[gc70]

The full text of Feinstein's AWB bill (http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=9a9270d5-ce4d-49fb-9b2f-69e69f517fb4) has been posted to her Senate website.

Note that the section on background checks for transfers of grandfathered assault weapons starts on page #119 of the PDF file, where is could easily be overlooked after the 93-page listing of exempt firearms.

The actual bill is not as vile as Feinstein has been claiming for the last month. Possession and transfers of weapons are allowed. I need to cross-reference the other laws that the background checks section cites, but it does not (after a very quick first read) appear to be NFA registration and taxation.

----------

I have posted an abbreviated version (http://www.scribd.com/doc/122658185/Proposed-2013-Assault-Weapons-Ban) of the bill to Scribd that is only 6 pages long after omitting the lists of weapons and government exceptions.

.

[Jorg]

Huh, banning semi-auto shotguns with more than a 5-round capacity is a bit of a surprise. I guess I missed that somehow.

[AlexanderA]

Here's a key distinction: while transfers of grandfathered weapons are allowed (through FFL dealers, with a background check), transfers of grandfathered feeding devices are not allowed. (At least that's the way I read it.) One of these weapons without a feeding device would be useless.

This travesty must be defeated. Nothing "reasonable" about it.

[berettaprofessor]

As near as I understand the language, there's none of that nonsense about putting semiautomatic weapons transfers under the NFA and making them subject to a $200 tax on transfer, correct?

[Steve51]

Have you seen anything in the bill that requires background checks on all ammunition purchases?

[Blakenzy]

The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’
means any of the following, regardless of country of manufacture or caliber of ammunition accepted:
[...]
‘‘(D) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of
the following:
‘‘(i) A threaded barrel.
‘‘(ii) A second pistol grip.
‘‘(iii) A barrel shroud.
‘‘(iv) The capacity to accept a detachable
magazine at some location outside of the pistol
grip.

Notice it says the "capacity to accept".. meaning that it doesn't have to have these features, just the potential to. Every semiauto handgun that doesn't have a built in magazine, or an unthreaded barrel that is part of the frame will fall under the definition of "semiautomatic assault weapon", and thus be banned.

The only pistols to escape will be broomhandle Mausers.

[IlikeSA]

Im glad this didn't pass. My Remington 870 (wood stock) and Winchester 670 were not on the list. The Remington 870 (synthetic stock) and Winchester Ranger were on the list though.

[Jorg]

Im glad this didn't pass.
Are you from the future?

[MAKster]

If you owned a pre-ban assault weapon if you sold the rifle you could not also sell them any of your pre-ban 30 round mags. You can still sell the weapon it just means the new owner has to buy 10 round mags and cannot use pre-ban 30 rounders.

[bucktails]

"Are you from the future?"
:)

[Steve H]

I'm surprised that Windham Weaponry AR's are not included in the named banned AR list also that the 10/22 is exempt.

[para.2]

You notice there are no handguns on the specifically exempted list?

I'm mildly surprised that the m1 Carbine and Garand, and SKS are specifically allowed, but other than those, the list is page after page of "manually operated" or single/double barrel weapons which aren't subject to the bans anyway.

All that list is for, is a prop so that Feinstein and her ilk can show how magnanimous they're being and that they don't really want to take our guns. After all, here's page after page that we'll allow!:fire:.

[gc70]

Every semiauto handgun that doesn't have a built in magazine, or an unthreaded barrel that is part of the frame will fall under the definition of "semiautomatic assault weapon", and thus be banned.

Check the definition on page #13 of the PDF: "The term ‘threaded barrel’ means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a device such as a firearm silencer or a flash suppressor."

I'm mildly surprised that the m1 Carbine and Garand, and SKS are specifically allowed

Divide and conquer. Those rifles do not meet the "assault weapon" definition anyway, so why wouldn't Feinstein create good will by putting them on the "good gun" list.

[Blakenzy]

Check the definition on page #13 of the PDF: "The term ‘threaded barrel’ means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a device such as a firearm silencer or a flash suppressor."

I understand what a threaded barrel is.

Re: the Bill and my previous post...I take issue with the "capacity to accept" and how it could be applied to common pistols.

From what I understand, if your pistol has the "capacity to accept" a threaded barrel among other features (I assume any Browning inspired design that can have it's barrel quickly swapped has the "capacity to accept' a threaded aftermarket bbl) it could be classified an "assault weapon" and therefore prohibited by the ban.

Glocks could be argued to have the "capacity to accept" a second pistol grip on the forward rail, and also be classified as an "AW" and banned as well.

[gc70]

Okay, Blakenzy, I now understand your point.

You are reading the text as:

that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine
AND
that has the capacity to accept any 1 of the following

as opposed to:

that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine
AND
that has any 1 of the following

[cpy911]

So according to this latest hellish bill, a Walther p-22 with
a threaded barrel and a silencerco sparrow suppressor with a $200 NFA
tax stamp would be banned? Bull $hit!

Pig is trying to slip in handguns to this bill under the guise of assault weapons

Damn congress critter.

