Advantages and limitations of 7mmx57 round?


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el Godfather
January 25, 2013, 03:30 AM
Dear THR:
I would like to call in the expertise of those experienced shooters of THR Rifle section who have hands on extensive knowledge on 7mm mauser. I would like to know what are the advantages of this round and what are its limitations. I know that it is perhaps the cartridges that took out most elephants in Africa. Today, it doesnt qualify to hunt the big 5. Why?

How is this round in HD?

What are the maximum ranges you can push this round to?

I have personally found it to be very smooth and effective, but have not hunt anything big with it. Very effective on rushing wild boars.

Opinions appreciated.
Thank you

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lefteyedom
January 25, 2013, 04:39 AM
The 7X57 or 275 Rigby cartridge will meet almost any hunter needs.

The only "down fall" is that it will not fit in a short action rifle. Then "people" say if you have long action you should have a 270, 280 or a 30/06. The fact that it requires a long action does not take any from the 7X57 performance.

139gr bullet at 2800 will meet any normal North American hunting short of Big Bears.

Powerglide
January 25, 2013, 05:48 AM
said. I have loved 7mm since I was a kid and use them regularly. Rolling block Rems are out there but don't need a hot diet of 7mm Mauser.

cal30_sniper
January 25, 2013, 08:53 AM
Definitely my favorite cartridge and rifles to shoot and hunt with. I've got 3: 2 Model 95 Chilean Mauser Sporters in regular 7x57, and a Model 1909 Peruvian Sporter in 7x57 Ackley Improved. I haven't started loading for the Ackley yet, but I've been hunting with one of the Chilenos for quite a while now.

Power vs Recoil, a 7x57 shot out of a 24" barreled rifle has to be one of the best combinations out there. Regular 140 grn loads don't kick hardly at all, and it will do pretty much anything a .270 can. This makes for a very good rifle for a youth, woman, or small framed person such as myself. I'll shoot belted mags if I have to, but I've never liked the way they knock my 135lbs around, especially shooting offhand. The 7mm bullets are usually very aerodynamically efficient and have good sectional densities.

In my experience, for ranges less than 300 yds, it's the best whitetail deer cartridge out there. Everytime I have used it, it killed quickly and cleanly, without the excess damage to the meat you often see from '06 and .270 velocities. They are reportedly very effective on Elk and Moose as well, but I've never used them on such. As you said, they also work very well on hogs, coyotes, bobcats, and pretty much anything else that moves and needs to be killed.

For disadvantages, ammo availability is about the only one I can think of. It's better than most of the other European rounds out there, but off the shelf ammo is still pretty pricey. Prvi Partizan and Sellier and Bellot are both imported at very reasonable prices however, and I have found both to work very well in my rifles. Brass and bullets are very easy to find, and there's still a lot of boxes of hunting ammo out there floating around used for cheap prices. Keep in mind that anything loaded in the U.S. will be at a lower pressure level. SAAMI limits the cartridge to 51,000psi, while the European rounds are capped by C.I.P. maxes of 56,500psi. The American loadings are in deference to the Remington Rolling Blocks and Small Ring Mausers that were imported in large numbers here. While the small ring isn't necessarily a weak action by design, it's gas handling capabilities are poor, and the metallurgy of the times was very primitive. With a strong M98 or modern action such as a Ruger 77, you can easily load the cartridge up in the 60,000psi range. Then it becomes more of a .280 Remington than a 7mm-08. The 7x57 AI is pretty much the equal of the .270 or .280 when loaded to these pressures. My advice if you have a small ring, enjoy it for what it is, and don't try and hot rod it. The rifle is likely over 100 years old, and possibly a combat vet. It's earned it's life of leisure killing critters.

As far as the Africa big game thing, it was much more a story of necessity than choice. Many of the early African settlers carried Mausers in 7x57. They used them from everything to hunting to dangerous game defense because that's what they had available. Much like the early blackpowder winchesters and muzzleloaders used on the American frontier, they are no longer considered an ideal hunting round due to advancements in technology and hunting ethics. However, at the time it was all they had, so they made do. There's a big difference between hunting for survival and hunting for sport. The reason they are no longer legal for DG in Africa is because countries there have set bore and energy minimum requirements. The 7x57 doesn't come close to approaching either of these at any level of loading. It's not safe for dangerous game, but it has killed it in the hands of good riflemen who had no other choice. The preferred method for killing elephants was a solid bullet shot through the brain. I say preferred, but it's pretty much the only way you're going to even phase an elephant with a 7x57.

For the American hunter that doesn't have a habit of going after big bears, it'll do anything you ever need it to do inside of 300 yards. If you're a bit of an eccentric or that guy who just likes oddball calibers, it's definitely the thing to have.

RPRNY
January 25, 2013, 11:38 AM
All the good points are well covered above. You mention HD, as in Home Defense?

The 7x57 is not a good choice for Home Defense at all. Most rifles will be longer barreled and, in any event, this is a round designed for penetration. In an HD role it is a round that will pass through an invader and your children's bedroom wall.

Float Pilot
January 25, 2013, 12:43 PM
Inherently accurate, long range, moderate recoil and enough power to get the job done.

