"Auto zone" silencer


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kestak
January 24, 2013, 07:20 AM
http://lewrockwell.com/gun-reviews/stp-fram.html

I do not understand two things:

1 - He talks about the 200$ stamp. You have to apply for the stamp still? Do you send the serial number of the oil filter? ahahahahahahahahahah

2 - Does it work on 223, 308, 45ACP too?

Thank you

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CZ223
January 24, 2013, 07:32 AM
Apparently you have to register the adapter. I have recently seen another adapter selling for about a third of that and it didn't mention registering it. I would not want to get caught with either without the stamp, so do it right.

rjrivero
January 24, 2013, 07:37 AM
I can't see what you posted here at work, but I have a feeling it's the "Econo-Can" from Cadiz Gunworks. It's distributed by American Specialty Ammo. It is a silencer, and you do need to have a Stamp for it.

In order to change the filter, you must have a 07 FFL. Only Class 3 manufacturers can change the oil filters on these silencers.


http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html

kestak
January 24, 2013, 07:49 AM
You are right. I just went to the website and here is the description:



The Econo-Can Patent Pending

This is a legal and registered silencer that is patent pending. It is an adapter that uses a removable expansion chamber aka a car oil filter. In our opinion this device is as quiet as any 22lr silencer we have ever tested. The is a registered silencer and must be treated as such. The adapter is threaded 1/2-28. This is a NFA item and all NFA rules and regulations apply. We are licensed by CGW to manufacture this suppressor.

Isn't it ridiculous that you have to register a stupid threaded adapter on an oil filter? :banghead:

evan price
January 24, 2013, 07:52 AM
Actually since ATF considers silencer baffles and wipes and can body parts to be ALSO silencers- in that you can't own them without separate registration- if you do purchase the adapter, wouldn't any spare oil filters in your garage wind up being also unregistered silencers? So let's say you ran an instant oil change place, you'd have about 3,000 different NFA felony charges at 10 years and $10,000 each?

curlymaple42
January 24, 2013, 08:06 AM
Interesting concept. Cheap replacement of the baffles. Seems like it would be bad on a floating barrel pistol with a heavy can. Problem i see with the system is how to sight with it on a pistol. The rifle he had a high mounted red dot which may or may not adjust enough for elevation. Cool though!

Sent from my DROID RAZR

rjrivero
January 24, 2013, 09:30 AM
Actually since ATF considers silencer baffles and wipes and can body parts to be ALSO silencers- in that you can't own them without separate registration- if you do purchase the adapter, wouldn't any spare oil filters in your garage wind up being also unregistered silencers? So let's say you ran an instant oil change place, you'd have about 3,000 different NFA felony charges at 10 years and $10,000 each?

The way I understand the ATF interpretation is this: Their definition of a Silencer is any part or combination of parts that can be added to a firearm to mitigate the report of a firearm.

So, anything you can fasten on the end of a barrel CAN become a silencer. However, common use objects can not be "declared" silencers. If that were the case, every 20 oz soda bottle would be a silencer.

You would have to use that item AS a silencer in order for it to be a silencer. So, an oil filter isn't a silencer, but one attached to an adapter with a hole through it IS a silencer.

Also notice that you must be a licensed manufacturer in order to CHANGE the oil filter on the adapter. The oil filter carries the same serial number that the adapter has engraved in it. You, as a private individual, can NOT just put a new filter on it. Hows that for "sucks."

The strange little twist is that you can have an adapter and oil filter WITHOUT a hole in it, and use it to catch the solvent(s) when you clean your barrel. That's completely legal, and doesn't require a stamp. If however, you were to shoot a round through the solvent trap, you would be in violation of NFA rules. Conveniently, Cadiz Gunworks makes them too. LINK HERE. (http://cadizgunworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=67)

That's about splitting hairs as you can get.

evan price
January 24, 2013, 09:39 AM
@rjrivero: I agree however atf has ruled that keeping spare wipes, baffles or fiberglass batts was a no-no. So possession of rubber gaaskets- when those gaskets are spare parts for a silencer you already own- is illegal. But without the silencer they are just rubber circles. Same token- ownership of oil filters means nothing BUT ownership of oil filters with the barrel adapter would be illegal.

RetiredUSNChief
January 24, 2013, 10:05 AM
:DThe way I understand the ATF interpretation is this: Their definition of a Silencer is any part or combination of parts that can be added to a firearm to mitigate the report of a firearm.

So, anything you can fasten on the end of a barrel CAN become a silencer. However, common use objects can not be "declared" silencers. If that were the case, every 20 oz soda bottle would be a silencer.

Might I point out that NY has the 20 oz soda bottle angle covered already?

I guess now we know the REAL reason for the NY soda ban...

