Is 40 S&W the red-headed step child?


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TanklessPro
January 24, 2013, 09:18 PM
I have been recently hitting up the more mainstream areas(big box stores) and have noticed that ammo is mostly gone. 223,9,45 are have become an endangered. If any ammo is available, it's 40. I shoot a lot of 40 and one store today had 100's of boxes of fmj.
I know 9 and 45 are popular but I didn't think it was that big of a gap.
Am I the only 40 shooter out there? Why is it seem to be the only ammo available in large quantities?

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SiteManager
January 24, 2013, 09:22 PM
You are not the only one. I have the other 2...

VA27
January 24, 2013, 09:23 PM
Probably because the cops are mostly the biggest user of 40 cal. Non-uniformed citizens and cops who get to pick what they carry use .357, 9mm and 45ACP.

DMK
January 24, 2013, 09:23 PM
I have been recently hitting up the more mainstream areas(big box stores) and have noticed that ammo is mostly gone. 223,9,45 are have become an endangered. If any ammo is available, it's 40.

I've heard that comment from a couple people. 9mm and 223 are obvious, but you'd think more folks shoot .40.

I own two 40sw guns. I like them a lot, but actually shoot 38 special the most, as far as handgun calibers go.

Narwhal
January 24, 2013, 09:27 PM
.40 is all I shoot in semi autos. I have 7 pistols in the caliber. It's great still being able to find lots of ammo right now, one of the caliber's many advantages :-)

Teachu2
January 24, 2013, 09:43 PM
Is 40 S&W the red-headed step child?

Yes, but it's OK to love 'em same as the rest!

FitGunner
January 24, 2013, 09:47 PM
I have mainly seen .40 and .45 acp on the shelves lately.

beatledog7
January 24, 2013, 09:49 PM
I'm a .40S&W shooter and reloader. It's a great cartridge which I consider neither red-headed nor a step-child.

As I've always said, have a .40 in your battery, and when .45 and 9mm grow scarce, you'll be able to shoot.

firesky101
January 24, 2013, 10:22 PM
I wonder if it has something to do with all the first time gun owners from the last 5 years. Those that bought their first gun will gravitate to what they know. Everybody has heard of 9mm, then there are those who know of the 1911's so they go with .45. .40S&W may just be new enough that most non gun folks don't recognize it. It is old news to us, but maybe not to them.

sonick808
January 24, 2013, 10:29 PM
is .40 sold in higher volume than .45ACP yet ?

I'm seriously asking, I don't know....

It seems that .40 is darn near 9x19 in volume these days.

Feel free to flog me if i'm wrong....

bigfinger76
January 24, 2013, 10:55 PM
I love my .40.
Been reloading all week for it (too damn cold to shoot here).
It was my first pistol; I did much research before I bought it. Seems like a great compromise between 9mm and .45.

izhevsk
January 24, 2013, 11:03 PM
I've had no trouble finding .40 S&W around here if I bother to look. One local shop had a large stack of the Winchester 180 grain JHP, 50 rounds, black lettering white box, for $20ish. Seemed like a pretty good deal so I picked up a few boxes the other day. I'd normally buy range rounds at Walmart, but they've pretty much been cleaned out of everything since December.

EBK
January 24, 2013, 11:16 PM
I shoot .40 as well and here in my area it is sold out just like every other caliber except 12 guage. No reloading supplies to be found either.

mrvco
January 24, 2013, 11:44 PM
I love shooting my Glock 35, it definitely hits the poppers and dueling tree with more authority than 9mm. The downside is that it is a bit more expense... but I haven't broken down and bought a Glock 34 to reduce my ammo costs :) (yet)

Atbat82
January 25, 2013, 12:00 AM
I've also noticed that many (most?) of the used guns I see around are .40. Seems like a lot of .40 trade-ins.

Not sure why, but I thought I'd throw that out there.


Sent from my iPhone

BHP FAN
January 25, 2013, 12:04 AM
I like .40 Short and Wimpy. There's not as much kick as my .45, and only holds a little less than my 9mm.

Grassman
January 25, 2013, 12:12 AM
Not here, .40 hasn't been seen in months.

