Primer pocket (rifle)Uniforming, yes or no?


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Rule3
January 23, 2013, 06:31 PM
I am more of a handgun shooter and never clean primer pockets let alone uniform them.

For general range shooting (100 yard shooting is the farthest my range has)) of a 223 both bolt action heavy barrel varmint rifle and AR shooting is is worth doing anything to the primer pockets?

Not a Match or competition shooter by any means but I do strive to be as accurate as I can be.

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.22-5-40
January 23, 2013, 06:45 PM
Hello Rule3. I have been using a Whitetail solid carbide uniformer in both SR & LR for nearly 20 years now. I am not a match shooter..just like to strive for highest accuracy out of my rifles..I too am limited to 100yds. Uniforming the pockets will give a more precise feel when hand-seating primers..and of course making pocket depth identical never hurts. But even more important..even with a light start load..or a mild cast-bullet load for that matter, I have nearly always had the tool cut brass from pocket..even if said brass was uniformed until cutter stopped cutting prior to priming. I believe the cartridge brass flows in this area..and it's seldom uniform. Since I use this tool to clean pockets, any brass that flows in there will be removed at this time.

45lcshooter
January 23, 2013, 06:46 PM
Yes uniform the pockets. That would be like sticking bread on a griddle with no butter to toast it.

Un-uniformed pocket could put more pressure on primer and primer may not seat fully.

jcwit
January 23, 2013, 06:51 PM
Yes I would and I do.

Rule3
January 23, 2013, 08:43 PM
Hmm, more yea's than I expected.
Please don't tell me you do your handgun brass also,:uhoh:

rcmodel
January 23, 2013, 08:46 PM
No.
I clean primer pockets.
I swage primer pocket crimps.
But I don't "uniform" them, or ream flash holes, ever.

It is simply is a waste of energy for 100 yard plinking ammo.

Or 400 yard varmint ammo.

rc

Casefull
January 23, 2013, 09:15 PM
waste of time, lack of understanding. like spitting to weigh less.

Walkalong
January 23, 2013, 09:19 PM
I have been using a Whitetail solid carbide uniformerI have one, and they are nice, but I have never uniformed any primer pockets other than 6PPC. I do generally clean rifle primer pockets, but not pistol.

It can't hurt, it might help between the ears, and only has to be done once, although brass does flow back in and if used again it will remove brass.

Can your gun shoot the difference?

exdxgxe4life
January 23, 2013, 09:21 PM
You already know the answer. Should it be done...yes. Do you need to do it? no. Accuracy is about consistency. It's just one more step towards more uniformity.

witchhunter
January 23, 2013, 10:45 PM
Yes, always, and deburr flash holes. Turn necks only to uniform thickness. Trim to length. Chamfer mouths. Uniforming the primer pockets gives hand priming a better "feel". I use a Sinclair tool on a cordless drill.

beatledog7
January 23, 2013, 11:35 PM
Logically, anything you can do to enhance the consistency (uniformity) of the ammo you build has to enhance its firing accuracy to some degree. The question then is whether any given step one can take makes enough difference to be discernible or even scientifically measurable in the firing.

If you have gobs of time, there's probably no harm in properly doing all of the various things to brass casings that some people do in their effort to enhance accuracy. Of course, doing something improperly can result in making a piece of brass worse than factory or even unusable.

If on the other hand, your time is limited, you have to decide how much of it you are willing to devote to exploring the arguably minuscule return on the time invested.

gamestalker
January 23, 2013, 11:55 PM
I use a primer pocket cleaning tool (RCBS) to knock any carbon left overs out, but I don't ever use a uniforming tool, and my loads will consistently shoot MOA. I'm pretty anal about my process too, but uniforming has never been a necessity from what I can tell?

GS

Hondo 60
January 24, 2013, 01:21 AM
is it worth doing anything to the primer pockets?

My answer is no.

GW Staar
January 24, 2013, 01:24 AM
There IS one additional reason, and why I actually do uniform pockets since I started loading on a progressive.:rolleyes:

On my RCBS Pro 2000, I have 3 choices: 1. Try to "feel" a primer seating to the bottom of the pocket....not real easy given the weight of the ram and handle and the ample leverage. Or, 2. set the primer stop, which is supposed to seat every thing the same. Or, 3. not use it and prime with a hand or bench primer. But I love my APS primer system on the press, so 3 is out.

I am using choice 2, but setting the press's primer stop only sets them the target depth, if the pocket depth is uniform in a batch of brass. Uniforming the pockets is the only way to get that uniformity. So since I have a Trim Mate which makes it easy, I do it. Have not noticed any problems ... I have, however, noticed I get no more high primers using that method. Floating firing pins in my .308 and .223 make even the usual 1% with slightly high primers, using method 2, unacceptable. More accuracy? Wouldn't know. I'm not a benchrester who would care.

No! I don't uniform pistol.



Speaking of "spit," if a benchrester thought spitting and weighing less would help on the line....you know they'd do it! :)

hueyville
January 24, 2013, 01:34 AM
I am really obsessive. Every piece of brass that comes into inventory even mixed lot plinking cases get primer pockets uniformed and flash holes deburred. It is a one time operation that never has to be repeated. They are also trimmed to just under max OAL. The plinking ammo gets trimmed once every 5 firings as mixed cases grow at different rates. Even with mixed case ammo I see a small improvement in accuracy. Think.of all the variables it removes. Lock time due to primer face always same distance from firing pin. Even ignition as ignition source closer to same distance from powder column, exact same flame pattern coming into case due to flash holes all being same size and no burrs. Is it worth it? Not if your doing it manually but if you have a power unit for all these case prep operations it doesn't take long and adds to the fun.

murf
January 24, 2013, 02:57 AM
i clean all my primer pockets......with a uniforming tool. pistol and rifle after every firing.

kills two birds with one stone.

murf

blarby
January 24, 2013, 03:25 AM
Yes, every one.

Walkalong
January 24, 2013, 08:29 AM
if a benchrester thought spitting and weighing less would help on the line....you know they'd do it!Darn tootin' :)

hueyville
January 24, 2013, 09:19 AM
If theory got out with benchrest shooters that abstaining from conjugal visitation with their wives for two weeks before a match they would build a separate bedroom near their bench....

Walkalong
January 24, 2013, 10:39 AM
Where they could watch the wind flags while dosing off. ;)

Rule3
January 24, 2013, 11:21 AM
I'm liking the no responses better.:):)

I reload pretty much every handgun caliber and have never cleaned a primer pocket. I use cheap hard Wolf primers and can count on one hand how many "light primer" strikes I have had and some of my guns are pretty light main springs.

USSR
January 24, 2013, 11:41 AM
I uniform the primer pockets for my rifle cartridges, but not handgun cartridges. I basically have Garands and precision rifles. For the Garands I do it to ensure no high primers, and for the precision rifles I do it as part of the match prepping of the brass. Also, even if a uniformer doesn't remove any brass when you use it, it will act just like a cleaning tool and remove carbon deposits.

Don

Canuck-IL
January 24, 2013, 12:51 PM
Rifle Yes - always ... Pistol No.
/Bryan

murf
January 24, 2013, 01:30 PM
if you decide to clean your primer pockets with a uniforming tool, beware. large rifle pockets are deeper than large pistol pockets. you will need a different tool for each. small rifle and small pistol are the same depth and one tool will suffice.

murf

john wall
January 24, 2013, 02:25 PM
If you are lazy, you said no.

If you want best accuracy from your rifle, then uniform primer pockets, deburr flash hole, trim, chamfer, and segregate matched headstamp brass by weight. The further away you shoot, the closer in weight a batch of brass should be.

The brass case is the component with the most variation from hull to hull.

All my rifle brass gets this done. Handgun? No. I usually shoot handgun close up, rifle, far away.

SSN Vet
January 24, 2013, 02:30 PM
I was reading a Chuch Hawkes article in which he reported on some testing they did with and without flash hole deburring. They concluded it was one of the single most significant improvements for accuracy.

Walkalong
January 24, 2013, 02:44 PM
Chuck is off base IMO.

Good barrels and good bullets, then a good action, then a good shooter, and then in micro measurements, everything else.

Rule3
January 24, 2013, 05:23 PM
If you are lazy, you said no.

If you want best accuracy from your rifle, then uniform primer pockets, deburr flash hole, trim, chamfer, and segregate matched headstamp brass by weight. The further away you shoot, the closer in weight a batch of brass should be.

The brass case is the component with the most variation from hull to hull.

All my rifle brass gets this done. Handgun? No. I usually shoot handgun close up, rifle, far away.

Yes, I would agree with doing everything possible if I was a bench rest shooter or really into competitive matches. It certainly can not hurt, But as Joe Walsh would sing, Just an ordinary average guy.:)

GW Staar
January 24, 2013, 07:55 PM
Where they could watch the wind flags while dosing off. ;)

....and the thermometer, and barametric pressure....or the clock....and how long its been since they had a caffeinated drink. But geeze, that last one is for real.....I can't shoot clays or trap worth beans if I've had one within 2 hours of the match.......ah but we digress (that one needs a new thread....on the other hand, caffeine abstention certainly comes before primer uniforming)!:D

Steve in PA
January 24, 2013, 08:30 PM
I uniform the primer pockets on my hunting ammo as well as ammo that I use for precision shooting. For general plinking loads, nope.

Fatelvis
January 26, 2013, 11:20 AM
If you are lazy, you said no.

If you want best accuracy from your rifle, then uniform primer pockets, deburr flash hole, trim, chamfer, and segregate matched headstamp brass by weight. The further away you shoot, the closer in weight a batch of brass should be.

