[GW45]

A customer walked in and told me he could not get the slide to the rear once he chambered a 9mm Speer Gold Dot 147gr in his CZ 75.

I have the exact same gun and ammo - but haven't got a chance to take it to the range. So I went home to see if it was his gun alone or both of the ones we had.

It chambered just fine - pulling the slide to the rear was next to impossible....:(

It seems that the 124gr will work fine (chambering and extracting)going to the range tomorrow to see how it does.

So I posted this to let everyone know not to try the Speer 147gr Gold Dot in thier CZ 75.

[WESHOOT2]

In your gun, and your friend's.

Not all guns are the same.

The 9x19 might respond better to lighter bullets (that don't engage the throat, ay?).

[MoNsTeR]

That would be my guess too, the bullet is being gripped by the rifling. I had this problem loading Rainier 124FP's in my Baby Eagle. When loaded long enough to feed, the bullet shoulder would lodge in the barrel throat.

They might function OK but if you had to clear a misfire you'd be screwed.

[GW45]

WESHOOT2,

I read your post and went back and tried the 2 CZ 75's in the back with the 147gr Gold Dot and their slides also stick when the Speer is chambered. I almost didn't get one to open.

We have tried the ammo in other pistols (H&K, Sig, Glock, Taurus and Ruger) and they did function - just the CZ 75 doesn't like them.

I just don't want people buying the Speer 147gr Got Dot and getting it stuck in their CZ's. It's $15 a box and you can get another box for that price that will function properly.

[WESHOOT2]

bummer,eh?

[CZF]

Very interesting. I know i had some older SPeer 147 that i shot thru my CZ75.

I think 147 gr is a feeble round, so i'll never carry it for defense.
Sounds like a good practice for 75B owners, too


Good that you posted such information..,ight save someone's
life. Great that you learned this at home, and not on the street.

[cratz2]

I just tried a 147 Silvertip in the chamber of my EAA Silver Team. Not quite a CZ, but close. Fit just fine. Slide closed easily and ejected with no problem.

I think the 147 Gr 9mm penetrates too much and you lose a lot of velocity. Not sure why someone would want to go with that has an option for SD. If you want 147 for super penetration, get FMJ.

[Zak Smith]

If you have any of this ammo left, can you measure the cartridge over-all length (OAL) and post it? (Use a dial caliper.)

In MY CZ's, the 147gr Gold Dot's chamber fine at 1.165", but don't reliability feed through my mags until 1.156". I've shot quite a bit of different 147gr GD loads from 1.142" - 1.155" with no problems.

The CZ's do seem to have less "freebore" in front of the chamber than some other common 9mms. I had this probably particularly with Hornady XTP bullets, as described in this TFL thread: "Ogive, those OAL blues." (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133593) With those, I did find that they would still fire fine even if I could not retract the slide.

As for 147gr in 9mm being a poor choice, it's actually about equal to the 124gr +P in FBI protocol penetration/expansion tests.

From the calibers-l list:

After cloth in gel:

124/6 GD 16/.54
124/9 +P GD 20/.53
147/9 GD 18/.55


Also, you can look on AmmoLab.com (
http://www.ammolab.com/Test%20Results.htm ) for pictures of similar tests.

Or, you can look at my compilation of FBI data (http://demigod.org/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php?sort=grade1). In particular, if you "grade" the loads based on the average penetration * expansion (ie, a value proportional to wound volume) for both bare and clothed gelation, two of the top four 9mm rounds are 147gr; the other two are 124gr.

Yes, the old 147gr designs had expansion problems, but the new generations of 147gr bullets expand fine. The Gold Dot is no exception.

If a .45ACP JHP can be designed to expand when fired at 850 fps (e.g. the HydraShok, which will expand to about 0.66 - 0.71"), what makes you think a 147gr 9mm JHP can't be designed to expand properly at 950 - 1050 fps?

regards
Zak

[WESHOOT2]

i know that 147's can expand fine fine fine, but I want my .355-.357" bullets to impact at over 1300fps, and I'm still having some difficulty with that facet of operation...........:banghead:

Know what I mean?

MORE THAN A HOLE

[PCRCCW]

1300 FPS...whats so hard about that? Corbon/Fed/Win in 115 and 124/7 are right up there....thats where I like them also.....
For those little .355" bullets anyway....15-16 of them.
Shoot well

[BevrFevr]

Are these 147's that get wedged in damaged in any way after taking them out?

My thinking is if you repeated this process to a single round would it get longer or shorter?

Increasing chamber pressures or a new fangled bullet puller?

Either way thanks for the info.

I have never found that 147's were desirable to shoot anyways. I always get reduced accuracy(but acceptable) with them.

I believe .124's to be the sweet spot in 9mm. 115's are ok and 147's are ok but they are not 124's.

Thanks for this important info though!
-bevr

[Zak Smith]

I have both the "new-style" and "old-style" Gold Dot bullets on hand. The old ones have "triangular" petals of copper going into the HP, the new ones look more "rounded".

At the same OAL, the 124gr Gold Dots of the old style will nudge the rifling in my CZ 75 COMPACT; the new style headspaces freely on the case mouth as it should.

Go figure.

-z

[WESHOOT2]

I meant 147's going 1300fps. :banghead:

[Island Beretta]

Winchester SXT 9mm 147gr copper jacket HP.. the best 147 gr around, IMHO..

Try it ! You might like it!!:what:

[Zak Smith]

Dane Burns says he can load a 147gr @ 1400fps in his 9x23's.

-z

[WESHOOT2]

Or my 38 Supers :what: but really really hard from my 9x19's.