O C
January 25, 2013, 12:12 AM
Browning Hi Power in .40 is about as good a carry gun I could find. Double stack,15rd, controls almost like 1911 (I have 7 of those) not as bulky as a Beretta (I have 4 of those) lighter than a 1911, carry cocked and locked,easy to conceal. A lot has been said about the recoil, but it's a non starter for me. But ALWAYS carry what you shoot best, even if it's a Glock (I only have one of those).

WardenWolf
January 25, 2013, 12:35 AM
I dislike .40 because it's more prone to bullet setback than both 9mm and .45. It's a very noticeable problem with this caliber. My friend almost blew up his XD with a round that had only been chambered a couple of times. The entire shoulder of the bullet was below the end of the case neck. And the only Glock kabooms you ever hear about also involve .40 caliber pistols. I truly believe the round is fundamentally flawed and poses an unusual risk.

pacerdude
January 25, 2013, 12:37 AM
All of my defensive pistols are .40s&w. I happen to like the round.

gym
January 25, 2013, 01:09 AM
40 is a great round, it has a tendancy to recoil different than 45, I don't care for it as a range gun, but carry one for stopping power. It hits just as hard as a 45. Just makes a smaller hole to start with, the wound cahnnel may be euqal depending on ammo.
I prefer 45's but my shield has 8 rounds and it's smaller thinner tan my xds, and has a safety, for my dogs and grandkids who enjot jumping on me. I am used to Glocks. I can shoot a 9 or a 45 more accuratelly than a 40, but at distances under 50 feet it doesn't present a problem.
I shoot 9 the cleanest, but unless I have an open shot I am not dropping a guy with 1 or even 2 rounds. I am lazy and 2 rounds of 40 or 45 will usually do the job, if i hit a chest, or spine, shot.
Each to their own, it can go on all day, but just ask yourself which you would care to be shot with.
Handguns are feeble unles you shoot well. Large calibers pull and small calibers require 4 rounds, pick your poison, My ratio is 3 to 1 in favor of 45's, that's after 43 years of carry.
Also 45's are freking accurate, you can underload a 45 to 185 or 200 grain and stll make a big fraking hole. Two rounds and it's a really big hole. $0 is almost as good if you practice with it. 9 is surgical if you are a shooter. Get a glock 34 0r 35 0r 17llong slide in 9 and you have a 9mm with velocity of a carbine. It's just a big ass gun.
Almost like shooting a 22.

WALKERs210
January 25, 2013, 01:16 AM
I liked my XD 40 so much I had to have a seocnd one. Ordering 40aS&W from cheaper than dirt was fast and easy. On the way into Bham yesterday we stopped at a junk store, guy there had 20-25 boxess of 22lr lead nose bullets and right in middle were three boxes of S&W 40 critical Defense ammo. Paid less for the three boxes that he had than special ammo I ordered from CTD. Still seems the S&W 40 is available might be slightly higher but its there.

InkEd
January 25, 2013, 01:24 AM
It's less popular bit still selling out. I almost bought a .40 pistol a few weeks back but scored some 9mm and 7.62x39mm ammo.

bigfinger76
January 25, 2013, 03:18 AM
I dislike .40 because it's more prone to bullet setback than both 9mm and .45. It's a very noticeable problem with this caliber. My friend almost blew up his XD with a round that had only been chambered a couple of times. The entire shoulder of the bullet was below the end of the case neck. And the only Glock kabooms you ever hear about also involve .40 caliber pistols. I truly believe the round is fundamentally flawed and poses an unusual risk.
Exactly how is the .40 more prone to setback? News to me!

Skribs
January 25, 2013, 03:34 AM
I started out on .40, mainly because I couldn't decide between .45 and 9. I've decided now that as long as capacity isn't limited by law, I'm going to go for the highest capacity I can get in a standard magazine, and if it is limited I'm going to go for the biggest rounds I can fit 10 into the gun with.

I am surprised .45 is low right now, I'd have thought the smaller the round, the more likely people would buy it in bulk right now.

radiotom
January 25, 2013, 06:09 AM
There's lots of overpriced 40 around here, but it's okay I have lots in my stash. And yes....40 to carry, 180 grain Federal HST to be specific. Nothing wrong with 9mm or 45, just seems like 40 is the best of both worlds.

Aaron1100us
January 25, 2013, 07:12 AM
No .40 anywhere around here, all sold out.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

dragon813gt
January 25, 2013, 07:26 AM
More 40s in the used case than any other cartridge. And it's been that way for years. I don't have a problem finding ammo so I can't comment in that. It's slim picking but you can get every cartridge. Tue 40s popularity has been decreasing for years in my area. It was the "got to have it" and now it's the "why did I buy this" pistol.