My first center fire rifle was a 7x57mm Cavalry Carbine. I have always owned one or more 7x57mms since 1970. Back then it was fairly popular here in Alaska. ( we were all poor )
I have harvested every type of game critter here in Alaska with a 7x57mm except Bison and Muskoxen.

SaxonPig
January 25, 2013, 03:11 PM
With heavier bullet weights the 7mm has a great BC and a flat trajectory. Recoil is mild for the power output. If I could have only one CF rifle a 7x57 is something I could live with just fine.

I currently have 3 rifles in 7x57 plus a 1910 Mexican Mauser under construction in this caliber.


http://www.fototime.com/2B252A97154B18D/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E8CD1A8074154CD/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/025D37A4C5AE319/standard.jpg

morcey2
January 25, 2013, 03:35 PM
Please quit posting questions about 7x57. All it does is encourage SaxonPig to post pictures of gorgeous guns that I don't have.

7x57 is one of my favorite rounds. I only have one right now, a 1910 Mex mauser. It's a great gun and a really good all-around hunting round. 110 grain speer TNT HPs for coyotes. 139/140 grain SP or SPBT for deer/other. For anything larger (elk, moose, chevy), I use either a 30-06 or 8x57 although I don't doubt it would work fine.

Matt

RPRNY
January 25, 2013, 05:10 PM
Please quit posting questions about 7x57. All it does is encourage SaxonPig to post pictures of gorgeous guns that I don't have.


It doesn't really matter which calibre one posts about, the Pig has a vast and gorgeous array of rifles with which to taunt us! ;)

Cosmoline
January 25, 2013, 05:16 PM
Fantastic round and one I loved experimenting with. The only real issue I found was twist rate. You can find some of the old-school high sectional density thwappers around. I found some Barnes originals in 190 grain or so that were like crossbow bolts. But getting them to stabilize can be a trick. Most of the modern 7x57's are set up for a smaller bullet at higher velocity, and in this role they overlap with a lot of other cartridges in that same class such as the .280 and 7mm-08. It's only when you add the heavy rounds that the 7x57 starts killing so well outside its ballistic class. That means finding a barrel with a fast enough twist. IIRC there are quite a few out there but the twists change in models over the years. So I believe some No. 1's are a standard twist and some are 1:9, but it's been years so I'm not positive.

Check out Woodleigh bullets if you're going to go after moose or elk with one. Otherwise I suppose the issue is academic.

tahoe2
January 25, 2013, 10:07 PM
I have two Spanish Mausers in 7x57, one is an 1893 long rifle in military dress and an 1895 carbine that has been sportered.
The long rifle likes 175grn round nose @ 2300 fps and the carbine likes 139-160 grn from from 2700 fps down to 2500 fps respectively.
Great round, low recoil and accurate, and very deadly on game from Yotes, Antelope, Deer, Black Bear to Elk and European Moose, Red Deer, and Stag, the list goes on and on.
AS far as the Elephant exploits; you're talking a rare talent and gifted shooter, except that about half as many had to be put down with a larger caliber.
But it still is a deep penetrating killer.

buttrap
January 26, 2013, 04:18 AM
Here is one to think on. I have a rem 7x57 that shoots the 139 grain hornady boat tail to 1 1/2 inch off a bench and hits to the sight settings but I size GI 06 brass to fit the over length rolling block chamber.

Boxhead
January 26, 2013, 05:36 AM
I am a big fan of the round. My son used one of our 7x57's, a Walther Sporter, in Africa on all manner of plains game with the 160 gr Accubond. My favorite is built on a Swede action, about ideal for the round.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/001.jpg

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/002.jpg

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/Swede011.jpg

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa437/boxhead61/Swede006.jpg

GooseGestapo
January 26, 2013, 06:12 AM
I'm not slighting the 7x57; however, Uncle Sam looked at the 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x54, ect. Scratched his head, and came up with the .30/06.

Anything the 7x57 can do, the '06 is just a little bit better.
"cross bow-bolt bullets"? The .308 220gr beats them all for sd at 0.331 and will stabilize in the standard 1/10" twist of your garden variety .30/06. Even a Sierra 240gr MatchKing BTHPt will stabilize, though a 1/9" is better...

Don't get me wrong. I have the owned 7x57's and currently have the 7x57's little sibling, the 7mm08. I've taken quite a few head of game with it, and for the lower 48 states, it's more than adequate.

However, Give me the .30/06 any day!!!
With newer powders and a 24" bbl, it will give 2,800fps with a 180gr bullet.... and 2,500fps with a 220's. East of 180deg and West of 0deg longitude (western hemisphere) , it's much more widely available, and essentially as avaiable in the "east" as the 7x57. There IS a reason why!

eastbank
January 26, 2013, 06:29 AM
my late fathers deer rifle a ww-1 german mauer 98 barreled in 7x57, it shot 154rn hornadys at 2500-2600 fps in to 1.5-1.75 groups at 100yds. it would do much better with other bullets,but my father like how the 154rn hornadys killed. eastbank.

Powerglide
January 26, 2013, 07:24 AM
Now that I read the first post, all day I farted around with my CZ Mauser, the $99 one . Very nice to play with and is tight bored and appears to be very short leade for a Mauser.Shot a 5 gallon can several times from 250 yards although the iron sights were a challenge. Reloads with new cases fire formed. 139 gr. spire point.I love the lack of recoil and the mid range power ability.I don't need a 30-06. Got one anyhow, lol.You know, guns, addiction.Same ole story.