I am lazy... but not in reloading... only cutting grass, taking out garbage, painting the deck, etc.!
I stopped cleaning and uniforming years ago (I've been reloading 31 yrs) and competing for over 18 yrs. Personally, I saw no difference in accuracy (even at the 600 line), and never had a primer induced misfire, hangfire, or slamfire. To me, it is unnecessary for a Highpower/Service Rifle competitor. I strive for MANY "great quality" loaded cartridges, opposed to a few "perfect quality" cartridges. I load many, many rounds per year, and time at the loading bench is held to the absolutes. I doubt if any "non-benchrest member here could tell the difference in accuracy between a cleaned/uniformed load, and one that wasn't, side by side at 600 yds.
To me, my time practicing NPA, position, reading wind, sling use, trigger control, breathing, etc., is MUCH more important.

thump_rrr
January 26, 2013, 11:36 AM
I'm a little OCD when it comes to reloading but I only uniform the primer pockets on brass used in my precision rifles.
For an AR where I may load 1,000 rounds in a day and maybe pick back up 500 of the 1000 pieces or will end up picking up other people's brass never.
I'm waiting on a couple of new AR's in the next few weeks and for one of them
I may just try doing everything right to see if it can shoot any better.

Fatelvis
January 26, 2013, 12:14 PM
Chuck is off base IMO.

Good barrels and good bullets, then a good action, then a good shooter, and then in micro measurements, everything else.
I think Walkalong hit the nail on the head! Except I have to switch action/shooter, and add a crisp trigger between shooter and action!

Trent
January 26, 2013, 01:31 PM
I didn't both reading everything in this thread, just wanted to share my experiences on primer pocket uniforming.

I did controlled tests several years ago comparing different brass prep "theories" with one another.

Same bullet, same powder, measured chronograph differences in standard deviation of velocity based on different case prep "strategies".

Primer pocket uniforming / flash hole deburring (either singly or in combination) had the LEAST amount of impact on velocity spread over all of the uniforming I tried. (In fact, the two combined showed absolutely no improvement over the control group).

Sorting by case weight, wall thickness, internal volume sorting showed a marginal improvement on velocity spread.

Meplat uniforming didn't make any improvements, and in fact, hurt accuracy substantially with the load I was shooting, compared to control groups.

Outside neck turning and careful calibration of neck tension with bushing dies had the MOST profound impact on velocity spread. The results also scaled directly with neck tension; .004" of tension showed more inconsistency in velocity than .003", which showed more inconsistency than .002", which showed more inconsistency than .0015" neck tension (lowest I went).

(neck tension = measured inside diameter of case neck after all case prep operations complete, compared to measured bullet diameter.)

When I'm loading for accuracy testing of component changes, nowadays I'll only do the neck turn / bushing size case prep operations to get a uniform seating tension, and skip the rest of the stuff.

After it's been fired, generally I'll run it through the primer pocket uniform step just to clean out the crud and make it nice and pretty again. :)

lightman
January 26, 2013, 02:11 PM
I uniform the primer pocket and deburr the flash hole. I can't tell any improvement in accuracy, but I also have not seen any harm from this practice. What I do see is easier and more consistent seating of the primer. It also makes me feel like I have done everything that I can do to improve accuracy. Lightman

carbine85
January 27, 2013, 10:28 AM
I'm a little to the party but I say yes to uniforming the pockets. I only do it the first time around. I know the primer feeding feels better and they all seat the same. It's just another small step of many to help improve accuracy.

Mel1776
January 29, 2013, 04:18 PM
Um, I clean rifle primer pockets, but I don't uniform them. I'm sure that I could find the tool that I have if I really needed to find it, but I haven't used it in years.

essayons21
January 30, 2013, 02:54 AM
I uniform my precision rifle rounds most of the time. If I ever started taking competition seriously I would all of the time.

I generally only deburr the flash hole once. After uniforming the primer pocket, you will find that on subsequent loadings the uniforming tool only takes off carbon and not brass... unless you go too crazy with it.

I do uniform some .38/.357 casings if I am loading for accuracy. But for most handgun ammo and general purpose rifle ammo I don't uniform.

I did notice slightly improved accuracy when I began uniforming precision rifle rounds. That may have been just as attributable to the further refining of the nut behind the trigger.

dmazur
January 30, 2013, 08:18 AM
I uniform primer pockets (once) in brass which is reloaded for a Garand. I believe it makes it easier to achieve the "below flush" seating, for every case.

But I haven't done it yet for any other rifle, or for pistol.

rsnell
January 30, 2013, 11:24 AM
I always uniform the primer pockets and deburr the flash holes on all new rifle brass. After that I clean the primer pockets before seating new primers.

idoono
January 30, 2013, 09:51 PM
If theory got out with benchrest shooters that abstaining from conjugal visitation with their wives for two weeks before a match they would build a separate bedroom near their bench....

Just remember whar Redd Foxx used to say "You show me a husband who don't, I'll show you a neighbor who will." :neener::D

In answer to the OP, Yes.

Idoono

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