NYPD to begin testing a new high-tech device to scan for concealed handguns


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sharpshooter74
January 23, 2013, 04:36 PM
NYPD Commissioner says department will begin testing a new high-tech device that scans for concealed weapons

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-readies-scan-and-frisk-article-1.1245663#ixzz2IpvJJxZH


Get ready for scan-and-frisk.

The NYPD will soon deploy new technology allowing police to detect guns carried by criminals without using the typical pat-down procedure, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said Wednesday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-readies-scan-and-frisk-article-1.1245663

I have a feeling it won't be the criminals that they'll be checking out and frisking. Lawfully concealed carry handgun owners will probably be frisked and checked to see if their handguns have more than 7 rounds in it.

If this technology improves, it might even be used by all of New York to scan through people's houses if they have any " Assault Weapons " that are unregistered.

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Airborne Falcon
January 23, 2013, 04:40 PM
lulz - why anyone chooses to remain in that state, or as it has now become a communist country, is beyond me.

We seriously need to consider, as a country, moving Wall Street, etc., the heck outta there.

Texan Scott
January 23, 2013, 04:40 PM
I see serious 4a issues ahead.

miller.lyte
January 23, 2013, 04:42 PM
Does New York even know what the Constitution is?

Queen_of_Thunder
January 23, 2013, 04:46 PM
Sounds like an illegal search.

Ranger Roberts
January 23, 2013, 04:50 PM
Has anyone in NYC ever heard of "probable cause"? I also wonder if the machine would search for sugary drinks over 16 oz?

Ryanxia
January 23, 2013, 04:54 PM
This technology has actually been around for awhile. When I last saw it it seemed that any metal object would display similarly to a firearm. It was suggested that folks carry around metal rods (which actually were convincingly close to guns depending on the angle) in protest. I would suggest a fashion of clothing that has a metal liner be introduced as well.

That being said I hope this technology is outlawed. Even if it is for your own good comrades..

desidog
January 23, 2013, 04:54 PM
20oz. sodas are a danger; but the radiation coming out of this thing is A-OK.

I mean, protecting everyone from an infinitesimally small chance of death from rapid-lead-ingest by giving them cancer? What's not to like....

vtail
January 23, 2013, 04:56 PM
If I lived there, and thank God I don't, I would almost be temped to water jet cutouts of thousands of various gun shaped metal pieces and seed them throughout the state.

Solo
January 23, 2013, 05:06 PM
This technology has actually been around for awhile. When I last saw it it seemed that any metal object would display similarly to a firearm. It was suggested that folks carry around metal rods (which actually were convincingly close to guns depending on the angle) in protest. I would suggest a fashion of clothing that has a metal liner be introduced as well.

Are you suggesting a hat of some sort made from tinfoil?

TrueTexan
January 23, 2013, 05:09 PM
Just wrap a 6 inch sub in foil and have them pick you up for concealed carry of a lunch:neener:

MErl
January 23, 2013, 05:09 PM
more fun to tape a gun shaped piece of foil to your back at around waist level

RetiredUSNChief
January 23, 2013, 05:21 PM
Don't forget to sign the Daily News Assaut Weapons Ban, clearly advertised under the article.

I wonder where the loyalties of the Daily News lie? I'm betting they'd scream bloody murder if anybody offered any restrictions on the First Amendment...

:fire:


I'm wondering what stand organizations like that ACLU would take on something like this, which would be collecting evidence without probable cause in the circumstances listed in the article?

HorseSoldier
January 23, 2013, 05:27 PM
I'm not discounting the civil liberties issues, but I also don't see how this is actually going to replace a Terry stop from an officer safety perspective.

bhesler
January 23, 2013, 05:40 PM
They are not looking to replace Terry stops, but their unconstitutional Stop and Frisk. Oddly enough, today, the federal judge that ruled them unconstitutional, granted a stay, allowing them to continue through their appeal, because it would be too expensive to retrain officers not to do the searches. Info at link below.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/nypd_can_temporarily_continue_unconstitutional_stop_and_frisks/

izhevsk
January 23, 2013, 06:23 PM
I had read somewhere (CNN?) that the airport body scanners were getting pulled - guess they're all being relocated to NY.

... I was kidding, but I guess the government isn't: http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/removed-full-body-airport-scanners-being-redeployed-by-military-law-enforcement.php

goon
January 23, 2013, 06:38 PM
Now wait just a second... why is this necessary?
The legal gun owners would only carry legally so you can already assume that they are potentially armed but not harmful.
And the criminals, well isn't it illegal for them to carry anyhow? Surely they are complying with the law and not carrying illegally. To use this technology to search for illegally carried guns would admit that there are illegally carried guns.

lashylash
January 23, 2013, 07:51 PM
The Supreme Court ruled against using thermal imaging without a warrant. The basis behind that was that it didn't enhance natural senses. I would hope this would be the same.

zorro45
January 23, 2013, 07:56 PM
From what I recall from the last time I was in NY (for an unavoidable funeral) they might
want to increase the sensitivity of this to include any coins so they can extract
every last bit of jingle from your pockets before you flee their state!

hAkron
January 23, 2013, 08:34 PM
Does this crime fighting machine cause cancer? It's a small price to pay for absolute safety, and I'm probably going to be flagged a dissident for asking, but I'm curious what sort of thing they might be beaming at people that can see metal under their clothes.

oneounceload
January 23, 2013, 08:38 PM
- why anyone chooses to remain in that state, or as it has now become a communist country, is beyond me.