SaxonPig
January 26, 2013, 08:29 AM
Boxhead- Now THAT'S a beautiful rifle. But what is that thing next to the chair?

GG- I agree the 30-'06 is a great cartridge. But I don't necessarily concur that "anything the 7x57 can do the 30-'06 does better." Seems to me the 7x57 can deliver nearly the same effectiveness at 20% less recoil. That matters to many shooters.

greenlion
January 26, 2013, 09:15 AM
The only thing I see wrong with it is that guns and ammo for the 7mm-08 are becoming much more common, and they are almost ballistic twins. Its not really a problem now, but I don't see the 7x57 becoming more popular as time goes on.

Onmilo
January 26, 2013, 10:41 AM
Advantages, Light recoil, Low muzzle blast, flat shooting, 500 meter cartridge.
Disadvantages, lack of factory ammunition, handloading tricky because so many bullets are made for 7mm Mag and act like full metal jackets when run at 7 Mauser velocities.

browningguy
January 26, 2013, 11:24 AM
I don't consider the 7mm-08 to be in the same class as the 7x57. Sure, it's ok with light for caliber bullets but that's not what I prefer. Shooting the 173 gr. bullets the 7x57 will cleanly kill anything in the lower 48, and most things north of that. But that is where it really shines, heavy bullets at modest velocity that will shoot through just about anything.

cal30_sniper
January 26, 2013, 01:31 PM
I'm not slighting the 7x57; however, Uncle Sam looked at the 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x54, ect. Scratched his head, and came up with the .30/06.

Anything the 7x57 can do, the '06 is just a little bit better.
"cross bow-bolt bullets"? The .308 220gr beats them all for sd at 0.331 and will stabilize in the standard 1/10" twist of your garden variety .30/06. Even a Sierra 240gr MatchKing BTHPt will stabilize, though a 1/9" is better...

Don't get me wrong. I have the owned 7x57's and currently have the 7x57's little sibling, the 7mm08. I've taken quite a few head of game with it, and for the lower 48 states, it's more than adequate.

However, Give me the .30/06 any day!!!
With newer powders and a 24" bbl, it will give 2,800fps with a 180gr bullet.... and 2,500fps with a 220's. East of 180deg and West of 0deg longitude (western hemisphere) , it's much more widely available, and essentially as avaiable in the "east" as the 7x57. There IS a reason why!

The .30/06 will do anything a 7x57 will do, if you like getting the crap kicked out of you to blow a hole in a deer a truck could drive through.

You have to go all the way up to a 220 grn bullet in '06 to get that kind of SD. That big lumbering shell has a MV of ~2450 fps, and a ballistic coefficient of only .300.

On the other hand, a 175 grn 7mm bullet has a sectional density of only slightly less, .310, and a ballistic coefficient of .465. It launches at the same velocity of the 220grn '06 even at the low SAAMI pressure limit of 46,000CUP. Handload it up to spec for a modern action, and you're launching a bullet with equivalent sectional density and a much higher ballistic coefficient faster with less powder and less recoil. What's not good about that?

Your statement about Uncle Sam is incomplete at best. Why did Uncle Sam chose the .30-06 instead of something like the 7x57? Because the army already had a large supply of 220 grn roundnose bullets lying around for the .30-40 Krag. Rather than adopt the smaller 7x57, they attempted to replicate it at a larger scale to fire the .30 caliber bullets already in use. Thus, the .30-03 (and later .30-06) was born. Also interesting to note what the original M1 Garand prototypes were chambered for: .276 Pederson (7x51 mm). Another cartridge developed along the lines of the 7x57. Why did the .276 not survive? They already had plenty of '06 in reserve and the changeover would have been extremely expensive. You've got to remember, government doesn't always make decisions based on what's better. They most often make decisions based on what's cheaper.

Not arguing about the widespread application of .30-06, or the ease of finding off the shelf ammo. However, for the handloader, what's on the shelves isn't really a concern. The 7x57 also gets everything done with less powder, another valid benefit for the handloader. The '06 has its place, but is also used in many places where it is overkill for the application. In many of those instances, the 7x57 is a more efficient choice to get things done.

montanaoffroader
January 26, 2013, 02:28 PM
I owned a Spanish Mauser in 7x57 until I let a buddy talk me out of it. Now I have find another one, I really liked mine. Mine was pretty badly messed up by a backyard "gunsmith", but I managed to get it shooting very well before passing it along to him.

Should have kept that one, but hindsight is 20/20. :banghead:

Float Pilot
January 26, 2013, 04:18 PM
I have used the old 7mm Norma 156 grain Oryx bullets on moose, elk, caribou, Sitka Black-tail deer, black bear, brown bear, goat and Dall Sheep. It always works....

Cosmoline
January 26, 2013, 04:47 PM
Anything the 7x57 can do, the '06 is just a little bit better.

Sure you can go up to .30'06. And you can forget about a light action and you're going to be getting more recoil and more noise.

The point of the 7x57 esp. with heavy bullets is it has a killing power out of proportion to its light weight and mild recoil. Bullets in this range tend to be the perfect balance for maximum efficiency.