:D

zdc1775
January 24, 2013, 10:49 AM
I can't see what you posted here at work, but I have a feeling it's the "Econo-Can" from Cadiz Gunworks. It's distributed by American Specialty Ammo. It is a silencer, and you do need to have a Stamp for it.

In order to change the filter, you must have a 07 FFL. Only Class 3 manufacturers can change the oil filters on these silencers.


http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html
Not saying your wrong but could you point me to where is says you have to be an 07 FFL to change the filter.

Brockak47
January 24, 2013, 10:52 AM
it would be nice to have one of those adapters for if SHTF, but i wouldn't pay a 200 stamp for one.


and no you do not need a license to change the filter. Like said the registered part is the thread adaptor

Gato MontÚs
January 24, 2013, 11:26 AM
I'd love to hear from the ATF an official ruling on this thing, whether or not one can swap out filters. If not, the Econo-Can is not so economic anymore.

MasterSergeantA
January 24, 2013, 11:57 AM
Based on what is on the Cadiz Gun Works website, they will replace your "wipes and baffles" for $25 when you return the unit to them. A high price for an oil filter, but cheaper than a lot of cans if you don't use it a lot and like the idea.

SharpsDressedMan
January 24, 2013, 06:11 PM
If you Form 1 the adapter yourself, aren't YOU the manufacturer? If so, that would make YOU the one that can change it out..............

MasterSergeantA
January 24, 2013, 06:56 PM
Actually since ATF considers silencer baffles and wipes and can body parts to be ALSO silencers- in that you can't own them without separate registration- if you do purchase the adapter, wouldn't any spare oil filters in your garage wind up being also unregistered silencers? So let's say you ran an instant oil change place, you'd have about 3,000 different NFA felony charges at 10 years and $10,000 each?
Actually, it is 10 years and $250,000 each.

rjrivero
January 24, 2013, 07:23 PM
I agree however atf has ruled that keeping spare wipes, baffles or fiberglass batts was a no-no. So possession of rubber gaaskets- when those gaskets are spare parts for a silencer you already own- is illegal. But without the silencer they are just rubber circles. Same token- ownership of oil filters means nothing BUT ownership of oil filters with the barrel adapter would be illegal.
I understand your point(s). Private owners replacing wipes is actually okay, per the ATF, however baffles and tubes are NOT okay. I didn't say the ATF made sense, I can only tell you my understanding of their convoluted rules. http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter66.txt
and no you do not need a license to change the filter. Like said the registered part is the thread adaptor My understanding is that this is NOT TRUE. See letter linked above. Please provide a citation for this opinion.
Not saying your wrong but could you point me to where is says you have to be an 07 FFL to change the filter. This is an ATF opinion letter that addresses the Oil Filter Change issue.
http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg

SharpsDressedMan If you Form 1 the adapter yourself, aren't YOU the manufacturer? If so, that would make YOU the one that can change it out..............
A form 1 allows you ONE SILENCER. If you change it, you must submit another form 1. That's another $200 and 6 month wait to change the oil filter if you aren't an 07 MFG. See the first letter linked above.


PLEASE UNDERSTAND: I am not a lawyer. I am a hard core enthusiast. All of this information is available to you with citations and links to ATF letters. I urge you to do the research yourself and contact a lawyer if you have any questions regarding this nuanced information.

blkbrd666
January 24, 2013, 08:09 PM
If or when you need to change the filter out, the ATF/NFA rules says it needs to come back to the original manufacture, which Cadiz Gun Works is. The cost is $25.00. The complete Econo-Can Suppressor can be shipped directly to us, for gunsmithing, which would be replacement/rehab/repair of the oil filter, with the serial # remarked, and documented as being replaced/rehabbed/repaired. The completed Econo Can Suppressor can be sent back to you at your address on your NFA Tax Stamp Form. You do not need to go though a dealer for gunsmithing services. The life of the oil filter varies depending on caliber used and bullet type. (ex. AR15=300-500 rds)

From their website.

bhhacker
January 24, 2013, 08:32 PM
I wonder how many shots youd get with effective silencing before replacing. Any ideas?

evan price
January 25, 2013, 07:26 AM
It looks like I'm out of date on the wipes- you can replace those consumables yourself, like rewetting- however ATF says you can't make new wipes without destroying the old wipes first...and copper chore boy pads are not exempt, so possession of chore-boy and a can that the chore-boy fits into at the same time requires another tax stamp for the 'spare parts' for the can. There's a November, 2010 letter to that effect.

If ATF can consider possession of chore-boy an unregistered silencer, then I would think they'd have no problem whatsoever jacking you up on possession of the adapter and some spare oil filters. This *is* the ATF we're talking about here...

SharpsDressedMan
January 25, 2013, 08:58 AM
Well, that is just how stupid the law is allowed to be. If you only have one adapter, you can never have more than one suppressor that works as such at a time. Oh, that would be confusing LOGIC with the law.......what was I thinking?

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