

Reefinmike
January 21, 2013, 09:50 PM
a hipoint would probably work just as well for a rocket launcher. accepting donations ;)
rc- im not testing the idea, but welcome others to do it in a safe manner(vice it up and string the trigger and have something between you and the gun)

Ex
January 21, 2013, 09:54 PM
Funny you mention hipoint... have you seen the youtube where the guys POUND a bolt into the barrel TRYING to destroy the gun? Crazy, not recommended, and amazing the abuse it withstood!

rcmodel
January 21, 2013, 09:54 PM
WTH for?

Even if it works, it won't work to hit anything with.

rc

Reefinmike
January 21, 2013, 09:58 PM
ex- yeah, ive seen that video, amazing what abuse some guns can take.

rc- for experimentation in the sake of science! Im sure you have a couple spares laying around, hop to it!(sarcasm)

TooManyToys
January 22, 2013, 12:00 AM
Reefinmike, sounds like you have it pretty well figgured out with the .41 mage case & modified primer hole. Now just add propellent from an Estes model rocket engine and your all set. haha!

mdi
January 22, 2013, 12:37 PM
WTH for?

Even if it works, it won't work to hit anything with.

rc
Sometimes a man just has to know. All knowledge is good...

col.lemat
January 22, 2013, 12:56 PM
Sounds like Darwinism to me, Go for it dude

Legion489
January 22, 2013, 01:08 PM
Simple enough to try. Get a hot plate and a cardboard box about 6" higher than the case and set the case on the hot plate. Put a pipe or "barrel" around it if you want. There will be a "bang/thump" as the primer/powder blows and the bullet hits the box. Not too impressive OR dangerious. No handgun bullets (.45ACP, 44 Mag, .357 Mag) OR rifle bullets (.223, .308, .30-06) put more than a dent in the box at six inches. At eight inches higher than the case, the bullets didn't even hit the box in most cases (pun not intended, just lucky) and none dented the box. Anyway this will let you watch and not blow up a gun.

ljnowell
January 22, 2013, 11:32 PM
Simple enough to try. Get a hot plate and a cardboard box about 6" higher than the case and set the case on the hot plate. Put a pipe or "barrel" around it if you want. There will be a "bang/thump" as the primer/powder blows and the bullet hits the box. Not too impressive OR dangerious. No handgun bullets (.45ACP, 44 Mag, .357 Mag) OR rifle bullets (.223, .308, .30-06) put more than a dent in the box at six inches. At eight inches higher than the case, the bullets didn't even hit the box in most cases (pun not intended, just lucky) and none dented the box. Anyway this will let you watch and not blow up a gun.

Dont count on that. The bullet may not, but the primer will. One of our members, may have been RC, did a test like that with HVAC ductwork. Primers blew through it.

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