Uncle Sam looked at the 7x57, 8x57, 6.5x54, ect. Scratched his head, and came up with the .30/06.

It's important to remember that Uncle Sam has never been a font of great wisdom. And in this case we're talking about a very small military force of a nation best known for its agricultural and commercial prowess, not its martial might. The US Army tended to follow the lead of larger and better equipped European armies at that time. So we got the Norwegian rifle, then upgraded to as near a copy of a Mauser as we could swing without having to pay royalties, and ended up having to pay them anyway.

Abel
January 26, 2013, 10:26 PM
Ah, but the 30-o6 is so right. In reference to the US Army in the early 1900's, it just more proof that even a blind hog will find the occasional acorn.

Robbins290
January 27, 2013, 10:46 AM
7mm Mauser for hd? Are you serious?

Trent
January 27, 2013, 11:48 AM
7x57 mauser for home defense.. I had to chuckle at this.

A round of that through the vitals will reliably put any predator or game in North America down, 2 OR 4 legged.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one.

Firing it indoors at night in self defense will be VERY detrimental to your hearing / eyesight (and anyone else in the vicinity).

cal30_sniper
January 27, 2013, 01:23 PM
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think 7x57 could be used as a home defense round just as effectively as a .308 could. There's no dedicated frangible bullets that I know of, but you could load up some of the Sierra 100grn HP Varminter bullets. I don't have experience with the 7mm ones, but I have loaded the 85grn HP .264 bullets to about 3000fps in my 6.5x55. They behave quite explosively when contacting anything solid. Fragmentation is very rapid. I shot a lot of jackrabbits with them. I once got two of them lined up in the same shot, the second about 5 yards behind the first. The bullet exploded so violently in the first rabbit that it only managed to mangle the one behind it with shrapnel. I would think that the same load would work pretty well in home defense, at least as well as any other rifle caliber round out there.

As for noise, it would be loud. Then again, so is firing a .357 Magnum revolver indoors.

Robbins290
January 27, 2013, 01:50 PM
That's true 30 cal! But so could a 50 bmg. With all the polls el godfather posts, it seems like he like to make post to rattle a few cages. No way I would consider that round for hd. Most of them are older bolt actions.

cal30_sniper
January 27, 2013, 02:09 PM
No doubt, I use a 12 Gauge for HD. All I'm saying is, that for the plethora of people out there who use .223, 7.62x39, .308, etc for home defense, the 7x57 can work just as well. Load it with light, explosive bullets. It will put a world of hurt on someone, yet it's explosive fragmentation means it won't be very good at going through walls and stuff. If you set up the gas system on an FN49 to run those bullets, you could very well have an extremely lethal home defense weapon. A little on the heavy side, but that's some serious firepower.

Mustanir
March 18, 2013, 11:08 AM
HD question is supposed to be more related to the PLATFORM rather than Caliber, lets leave 12 gauge aside (it is a different class), how much longer shots do we expect in HD situation, 15-150 yards, I don't think that anybody will disqualify 7mm Mauser for this role,,, but M-4 or any other setup in 308 is a different ballgame mostly due to platform not the caliber,, I would love to have an AR-15 in 7mm Mauser ;)

wlewisiii
March 18, 2013, 12:33 PM
I have a Mauser 93 that is ugly (bubba got to it) but still shoots wonderfully. I'm building a scout rifle on a VZ24 with a 19" barrel in 7x57 as well. As has been said, it's a delightful combination of all the factors that make up a hunting cartridge.

These days you can find many more rifles chambered for 7mm-08 which, in lighter bullets, can pretty much duplicate the 7x57 - power, recoil, etc - and do so in a short action. However for heavier bullets, I think the old Mauser chambering is still supreme and I prefer to load my 7x57 with 175 gr SP to take advantage of that.

I note that there is a SHOT Show special at the Winchester website of a M70 Featherweight in 7x57 with a 26" barrel. If I were in a place to afford that rifle and a good fixed power scope, that would be a delightful grail gun :)

Savage99
March 18, 2013, 01:01 PM
Overall the 7X57 is a favorite in print and like many cartridges is adequate for hunting some game larger than varmints.

It has no advantage over other more popular rounds.

The 7X57 is limited by a lack of available ammo in the USA and limited range.

While 7mm is good the 57mm case is not large enough to optimize trajectory, wind drift and power.

None of the 57mm cartridges are big sellers these days as they don't fit in long or short actions.

targetshooter22
March 18, 2013, 01:15 PM
I found that an easy round to load, and a relatively gentle one to shoot. That one is definitely an oldie but a goodie.

It should be noted that as an elephant gun, success was almost entirely due to shot placement, specifically brain shots.

This is the guy mostly responsible for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.D.M._Bell

I read elsewhere, but cannot site now, that he had the elephant skull dissected to see where he needed to aim from many different positions relative to the target.

rjathon
April 10, 2013, 11:27 PM
For me the main advantage of the 7x57 is the sweet old Mausers that it used to be chambered in. For a battle rifle it is far superior to the new fangled 30'06 as it recoils less and the ammo weighs less to carry. For hunting it has less recoil and with old technology bullets it was dependable with its heavy 175 gr slugs at low speed. With newer bullets that is no longer moot.

