Shout laundry stain remover + silica packets?


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Wylie1
January 23, 2013, 01:29 AM
Would there be any ill effect that would come from using Shout laundry stain remover in a rock tumbler with my stainless steel and brass?

Also would there be any ill effects from keeping the packaging silica packets and dropping one in with each box of reloads?

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thump_rrr
January 23, 2013, 07:22 AM
What would be the purpose of the laundry stain remover?

blarby
January 23, 2013, 07:59 AM
I agree... what is the purpose of the laundo product ?

On the silica packets- no ill effects...but they dont absorb a ton of moisture before they are played out. Unless you are sealing your boxes against air movement, they aren't going to work for very long.

Wylie1
January 23, 2013, 06:18 PM
The stain remover is a detergant, granted it isn't a dish detergant like most use in the rock tumbler stainless steel process of cleaning cartridge cases.

I have heard of liquid Tide being used in the process, I just figured it would be best to see what those in the know feel about the different detergant. What tests I have done with the Shout have returned a quicker cleaning time with better results than I have seen from what I have used in the past.

It just isn't an easy subject to reasearch being I have tried to find my own answers already.

Cool so once I perfect my loads I can food saver bag my cartridge boxes with a silica packet in each one and feel more confident in the same results from the cartridges years down the road.

Thank you for your help.

tightgroup tiger
January 23, 2013, 06:32 PM
Question? Are these used silica packs? You may be introducing more moisture than you already have into your ammo, they may have already absorbed some moisture, that's what they do.
You don't know where they have been.

Just a thought.

NeuseRvrRat
January 23, 2013, 07:34 PM
cone coffee filters, desiccant for drying flowers, elmer's glue

make your own desiccant packs

splattergun
January 23, 2013, 08:51 PM
cone coffee filters, desiccant for drying flowers, elmer's glue

make your own desiccant packs
^ that, or, dry out silica packets in the oven at about 180-200 deg for a couple hours.

Wylie1
January 23, 2013, 10:23 PM
Alright, good info! These are used silica packets and the thought had crossed by mind as to them being spent.

Still curious about the Shout!

Thanks again.

rcmodel
January 23, 2013, 11:12 PM
Shout laundry stain removerGood for your Shorts.

Not for your tumbler media.

rc

holdencm9
January 23, 2013, 11:56 PM
If you don't want to spend time making them or scrounging for old ones out of shoeboxes and drying them out, you can always just buy some and be confident they will absorb moisture, I drop one or two into each ammo case if I expect to leave it in storage awhile. They are all pretty air-tight so they should be fine on their own but the dessicant adds some peace of mind.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038N30OY/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i02

hueyville
January 24, 2013, 12:21 AM
Unless you are packaging ammo on a very humid day I see no need for silica packs. I have items sent to me with two silica packs to size of quart can in each box. Their purpose is to absorb any leakage of the product being shipped which is a HAZMAT item. When I am packaging things for long periods of time I make sure containers are air tight and either pull a vacuum or back fill with nitrogen. That said I did an experiment that lasted 20 years where I packed boxes of same ammo in their original card board containers. I had four groups. One sealed in can with nitrogen, one under vacuum, one with no sealing gasket and silica and other no sealing gasket and no agent so it would have access to environmental migration. The four boxes sat in my basement for 20 years and then opened and inspected. The nitrogen and vacuum were the same, looked brand new. The silica and one with nothing may have been a bit less shiny but no real oxidation. Shot one sample box from each and all performed the same. But it was a relatively temperature controlled environment as my basement has HVAC. If it were being stored in non temperature and humidity controlled environment it is a different story. Remember if buried below frost line temperature is relatively steady. Your main objective is eliminating water migration. In my testing for this, if packages are properly sealed same results except for positive (above atmospheric) pressure fill with nitrogen is the hands down winner. You can buy 20 pound bottles of nitrogen at HVAC or welding supply for fair price.

rcmodel
January 24, 2013, 12:31 AM
Anyone who ever popped the lid on a GI steel ammo can would know there were no desiccant packs taking up room, or holding trapped moisture against the ammo in one.

If there is no moisture in a sealed ammo container when you put the ammo in it?

There will be no moisture in the container 20 years later either.

rc

Wylie1
January 24, 2013, 03:26 AM
Okay so the silica packets are going a bit far. I wasn't thinking as I have opened surplus cans.

RC, the stainless steel media would be effected by the Shout? I would have thought the brass being a softer metal would be taking a beating long before the stainless steel.

All I have been able to find so far are positive results from non-ionic surfactants which are a key ingrediant in Shout as well as some dish washing liquids being used for the same brass cleaning process I am using. If I am correct the use of the Shout illiminates the need for something like Lemi-Shine, an acidic product likely used to break down the case lube but harmful to metals.

I hope I'm not sounding like an idiot here because I am trying to do my homework on this.

holdencm9
January 24, 2013, 02:35 PM
Anyone who ever popped the lid on a GI steel ammo can would know there were no desiccant packs taking up room, or holding trapped moisture against the ammo in one.

If there is no moisture in a sealed ammo container when you put the ammo in it?

There will be no moisture in the container 20 years later either.

rc

That assumes they are perfectly sealed, and while my GI ammo cans probably are, the cheaper plastic ones I have (that come with bulk purchases sometimes) may not be, and if it is a humid day when you close it up then it will only serve to lower the humidity in there. I don't think "holding trapped moisture" against the ammo is a problem, same with shoes or food. The ammo would probably be fine for 100 years regardless, it is just peace of mind for less than a quarter.

Rule3
January 24, 2013, 06:01 PM
The magic ingredient for the wet tumbler is Lem Shine which is expensive found in the dishwasher detergent section.

2 cups of white vinegar and 2 tablespoons of salt, a few drops of dish soap.works about as well. May not need sunglasses when looking at your brass but it will be clean,:)

Gel pack just reach saturation and hold moisture, useless per my locksmith safe guy in business for 40 years. He throws away the big bags that come in the safes.

Wylie1
January 24, 2013, 09:43 PM
As far as the silica goes I thank you folks.

At the moment I am running another test with the Shout and it's at about 36 hours now. Nothing but straight Shout in a scrap of aluminum foil and at this point the brass is way cleaner than it went into the aluminum foil. No movement no nothing, just sitting on the kitchen counter top. I'll pull the brass from the aluminum foil, rinse it and let it sit on the counter top after drying to see how it will tarnish.

I'm going for simplicity here, one detergant, no fuss no muss kinda deal and I'm about sold on the Shout being the answer.

In researching the different chems used for this process it seems that acids are not a good thing at all and can promote corrosion, not detour it as well as make the brass more brittle. As far as I know the acids are used to break down case lubes which the Shout does as well as suspending it and dirt in the water.

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