[Zeke/PA]

Dianne Feinstein hates us all because it is the gun owners who ,time and time again, have shown, at the polling place, our power.
She is now 80 years old, and HOPEFULLY at the end of her political career this current gasp,the Sandy Hook incident a typical response.
Maybe, just maybe the'll find a place for her on the management of their Chinese Steel Mill and get her pesky Butt away from us FINALLY!

[Landis]

Page 18;

‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
2 of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
3 lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
4 the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013.

[AlexanderA]

‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession
2 of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise
3 lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment of
4 the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013.

Exactly. Notice that possession of hi-cap magazines is grandfathered, but not transfer (compare the language applying to the guns themselves, which grandfathers transfer). That means that you keep your magazines until you die, at which point they become contraband. This is problematic for Feinstein & co., because making something nontransferable reduces its economic value to zero, thereby triggering a "taking" which must be compensated under the 5th Amendment.

[bushmaster1313]

Ithaca Model 37, with its fearsome 4 round magazine and pump operated action was too scary to make the list.

I think this part is really touching:

to ensure that the right to
keep and bear arms is not unlimited

[medalguy]

Wonder what would happen if all the gun owners in America sent her a letter saying they would support her bill? Maybe she would have a heart attack and save us a lot of grief.

[Sheepdog1968]

It's a lot like what we have in CA. If you are fine with M1a and mini-14 with rifle and not pistol grip stocks you have some options. Just to be clear, I don't want this bill to pass.

[NWCP]

Let Feinstein dictate to her constituants in California. She doesn't represent me, or any other gun owner outside the People's Republic. She is a dangerous politician and Obama loves her and her unconstitutional ideas. Birds of a feather...

[Trent]

Let's see, if this passes, what would I have that's not a bolt action rifle or revolver that's still unregulated...

....
....
....

Yup, pretty short list.

Clearly I'm supporting this bill.

If it passes, can I get 90 or so "healthy and able bodied male volunteers" to help me turn in my collection? We'll just march those rifles right in to the authorities, business end first. :)

[gc70]

Blakenzy - you have suggested that the ban text should be read as:

that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine
AND
that has the capacity to accept any 1 of the following

The rebuttal to that reading would be from the list of 'approved' guns that includes the "Ruger Mini-14 (w/o folding stock)." The bill's text acknowledges that Mini-14s can accept folding stocks, but only bans Mini-14s that actually have folding stocks.

[Zoogster]

The extent of the bill is quite dramatic.

The 5 round limit on fixed magazine shotguns, and complete ban on those that accept detachable magazines (no other features required) for example is not something that would go unnoticed.
Extended magazine tube semi auto shotguns are banned.
Even those with under a 5 round capacity cannot have a tactical stock/vertical grip or become assault weapons, and those are some of the more common configurations now.


It also turns a pistol with a threaded barrel into an assault weapon.
I imagine that would have some impact on many people. That would for the most part end pistols coming threaded from the factory, and reduce how many such barrels were available.

It would also make it more difficult on those that wanted a sound suppressor and went through the NFA process where available.
Those people wanting to purchase one or a couple they can swap between a larger number of guns would have it difficult. Every pistol with a threaded barrel would be an assault weapon, and threading a barrel or adding a threaded barrel to make use of the suppressor on another firearm would constitute manufacture of an assault weapon.
The implications on the Sound Suppressor market are quite large, especially if the public can no longer purchase or manufacture new assault weapons and as a result cannot purchase new pistols with threaded barrels nor thread thier own without illegal manufacture to use thier legal NFA device.
Sound suppressors would become much less versatile and be limited to pre-ban pistols which already had threaded barrels and were considered grandfathered assault weapons.

It's a lot like what we have in CA.
No it is much worse actually. In a few ways including but not limited to:
More banned by name firearms, including many currently legal in the proper configuration.
5 round capacity limit on semi auto shotguns, in CA it is 10.

As well as the fact that things like bullet buttons, odd pistol grip modifications, etc came about through interpretations of CA law that had various precedents that legitimized them at the state level.
Bullet buttons for example legal at the state level because a fixed magazine was defined as requiring a tool to remove, and then the state government further defining a tool to mean just about anything.
This combination is what allowed bullet buttoned firearms to be considered fixed magazine firearms, as long as it takes something other than a finger it takes a tool as defined by the state government.
Definitions that do not exist at the federal level.
So whether such work arounds would even be feasible or would be specifically prohibited legislatively or ruled not to comply by a federal court and unavailable is unknown.
If unavailable the national restrictions would as a result be much more severe in reducing what firearm models are available than the CA state restrictions now.
It is a misleading assumption that such things would be deemed legal nationally, they are unique to CA law at this point.
Additionally if they were not legal work arounds nationally it could actually make those currently held firearms in CA that are not Assault Weapons at the state level Assault Weapons at the national level. So some firearms in non Assault Weapon CA configurations may still be defined as federal Assault Weapons, grandfathered for those who have them federally, and legal at the state level if they remain in the proper configuration as non-state Assault Weapons, but no longer available new in configurations that can comply with state law because federally they couldn't sell something new deemed a federal Assault Weapon even if it wasn't considered an assault weapon by CA law.