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Uncle Richard
January 25, 2013, 07:53 AM
I shot IDPA matches, and most guys use 9mm. The 9mm has a faster recovery time for a follow up shot due to less recoil than the 40sw. I admit that I would be a little more accurate and faster than my friends if I used a 9mm. Also, the 9mm is cheaper to shot, usually 3-4cents / round due to difference in bullet cost.

Also, I read an article comparing the expansion of hollow point bullets (self-defense ammo) for 9mm, 40sw, and 45. The 40sw had the same amount of expansion as the 45; however, the 45 will have more knock-down-power.

40's are great, all I shoot.

ku4hx
January 25, 2013, 12:03 PM
Not for me. Currently I have one Smith and three Glocks in 40. Lately wife and I have been concentrating more on 9mm since she just bought Ruger's SR9 and SR9c. But her last purchase was an SR40.

That's puts us back into 40 cal more and likely we'll get back to 300-500 40 cal rounds per month. The 40 is one of those cartridges I find easy to load and fun to shoot. Not the dream hand loader's round like the 10mm but it comes close.

No such thing as sold out ammunition at my our house.

mljdeckard
January 25, 2013, 12:12 PM
I ran out of reasons to use .40. I shoot 1911s in .45 better. With modern bonded bullets, 9mm is virtually identical in real-world effectiveness. Higher capacity, lower recoil.

RBid
January 25, 2013, 01:14 PM
I recently picked up my first .40. My round of choice is 9mm. When the rush hit, .40 was all I could find. A second consideration is FMJ. Specifically, if things ever arrived at a point where JHP were not available, I would prefer to use a .40 or .45 for defense. Third reason: practicing with .40 makes 9mm follow up shots feel like cheating.

I have a lot of enthusiasm for the round, and for my G23, but it's still not my go-to.

ku4hx
January 25, 2013, 03:59 PM
Exactly how is the .40 more prone to setback? News to me!
It's not. If properly loaded, and the loader (commercial or individual) pays proper attention to details such as neck diameter and neck tension, setback in the 40 is no more likely than with any other friction fit, taper crimp round.

g_one
January 25, 2013, 04:04 PM
People who see the .40 S&W as useless or "a solution in search of a problem" are the people who seem to think that there is an answer to the "which is best?" question. The fact is, each caliber has its own merits - the 9mm is this and this but it doesn't do that, the .45 has this and that going for it but it doesn't have this.

While I wouldn't consider myself to be a 'glock fanboy', I think the .40 S&W really shines in a glock. Something about the design of the gun makes that snappiness perfect for lining up followup shots. My CCW is 9mm but in retrospect I would have preferred .40 for two reasons - one, because it's more fun to shoot and two, because then I could have bought a subcompact in .40, and a 1911 in .40, and I would never need to buy another handgun.

Having said that, if money wasn't an issue (it is), I would go with the 10mm and just create different handloads for the different purposes I wanted to do with it.

Arbo
January 25, 2013, 04:48 PM
I shoot 40. Never had a problem with it. I know some come down on it, sometimes with the most ridiculous stuff... but it shoots good... it will stop a bad guy just as well as a 45.. and for me, it was a matter of being able to buy the ammo for less than 45, and it's never hard to find..

The only 'bad' thing, which isn't specific to 40, is I bought a lot of reloaded 40 before I bought my glock, then was told by a friend back east to NOT use reloaded stuff in the glock. So eventually I'll need to pick up another 40 semi auto to shoot as well. ;)

g_one
January 25, 2013, 05:02 PM
...was told by a friend back east to NOT use reloaded stuff in the glock.

Did he give a reason? I'm not a firearms expert but unless you're using unjacketed lead I can't think of a single reason not to use reloads in a glock

santanzchild
January 25, 2013, 05:07 PM
Glocks do not have a fully supported chamber. .40 has a bad habit of booming in them due to that fact.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727

fxstchewy
January 25, 2013, 05:12 PM
I have been recently hitting up the more mainstream areas(big box stores) and have noticed that ammo is mostly gone. 223,9,45 are have become an endangered. If any ammo is available, it's 40. I shoot a lot of 40 and one store today had 100's of boxes of fmj.
I know 9 and 45 are popular but I didn't think it was that big of a gap.
Am I the only 40 shooter out there? Why is it seem to be the only ammo available in large quantities?

