How do you prove a gun is C&R elgible


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bigtubby
January 22, 2013, 09:58 AM
Won a nice K-22 Target masterpiece on a auction sight thought I would bring it in on my C&R license but the seller who is a FFL has no interest in verifing its age. I asked him to call S&W with the serial # his response "I cant be on hold all day" I asked him to look in the S&WSC his response" I don't have that book" I don't really think he is a gun guy as he owns or runs a mini mart. He then tells me it has to go thru a "real" FFL I guess I will just pay the extra money thru my 01 FFL. Any Idea's on how I can easily prove its age the serial # dates it to 1948

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Madcap_Magician
January 22, 2013, 10:43 AM
I don't think it's relevant... he doesn't have to agree to ship to a C&R licensee, though it's certainly a pain in the butt. Honestly I would have checked first to see if he would do that.

rklessdriver
January 22, 2013, 11:34 AM
A lot of people are totally ignorant of 03 C&R weapons and liscense's. I've had this come up a number of times with 01 FFL dealers on GB and GA... I always contact the seller first to make sure they know the law... if they arn't willing to ship a C&R eligible weapon to me (a C&R holder) then I don't bother to give them my business....

Fact is he probally dosen't want to research it and dosen't give a crap if you do and your not going to prove anything to him... his response to you makes it totally clear that to him your C&R is not a "REAL FFL".

If you really want the gun, your going to have to pay the transfer and fill out a 4473.
Will

ultramag44
January 22, 2013, 12:46 PM
I'll add this, some UPS & FedEx hubs refuse to honor a C&R too! One fellow printed documentation from UPS's own site and showed it to the station manager. The guy just said, "No"

bigtubby
January 22, 2013, 05:11 PM
I don't think I will have to fill out a 4473 as my receiving FFl can just do a transfer to me with my C&R I believe?

Guillermo
January 22, 2013, 06:21 PM
One fellow printed documentation from UPS's own site and showed it to the station manager. The guy just said, "No"

I would document that and have his job.

Twmaster
January 22, 2013, 06:34 PM
I don't think I will have to fill out a 4473 as my receiving FFl can just do a transfer to me with my C&R I believe?
This.

Providing your FFL is bright enough to figure out the gun's age.

I always ask a seller first whether they'll take my C&R FFL. More than a couple of GB sellers are on my NO BUY list.

bigtubby
January 22, 2013, 06:38 PM
My FFL is bright enough thankfully, otherwise it is not just the $25.00 transfer fee here in Nevada we get the privilege of Paying a $25.00 BGC fee as well!!

dullone
January 22, 2013, 08:36 PM
Won a nice K-22 Target masterpiece on a auction sight thought I would bring it in on my C&R license but the seller who is a FFL has no interest in verifing its age. I asked him to call S&W with the serial # his response "I cant be on hold all day" I asked him to look in the S&WSC his response" I don't have that book" I don't really think he is a gun guy as he owns or runs a mini mart. He then tells me it has to go thru a "real" FFL I guess I will just pay the extra money thru my 01 FFL. Any Idea's on how I can easily prove its age the serial # dates it to 1948
You go to the ATF's Curio and Relic list (avail. online) and see it the gun is listed. If not there....SOL

bigtubby
January 22, 2013, 08:45 PM
I was under the impression any gun (not full auto) that is 50 yrs old or older automatically qualifies. Do they put out a new list once or twice a year? I am pretty sure they don't have to be listed but I have been wrong before!!

From the ATF website

ATF Home
Publications
Firearms
Curios or Relics List
Update January 2009 through June 2010

Curios or Relics List — Update January 2009 through June 2010

Firearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF’s C&R list. However, if your C&R item is regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and you desire removal from the provisions of the NFA, you must submit the firearm to the Firearms Technology Branch for evaluation and a formal classification.

BYJO4
January 22, 2013, 09:31 PM
I would just have it shipped to my FFL and be done with it.

bigtubby
January 22, 2013, 09:37 PM
I would to but it amounts to a extra $50.00 but I should have contacted the seller first that was all my fault.

Driftwood Johnson
January 22, 2013, 09:44 PM
Howdy

This is really easy.

S&W changed over from model names to model numbers in 1957. Before 1957 the K-22 was known as the K-22. Afterwards it was known as the Model 17. Open up the crane. If it says MOD 17 inside (Model 17) or MOD 17-3 or anything like that it was made after 1957.

If it doesn't have a Model number on the frame under the crane, but instead has some assembly numbers, it is a K-22 and was made before 1957. So it is more than 50 years old. Period. In addition, S&W revolvers made before 1957 usually have the gun's serial number appear in 4 distinct locations. Bottom of the butt, underside of the barrel, rear of the cylinder and underside of the extractor star. I have never seen a post 1957 Smith that has the SN anyplace other than the bottom of the butt.

But a model number on the frame under the crane is the dead giveaway. No model number and it was made before 1957, and is at least 50 years old. I have bought plenty of old Smiths on my C&R armed with just that information alone. Then again, I usually have a copy of the SCSW handy anyway to look up SNs.

If it is 50 years old, it is C&R. Period. You don't have to look it up on any list. The dealer may or may not honor that information, that is his right. In fact, he can refuse any sale he wants to for any reason he chooses. But if there ain't a model number under the crane, it is over 50 years old (do the math) and it is C&R.

Here is a great site to learn all about C&R.

http://www.cruffler.com/

At the top of this photo is my K-22, that shipped in 1932. I bought it at auction on my C&R, no questions asked. For comparison in the middle is my Model 17-3 that I bought brand, spanky new in 1975. Bought the silly MIM, lock equipped, stainless, 10 shot 617 on a whim a few years ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/k22m1761702.jpg

gazpacho
January 22, 2013, 09:53 PM
Complete your transaction. Honor your bid.

Then, when it comes time to rate your experience, honestly state that the seller refused to ship a C&R firearm to a C&R Licensee.

Let other potential buyers know the truth.

Twmaster
January 23, 2013, 02:35 PM
You go to the ATF's Curio and Relic list (avail. online) and see it the gun is listed. If not there....SOL

Wrong. See the bottom paragraph on post #10.

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