[kcgunesq]

As i read it, every Glock is an assault weapon. See p2 line18, p3, line17, and p4 line 1, as all are arguably versions of the G18. Am i missing something?

[gc70]

I will have to search for a link, but I have read that the G18 has different internal parts and a frame and slide that are not interchangeable with the G17. Furthermore, I have read that the G18 was specifically designed with differences from the G17 to avoid restrictions in countries that do not allow civilian ownership of semiautomatic variants of full-auto weapons.

[kcgunesq]

Interesting. Thanks for those good points. I certainly would have thought they shared more in common.

My quick research indicates you are right about many of the key components not interchanging. However, thy do use the same magazine, if Wikipedia is to be believed. Is magazine commonality along with similar frame materials, sharing of some internals enough to constitute a "version"? I certainly don't know. But considering that the ATF commonly defines small, non-descript, by-themself-useless pieces of metal as firearms, I wouldn't be resting easy if (a) I was a glock owner and (b) I thought this law was going to pass.

[95bravo]

I am new to this site and blogs in general, is there any way you could give or gift hi cap mags to family members or anyone else?

[95bravo]

I am new to this site and blogs in general, is there any way you could give or gift hi cap mags to family members or anyone else?

[95bravo]

She may be on her way out but there are plenty to take her place. John Kerry and the "Bradey Bunch" and who knows how many.
When Kerry was running for president they made a big deal when he purched an OH nonresident hunting permit and a migratory game bird stamp. They showed him firing a shotgun. I wondered if he was aiming at anything or just for show. I wonder if he had to ask forgivence from the other of his type.

[Sistema1927]

My Winchester 140, Remington 721, Winchester 1906, Swiss K31, and Moisin Nagant didn't make the "good" list. It appears that some staffer compiled this list using a catalog of currently available firearms.

[10/22plinker]

This would also ban the "broomhandle" mauser if I'm not mistaken. I don't know where she got the idea that banning barrel shrouds will reduce violence. What it will do however, is leave gun owners with burnt hands.

[Spats McGee]

. . . . I don't know where she got the idea that banning barrel shrouds will reduce violence. What it will do however, is leave gun owners with burnt hands.
Or create a boom in demand for gloves.

[Captains1911]

I am new to this site and blogs in general, is there any way you could give or gift hi cap mags to family members or anyone else?
Not with the way it's worded. This would be very difficult to impossible to enforce though, as mags are not serial numbered. One way around this may be through the establishment of a trust....I saw no wording about them in that bill.

[RobXD9]

I thought I'd heard, maybe it was Schumer, say at one point in the last day or so, that the grand father clause would include an exception for immediate family members.

I just got done reading this entire monstrosity and didn't see anything of the sort.

The only exception I saw was for essentially sharing a gun at the shooting range.

Did anyone else notice that? I certainly don't expect my son to have to go through an FFL transfer when I keel over and he takes possession of my collection.

[Hacker15E]

This would also ban the "broomhandle" mauser if I'm not mistaken. I don't know where she got the idea that banning barrel shrouds will reduce violence. What it will do however, is leave gun owners with burnt hands.

Most of the barrel shroud stuff always seemed to me to be based on the TEC-9 and how evil it was considered in the 90s.

[gc70]

I thought I'd heard, maybe it was Schumer, say at one point in the last day or so, that the grand father clause would include an exception for immediate family members.

There is no family exception in Feinstein's bill. Schumer's bill (S.436 (www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s436is/pdf/BILLS-112s436is.pdf#page=24)) from the prior session of Congress included an exception for family members and the background check section of Schumer's prior bill is incorporated in Rep. Moran's bill (H.R.137 (www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr137ih/pdf/BILLS-113hr137ih.pdf#page=17)) in the current session of Congress. Schumer is smart enough to know that a family exception will persuade most gun owners that universal background checks are okay.

[Welding Rod]

A more extreme bill could work in our favor.

Many gun owners are apathetic when we are nickel and dimed.... this worries me much more than a proposed bill that would for example implement a confiscation program.

[gc70]

Feinstein's bill reflects serious overreach and even her actual bill was dialed back from her initial summary of its contents. Part of the danger in Feinstein's bill is that it makes other proposals that we would otherwise reject look reasonable by comparison. The anti-gunners want us to gratefully 'compromise' on something less than the most draconian restrictions possible.

[RobXD9]

gc70 wrote:
There is no family exception in Feinstein's bill. Schumer's bill (S.436) from the prior session of Congress included an exception for family members and the background check section of Schumer's prior bill is incorporated in Rep. Moran's bill (H.R.137) in the current session of Congress. Schumer is smart enough to know that a family exception will persuade most gun owners that universal background checks are okay.

Thank you.

[Auto426]

Damn, now I'm going to have to get rid of all of my semi-auto shotgun rocket launchers? This goes too far... :rolleyes: