As crime increases we need our guns


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gym
January 22, 2013, 03:42 PM
earlier this morning, we had an Officer involved shooting, less than a mile from my home in Vero Beach, Known as a "safe" place to live. More fortune 500 CEO's have homes here than any place else. Last week they "locked down my development and found a bad guy with the use of, helicopters, hiding behind one of the homes.
And on Sunday my wifes best friend was at an unveiling, and they broke into the daughters car, and took her bag, This led into a persuit, ending up locking down a development in Sunrise, "FL" and the Son inlaw, and daughter being hit by the Perp with his new Mercedes SUV, "price sticker still on the window". while giving chase.
They called the canine unit and the dog bit the perp and pulled him out of a tree.
Both kids suffered bad bruises all over their bodys.
Police knew of this guy and told them that this Cemetary was "his turf", he regularlly works there breaking into vechicles and assulting people who come to grieve.
And he owned the brand new Mercedes SUV, he had called his brother inlaw to report it stolen, So where is this so called safe place to live where you don't need a gun?
The kid who chased the guy down was very lucky that no weapon, "other than the vechicle" was used.
My wife won't carry so I got her a pink stun gun, with a light, for "walking around" at the gun show last week. When are they going to wake the hell up./
This guy and guys like him, should be "kept in jail" if you know he routinelly robs people and is a violent felon, why is he out of jail again?

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Skribs
January 22, 2013, 03:48 PM
This guy and guys like him, should be "kept in jail" if you know he routinelly robs people and is a violent felon, why is he out of jail again?

My point exactly! Not to get too political (I hope) but we need to get rid of victimless crimes so we can free up the jails for violent offenders. Put violent offenders in jail, and there's no reason to do background checks or restrict guns to law abiding citizens (because if we can't trust him with a rifle, it's because he's IN JAIL).

My plan would increase police capabilities to deal with violent offenders by reducing their time focusing on victimless crimes, increase tax revenue from previously-under-the-table-only professions, reduce violence in our society, and reduce the overhead required to regulate the gun industry. All in all, I see no downside. Unless you're a hoplophobe or violent criminal. Then I see a downside.

45_auto
January 22, 2013, 03:53 PM
As crime increases we need our guns

You do realize that violent crimes are at a historical low?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/glance/viort.cfm

Pointshoot
January 22, 2013, 04:05 PM
Fact is, the police can't be everywhere and they arent legally obligated to protect you.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162325,00.html

So, ultimately it comes down to you.

This is the cold, hard reality no matter if the overall violent crime trends increase or not.

WALKERs210
January 22, 2013, 04:05 PM
It seems that if LEO's had a little more "freedom" to handle situations like it was when I was a kid. You knew that even if the local police knew you and you parents he could and most likely put a world of hurt on you then you wound have to go home where it was worse. Brings to mind one boy/man I knew, he had been picked up for something, officer put him in back seat of the patrol car. No handcuffs, didn't close the door, he sat there like a rock, he told me that he was not stupid enough to even get out of the car.
I am not saying that each and every situation warrants a butt kicking but if the fear of it was there or the fear of going home to Mama thing might get better??

Texan Scott
January 22, 2013, 05:58 PM
Violent crime may be down nationwide... but that doesn't mean it's not on the increase in localized areas. Mine's one of those. We're a collection of smallish sleepy towns spread 20-30 minutes apart, with ranches in between. Thing is, the longer the economy hurts, the worse the long term unemployment situation gets.

As a businessman in my community, I have to say the increase in public intoxication and obvious drug use is both apparent and alarming. My wife works in customer service with a major retailer and closely with their theft, fraud, and security team. The number of violent assaults related to frustrated attempts at theft by fraud or theft by taking are up noticeably, as are armed robberies of businesses- we've had three recently, almost unheard of here.

It's to the point that she fears for her safety leaving work for fear of being recognizable as a member of staff with access to large amounts of money. She's pro-2a, and has always wanted guns in the house, but this is the first time she's approached me about getting her own chl and asking my opinions about things like off-body carry etc.

Our local chief of police and county sherrif went to our local paper last week to get a weekend edition story appealing to the public to support increased funding for the hiring of more officers. Their contention is also that hard economic times and increased drug trafficking in the area (the two things being not altogether unrelated) have led to an increase in crime they lack the manpower to address. That is NOT comforting.

Things are not getting better everywhere, and Washington DC seems further and further removed from small-town America. I'm definitely holding on to my guns.

gym
January 22, 2013, 06:48 PM
Like Scott said it's up where I am now, and some of the new guys don't know most of us old timers, but coming from NYC, BKLYN and Queens, I know plenty about crime, 43 yrs of carrying, and a half a dozen gun involved incidents. This is different, this is a rural upscale community, "like Boca was", and every night now there are shootings, 3 or 4 years ago, there just weren't any at all.
If you go down south to Broward, it's like Dodge city at the peak of the wild west. They are dropping a half dozen bodies a night from Miami to Boynton Beach.
Having been here and having owned a 40,000 sq ft gym here, I know what I see, and this is indeed a growing problem, it escalates monthly.
we had the Sherriff come in and tell us that they can't protect us, in no uncertain words, they don't have the manpower, he told homeowners to have a gun,many still don't.
I have no problem shooting someone, who is a threat, as using guns is nothing new to me, but I actually have to tell my next door neighboors to close their garage door,and women not to walk their dogs alone at night, because they are not prepared for these kinds of threats at 75 yrs old.
I see more bad than good coming down the road, when you have an affluent community surrounded by less fortunate folks you have problems, you don't rob poor people if you are a good theif.

oneounceload
January 22, 2013, 06:58 PM
What happened to our (FL) three strikes law?

hueyville
January 22, 2013, 07:47 PM
The crime according to community/location idea holds very true for me. I have lived in the same house for almost 20 years and not heard of a single crime, even a stolen lawnmower or mail ever. My business is about 8 miles form my home and there is a crime a day around it for the most part. Never seen a stranger in my yard at home, there is an attempted burglary at my business about every 1.5 years even with cameras inside and out.

gym
January 22, 2013, 08:02 PM
Fifteen minutes after my buddy left his Garage door open, someone stole all his power tools and mower, about a year ago. Four years ago nothing like that ever happened. It's a nightlly thing here now. We had 22 cars hit in one night about 6 months ago. We finally convinced the Homeowners association to hire a gaurd, now it went down a lot.
But we had a a shooting this morning and another on Sunday, in the township.
That is big news for Vero.
While typing this I just got an email about using elderlly people to lure people to a vechicle, in a parking lot, and then force them in at gunpoint, also using kids, it was sent to me by a reliable source and said it was already fact checked.

TNBilly
January 22, 2013, 08:03 PM
after reading all the comments in this thread I couldn't help but ask, is violent crime really down or is it possible violent crime is being not, mis, or otherwise under reported?

mrvco
January 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
The national crime statistics lag by a couple of years, but I'd say we're probably starting to trend up a bit... but even if it is still declining or flat... that doesn't mean that the crime that is occurring isn't occurring in different locations now, so it may seem like more to those in those locations.

icanthitabarn
January 22, 2013, 10:52 PM
Like Frank said in Scarface You believe he was a stooly because Sosa said he was?

gym
January 22, 2013, 11:42 PM
That chart is showing me that there is more "violent crime, in the South" than any of the rest of the country. Maybe we are getting the unemployed and low income folks moving from the northern region to the warm climate of the southern states. Heck if your going to be broke, you may as well be warm.
There aren't jobs unless you are in the service business. especially where I am now.
No fanncy restaurants like in Boca, or exclusive high end stores like Misner park and FT Lauderdale. It's a mix of redneck and retired people.
As work dries up there are bills to pay, child support to meet and no place that is hireing.
I have heard twice of folks being robbed down by the beach, one I spoke to , and ex marine vet in his 70's he cracked 2 gangbangers who pushed his wife trying to extort money, police arrested them, here,getting ice cream,at a landmark "ice cream stand" that is an institution in this town.I go by what I see and hear myself. News is skewed, there is an uptick in crime in Del rey on up to Vero and especially in west palm beach, every day it's on the news, one after the other.
Older folks have a tendancy to not be aware of what is going on around them. My doctor even told me not to leave my gun in the car in the hospital lot. He told the gaurd it was ok for me to bring it in.
Only because they were breaking into cars in the emergency room lot. I had taken the mag out but he insisted. Another doctor asked if I was armed, when I told him it was in the car, he actually asked me to please get it, because someone had been in a neighbooring hospital with a weapon and they locked it down. This is very disturbing to see. I told them That it was illegal but both insisted that it was an emergency and they would take responsibility, I left it in the car.
I know what I see and hear, and it's worse here. maybe it's just an anomilly but it's not a guess.
I am looking towards Texas myself, and my wife is interested now in moving. I have seen this before I know how it ends up.
You are probablly safer in South Beach "proper" as it's patrolled like the UN, but wander off a few blocks and you might get killed, like Miami, they have real patrols, we have 60 year old white haired guys trying to make extra money. The same with Los Solice, in Ft lauderdale, my partner has Squiqqies "a well known pizza parlor down there, it's a very well patroled area, that's where the tourists go.But stick to the main drag. Comare it to wandering off the strip in Vegas. Homestead, Sunrise, Hollywood, Davie, that was my ATM route, there are some scummy places surrounding the good neighboorhoods in FL, just like many other places.

VVelox
January 23, 2013, 01:52 AM
As another has stated, crime has been going down.

But regardless of that, it does not matter if it is high or low. A firearm is a type of insurance one keeps even in good times as those times don't last forever.

Halal Pork
January 23, 2013, 03:30 AM
To address the OP, even if you find yourself a Mayberry, the responsibility to have firearms is just as great. Where my house is now it would seem there's nothing to worry about. However, even a bit out in the sticks, drugs are a problem, particularly meth.

I stated in a recent post that Florida had become an out of control crime scene. Another poster said I was wrong and I started digging into some FDLE-posted stats. Seems the other poster was 100% correct that crime in FL is way down. So it's a matter of perspective. I guess I'm just more aware of things that may have gone unnoticed in the past.

gym
January 23, 2013, 08:57 PM
Those stats are never right, Sometimes they are years off, unless you have the latest demographics you can only tell by what you see around you.
Having lived in NYC, and seen shootings all the time, I can tell you, that Crime is up in South FL. I know at least 6 people who live in "good" areas like Boca, and Coral Springs, who have been robbed at gunpoint in the last year.
Also being a tourist based economy, much crime goes unreported here in FL. It will keep out the Tourists.
We always had the heists and drug deals down South, but now we are getting more shootings creeping up north along the treasure coast.
Vero had like 1 murder in several years when I moved here. Now it's common place for a shooting to be on the news in the area. They just try to keep it local.
My wifes friends were run down on Sunday, at an unveiling, in a cemetary in Sunrise, when a man stole the daughters hand bag from the car during the service. My ex partner got robbed a month ago doing what I did for him for years, "ATM" machine loading and repair "part time". They got him for 60K. This is all relatively new, then this week a deputy involved shooting a mile from my house, and another Kid from my development involved in a felony drug case two days ago. It's getting worse, the stats are skewed.
No Johnny I an 64, but my weapon was in the car locked in the trunk in a holster. The emergency room doctor "in charge" asked me to get it, as he knows me,along with my doctor. The reason was a crazy or unbalanced man had caused a lockdown of another local hospital, he feared that the guy might come on to the grounds of our local hospital.
I didn't think it was a good idea, as I am familiar with the law, but almost did get it as he was the athority in charge, He said he would feel more comfortable if I got my weapon until they got the all clear signal.
I don't know the technicality here.
I did ATM loading "alone" for my partner in the gym, but carrying a hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand alone, is not the smartest thing to do. It's been 6 years since I did it so I can mention it now, but he "is" crazy IMO, still doing it. He has 700 machines in FL.
People with guns "believe me or not" I am not afraid of, "it's a risk you take" if I am aware and in the open, up until about five years ago, I always feared someone walking up behind me and just poping me in the head. Eventually it got to me, as he would not give me a back up person.
Now the bank won't allow him to pick up any more, "recent' and he needed to get a location, where they deliver the cash. Believe it or not, there are many guys doing this out of their house. It pays unbelievable money, 1 good machine will make you a thousand a month.
But crime is up Johnny, I used to do SB also, a dozen spots, pizza, shops, the hotels, I did the building that the Williams sisters live, the Mandrin Oriental Hotel, and many more. The security there is great, I never felt threatned, just watched for a tail.
That is like the UN, when I worked NYC, it's so full of LEO of every shape and Bureau, no one gets away, and you really have to be stupid to try a robbery in those spots.
No amount of guns is going to help you in an ambush. You know about the Jewlers etc.
That's another story, but regular folks are shooting each other at an alarming rate this past year.
I kind of notice these things, actually more since I left Broward where I owned the The World Gym.

Walkalong
January 24, 2013, 07:44 AM
As crime increases we need our gunsAnd millions of new gun owners over the last few years agree, stats or no stats.

Double Naught Spy
January 24, 2013, 10:41 AM
Personally, I think that if you go with "As crime increases we need our guns" then you have to go with "As crime decreases, we don't need our guns."

In reality, it really isn't "crime" and what we are talking about is crime rates. Crime rates don't matter when a given crime to an individual can happen regardless of crime rates. This is why people in areas with very low crime and who already feel very secure (even with unlocked doors) still need a means for self protection even just in case a crime does happen.

This is along the same lines that gun ownership and CCW rates don't affect crime rates. They operate indepedently, but the ability to defend oneself with a very effective tool can most definitely have a very direct benefit for the intended victim of a crime.

"Needing" guns occurs regardless of the crime (rate) going on around and individual in a given area, city, state, region, or country. Need occurs because crime can happen, not how it is trending up or down.

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