For deer, the modern 250 Savage offers plenty of range and power with even less recoil, and for elk the 280 Rem and 270 Win, when loaded with Hornady Superformance GMX, are far superior. I can't see much reason for anything more.

Lloyd Smale
April 12, 2013, 07:45 AM
first thing ill say is to boxhead. Thats a flat out gorgeous rifle. It ranks right up there in my book as one of the prettiest guns ive seen anywhere!! Then ill adress some of the others. Why is it when any question is asked about a specific caliber some guy will jump in and claim its everything a bigger caliber is. The 757 is a great caliber, what its not is a 06 or even a 270. Sure a guy can twist the mathmatics around and make any round look good by also twisting the numbers on the round hes comparing it too. Bottom line has allways been and allways will be, add more powder and more bullet and you get more power. Real life numbers an 06 will push a 150 to 3000 and a 757 WILL NOT. An o6 will push a 180 as fast as a 757 will push a smaller diameter 150. How in the #### does that make the 757 equal to an 06. I own a nice 757 and load it with 140s at a tad over 2800 fps and its death on deer out to 300 yards so why say its more then what it is. As to all the guys who jump in and claim recoil is the big seperator. Well maybe for a kid or your wife but any Man who shoots regularly (and i assume we all do or we wouldnt be frequenting shooting forums) that can accurately shoot a 757 loaded up to the level you guys are talking sure wont go home injured after shoot the same rifle in 270 or o6.

cal30_sniper
April 12, 2013, 08:23 AM
first thing ill say is to boxhead. Thats a flat out gorgeous rifle. It ranks right up there in my book as one of the prettiest guns ive seen anywhere!! Then ill adress some of the others. Why is it when any question is asked about a specific caliber some guy will jump in and claim its everything a bigger caliber is. The 757 is a great caliber, what its not is a 06 or even a 270. Sure a guy can twist the mathmatics around and make any round look good by also twisting the numbers on the round hes comparing it too. Bottom line has allways been and allways will be, add more powder and more bullet and you get more power. Real life numbers an 06 will push a 150 to 3000 and a 757 WILL NOT. An o6 will push a 180 as fast as a 757 will push a smaller diameter 150. How in the #### does that make the 757 equal to an 06. I own a nice 757 and load it with 140s at a tad over 2800 fps and its death on deer out to 300 yards so why say its more then what it is. As to all the guys who jump in and claim recoil is the big seperator. Well maybe for a kid or your wife but any Man who shoots regularly (and i assume we all do or we wouldnt be frequenting shooting forums) that can accurately shoot a 757 loaded up to the level you guys are talking sure wont go home injured after shoot the same rifle in 270 or o6.

Spend an entire day at the range shooting both out of a military rifle with a steel butt plate. Then you'll see the advantage in recoil reduction with a 7x57. Like it or not, there's a big difference in recoil between the 7x57 and .30-06. That means you can have a lot lighter rifle and still be comfortable. Quicker handling, easier to carry all day, etc, etc.

Power is not the end all be all of a hunting rifle. '06 size cases are rough on deer size game. Overkill. The 7x57 or 6.5x55 kills a lot cleaner, with a lot less fuss and hassle, than the bigger cartridges. It's more than adequate for any game that most of us will ever hunt. If you need a bigger cartridge, then get one. My next step up from a 7x57 would be along the lines of a belted magnum or a .35 Whelen/.338-06. IMO, having a 7x57 in the rack (in a modern action capable of loading to full pressure) completely negates the need for an '06 or .270. Especially the .270.

BTW, my 7x57AI will launch a 150 grn bullet to 3000 fps. That being said, in what case are you ever going to need that extra 150-200fps?

Pilot
April 12, 2013, 08:26 AM
7x57 is a great round, and as others have said it is capable of taking any big game in north America short of the larger bears. 7mm-08 essentially duplicates the 7x57 in a short action as does .260 Remington for the 6.5x55. The performance of these old Mauser rounds are still relevant, and up to modern standards, especially if you reload for them.

Geno
April 12, 2013, 10:36 AM
OP thanks for starting this thread. I have pondered the same thing since I noticed that Winchester has brought back the 7X57 in the M70 Featherweight. Thanks to the other posts too; great insights!

Link: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535109

Geno

Lj1941
April 12, 2013, 11:37 AM
The 7X57 is the 30/06 of the 7MM's. It is good OLD caliber- but the 7MM/08 will serve the same purpose in 99% of the cases in a short action and is more economical to load and shoot- same as the 30/06 verses 308 Winchester.Either one will do the job,most of the time.

Savage99
April 12, 2013, 12:01 PM
Good for you 7X57 Mauser aficionados.

When I started out in the early 1950's our rifle club would issue us all of the free 30-06 ball ammo we could use within reason.

Back then it was easy to get an old military rifle real cheap or even borrow it free. I had a Springfield and a Garand from the club. Then the DCM sold us Springfields for $10!

I never had a 7X57 nor missed one.

Later in the 60's I got a .358W for the woods up north and I felt it was optimum.

Now I am hunting in more open land and the .358 is out of place there. However a 7X57 could do it they say.

The magnums and 30-06 have more range, wind bucking ability and a flatter trajectory and are even better for me in the open.

