School me on 'Anciens Etablissements'


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thecarfarmer
January 26, 2013, 02:39 AM
Well, like the title said... looking for some schooling on Anciens Etablissements.

I keep seeing the name while doing searches on Gunbroker for 6.35mm pistols; so I read the paragraph that Wikpedia shows on 'em - am hungry to hear more.

Anybody ever own one? shoot one? know anything about the company?

TIA!

-Bill

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Jim K
January 28, 2013, 10:23 PM
Anciens Etablissements who? "Anciens Etablissements" just means Company. The best known in the gun community may be Pieper, but many French and especially Belgian companies use that term.

Jim

Radagast
January 29, 2013, 08:44 AM
http://littlegun.be/ is a great source for Belgium made revolvers.

tipoc
January 29, 2013, 12:34 PM
Are you asking about the old Belgium firm of Pieper?

Anciens Etablissements Pieper is a Belgian arms manufacturer established under the name Henri Pieper in Herstal, Belgium in 1884 (some sources use 1866), by Henri Pieper. In 1898, it was renamed to Nicolas Pieper, and it became the Anciens Etablissements Pieper in 1905. It stayed in business until approximately 1950. The company used the Bayard trade name and manufactured Bergmann-Bayard pistol and Bayard 1908 pistol.

This outfit?

tipoc

cluck
January 29, 2013, 12:43 PM
http://littlegun.be/ is a great source for Belgium made revolvers.
+1 on this site! I did some research on a friends Webley bulldog knock off. Very informative. I loved the little trip in time checking proofs and makers marks. I wasn't initially aware that Belgium had SO MANY firearms manufacturers at one point.

Jim K
January 29, 2013, 09:40 PM
First let me make clear that I am not an expert on French/Belgian legal terms. The term "ancien etablissement" literally means "old establishment" or "old company". I understand it is equivalent to the British "successors" and is used when the founder of a company (e.g., Pieper) dies with no direct heirs but a new company purchases the old one and also the rights to the name.

If I am wrong, I would appreciate someone with certain knowledge correcting me.

Jim

chriske
January 30, 2013, 10:41 AM
Well, Jim K, methinks you got it right.

Pieper, of "Bayard" fame, is what came to my mind as well.

Semantically, the French "ancien établissement" and/or "anciens établissements" could be translated as "erstwhile company" or "company formerly known as"

And yes, if you go end of the 19th century up to & including interbellum years (1918-1940), there are hundreds of Belgian gun manufacturers, from excellent (Pieper, Nagant, Francotte, etc..) down to disreputable...

This, just like most things about my country, can get confusing sometimes.

thecarfarmer
February 24, 2013, 09:42 AM
Anciens Etablissements who?

Anciens Etablissements Gunbroker!

Okay, bad joke... but it's just that I'd seen a number of guns advertised there using that phrase. I kinda' figured it was some kind of consortium or something...

-Bill

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