Be quiet! don't say anything about it you are going to screw it up...:cuss: just kidding. :D

Arbo
January 25, 2013, 05:14 PM
Because the glock barrel leaves more of the case unsupported, weak brass and/or an overload can rupture the brass near the back side of the round..

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

I know some disagree with all this stuff though.

Fiv3r
January 25, 2013, 05:39 PM
I've thought about picking up a .40 due to the ammo drought right now. I was poking around Rural King today buying some archery stuff, and the only thing in the case was about nine boxes of .40, 10 boxes of .380, and a box of 30-30. Walmart is completely out.

I've decided I'll just save my money and wait it out. I'll shoot Holy Black or sling some arrows while the hysteria winds down. For me, 9mm is just about perfect. I can shoot it well, it's cheaper to practice with, it has the most variety of bullet types out there when the public isn't going crazy. My Glock 26 is my favorite carry pistol.

That said, I'm pretty much "out" of 9mm only having 2 or 3 practice boxes left and two mags of quality jhp loaded for bear with a third regulated to fmj. My 1911 is chilling cocked and locked in my safe with my last 8 reliable rounds loaded:uhoh: I went shooting a couple of days before Sandy Hook and never restocked my .45 as I was burning up the Tula .45 ammo that my Regent gags on.

If I had a .40, I'd be glad for it right now. But, like I said, I'll just shoot .454 hog legs loaded with the black stuff and work on my archery:evil:

mgmorden
January 25, 2013, 05:41 PM
Glocks do not have a fully supported chamber. .40 has a bad habit of booming in them due to that fact.

Rubbish. Unsupported chambers bulge the brass a bit making reloading a bit more of a headache, but they're not kabooming due to it. Reality is that some people screw up reloads. ANY gun - support chamber or no - will blow up if you try to shoot a double-charged case or other goofed load through it.

You don't want to shoot cast-bullets through a factory Glock barrel (be it reload or factory ammo) unless you know what to expect and follow a strict cleaning regime, but other than that its fine. The vast majority of Glock shooters that I know (including myself) reload for their Glocks.

LightningMan
January 25, 2013, 08:42 PM
I have three .40 cal. handguns, also have two 9mm pistols, three .380's & two .45's. I carry a M&Pc in a .40 S&W, with a Kahr P380 as a backup pocket gun. I too like the .40 caliber platform, but like my other calibers too. BTW I reload for them all, and have never had a problem with bullet setback with the .40 S&W. Also have never had problems with 9mm or the .380, but the .45 acp has given me issues, which I have resolved lately. As for available ammo around here, it seems .40 S&W and .45 acp are still found at my LGS. LM

Sauer Grapes
January 25, 2013, 09:03 PM
I got news for ya, around here, there's no .40 ammo to be had at Wally World and the LGS are running low.
I love the .40 for reloading. I have 3 40's and I'm thinking about getting another one.
I think your right, the .40 S&W isn't something a ''novice'' gun owner considers when buying their first handgun or even the 2nd. I had 6 handguns before I ever bought a .40.

420Stainless
January 25, 2013, 10:52 PM
I'm a .40 fan, both the S&W and 10mm. It seems like most folks want to keep comparing it to the .45 (not as much frontal area) or the 9mm (not as much carry capacity and more expensive to shoot) and they either stake one of those attributes or the other as the holy grail. I happen to think of it as a good combination of those assets, but it seems most see it as a compromise of one thing or another. I'm a bigger fan of the .45, but I like the .40 just fine.

roachcore
January 25, 2013, 11:40 PM
Here in KCMO I haven't been able to find 40 s&w since the election.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

ku4hx
January 25, 2013, 11:56 PM
Rubbish. Unsupported chambers bulge the brass a bit making reloading a bit more of a headache, but they're not kabooming due to it. Reality is that some people screw up reloads. ANY gun - support chamber or no - will blow up if you try to shoot a double-charged case or other goofed load through it.

You don't want to shoot cast-bullets through a factory Glock barrel (be it reload or factory ammo) unless you know what to expect and follow a strict cleaning regime, but other than that its fine. The vast majority of Glock shooters that I know (including myself) reload for their Glocks.
+1 Very well said.