I have a 7X57 now as an old Brno came so chambered.

RPRNY
April 13, 2013, 09:49 PM
I never understand serious "debates" about this caliber/round is better than that one unless we are talking about extremes. Virtually any round that has made it into the 21st century, when used within its reasonable limits, is completely satisfactory for 97% of shooters and their abilities. The 7x57 will do very well for the vast and overwhelming number of hunters in North America. It will also be excellent for most recreational and club competitive shooters. It's a great round. Ideal for elk? No. As good as the 30-06 for deer at distances that the vast and overwhelming number of hunters have no business taking shots at? No. A great brown bear or rhino round ? No. A great 1,000 yard precision target round? No. The ideal prairie dog round? No. An excellent mid-range caliber / round? Yes. Classic? Yes. Super fun? Yes. Enjoy.

Lloyd Smale
April 14, 2013, 08:43 AM
Spend an entire day at the range shooting both out of a military rifle with a steel butt plate. Then you'll see the advantage in recoil reduction with a 7x57. Like it or not, there's a big difference in recoil between the 7x57 and .30-06. That means you can have a lot lighter rifle and still be comfortable. Quicker handling, easier to carry all day, etc, etc.

Power is not the end all be all of a hunting rifle. '06 size cases are rough on deer size game. Overkill. The 7x57 or 6.5x55 kills a lot cleaner, with a lot less fuss and hassle, than the bigger cartridges. It's more than adequate for any game that most of us will ever hunt. If you need a bigger cartridge, then get one. My next step up from a 7x57 would be along the lines of a belted magnum or a .35 Whelen/.338-06. IMO, having a 7x57 in the rack (in a modern action capable of loading to full pressure) completely negates the need for an '06 or .270. Especially the .270.

BTW, my 7x57AI will launch a 150 grn bullet to 3000 fps. That being said, in what case are you ever going to need that extra 150-200fps?



I shoot alot of deer every year and have shot them with just about every caliber you can think of. Everything from a 223 to a 458mag. Most have been taken with guns in the middle ground. ie 243-300 mags. Ill say this. If you think a 757 or 708 kills deer as well as an 06 youve either not killed enough with both or are just predudice. You say yourself that the o6 does more damage. In my book that relates to quicker kills in more instantances then not. Id about agree with you if you were talking 200 yards but when the range gets out to 300 plus the 06 is just flat out superior. Just as a 300 mag is superior to the 06. I kind of get a charge out of posts like these when guys will talk up there favorite round by saying its everything a round thats 200 fps faster is. Even a 100 fps makes a differnce.

Does this mean the 757 is no good? Hell no. As a matter of fact i just picked up another one yesterday. A tang safety 77r. Thing is i have no intension of trying to pass it off as a 280 or 06. Im not going to load it till the primers flatten just to prove a point either. What im going to do with it is take it out and kill deer where i know the range isnt going to get any farther then 250 yards.

I also chuckle at all the posts about magnums doing more meat damage. Again i shoot a ton of deer every year. Actually a couple tons. Only differnce i really noticed deer to deer when it comes to meat damage is in shot placement. Hit them in the meat and they all damage meat. Hit them behind the shoulder and your going to loose some ribs and i dont worry about that. Ive shot 80lb deer with 300 wbys and 7stw using cup and core bullets and other then the scraps off the ribs have lost no good meat. I about have to question the marksmanship of guys who wine about meat damage. I think most of it is based on what someone else said and very few of the guys that claim they cause more meat damage have actually shot a bunch of deer with both. Some of the most messed up deer ive seen have been shot by the lowly old 3030. Hit a deer in the shoulder with a 150 corelock at 50 yards and you WILL SEE some meat damage.

Most of the posts you see where guys use low recoil and meat damage for an arguement come from guys thats idea of shooting is popping off maybe a box of shells a year in there deer rifle and killing a deer every two or three years. They dont want to put in the time to master a bigger gun so instead of admitting they cant handle it put a lable on anyone who can or say they arent as cool of a hunter because they too dont use a small gun. Sorry but i use them all. Ive shot enough deer to have a pretty good grasp on what works and how differnt calibers stack up. You can preach that smaller is better or just as good till your blue in the face but preach it to me and you might as well be preaching to the choir. As to your arguement about weight. I wieght 250 lbs and worked a real job all my life and even at 56 i think im capable of carrying 8 flipping pounds around all day. Nope i hope God comes and takes me the day i feel i no longer need an o6 in the safe

Liberty1776
April 14, 2013, 11:38 AM
as a side discussion, it would be very interesting to hear how you are able to take so many deer every year. Most of us are fortunate if we get one or two... I am not being sarcastic - the story and background (with pics, of course) would make interesting reading...

Lloyd Smale
April 14, 2013, 02:19 PM
not hiunting just shooting. I do crop damage deer shooting on a big potatoe farm here localy from the middle of july till the first of nov. Does only and I shoot between 50 and a 100 a year. before the negetive people jump in all the meat is eaten. We keep some and donate alot to the local food bank.

morcey2
April 14, 2013, 03:24 PM
not hiunting just shooting. I do crop damage deer shooting on a big potatoe farm here localy from the middle of july till the first of nov. Does only and I shoot between 50 and a 100 a year. before the negetive people jump in all the meat is eaten. We keep some and donate alot to the local food bank.

Just imagine how many you could get if you used a real round! :D I love my mexican 7x57. I've yet to get a deer with it, but it's good out to about 300 yards for insurgent paper and gongs. Really likes 120 grain Ballistic Tips. For me, it's close to a perfectly balanced round. But, then again, I have a thing for the x57 family of cartridges. I have many 8x57, both sporter and military, 7x57, a 257 Roberts that should be finished in a week or so, and a 6mm Rem in process. Now I just need to do a 9.3x57 and I'll be all set.

Matt

publiuss
April 14, 2013, 03:44 PM
Box, that is dop-dead gorgeous. One day I'm going to build one and mark it .275 Rigby. I also want to build a .280 and label it 7mm Express.

rjathon
April 15, 2013, 12:58 AM
I think that bullet construction and shot placement play a larger role than raw horsepower. With a high chest shot a high velocity 85 gr bullet will drop a deer in its tracks where a 180 gr at 2700 fps from a 30'06 will usually have them run for a short distance. Make the same shot with a 125 gr TNT from the '06 zipping along at 3200 fps and the deer will crumple with a hole that you can see through. Excessive meat damage comes when a bullet expends most of its energy in the meat...duh. If the bullet blows up in meat meat will blow up too.

A buddy went hunting with a guy who shot a small doe with a 300 Weatherby mag using a 150 gr bullet at 3500 fps. There wasn't much meat worth saving. The same shot with a 458 Win Mag would have had a better ending.

The 7x57 has a good reputation because historically hunters used a great bullet in an era fraught with bullet failures. When the 30'06 and 270 came out they were the magnums of their day. Bullet selection hadn't caught up to the new high velocity yet. Just when it finally did the next batch of magnums shooting even faster came out with yet more bullet failures until technology caught up yet again. Failures led to core locts and interlocks, then more speed and failures led to bonded cores and X bullets, etc.

The 30-30, 6.5x55, and 7x57's built their reputations on slow bullets that held together at their low velocities. Pump those same bullets out at 400 fps faster and they will often fail to perform correctly.

Today we can better match the game and velocity and bullet construction up much better than in the past due to high technology and better communication. So with all else being equal the bigger guns are better killers. It just took a while for technology to catch up. That said, dead is dead. We can now kill at long range or ridiculous range or even with light recoil, assuming that the bullet construction, velocity, game animal, and shot placement are in harmony, and Lady Luck smiles upon us.

As an aside, I once gut shot a mule deer using a JLK 108gr VLD in a 25'06 going 3400 fps. The deer was disemboweled and dropped where it stood. A hasty follow up ended its misery. A 30'06 with a strongly built 180 gr might have let that deer get away. That bullet with its light jacket, high velocity, and high BC made it the dealer of instant death as long as you stayed away from heavy bones on heavy animals.

tarosean
April 15, 2013, 01:05 PM
How is this round in HD?


:what::what::what:

I forget his name but there was a hunter around the turn of the century, that used this to bag a lot of elephant.

RPRNY
April 15, 2013, 08:01 PM
Karmamojo Bell. He mastered the brain shot. It doesn't make the .275 Rigby (as his was chambered) an elephant round though ;-)

cal30_sniper
April 16, 2013, 02:01 PM
Most of the posts you see where guys use low recoil and meat damage for an arguement come from guys thats idea of shooting is popping off maybe a box of shells a year in there deer rifle and killing a deer every two or three years. They dont want to put in the time to master a bigger gun so instead of admitting they cant handle it put a lable on anyone who can or say they arent as cool of a hunter because they too dont use a small gun. Sorry but i use them all. Ive shot enough deer to have a pretty good grasp on what works and how differnt calibers stack up. You can preach that smaller is better or just as good till your blue in the face but preach it to me and you might as well be preaching to the choir. As to your arguement about weight. I wieght 250 lbs and worked a real job all my life and even at 56 i think im capable of carrying 8 flipping pounds around all day. Nope i hope God comes and takes me the day i feel i no longer need an o6 in the safe

Kudos to you. Unfortunately, not all of us are built like Goliath. I've weighed less than 140 lbs my entire life. For a person of lighter stature, there is a very clear difference in how much you get walked around by an '06 compared to a 7x57, especially from field positions. There's also a tolerable limit to how many rounds you can fire in a range day. Many times I've fired over a hundred rounds from a 6.5x55 or 7x57 in a 6-7 lb rifle in one day. I certainly hope I never have to attempt doing that with my '06. The Garand, yes, but definitely not in a light bolt rifle. As far as strength, I've gotten a max score on nearly every military PRT, PFT, and CFT I've ever taken. I'd still much rather carry a rifle that weighs 6lbs and works just as effectively as one that weighs 8. Pounds in the arms is completely different than pounds on the back. If you're hunting from a deer stand in flat country like you, it probably doesn't make much difference either way. Lug it around all day in rough country stalk hunting and see how you feel.

Not once did I claim that the 7x57 was ballistically equal to the '06. A 140grn bullet launched from a 7x57 and a 180grn bullet launched from an '06 are going to have a trajectory that is virtually identical. In fact, due to the better BC of most 7mm bullets, the difference between the two cartridges is actually going to shrink as ranges increase, not grow.

The '06 packs more punch due to the heavier weight bullet, plain and simple. It also does more meat damage and recoils a lot more. The simple fact is, the 7x57 is more than adequate for any North American game animal except the Large Bears and perhaps Bison. If you're hunting stuff that large, you're most likely not going to be reaching for an '06 anyways. So even though the '06 is more powerful, it's not a bit more useful in 99% of hunting applications.

For deer sized game, there is a sweet spot of calibers that includes the older .257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 7x57, and their newer cousins, the .260 Rem and 7mm-08. America is and has long been a .30 caliber nation. Just because the '06 is popular does not mean that it isn't overkill for many applications. If an '06 will do it, chances are, so will a 7x57. I'd like to see the situation that an '06 is ideal for that a 7x57 won't work just as well.

Savage99
April 17, 2013, 10:34 AM
"I'd like to see the situation that an '06 is ideal for that a 7x57 won't work just as well."

I am hunting in open land now for deer. The deer are much bigger than the bucks I got up North. These are big heavy bucks.

The ranges are much longer than up North. The last two bucks were at 240 yds and 280 yards. I don't want the bucks to run when hit as not all the land is ok to hunt on.

In my view cartridges like the 243 or 7X57 will not kill a deer as fast as a bigger faster bullet. Thus I leave them home. Nor will they shoot as flat or buck the wind as well. Also my favorite woods round, the .358 is out of place there.

I hunt there with a new to me favorite, a 30-06 custom. Also I have other rifles with a battery of magnums in both pre-64 70's and SS/Syn rifles. I am limiting myself to 300 yds on deer. I have a Leica rangefinder.

http://imageshack.us/a/img23/9605/1000056r.jpg

cal30_sniper
April 17, 2013, 11:48 AM
In my view cartridges like the 243 or 7X57 will not kill a deer as fast as a bigger faster bullet. Thus I leave them home. Nor will they shoot as flat or buck the wind as well. Also my favorite woods round, the .358 is out of place there.

I hunt there with a new to me favorite, a 30-06 custom. Also I have other rifles with a battery of magnums in both pre-64 70's and SS/Syn rifles. I am limiting myself to 300 yds on deer. I have a Leica rangefinder.


The .243 and the 7x57 are in two completely different classes of cartridges. There is twice the difference in bore diameter between the .243 and 7x57 than there is between the 7x57 and the .30-06. Where the range of useful bullet weights is very similar between the 7x57 and the '06, they are completely different between the .243 and the 7x57. The fact that you consider them in the same class shows the very error of your thinking on the 7x57.

The 7mm bullets have some of the highest BC of any hunting bullets out there. In weights useful for deer, they usually have a significantly higher BC than similar .308 bullets. "Bucking the Wind" is purely a function of BC, and has nothing to do with bullet weight. The 7x57 is going to buck wind better than an '06. As I stated before, a 140grn 7x57 load and a 180grn .30-06 load are going to have just about identical muzzle velocity. In most hunting bullets, the 7mm is going to have a better BC and SD, leading to a flatter trajectory and arguably better terminal performance. In the worst case scenario, the '06 will be able to match the trajectory of the 7x57, but it won't be able to surpass it. Even with 150grn bullets in the '06, the difference in trajectories is going to be fairly negligible.

At 300 yards, you are well within the capable killing range of the 7x57. 0.02" of diameter and 10-40 grains of bullet weight is not going to make much difference, especially on deer sized game. If you're hunting something bigger, a 150-175 grain pill loaded in the 7x57 will do just as well as anything coming out of that '06. Like I said before, if its something that the 7x57 is not capable of handling, the '06 isn't going to be a good choice either. That's where the Magnums and the medium bores come into play.

I'm by no means saying the '06 is a bad cartridge. It's a great one gun ensemble for the American shooter, not the least because it has some of the most readily available ammunition of any caliber out there. What I am saying, is that the 7x57 will do anything the '06 will do. It's more expensive, harder to find, and the rifles it is chambered in are rarer, but the two cartridges themselves are in the same class. The only difference is, the '06 makes more mess and more fanfare on the buttstock end. If you like that, then fine. It's no reason to categorize people who'd rather get the same job done with a more economical package as being weak or inexperienced.

Savage99
April 17, 2013, 01:42 PM
"The 757 is a great caliber, what its not is a 06 or even a 270. Sure a guy can twist the mathmatics around and make any round look good by also twisting the numbers on the round hes comparing it too. Bottom line has allways been and allways will be, add more powder and more bullet and you get more power. Real life numbers an 06 will push a 150 to 3000 and a 757 WILL NOT. An o6 will push a 180 as fast as a 757 will push a smaller diameter 150. How in the #### does that make the 757 equal to an 06. I own a nice 757 and load it with 140s at a tad over 2800 fps and its death on deer out to 300 yards so why say its more then what it is. As to all the guys who jump in and claim recoil is the big seperator. Well maybe for a kid or your wife but any Man who shoots regularly (and i assume we all do or we wouldnt be frequenting shooting forums) that can accurately shoot a 757 loaded up to the level you guys are talking sure wont go home injured after shoot the same rifle in 270 or o6."

sixgun junky

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