Sporting vs fighting shotguns


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ZVP
January 23, 2013, 04:33 AM
Right up front, I fear the antis and the gun grabbers!
"IF" they ever did come, wouldn't it be better to have a sporting style shotgun (for home defense) than a riot gun?
A Sporting gun dosen't carry the stigma that a fully accesorised fighter does. Maybe you could keep your Sporting Shotgun?
I have herd stories of other countrys and their gun grabs and it seems they view the sporting guns as harmless and let the owners keep their sporting guns.
Whst do you think?
ZVP

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Scrumbag
January 23, 2013, 04:46 AM
Sounds like a good call for the Mossberg 500 ATP 8.

Take the black furniture off it, put on standard 500 wood. Looks much more like grandpappy's ol' scattergun now but will still get the job done...

Nasty
January 23, 2013, 10:45 AM
ratz...Thought this thread might be about different ways to mod or use shotguns to either board or defend vessels in port.

Uniquedot
January 23, 2013, 11:42 AM
wouldn't it be better to have a sporting style shotgun (for home defense) than a riot gun?

No it wouldn't. It would be better if the the idiots at the polls and the anti American politicians understood that the constitution guarantees the American citizen the right to keep and bear arms so that they make take them up against their own government if the need arose. The second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting.

oneounceload
January 23, 2013, 02:40 PM
That is nice, but the reality of today, coupled with the complete mastery of the media by the antis might dictate otherwise

Fred Fuller
January 23, 2013, 03:37 PM
I don't usually tromp around in people's posts, but since the typo in the thread title here was causing misunderstandings, I fixed it.

Anyone who ever needs to edit a typo in a thread title they've posted can do so - just click on the EDIT button, then click on GO ADVANCED in the edit screen, fix the typo, and click SAVE. That'll do it...

bubba in ca
January 23, 2013, 06:20 PM
Round one they are going for the semis, not the pumps, and I noticed the NY law is going after semis with 8 shot mags, not just the detachable mags..

If they win, a few years down the road they will go for the pumps.

ball3006
January 23, 2013, 09:25 PM
Both my Remington M11 and my Savage 720, have hunting barrels equipped with Poly Chokes. Both shotguns also have 20 inch riot barrels also that can be installed in less than a minute. My Model 12 also has a hunting barrel and a 20 inch riot barrel. That change takes about 10 minutes.....chris3

dfariswheel
January 23, 2013, 09:34 PM
I think you fail to understand the anti-gunners.

No, they don't like the tricked out shotguns, but when they start banning shotguns they just ban ALL semi-auto and pump guns irregardless of what accessories are on them.
That's what they did not long ago in Australia.

So, they'll try to ban your combat shotgun with all the accessories AND your dad's old Winchester Model 12 duck gun with the 30" barrel.
They don't know the difference AND THEY DON'T CARE.
Most of them are actually proud of their ignorance about guns, they just know they don't like guns and they don't like the kind of people who own guns.

ObsceneJesster
January 23, 2013, 11:14 PM
No, they don't like the tricked out shotguns, but when they start banning shotguns they just ban ALL semi-auto and pump guns irregardless of what accessories are on them.

Then what are you supposed to hunt birds with?

Fiv3r
January 23, 2013, 11:46 PM
I think they're one and the same although a blue steel barrel on wooden furniture certainly LOOKS more like a hunting gun. My beloved old Ithaca 37 that holds 7+1 started its life as a police cruiser gun, was sold at auction to a very good friend of mine who used it to drop deer. The magazine is too large for where he lives for hunting, but that was corrected with a wooden dowel in the well.
He sold it to me for a song, and it is back to being a HD/fighting shotgun. What put meat on his table is my go-to firearm to protect my wife and daughter.

You can keep the polymer and the tacticool doodads. Blue and wood and worn smooth with deadly purpose:)

PT92
January 24, 2013, 01:56 AM
Right up front, I fear the antis and the gun grabbers!
"IF" they ever did come, wouldn't it be better to have a sporting style shotgun (for home defense) than a riot gun?
A Sporting gun dosen't carry the stigma that a fully accesorised fighter does. Maybe you could keep your Sporting Shotgun?
I have herd stories of other countrys and their gun grabs and it seems they view the sporting guns as harmless and let the owners keep their sporting guns.
Whst do you think?
ZVP
Others have addressed your OP question but I would just like to add that I sense a certain and discernible "sense of inevitability" about the antis coming to take "our" guns in your post.

I would say that while your concern is warranted, it should be met by a steadfast commitment to defend 2A in every way possible (joining RKBA groups, contacting Political Reps etc...). Perhaps you already are but just to be sure ;)...In the meantime, purchase and use any gun that you may legally obtain and enjoy!

Zardaia
January 24, 2013, 02:33 AM
Are shotguns even really issued much to troops for direct combat? Other than for breaching. Fine inside a building, but what about when u exit and sombody starts in with an ak 100m down the road? Great as a ltl tool when the mission calls for one, but I just don't see much point in a shotgun over m4. Combat shotgun may be good for a cop that's not worried about going straight from interior to down the street ranges but otherwise why accept the limited range?

PabloJ
January 24, 2013, 02:56 AM
Right up front, I fear the antis and the gun grabbers!
"IF" they ever did come, wouldn't it be better to have a sporting style shotgun (for home defense) than a riot gun?
A Sporting gun dosen't carry the stigma that a fully accesorised fighter does. Maybe you could keep your Sporting Shotgun?
I have herd stories of other countrys and their gun grabs and it seems they view the sporting guns as harmless and let the owners keep their sporting guns.
Whst do you think?
ZVP
I own only one long gun. It's Charles Daly pump made by Ithaca Gun Company.
A wonderful field gun that can be pressed into HD use.

allaroundhunter
January 24, 2013, 02:58 AM
Well...my HD gun is my mossberg 930 JM with 9+1 capacity....

No need for me to change it, it works and there won't be anyone taking it from me anytime soon...

evan price
January 24, 2013, 05:54 AM
By conforming to what the anti's use for terms- "tactical" versus "sporting" guns- we are also allowing ourselves to be subdivided. There are shotguns. That's all.

Ehtereon11B
January 24, 2013, 06:37 AM
Tactical shotguns are obviously black. So get some wood colored spray paint and you will be all set :D

oneounceload
January 24, 2013, 10:31 AM
Then what are you supposed to hunt birds with?

What makes you think that would still be allowed? Remember, most of the PETA, WWF, etc. are also anti gun, so making hunting impossible puts them in the same camp as Brady

Fred Fuller
January 24, 2013, 05:16 PM
Take a look at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266958/Builder-discovers-deadly-haul-30-shotguns-pistols-hidden-false-wall-days-Dunblane-massacre.html#ixzz2IpKn9lYI and see how much difference having 'sporting' guns made in this instance...

Most of these look 'sporting' to me... but that makes no difference.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BC203000005DC-283_634x484.jpg

Deer_Freak
January 24, 2013, 05:24 PM
I think you fail to understand the anti-gunners.

No, they don't like the tricked out shotguns, but when they start banning shotguns they just ban ALL semi-auto and pump guns irregardless of what accessories are on them.
That's what they did not long ago in Australia.

There were millions of guns in Australia when they banned guns. They collected 63,000 (please correct me if I am wrong). With all those horrible boating accidents in Australia I don't know how they have any boats left over there.

ObsceneJesster
January 24, 2013, 06:57 PM
Are shotguns even really issued much to troops for direct combat? Other than for breaching.

I don't know for sure but I do remember seeing a news feed from the most recent war in Iraq. The video aired some time in 2003 but it was of a soldier who was wounded in Baghdad. He took a bullet to the leg and couldn't walk so they were carrying him out on a stretcher. While they were carrying him, he was leaning up pumping away on his 590. I thought that was pretty cool.

PT92
January 24, 2013, 08:06 PM
I don't know for sure but I do remember seeing a news feed from the most recent war in Iraq. The video aired some time in 2003 but it was of a soldier who was wounded in Baghdad. He took a bullet to the leg and couldn't walk so they were carrying him out on a stretcher. While they were carrying him, he was leaning up pumping away on his 590. I thought that was pretty cool.
Indeed--It's kinda difficult to make out but it happens around the 4:25 mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-BwFNNAGc

USAF_Vet
January 24, 2013, 08:07 PM
Some of the best fighting shot guns in US history were long barreled, wooden stocked sporting gun look-a-likes. What was once used in the trenches of WWI as a fighting shotgun is looked at today as a sporting shotgun.

I just see shotguns, and shotguns with doodads hanging from them.

PT92
January 24, 2013, 08:42 PM
Some of the best fighting shot guns in US history were long barreled, wooden stocked sporting gun look-a-likes. What was once used in the trenches of WWI as a fighting shotgun is looked at today as a sporting shotgun.

I just see shotguns, and shotguns with doodads hanging from them.
Agreed. Even the Benelli M4 which is state-of-the-art is essentially "the same" shotgun but of course semi-auto action.

Arguably though, the game changer in "combat shotguns" has been the introduction of the 'mag-fed' Russian Saiga's (and now VEPR's) based largely on the AK architecture. I have a Saiga 12 converted and it's a hoot--my experience has been, however, that a NIB Saiga 12 will run only with the heavy stuff until the gas ports are manipulated accordingly via a conversion process--no experience with the new VEPR but from what I have read it's said to be an "enhanced" Saiga . And then there's the Turkish MKA 1919 AR15 Style shotgun of which I have no direct experience with but have read favorable reviews. They keep saying they will have hi-cap mags available for these but I still see only the five round mags whereas the Saiga's can run mags/drums anywhere from 5-20 rounds.

With that said, still the "combat" effectiveness of the shotgun (including mag-fed) is extremely "role" oriented at best as I see it, be it breaching, MP, general security etc...But I cannot see how it could be utilized as a soldier's primary firearm in the field where, conversely, it can easily be advocated as a primary defensive firearm for the civilian (IMO even in a SHTF scenario as it can reach out to 150yds. if needed and has perhaps unparalleled CQB effectiveness).

bubba in ca
January 24, 2013, 08:44 PM
In the short run, if you live in a flaky legal district, or plan on saying unfortunate things to the investigating officers, or plan on having a bad lawyer, you would be better off having a plain-jane wood and blued steel shotgun.

In the long run, there is no telling what the gun thieves will dream up but most likely it will be semi autos and detachable mags and extended mags that are not detachable ( the new NY law restricts semi-autos with 8 or more round tubular mags).

If we loose this round, in 10 years they will go for everything. Remember, if ``immigration reform``passes, we will have Democratic majorities in all branches of government.

ZVP
January 25, 2013, 05:41 PM
Thanks for fixing the error I made!
So sorry!
I see that we are all afraid of loosinng even our sporting guns, I am too!
I use a Stoger Uplander 20 Ga SXS with 28" bbls
I don't want to cut the barrels because I also want to use this shotgun for fun and want the chokes for that. I think that the overall size of the gun is small enough to use for HD. It is shorter than a 9 round pump.
Ammo is the problem now, all I can get is small shot right now and I just got the gun. I am still searching high and wide! #7 is better than nothing...
Thanks to the Moderator.
ZVP

Isaac-1
January 25, 2013, 07:40 PM
SGammo has 20 ga slugs by the case in stock

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