We seriously need to consider, as a country, moving Wall Street, etc., the heck outta there.


That is upto those firms, but I agree , with today's computer interaction, an investment house can be anywhere. They will save millions in taxes alone

Solo
January 23, 2013, 08:46 PM
Does this crime fighting machine cause cancer?
Short answer: No

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

It's a small price to pay for absolute safety, and I'm probably going to be flagged a dissident for asking, but I'm curious what sort of thing they might be beaming at people that can see metal under their clothes.
The scanner doesn't beam anything, it acts as a receiver for electromagnetic radiation your body gives off. Think of it as analogous to an infrared sensor.

gym
January 23, 2013, 09:15 PM
Pat downs don't always work, I can atest to that personally.

mnrivrat
January 23, 2013, 09:27 PM
If I lived there, and thank God I don't, I would almost be temped to water jet cutouts of thousands of various gun shaped metal pieces and seed them throughout the state.

We just had a 5 year old suspended for assualt with a bubble gun. You would likely end up in jail and have to prove your cutout wasn't a new style assualt clip device machine gun. (shooting 500 thought waves a minute)

Coop45
January 23, 2013, 09:31 PM
I guess it would cost too much to build a tall fence around NYC and pour it full of concrete.

hAkron
January 24, 2013, 06:39 AM
So there are enough terahertz waves emitted by the body for this to work?

The scanners that put out the waves (though it sounds like this isn't one) are said to do bad things to one's DNA.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/416066/how-terahertz-waves-tear-apart-dna/

RetiredUSNChief
January 24, 2013, 08:23 AM
Pat downs don't always work, I can atest to that personally.

Then the "pat down" wasn't done properly.

The phrase "pat down" is a misnomer, and any officer who actually does what the name implies is an absolute moron.

By intent and design, a frisk is an extremely invasive procedure.

Here's a video showing proper techniques:

http://www.correctionsone.com/corrections-training/videos/3378645-Demonstration-of-proper-pat-down-procedures/

Frisking should involve a lot of rubbing and grabbing of clothing and anatomy because this is the most effective way to find concealed items on a body or in clothing. Physically "patting" hands over clothing does little to nothing for items concealed in joints, folds, or crevasses of the body and within seams of clothing. It is entirely possible to either miss contact with such concealed items entirely, or to fool the brain into thinking nothing was found by the patting motion when it does contact something.

I had an eye-opening training event on this very subject many years ago in the Navy, as part of some Brig Escort training I went through. (No, I wasn't required to do frisking...it was just part of the training we received.)

RetiredUSNChief
January 24, 2013, 08:30 AM
So there are enough terahertz waves emitted by the body for this to work?

The scanners that put out the waves (though it sounds like this isn't one) are said to do bad things to one's DNA.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/416066/how-terahertz-waves-tear-apart-dna/

Yes, the body does put out sufficient energy in these wavelengths. These wavelengths lie between infrared and microwave wavelengths on the spectrum, "sub-millimeter" wavelengths.

They are non-ionizing frequencies...they are nowhere near energetic enough to cause ionization events to occur in a substance, including water, air, or any other material (body included).

For what it's worth, most people who like to throw out "but that causes DNA/genetic damage" have no idea what they're talking about. It's mostly scare tactics or blatent ignorance. Just because something emits some form of electromagnetic radiation doesn't mean it's capable of causing genetic damage.

:):)

mrnic3guy1989
January 24, 2013, 08:45 AM
Next thing you know they'll be outlawing Glocks because some liberal doesn't know they set off metal detectors.

hAkron
January 24, 2013, 12:28 PM
For what it's worth, most people who like to throw out "but that causes DNA/genetic damage" have no idea what they're talking about.


I am without a doubt in the group who doesn't know what I'm talking about, I'm suspicious of the TSA scanners as well. If we are just reading the ambient waves, then that's fine. If we are emitting waves at me 'willy nilly' then I'm not onboard.

Not saying I agree with them using the technology, because I don't, but as far as potential health concerns, I understand your explanation.

greenmtnguy
January 24, 2013, 01:22 PM
The TSA scanners at the airport DO emit microwave radiation. It isn't like being in a microwave oven though as far as energy levels go. The wavelengths they operate at are longer than the terahertz background radiation that this new device reads. But, probably we will eventually understand that the microwave radiation from cell phones is causing everyone to turn into liberals..

Browning
January 24, 2013, 01:39 PM
So basically due to the size of that thing they'd have to set up check-points, which everyone will just go around or avoid if they're carrying.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr47/Browning35/2A%20Politics/CA4B5BAB-84DD-47FB-AC45-31435807A28C-2657-000000E7DEAF7F8B.jpg

Yeah, that'll be effective. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the fact that eventually someone will come up with counter-measures.

More and more that city is really starting to sound like that book 'Black Arrow'.

Black Arrow by Vin Suprynowicz - (*Click*) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0976251604)

MachIVshooter
January 24, 2013, 03:01 PM
I see serious 4a issues ahead.

Definitely.

If I were faced with these scans, I'd configure some benign objects into the shape of a gun just so I had a case to sue the bejeezes out of the city.

There's a special place in hell for these politicians.

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