Onkyo
January 26, 2013, 12:02 AM
I have to add this to the conversation. 40 S&W do have souls. (Had to watch the youtube videos in order to get this )

Anyways in my area its the samething I cant find anything except 40 and 22. Big box stores and local.

hak
January 26, 2013, 12:48 AM
"Because the glock barrel leaves more of the case unsupported, weak brass and/or an overload can rupture the brass near the back side of the round..

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

I know some disagree with all this stuff though."

It's not about "disagreeing" it's about old data. they changed the chamber design. (old on right)

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/dantevirgil/g27newoldbarrelsfp3.jpg

you can see the one on the left leaves less uncovered. so maybe if you said "the older Glock 40 cal barrels left more of the case unsuported..."

but it's more than that. it's people putting too much pressure in handloads (too much powder or setback)

look how 'unsupported' a glock in 45 is?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/tharmsen/Forums/guns/Glock/45acp-unsup.jpg

I own two .40 cal pistols, both H&K's and they're fantastic, a great round.

wow6599
January 26, 2013, 10:14 AM
If 40sw is good enough for the FBI, it's good enough for me.

The .40 S&W is only good enough for the FBI because the 10mm was too hard on some of their agents (Miss Nancy?). And some of the early pistols couldn't hold up to the stress.

So, we shorten the outstanding 10mm cartridge and the .40 S&W is born.....

It's no longer in my stable, but to each his own.

Tcruse
January 26, 2013, 10:26 AM
is .40 sold in higher volume than .45ACP yet ?

I'm seriously asking, I don't know....

It seems that .40 is darn near 9x19 in volume these days.

Feel free to flog me if i'm wrong....
Are you basing that on some publication or knowledgeable source? I would like to know of such a source, mainly to settle other discussions. Based on range brass pickup activities, it appear that 9mm is 75%, .45 ACP 20% and then all other (40, 357sig, 5.7,10). Of course this is based on one range and not a good sampling from other areas.

greenlion
January 26, 2013, 10:33 AM
I think most of the civilian dislike of the .40S&W comes from the recoil characteristic. The pressure limit for the 40 was set the same as 9mm (35,000psi). I don't think the inventors were thinking about the recoil characteristics of a larger round loaded to the full pressure limit at the time. If you load the round the way it was first envisioned, a 180gr bullet traveling at 980fps it is a pussycat and does not have the snappy characteristic so many complain of.

Imagine that the .45acp had the same 35,000psi pressure limit, and almost every bullet manufacturer tried to push it near its limit to be able to print a few extra feet per second on the side of their box. No one would shoot .45acp either. It would have recoil approaching a 44 magnum.

Its a marketing problem though. If buyers see one box of 165gr .40S&W with 1000fps printed on the side, and another with 1150fps printed on the side, most of them will buy the box advertising higher velocity.... and then spend the rest of their range visit complaining about how snappy the .40S&W is...

Oh well... Glad I handload... I love my .40.

leeggen
February 3, 2013, 10:13 PM
as per Hdy. balistics chart:

40 S&W 155 gr. XTP 1180f/s 479F# at muzzle

45acp 230gr.HAP 900f/s 369 f# at muzzle

45 auto 185 gr XTP 970f/s 333 F# at muzzle

bad guy hit by any of the above = big hole and off his feet

Buck13
February 3, 2013, 10:21 PM
People bounce .40 cases off me at the range plenty often. Even if it's the third most popular centerfire semi-auto, that's still pretty popular.

I had to have a 10 mm auto, because I like not being able to find ammo at the best of times. :) There's your stepchild.

Trad Archer
February 3, 2013, 10:46 PM
40 S&W fan here. Don't know why there is so much hate towards that caliber as well as the 327 Federal Magnum.

Dentite
February 4, 2013, 05:10 PM
Browning Hi Power in .40 is about as good a carry gun I could find. Double stack,15rd, controls almost like 1911 (I have 7 of those) not as bulky as a Beretta (I have 4 of those) lighter than a 1911, carry cocked and locked,easy to conceal. A lot has been said about the recoil, but it's a non starter for me. But ALWAYS carry what you shoot best, even if it's a Glock (I only have one of those).

15 rounds? What magazine are you using? I have a BHP in .40 and the factory mags are 10 rounds. If you do have a 15 round mag how far does it stick out the bottom of the frame?

willypete
February 5, 2013, 12:18 PM
.40 can be more prone to bullet setback than 9x19 or .45ACP if it's using a redesigned 9mm frame. The feed ramps have to be set at a greater angle than for the same gun in 9mm, resulting in greater force on the bullet while entering the chamber.

You will note I didn't say is; rather can.

The easiest way to avoid bullet setback is to only chamber a round once.

A more practical way to avoid the potential damaging effects of bullet setback is to inspect every round prior to re-chambering it.

I used to own a Glock 27 and I reloaded cast lead bullets in the stock barrel. Never had a leading problem. I also downloaded the loads a bit. 175 gr truncated cone at 800 fps. Appropriate bullet hardness and velocity for loads used turns out to be a working combination. Not my favorite gun or cartridge, so I sold it.

The current availability of .40S&W and .357 Sig is making me rethink my choice a little bit, but not much since I reload and cast my own bullets.

Browning
February 5, 2013, 12:33 PM
.40 S&W doesn't seem quite as popular as 9mm or .45 ACP and I've noticed that there's still quite a bit of ammo for it.

In my head I started thinking about who I know that shoots a .40 S&W and I could only think of two guys and in each case they own one apiece. This is out of about 20 shooters. One is a Glock 23 bought be a relatively new shooter and the other is a Taurus 24/7 that my best friend got used. He got it for $175 and it works fine.

Everyone else I know shoots 9mm, .45 ACP, .357 Mag, .38 Special or even .44 Mag. Most just go to 9mm because of ammo costs out of default and if they're worried about 'stopping power' they go to the .45 ACP.

.40 S&W was a compromise solution during the 80's before the crop of modern HP's. It was a good solution at the time, but I don't think it occupies an ultra-important niche. Just my opinion though.

I was actually thinking of getting one just because I notice ammo is always available for it.

Aaron1100us
February 5, 2013, 01:01 PM
I love the .40. I'm more accurate with that than 357 SIG. Maybe because I've been shooting .40 for the past 13 years. .40 is no where to be found anywhere around here, even all three walmarts are out.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

Fishslayer
February 6, 2013, 01:28 AM
I am surprised .45 is low right now, I'd have thought the smaller the round, the more likely people would buy it in bulk right now.

During the last Great Ammo Drought .45 was hard to come by. I actually started reloading in February of '09. Glad I did.

There are plenty of people with the $$$ to snap up every box of .45ACP they come across and right now they are doing it.

I decided not to mess around with the 10mm Kurz for a few reasons.
It's a very unforgiving round. As has been mentioned, most KB we hear about involve the 10mm Kurz with a good many mentions of Titegroup and Glocks.

It has a rep as having a snappy, unpleasant recoil. I've watched people shooting it. Looks nasty.

We are limited to 10 rounds in Kalifornistan.

I just prefer the .45. ;)

Was in my lacal Walmart a couple days ago. Only pistol ammo (besides $1/rd defensive stuff) on the shelf was .40.

Voyager
February 6, 2013, 02:20 AM
Browning Hi Power in .40 is about as good a carry gun I could find. Double stack,15rd, controls almost like 1911 (I have 7 of those) not as bulky as a Beretta (I have 4 of those) lighter than a 1911, carry cocked and locked,easy to conceal. A lot has been said about the recoil, but it's a non starter for me. But ALWAYS carry what you shoot best, even if it's a Glock (I only have one of those).

About as poor a choice as one could arrive at, the BHP is a 9mm, its never translated well to the .40 S&W. Too much for the frame, much as the Beretta 96, they feel good, but they wear out well ahead of the competition.

Beautiful pistols, but not in the .40 caliber variants.

ku4hx
February 6, 2013, 10:29 AM
as per Hdy. balistics chart:

40 S&W 155 gr. XTP 1180f/s 479F# at muzzle

45acp 230gr.HAP 900f/s 369 f# at muzzle

45 auto 185 gr XTP 970f/s 333 F# at muzzle

bad guy hit by any of the above = big hole and off his feet
(Emphasis mine)

Not necessarily so. The "one shot stop" is pretty much a gun rag fantasy. There are stories galore of good and bad guys taking multiple hits and fighting on. One well know case is the 1986 FBI Miami shootout.

If what you say were the rule, people would have little interest in semi auto pistols, high capacity magazines and training drills that foster faster followup shots.

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